Stacia, While I appreciate your market search, you have completely twisted my words and I feel as if you used them against me and those at Algonkian. It is true what they say about needing thick skin in this industry but I never thought I would need it on a writer's forum.
Um...wow. How did I twist your words and use them against you? I answered a few of your comments, that's all; a total of four sentences. I wasn't being rude or nasty with you. I wasn't insulting you.
I've just gone back and re-read my post, and I can honestly not see how you thought it was insulting to you in any way. The one insulting comment was one made by you--saying people might think you're crazy. I said no, we wouldn't think that, and said you seem to enjoy conferences--I based that on your repeatedly mentioning you've attended a few, so forgive me for assuming that was because you enjoyed the experience--and that if you enjoy conferences you should go, and I hope you have a wonderful time.
So how exactly is that twisting your words to use against you?
Yes, I am new to the business of writing and I do enjoy going to writers' conferences, but the fun I spoke of was twisted.
How? By me saying if you find conferences fun that's great, and I hope you enjoy this one?
While I owe you no explanation, I feel I must tell you that I have a MILD case of agoraphobia, in which I rarely leave my house without my husband. Whenever I do, my family and friends cheer me on! I don't go to the conferences for the reception parties, mixers, or open mics. I go to the classes, eat supper, and then lock myself in my hotel room for the night. The fun I speak of is in learning. I love the information dump I get at these conferences because they only help me to improve my writing. That is why I leave my house and go with or without my husband. Of the three I've gone to, he's gone to two of them. Not the conference itself, but with me nonetheless.
And again, why is that any different from someone who goes to hang out with other writers? You go because they're fun. No one is judging you for that. I was wishing you well. (And you're not the only one who has a hard time leaving your house.)
They don't claim to have any *secret* that will get me published any sooner than anyone else.
Unfortunately, yes, they do. That wasn't me relying on your statement. It was going by comments they have made repeatedly, both on their website(s) and on the numerous sock-puppet blogs they've set up purporting to be just aspiring writers talking about how great those Algonkian conferences are and how the organizers really have an in and can get you published.
I agree, writing requires a diligent heart and lots of hard work pushing out pages that we hope will attract an agent who will then attract an editor and publisher.
In fact, if you were to look at their website there is a paragraph that says:
...provide you, the aspiring author, with not only network connections, but comprehensive, hands-on experience utilizing the craft skills, insider advice, and hard-to-swallow facts you must possess before you can even hope to get a first novel successfully published in this tougher-than-ever market. This is experience and info you will not receive at any other conference, and certainly, not from any Craft and Tips 101 writer magazine.
It is a "unique" writers conference that offers insider advice, not a secret handshake as James has jokingly (I hope) wrote about. I may be new to the business of writing, but even I know I have to do the work. No one is going to write a book for me and no one is going to push my book forward if it doesn't have what it takes to get published the traditional way in this economy.
ROF, this thread isn't about you. No one here is actually discussing you personally. It is about the Algonkian workshops, and I'm terribly sorry, but the excerpt you quoted does indeed say "We can give you the insider
info, advice, and
craft skills you NEED to get published, and you can't get it anywhere else."
They say that repeatedly on their website. They imply it everywhere else. It isn't true.
As stated above from their own website, it is their method and presentation that makes them unique, not secret, not exclusive, not special.
No, sorry, that's not what they claim.
Everyone who writes for the goal of being published, wants to be published. Including myself. I don't attend the conferences for the fun, but with the hope of getting published. If I have the privilege of attracting an agent because of my book premise, then that is an added bonus to the writers conference. I attend these conferences for my own selfish reasons-MY book and any tips I can learn along the way to know what I can do to make it better, more salable, and eventually published are reasons good enough for me.
I really don't understand why me saying conferences are fun, and I hope you have some, is taken as such an insult. When I go to conferences it's just because they're fun; almost everyone I know goes just because they're fun. Sure, I spend a lot of time hiding in my hotel room, too, but when I'm not hiding I'm enjoying myself. That's worth the price for me.
I know you hope to get published. That is why, actually, I felt that as someone who actually is published--multiple times, with several different NY houses and other publishers around the world--it was my responsibility, and a nice thing to do, to inform you that you can get those same tips anywhere else for free, and that the people running that conference do not have any special insider knowledge, so you could save your money.
You can have pros look over your work and offer tips here too, in the Share Your Work forum, once you have 50 posts. Once again, for free.
You're welcome to spend the money and go to the conference, of course. And I hope the experience is everything you hope it will be. I just wanted to make sure you knew what you were actually getting, as opposed to what the Algonkian people tell you you'll get, and I wanted to contribute a post to the thread which addresses the purpose of the forum, which is to analyze and discuss the claims of various publishers/agents/workshops/etc.
I sincerely apologize to Michael Neff and anyone else associated with the Algonkian conferences for having my words twisted against you. That was never my intent.
And again. I don't mean to be rude here, but really, where exactly did I twist your words? My total post consisted of four sentences quoted from you, all of which I took at face value.
I am asking for a moderator to shut this thread down, that I started, and somehow got combined into this previous war zone. I simply wanted to know if anyone else had attended one of these conferences, the SFWP particularly, and if anyone was planning to attend this years conference in July. I've received my answer to the latter, no.
You posted your question in the BR&BC, which means people are going to check the background of the conference and organizers, and ask questions. In fact, if you'll notice, your question was merged into an existing thread about them.
If you're simply looking for fellow attendees, I suggest you post in the
Roundtable forum, or one dedicated to your genre. Those forums are not for delving into the backgrounds and analyzing the claims of their subjects.
Perhaps that misunderstanding is why you're unhappy? This thread really isn't about you, and it's not aimed at telling you why you're wrong to go to this conference (neither was my post).
When I signed up for this writer's forum, my first, I looked forward to speaking with and learning from other writer's experiences. This was not what I feel is happening here. Some of you seem to be nothing more than a lynch mob and have somehow used this forum as a platform to shout out your opinions from something you've admittedly never attended. So here's my suggestion-go to one of these conferences. At least then you'll be able to speak from personal experiences and not from the pulpit.
Okay. Sorry, but this is where I start to get a bit insulted myself. You say you look forward to learning from the experiences of other writers, but when we offer you the wisdom of that experience you get angry and upset.
I don't need to spend a lot of money to attend a conference to learn how to get commercially published run by someone who is not himself commercially published, and whose track record of getting people commercially published is no more impressive than that of any random person off the street, to know it's probably not worth the money if my goal is to be commercially published.
I don't have to smoke crack to know smoking crack is a bad idea, do I? Can I advise people against attempting suicide without having done so myself? Of course the conferences are a very different situation, yes, but the idea that one cannot offer advice or thoughts without having first experienced something is, I'm sorry, rather...well, it's just not a good one.
If you think the advice and knowledge of the Algonkian people is better than that of the publishing professionals who've offered our thoughts here, that's perfectly fine. But I got published multiple times by not paying the Algonkian people, and so did everyone else here. So I'm going to advise you on what worked for me, and what I've learned in the past six years or so.
"Learning from other people's experiences" doesn't just mean "having what you want to do confirmed as a good idea." It means sometimes being told that what you're doing is a bad idea, or at least unnecessary. Sorry, but again, that is the truth. You say you wanted to learn from experienced authors, but when we offer you our advice and help you slap us and tell us we're twisting your words around and being nasty, simply because we showed you that there was no special benefit to something but sincerely wished you a good time anyway.
The welcome you've shown me and others who have attended one of these conferences is evidence enough for me to know that this is not a forum I want to be a part of, whether this thread gets shut down or not.
Thanks,
Robin
And I'm very sorry you feel that way. As Uncle Jim said, this is the most contentious forum here. There are plenty of others for you to explore. And I don't believe we've been rude or unwelcoming to anyone here; I believe we have in fact taken quite a bit of rudeness from them.
Once again, I sincerely wish you the best of luck, whatever you decide to do.