Finding Word Counts and RenLearn/Accelerated Reader Website

sissybaby

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I'm tired of checking through posts, but I need some questions answered about early chapter books.

What age are we talking about in early chapter books, and how many chapters is the norm?

I know there is going to be lots of room for variation, but just a quick rough estimate would be helpful from anyone with some experience or knowledge on the subject.

Thanks ever so.

Sissy Baby
 

alleycat

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You probably will getting a variety of opinions (I've seen even the experts give differing answers to this question). I consider early chapter books to generally be for seven to nine-year-olds.
 

MsJudy

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I think the best way to get a feel for it would be to go check out a whole bunch of books from the library, and then check Renlearn to compare reading levels. I've been using it for the past year or two to level my classroom books, and it's helping me understand what makes one book easier or harder than another. Some very short books are two or three grade levels harder than books the same length....

Here's the link in case you don't have it:
http://www.renlearn.com/store/quiz_home.asp#quicksearch
 

sissybaby

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Thank you so much alleycat and Judy - I should know this, having a seven-year-old, but I read him books that vary greatly, and since he's rather reluctant to give up his nightly bedtime story, we usually take turns reading pages. I just don't recall him reading very much yet in the way of chapter books.

I'll check out that website - I've not seen it.
 

alleycat

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This is the description of chapter books in The Business of Writing for Children by Aaron Shepard:

Chapter Book. A short illustrated novel, split into brief chapters. For grades 2 and 3. Manuscript length is forty to sixty pages.

I'm sure if I pick up another book on writing for children it will break down the categories of children's books slightly different, and may give a slightly different age group or page count. I still think you'd be fairly safe assuming an age group from between 7 and 9 for an early chapter book. Someone else might say 6, or 10, but it's still basically the same reading level; that is, past beginning reader, but not quite ready for full length books yet.
 

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Okay, I've gone to that website, and I'm not getting it. How do I use it to check grade level/etc? I'd like to do that.
 

MsJudy

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Okay, I've gone to that website, and I'm not getting it. How do I use it to check grade level/etc? I'd like to do that.

Type in the title or author you're looking for. A list will pop up, with the titles in blue. Click on the title and it will take you to a second page that gives you further information, including word count and publication dates, usually a picture of the book cover.

The reading level is roughly equivalent to grade level. So 1.0 to 1.9 are all first grade level books, 2.0-2.9 is second grade. It's pretty accurate. A second grader who tests at grade level on district and state tests will be successful with those 2.0-2.9 books, and a 2.9 really is clearly harder than a 2.1.

The leveling doesn't have anything to do with how publishers level books, however. RenLearn doesn't use the terms Chapter Books or Middle Grade. They only identify interest level: Lower grade (K-3) or Upper Grade (4th and up).
 

longoverdue

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THANK YOU JUD! I went, I tried, I loved :) This is going to be very useful for me, and I appreciate your time to explain it.
 

sissybaby

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Judy - I'm so glad this discussion went on. I tried checking out that site various times, but never could figure out how to navigate it.

So, just for lots of future reference, where, exactly, do I type in the name of a book or an author?

Computers and the internet really flummox me, so I need a walk through when I can get one.

Thanks so much.
 

MsJudy

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Judy - I'm so glad this discussion went on. I tried checking out that site various times, but never could figure out how to navigate it.

So, just for lots of future reference, where, exactly, do I type in the name of a book or an author?

Computers and the internet really flummox me, so I need a walk through when I can get one.

Thanks so much.

This is the page I have bookmarked:
http://www.renlearn.com/store/quiz_home.asp#quicksearch

Then you should see a rectangle with the word Title in it, and an empty rectangle next to it. You type the title of the book in that empty rectangle, then click Go. Or click on the little blue triangle/arrow next to Title, and it will let you select Author or ISBN instead.

Does that help?
 

Jennifer_Laughran

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That's interesting. I just poked around a bit on that site and was weirded out by the supposed "reading levels" -- one of my favorite chapter books to give to 6-7 year olds, MY FATHERS DRAGON, that has less than 8k words, they list as being reading level 4.9? The wha? Several other books that I think are very obviously chapter books for younger readers, they also listed as having leves in the 4's. So, I'd take it with a grain of salt.
 

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What age are we talking about in early chapter books, and how many chapters is the norm?

I know there is going to be lots of room for variation, but just a quick rough estimate would be helpful from anyone with some experience or knowledge on the subject.

As said above, the target age for chapter books is 7-9 (with precocious 5/6 year olds in the mix as well).

A good example is a book like IVY AND BEAN. It only has about 8 thousand words, which is only about 35-ish manuscript pages -- but remember, when it is actually printed, it is small, it has a lot of white space on the pages and a lot of illustrations, and is more like 120 pages.
 

sissybaby

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Thanks so much, Judy and Jennifer, for all the helpful info.

I'll go back to that site today and check out some of the books we have from the library. That should help me get a feel for things.

It's so odd - last year when my son was in first grade, his chapter books were very simplistic.

This year the first book he brought home he was supposed to read a chapter at a time, then return it with my signature saying he finished it. I messed up on reading the instructions and had him read the entire book.

The next book he brought home was a totally different animal. It seems like he jumped two grade levels!

I'm wondering if it's because they have tested them now for reading skills and discovered he was ready for something more challenging. I'm glad to see they are pushing him a little. I was worried at first that maybe he was beginning to struggle and they were dropping him back or something.

Thanks again for the help.
 

MsJudy

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That's interesting. I just poked around a bit on that site and was weirded out by the supposed "reading levels" -- one of my favorite chapter books to give to 6-7 year olds, MY FATHERS DRAGON, that has less than 8k words, they list as being reading level 4.9? The wha? Several other books that I think are very obviously chapter books for younger readers, they also listed as having leves in the 4's. So, I'd take it with a grain of salt.

RenLearn reading levels aren't based on length. They have a complicated algorithm that measures syntax and I believe vocabulary. Beatrix Potter's books are also considered 4th grade by their system.

That doesn't mean a 4th grader would be likely to read the book. It does mean that your average first grader who can handle a grade-level book but isn't ready for something more advanced is going to need help to read Peter Rabbit. Because of some complicated, old-fashioned sentences, it won't be a book that kid could read independently. So I read it out loud to my students first, and my advanced readers can then read it on their own pretty successfully.

Authors don't usually write for a certain "reading level" unless they're under contract for a specific easy-reading series. So it's entirely possible for a writer to target young readers (under 10) but end up using words or sentence structures that make it difficult for a beginning reader to handle. But in a typical classroom, about a fourth of the students will be reading above grade level, so there will be an audience for those books. 7-year-old kids who can read at a 10-year-old level, for example, but still have a 7-year-old's interests. And a 7-year-old reading at a genuine first grade level will enjoy hearing that book read out loud.

RenLearn isn't designed to limit what kids read. It's designed to help kids choose independent reading books that they can be successful with. There's an accompanying placement test that gives kids a range of recommended reading levels. Last year my third-grade son's range was 3.1-5.1. And as long as he stuck with those, he was able to read every book easily and pass the comprehension quiz at the end.

Writers are borrowing RenLearn because they've done a lot of the work for us (word count, etc.). But it certainly shouldn't be used by writers to inhibit good writing in any way.

(I hope this didn't sound like a lecture. I'm a first grade teacher, and I use RenLearn a LOT. But as you said, it isn't meant for writers, and they should take things with a grain of salt.)
 
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MsJudy

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It's so odd - last year when my son was in first grade, his chapter books were very simplistic.

This year the first book he brought home he was supposed to read a chapter at a time, then return it with my signature saying he finished it. I messed up on reading the instructions and had him read the entire book.

The next book he brought home was a totally different animal. It seems like he jumped two grade levels!

I'm wondering if it's because they have tested them now for reading skills and discovered he was ready for something more challenging. I'm glad to see they are pushing him a little. I was worried at first that maybe he was beginning to struggle and they were dropping him back or something.

Thanks again for the help.

I bet that's exactly what happened. Kids grow so much in a few months, not just in their ability to read but also in their ability to follow through on what they start. After the first few weeks, the teacher gets to know who needs a challenge and who needs more support.
 

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MsJudy

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Now that this is a sticky on the subject, I thought I should explain more thoroughly what the RenLearn/Accelerated Reader website is really all about, and why children's book authors owe it such a huge debt of gratitude!

Until now, teachers had a dilemma. Sure, some kids just love to read. But what about the others? How do we:
1) Motivate them to read independently?
2) Help them choose books they CAN read independently?
3) Hold them accountable for actually having read the books they say they have?

Until now, the answers were:
1) Nag them a lot.
2) Use textbook series (anybody remember the SRA Reading Kits?) instead of commercial literature.
3) Make them write book reports (now there's a strategy guaranteed to make them love reading for pleasure...)

Accelerated Reader is a web-based comprehension program. Kids take a placement test, are assigned a reading range roughly equivalent to 1-2 grade levels, self-select literature from their range, read the books, and take a short 5-10 questions quiz when they finish. All the teacher has to do is mark her classroom library with the correct levels, give kids time to take quizzes, and offer an incentive program for kids who take advantage of the program. The computer does the rest! Each book is awarded points depending on its length, and kids set personal goals. (My 8th grader has to earn 20 points to pass language arts each quarter; since he's a good reader, his personal goal is 30 points. A real bookworm might set hers at 50 points.) Schools offer different kinds of prizes for meeting quarterly goals; at Scott's jr. high, it's an invitation-only ice cream party.

Here's where it's good for writers: Schools that use AR create a society where reading is something everybody does. Kids read, they talk about reading, they compete to see who can read more, they recommend books to their friends, they trade books, they nag their parents to buy them more books.... Plus an author who has her books listed on the AR web site gets free publicity, including full-color pictures of the front cover, a blurb, mentions of any awards and reviews....

Everybody say, Thank you, RenLearn!

(p.s. I think they add books when they come out in paperback, generally. At any rate, one of AR's newest books is....
ALEX AND THE IRONIC GENTLEMAN! Congrats, Toothpaste!
It is considered a 5.8 reading level, a Middle Grade interest level, has 78112 words and is worth 12 points.)
 
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sissybaby

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I LOVE the accelerated reading program! My older kids are female and I never had a problem getting them to read. But my little one's a male, and I have heard so much that boys OFTEN don't like to read, or else don't accel at it. This worried me, even though my husband and I have read to him consistently since he was two months old, which was when we got him.

When he got to participate in the AR program last year he really had fun with it. Now he's one of the two top readers in his class (they are both boys, by the way).

And that was a great plug for Alex, Judy. I had to read that when I discovered Toothpaste wrote it, and it is a thoroughly enjoyable read, even for an old fogey like me. I've recommended it to numerous kids, including all of them from my 4H group!

Then Toothpaste recommended the Chowder books to me, and we had a lot of fun with those, also.

Now, I have another question. In an early chapter book, should we try to mostly use words from the Dolch word lists, or does it really matter? I'm just wanting to get a good feel for this before I go any further with Pandora, which is my cow book I'm working on. I'm worried my chapters may be too short, so that might have to be changed also.

Any suggestions, anyone?

Thanks in advance.

Sissy
 

sissybaby

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Just another name for sight words, I think. Usually they are words that you wouldn't use phonics for, I think, but I could be wrong on that.

Sorry to throw that one out there. My bad.