Odds of getting published

The odds of getting published by some press somewhere would approach 100%. That said, some small presses are highly selective.

You don't know if you should be proud of having a book published? Is this a joke? It sounds like you want to know what the odds are so you can know if you are in a select, special group. If you have a good book, you have very good odds of seeing it published. Bad book, bad odds. Still, I can't figure out what you are really trying to ask people.

Bad book + how many small presses are out there = still good odds. You need to research the publisher.

hi Jolly,

This site is a gold mine, free, and open to all. I think this is the best community of writers in the world (granted, I am baised). It is not within my authority to say who can and cannot use this site, nor to specify how the site should be used.

But with that being said, I'm a little concerned by your posts and threads. I notice a very common theme (I won't say what it is because it isn't germaine to my next point)

We get many fly by night newbies here, they come in, post a couple of threads, then never return. This makes me sad as they merely scratch the surface of this site, then leave without knowing how truly wonderful it is.

Imagine a 14th century man suffering from a disease and a couple of disabilities. He steps through a portal and is magically transported to a 21st century hospital. He walks into the lobby, notices that the hospital does not have a cross hanging up anywhere in plain view. He mutters that this obviously can't be a place of credible healing and so he turns around and walks back through the portal to return back to 14th century whereever...

I feel that is what many newbies do, they come in, something isn't quite to their liking, and they leave without even really knowing what it is they are leaving. A place that can work wonders for their writing.

I have a suggestion.

Post your first chapter in SYW.

Let us take a look at it.

I know this is hard and very very scary. But you are among kindred spirits here who are just like you. We understand what it is to love a thing, pour your heart into it, only to have it ripped to shreds by the uncaring, unfeeling world.

Trust us. Try us out. Let the hospital take a crack at your ailments, just like that 14th century man, you will be amazed at what this site can do for you and your writing.

Post your 1st chp in SYW

Let us help you. If nothing else, we can validate that your book is solid and to not lose heart.

Mel...

JollySanta said:

I was just wondering if anyone knew what exactly the odds were of getting a novel published (by a small press and/or large press). I only have one novel published by a small press and before I go on my writing break I'd like to know if it was an accomplishment I should be proud of. I don't care what the answer is, I just wanted to know.

By the way, if this topic is in the wrong section, feel free to put it elsewhere.

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Why wouldn't you be proud of getting your book published? I'm not sure I understand, you have achieved what many of us here (myself included) are strivng for. To question if this is a thing to be proud of, well it sort of feels like a slap in the face for all the work, blood sweat and tears I have poured into my work, my queries, and everything else that goes along with getting a book published. I don't think you intended to insult us with your post, but why do you need to ask the question? Being published is what we all want.

sheadakota said:

Why wouldn't you be proud of getting your book published? ..... Being published is what we all want.

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You know, for some weird reason, i complete miss that you said this.

By the tone of all your posts, it comes across that you are still trying to get published when in fact you are. guess my brain just kept automatically interpretted things according to the tone of your posts, rather than the substance of your posts.

I'd still like to take a look at your first chapter though, couldn't hurt.

Mel...

JollySanta said:

I was just wondering if anyone knew what exactly the odds were of getting a novel published (by a small press and/or large press). I only have one novel published by a small press and before I go on my writing break I'd like to know if it was an accomplishment I should be proud of. I don't care what the answer is, I just wanted to know.

By the way, if this topic is in the wrong section, feel free to put it elsewhere.

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Odds of being published by a small press are darn good, but odds get tougher as the press gets bigger, even if you have an agent.

Should you be proud of being published with a small press? That's hard to say. For one thing, it depends on who the publisher is. For example, if it's Publish America, then probably not because that's a vanity press. Same with iUniverse, Lulu, Lightning Source, Book Surge... But if it's a publisher that actually reviews submissions and selects or rejects projects based on their literary merit, then publication would definitely be something to be proud of.

I'm published by two royalty-paying small presses, and I'm proud of that accomplishment. They're both good, discriminating publishers. I passed muster. That's always nice to know.

Jolly,

And what exactly is the point of your question? What small press published you and how many queries did you send out before acceptance? Did you use an agent? What's the genre?

How could you NOT be proud to have written, sold, and had published two books--and by two traditional publishers! How many people in this country--any country--could say that, regardless of income earned? Very, very few writer's will ever make much money from their slave-like endeavors. They write because they love doing so. They can't NOT write. If it's giant money that defines you as far as success is concerned, that's certainly up to you, and you alone. It sounds as if you have a personal decision to make.

Good luck.

JollySanta said:

As I said, the point of my question is to determine whether or not I've accomplished something to be proud of. The publisher I had was DNA Press (I did not pay a dime). I had no agent. I am a science fiction writer.
...

To be perfectly honest, the reason I started to question my writing career was because I recently learned that a friend of mine (who is the same age as me) is now a famous artist (she makes millions and is on the covers of many magazines). For the past few years I thought being a published novelist was something that few others could be, but after seeing what she accomplished, I suddenly realized how little I have done with my life. I give myself credit for trying my best; I truly did try my best. But trying just doesn't seem good enough anymore.

I'm not looking for pity. I'm looking for honest answers as to whether or not I should have pride in my achievement. I don't care what the answer is, I just want some closure.

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Tough love time. Here is my answer to your question

You should not be proud of your accomplishment. Truth be told, I feel shame for you.

Reading your post, is like watching a parent berate their 14 yr old child after they've won a gynmastic's match.

The child puts in a great performance, the crowd cheers, and she wins the event. With pride she walks up to you with her medal drapped around her neck and carrying a 1st place trophy. You snatch the trophy from her hands and smash it against the wall. "Mr. Robert's daughter is in the olympics, she just won a gold medal for diving. What is your accomplishment as compared to hers? Just a stupid high school trophy, how pathetic," you scream.

That is pretty much how you are now coming across to me. Your post doesn't mention what your book is about, if you are proud of the story, the idea, the soul and spirit of the work. All I get from you is a point-by-point comparison to 'others'. That is your standard for judging your accomplishment? How it compares to others?

It is true, we do compare our stories to others, but not in the same sense as you are doing. From your tone and semantics of your posts, I get no feelings of love from your work. You are as cold as a Soviet coach whipping a 7 yr old future gymnast into shape.

I think I see why you are incapable of seeing how your posts come across as rude and offensive (as has been stated by several other posters).

As artists, we love our works, they are 'our' babies. And then, a so called fellow artist comes in, and essentially berates his child in front of us. You take the trophy that is your child's accomplishment and smash it against the wall in front of all us other parents while screaming at your child that she is no good because some other child is better???

That is what you are doing. Having given this matter serious thought, you are coming across as someone who is 13 years old and not 26. You are coming across as a 'suit' and not an 'artist'.

I have no idea what you are looking to gain from your posts. If you really wanted objectivity, you would post a chapter, or hell, show us a link to the book so we could buy it. But you aren't doing that? You are coming into these forums with cryptic questions and scenarios and insulting each and everyone of us who have been shedding blood, sweat, and tears for years just to get a single story into some unknown 'free' magazine.

There are people on this site that have been writing for longer than you or I have been alive and they would consider that labor of love to be worth it if they could get just one publication. And then you come in with this 'woe is me' attitude about your life being over because your publication is not on parr with your millionaire artist friend.

I'm glad you came on to this site, it is great to have an example of what not to be. When someone asks me if they have what it takes to be an artist, I will show them your posts. If they agree with you, I will tell them no, they don't have what it takes.

Writing is a labor of love. Writing is a labor of love. Writing. Is. A. Labor. Of. Love.

We've tried to be encouraging and supportive, but I don't think you want that. We've also been honest but apparently you don't want that either. So it's tough love time. Stop being ridiculous. Yes, ridiculous.

Should you write?

If you ask me that question, my answer is simple. I do not want to write. I HAVE TO WRITE. I have a million stories in my head, dying to get out. Everything I see, hear, touch, taste, gives me an idea for a character, a story, a plot. Truth be told, I sometimes hate this curse. This compulsion, to get up out of my bed at 3:00am becuase I had a cool dream and if I don't write it down it will be lost forever. Or to spend tens of hours on a story that just doesn't pan out, but I have to finish it because it is begging me for life, to be finished, complete.

I, along with 95% of my bretheren on this site do not write because we want to. We write because we have to. For good or bad, for fame or poverty, we write because we are artists, and we are slaves to our art.

Mel...

JollySanta said:

To be perfectly honest, the reason I started to question my writing career was because I recently learned that a friend of mine (who is the same age as me) is now a famous artist (she makes millions and is on the covers of many magazines). For the past few years I thought being a published novelist was something that few others could be, but after seeing what she accomplished, I suddenly realized how little I have done with my life. I give myself credit for trying my best; I truly did try my best. But trying just doesn't seem good enough anymore.

I'm not looking for pity. I'm looking for honest answers as to whether or not I should have pride in my achievement. I don't care what the answer is, I just want some closure.

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You aren't going to find the answers you're looking for to this question on this board. To use dgiharris's Olympics theme, some people are devastated when they win the silver medal. Others are grateful just to get to participate, even if they don't have a prayer of qualifying for any of the final rounds.

No one here can possibly answer this question for you.

But people who are artists are driven to create. They'd rather do that than eat. There are a lot better career paths to take to find fame and fortune. High end merchandise commissioned sales. Strong performing diversified mutual funds. Hell, even bagging groceries yields a better chance than writing, but that's not why most writers do it.

If you need to conduct a Gallup poll to find out if your life's been a waste or not because you don't make as much money as your friend, then I hate to tell you what the answer is, but it's not because you've 'only' published one book in 7 years.

Here's a quick litmus test:

You're dead.

Did you do anything with your life that endures beyond you?

Did you help others, or create meaningful art, or advance science and technology, or teach, or inspire new ideas, or provoke thought?

Did you hold others' hands, laugh, cry, enjoy yourself, give back, take risks, make mistakes, show appreciation, and do your best?

That's how you know if your time's been well-spent or not.

No one may ever read my book until I'm nothing but dust and rags, except for a handful of beta reading friends and bored literary agents sucking down Pall Malls, but you can bet I don't regret one minute I spent on it, regardless.

I'll also add to the excellent words of everyone else here that there will always be someone out there doing better than you. If comparing yourself to those people is going to be your benchmark, you will always be disappointed.

Let me repost an excerpt from agent Kristin Nelson's blog quoting another excellent agent Deirdre Knight about comparing yourself to others (in this case other writers):

1) Don't compare yourself to other authors. Every career, no matter if same agent, same editor, or same house, is unique. Comparison derails you with jealousy and can be toxic in a variety of ways

2) Looking at your friends careers and growing impatient. This is a long haul business and we have seen new authors who rush too hard to get projects out that should have been edited more. Don't kneecap yourself by worrying about your friend's recent deal.

3) Don't decide your career is like anyone else's. Your career is unique to you. A doctor can't treat you based on a friend's illness. Dig in, focus on what you need to do and forget everyone else. Write the books.


(the full blog post can be found here: http://pubrants.blogspot.com/2008/08/rwa-panel-extra-bonus-material-blog.html )

I don't seem to have any problems getting offers from small press. I've received three contracts and turned down three. I need to discriminate more on who handles my projects. Ultimately, I'm looking for MMP offset with a small or medium advance.

Tri

Jolly,

I must agree with the other posters here. But I wonder if your issue has less to do with writing than self-esteem. The fact that you compare yourself to a very successful artist indicates that you judge your own merit based someone else's achievements. It sounds like you're not happy with who you are.

Set goals for yourself and work toward them. If your goal as a writer is to sell more books than Stephen King or J.K. Rowling (or make the $$$), you're in for disappointment. If your goal is to write the the stories that burn at your soul, to write every day, to publish one more book, and to follow your muse, I believe you'll be happier. FWIW, read Stephen King's On Writing. He talks about why he started writing (not to make money - that was a bonus) and reinforces the point that writers aren't in this "business/art" for the money/super success. (You'll also get some great writing tips, too.)

I wish you luck in your writing career. Try not to be so down on yourself. Maybe as you take your writing break you can journal your thoughts about your direction in life.

Just to present something of the opposite experience here: I also had a small-press publish my book in 1999. My work got a 3 star review from The Romantic Times. I received one royalty check (under $100) and no advance for the work. I still do not consider myself published.

Why? Because my personal definition of publication means that my grandmother in BFE-Nowhere Michigan can walk into her local market or bookstore and purchase my book. I didn't realize that was my definition until after the contract was long signed and the copies were in my hand.

Yeah, I know there's lots of people who'd give their eyeteeth to acheive what I have, and I would never discount their likeexperience as published, if that's how they define it. It's not for me to define success or publication for any other writer out there, only for myself. We all do this for individual reasons, with personal markers for success. I think it's rather unfair to hold others to your own definition and not understand theirs could be quite different. (the joys of subjectivity, eh?)

Just thought I'd toss in my tuppence on the base topic.

honestly, i wouldn't ask somebody else
whether i should be proud of something i've done.

that's so personal.

if we tell you to be proud, you would be?

if we told you not to be, you wouldn't be?

i find this post very odd.

As long as it's not a vanity press, it's all good. From what I've read it wasn't so...

Pride is something very personal and very subjective but that won't refrain me from telling you that getting published in a small respectable press is something that gives you merit, if you try to get an agent and it's normally considered to be great. At least, I would be ecstatic. I don't understand why you would feel otherwise.

But maybe I misunderstood the way you formulated your question.