The AW Amazon Store
Buy Books by AWers!

 

Welcome to the AbsoluteWrite Water Cooler! Please read The Newbie Guide To Absolute Write

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 44

Thread: 4RV Publishing, LLC

  1. #1
    figuring it all out
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    99

    4RV Publishing, LLC

    Does anyone know about this publisher? 4RV Publishing LLC? I can't find anything about them except their website. Is it a small press? Has anyone worked with them?

  2. #2
    Mostly Harmless SuperModerator CaoPaux's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Coastal Desert
    Posts
    13,024
    http://www.4rvpublishingllc.com/

    4RV Publishing LLC gives writers the chance to produce books, quality books, through traditional means.

    Our staff includes illustrators, artists, editors, and technical designers.
    We want to see authors rewarded for their efforts and for them to be able to retain control over their work after a period of time.
    Looks like yet another POD house grown from a self-pub operation.

    The conversation here: http://www.verlakay.com/boards/index.php?topic=29363.0 leaves me thinking she means well, but isn't in a position to overcome the limitations of POD.
    ICAO
    ---------
    Achievers strive for excellence. Perfectionists drive themselves to extinction. -- A Grapple A Day
    I've never known any trouble that an hour's reading didn't assuage. -- Charles DeSecondat

    II 2016: 2017:

  3. #3
    figuring it all out
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    99
    Interesting. I just found that same link on Verla's board. I was just curious about the publisher as a couple authors have come out saying they got contracts.

    Thanks!

  4. #4
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    9

    A reply to

    "Looks like yet another POD house grown from a self-pub operation.

    The conversation here: http://www.verlakay.com/boards/index.php?topic=29363.0 leaves me thinking she means well, but isn't in a position to overcome the limitations of POD."

    We are not self-publishing, subsidy publishing, or POD (although at times we use POD for short runs if needed, which even the major houses are beginning to do). We are a small press which puts out quality books and pays royalties without charging the clients.

    Yes, we have authors under contract, more than the two who posted on the other forum. Yes, we are adding more authors as time passes, but we also reject as many as we accept. If the submission doesn't meet our standards, we send a rejection notice with a few reasons as to why.

    You won't find much about 4RV yet because we're relatively new, but everyone on staff is experienced in his or her field. The books which have been released match most of the others found in any bookstore. We give the standard discounts and accept returns.

    Do we have things to learn? Yes, we are learning just as anyone who wants to succeed must. Do we deserve to be slammed? I don't think so.

    If anyone has questions, please ask rather than assuming facts not in evidence. Thanks.

  5. #5
    Crypto-fascist Soccer Mom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Under your couch
    Posts
    18,608
    Welcome, Vivian. What troubles me about the website is that it appears to be geared toward authors as clients and not to readers. I"m curious about your submission guidelines that say you

    Publish books, which pays royalties to authors/illustrators
    Accept 8 - 12 titles per year
    Work with authors one on one.
    Produce quality books.
    Authors Services are available
    What are "Authors Services?"

    Thanks.
    <clickety to see my books


    Join us for the Absolute Write-in #AWritein

    Marguerite Says...Microwave Peanut Butter Fudge

    I also Twitter & Facebook

    People think Iím disciplined. It is not discipline. It is devotion. There is a great difference ~Luciano Pavarotti

  6. #6
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin crystalwizard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    planet earth
    Posts
    42
    Quote Originally Posted by CaoPaux View Post
    http://www.4rvpublishingllc.com/



    Looks like yet another POD house grown from a self-pub operation.

    The conversation here: http://www.verlakay.com/boards/index.php?topic=29363.0 leaves me thinking she means well, but isn't in a position to overcome the limitations of POD.

    What, exactly, do you see the "limitations of POD" as being... other than, of course, that you don't get to write a monthly check to pay for warehousing books. And you don't get to scramble to market warehoused books. And you don't get the fun of going into large amounts of debt to pay for large print runs.

    I'm curious if you have actually researched all the benefits of POD or if you are simply parroting what you've read on some board or seen bandied about by people that prefer to live in the stone age, continue to sink several thousand dollars into an offset print run and then try to find customers they might not be able to.

  7. #7
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    6

    A 4RV author

    Hi everyone.

    I recently had a book published by 4RV and have to say their screening process is very thorough, along with their editing skills.

    My manuscript was sent to their designated readers for first impressions before a contract was given. Once a contract was signed, my manuscript went through a diligent editing step, not through one but two editors.

    I was consulted on the cover, and given the ease to suggest changes.

    My middle grade novel came out in July 2008 and I am very pleased with the quality of the book. As well, Vivian has promoted all of our books in conferences she's attended, is there for us whenever any of us have a blog book tour or guest spot on a yahoo group.

    I was never approached to pay for anything.

    All in all I have to openly say that I would gladly sign another contract with 4RV.

    Lea Schizas

  8. #8
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin crystalwizard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    planet earth
    Posts
    42
    Quote Originally Posted by ixchel View Post
    Does anyone know about this publisher? 4RV Publishing LLC? I can't find anything about them except their website. Is it a small press? Has anyone worked with them?
    They're small press and a search on BarnesandNoble.com for 4RV Publishing turns up a list of several books.

  9. #9
    volitare nequeo AW Moderator veinglory's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    right here
    Posts
    27,768
    The limitations of POD are that in the hands of most small presses POD books are not returnable and so have slim to nil bookstore presence. If this press is an exception that would be good to know.
    Emily Veinglory

  10. #10
    Super Browser triceretops's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    In a van down by the river
    Posts
    13,498
    Wasn't relevant anymore
    Last edited by triceretops; 08-13-2008 at 02:42 AM. Reason: Wasn't relevant anymore

  11. #11
    Mostly Harmless SuperModerator CaoPaux's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Coastal Desert
    Posts
    13,024
    Quote Originally Posted by Vivian Zabel View Post
    "Looks like yet another POD house grown from a self-pub operation.

    The conversation here: http://www.verlakay.com/boards/index.php?topic=29363.0 leaves me thinking she means well, but isn't in a position to overcome the limitations of POD."

    We are not self-publishing, subsidy publishing, or POD (although at times we use POD for short runs if needed, which even the major houses are beginning to do). We are a small press which puts out quality books and pays royalties without charging the clients.
    Welcome, Vivian. You founded 4RV to publish your own books and still publish your own work through 4RV: Hence, 4RV is "grown from a self-pub operation". You are also confusing POD the business model with digital printing the technology.

    Do we have things to learn? Yes, we are learning just as anyone who wants to succeed must. Do we deserve to be slammed? I don't think so.

    If anyone has questions, please ask rather than assuming facts not in evidence. Thanks.
    Who has slammed you and how? The only subjective statement I made was that you mean well.

    Quote Originally Posted by crystalwizard View Post
    What, exactly, do you see the "limitations of POD" as being... other than, of course, that you don't get to write a monthly check to pay for warehousing books. And you don't get to scramble to market warehoused books. And you don't get the fun of going into large amounts of debt to pay for large print runs.
    Nor do you get the sales volume that comes from being stocked in bookstores, as opposed to being available via special order. POD is great for books with audiences that can be targeted directly. If it's working for you, even better.

    I'm curious if you have actually researched all the benefits of POD or if you are simply parroting what you've read on some board or seen bandied about by people that prefer to live in the stone age, continue to sink several thousand dollars into an offset print run and then try to find customers they might not be able to.
    Why would a publisher acquire a book without the confidence it will sell enough to justify the print run? Those that do don't survive long. Commercial publishers also spend many thousands of dollars on market research, marketing the book itself, promoting the author, etc., etc.

    POD and/or digital printing is great for books projected to have a limited audience and therefore won't sell in the volume needed to justify an offset run. For someone trying to reach the trade and mass markets, however, it's not the best way to go.
    ICAO
    ---------
    Achievers strive for excellence. Perfectionists drive themselves to extinction. -- A Grapple A Day
    I've never known any trouble that an hour's reading didn't assuage. -- Charles DeSecondat

    II 2016: 2017:

  12. #12
    Mostly Harmless SuperModerator CaoPaux's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Coastal Desert
    Posts
    13,024
    Quote Originally Posted by triceretops View Post
    I have direct experience with the limitations of POD. And this is only my first POD publisher. I'll gladly link you to the second one who is experiencing some of the same symptoms. And there are countless others who have gone belly-up, and appear in the archives of AW.
    With all due respect, Tri, it was obvious from the get-go that Rain had serious issues other than being POD, none of which are prominent in 4RV.
    ICAO
    ---------
    Achievers strive for excellence. Perfectionists drive themselves to extinction. -- A Grapple A Day
    I've never known any trouble that an hour's reading didn't assuage. -- Charles DeSecondat

    II 2016: 2017:

  13. #13
    Super Browser triceretops's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    In a van down by the river
    Posts
    13,498
    Well then if anything, those issues magnified an already adled business model to begin with. My situation was about as far down as I could go with the publisher dragging me every inch of the way. I do not see, to this day, any difference in the outcome of a publisher who uses POD and is inexperienced/clueless, and one who uses it and is unscrupulous.

    Sales numbers are the bottom line here, and I don't care how you cut it, or who is running the company. Print on demand has some serious problems for commercial fiction.

    Tri

  14. #14
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    9
    First of all, any of my books have to go through the same process as any other submission, only the editors are even harder on my work than on anyone else's. We do give any staff member a chance to submit his/her works, but they must meet the same standards as any submission.

    Secondly, as I noted earlier, all our books are returnable and get the standard discount through Ingram and Baker and Taylor. We follow the "rules" of being a real publisher.

    At present, we have warehoused, and so has our printer, several thousand books, although we do use POD sometimes.

    Author's services are for those people who want something besides a regular publishing contract. A man contacted me last week who wants a book that will not be marketed. He wants a few copies for his family. We will give him advice on how to get the book printed. In other words, we will help where we can. I visited with an author on the phone for over an hour, giving suggestions about how to improve her manuscript, one we had rejected. Those are authors' services, and we aren't paid a penny. When we say we want to work one on one with authors and artists, that's what we mean.

    Yes, our web site is set up mainly for authors, not readers. Publishing companies do mainly first want to attract good authors.

    As far as going "belly up," something like 90% of new companies of all kinds go out of business in the first year. It's something that happens sometimes despite all the planning and hard work that goes into that business. However, we are planning and working to be in business a long time.

    Vivian

  15. #15
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    9
    Also, we spend thousands of dollars and much time and effort on marketing books we publish.

    Vivian

  16. #16
    Mostly Harmless SuperModerator CaoPaux's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Coastal Desert
    Posts
    13,024
    Quote Originally Posted by Vivian Zabel View Post
    Also, we spend thousands of dollars and much time and effort on marketing books we publish.

    Vivian
    That's great to hear. All too often, small presses rely upon their authors as an unpaid sales force. What's your average print run?
    Last edited by CaoPaux; 08-12-2008 at 11:40 PM. Reason: spellin'
    ICAO
    ---------
    Achievers strive for excellence. Perfectionists drive themselves to extinction. -- A Grapple A Day
    I've never known any trouble that an hour's reading didn't assuage. -- Charles DeSecondat

    II 2016: 2017:

  17. #17
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    9
    Our print runs have been 200 - 2000 books, depending on the market.

    All publishers rely on their authors to help promote their own books. Even the major houses now require a marketing plan with submissions. However, we want the author to be involved so that readers can meet and benefit from the author, as well as our selling books.

    Vivian

  18. #18
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    9
    An added note to the promotion and marketing, we will be showcasing the works of six authors at a book festival the last of the month. Not all can attend, but their books will, and those books will get as much attention and publicity as the books of the authors there.

    We also have membership in an organization that adds and prominently displays our books in their booths at book festivals across the country.

    Thank you, all, for allowing me to discuss our company with you. I understand the concerns, and hopefully I've addressed them.

    Vivian

  19. #19
    Super Browser triceretops's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    In a van down by the river
    Posts
    13,498
    Hi, Vivian, and thanks for your candor. I did not mean to direct my commnets to you (personally) in relation to your company. Matter of fact, I should have placed my lil rant in another thread entirely. I'm just very on-guard when it comes to new presses popping up. I can see that you specialize, and that's good. 10-12 books per year is economically sound and right in line. You've got good editing--more points. Your authors love their covers.

    So far, you're ahead of the game as a new small press. Your bestseller (via the info on that other website) is 400 copies, and this takes into account your newness, which is not out of the ordinary. Your other books have sold from 50 to 290 copies each. This is a little bit better than a new startup, in my opinion.

    You claim to have 2,000 copies warehoused, and I'm wondering, of those numbers, which number of books were printed offset. Or how many individual titles were offset printed. You see, I'm trying to understand how you took advantage of offset and obtained reasonable breakpoints, which would have given you adequate discounts for bulk printing. I believe lowball, 500, for one title gives the publisher a reasonable discount. I've heard 1,000 in other cases. I'd also like to know this for general purposes, since it helps to evaluate a small press that uses offset.

    Also, if you haven't obtained distribution other than Ingrams, Baker & Taylor, etc, do you plan on finding distribution/marketing to aid in bookstore placement?

    Thanks,

    Tri

  20. #20
    volitare nequeo AW Moderator veinglory's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    right here
    Posts
    27,768
    All I can say is that sounds like a realistic print run and good use of the POD technology. Many writers are quite capable of going POD, with realistic expectations and the right publisher, and being satisfied with the results.
    Emily Veinglory

  21. #21
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    5

    Cool Don't judge a new publisher by...

    ...the fact that scam artists claim to be something they're not. I suppose that to say, "Don't claim to be a traditional publisher" is the equivalent of my dad saying, "Thou doth protest too much." But it seems unfair to knock 4RV for making honest claims just because scam artists have used the same words to mislead customers.

    Vivian, take note: Strip the Web site down to nothing but the logo. (Remember how well this worked for The Artist, formerly known as Prince - and now, again, known as Prince?) Valuable clients will intuitively know to inquire, and the total lack of submission guidelines will only pique their curiosity and whet their appetites. Be sure to delay any response by a respectable three to four months.

    Seriously, though, you can see my response on the Children's Writers & Illustrators Message Board.

    I have just received the contract for my second children's book with 4RV Publishing; the first is Trockle, which was launched on April 19. I haven't paid 4RV one cent to publish my books - nor have I paid for editing, illustration, production, or promotion. I represented myself; I don't have an agent.

    I have received royalties.

    The contract was negotiable - in fact, I negotiated several points and was told by other small press publishers that they were amazed at how favorable it was to the author.

    It's a small publisher. I'm not going to get to quit the day job any time soon. I'm not going to retire until I'm in my 90s at the rate I'm going. But I have been pleased with how my work has been handled, and with both the level of support I've received from 4RV staff and with the amount of input they've allowed me at every step of the process.

    How's the quality? Buy Trockle and find out.



    Hey, a girl's gotta try.


    Holly Jahangiri

    P.S. Trockle is hardcover and contains full-color illustrations. It's gorgeous.
    Last edited by HollyJahangiri; 08-13-2008 at 12:05 AM. Reason: To add a postscript

  22. #22
    Mostly Harmless SuperModerator CaoPaux's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Coastal Desert
    Posts
    13,024
    Quote Originally Posted by Vivian Zabel View Post
    Thank you, all, for allowing me to discuss our company with you. I understand the concerns, and hopefully I've addressed them.

    Vivian
    You have, thank you! Please keep us apprised of any milestones.
    ICAO
    ---------
    Achievers strive for excellence. Perfectionists drive themselves to extinction. -- A Grapple A Day
    I've never known any trouble that an hour's reading didn't assuage. -- Charles DeSecondat

    II 2016: 2017:

  23. #23
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    9
    Concerning offset printing: to get hardback color books, we have to go out of the U.S. to print, and the minimum print run is 1,000. Here in the U.S., the best offset printing costs I've found for black text only requires at least a 1,000 print run. For full-color children's books, hardback is extremely expensive in the U.S., until a print run of 10,000.

    One title warehoused is offset. The rest aren't. We are pleased with both offset and digital printing.

    Bookstores order their books through Ingram and/or Baker and Taylor, as do schools and libraries. We have brochures that we send to bookstores, and our books are included in a catalog sent out to over 15,000 bookstores in our region of the country by an author's organization.

    Our books are found on Amazon.com and Barnes and Noble.com. Some are on Powell's web site.

    We contact bookstores, libraries, and schools to set up appearances by our authors, which helps distribute their books and them.

    We are looking into other ways to distribute our books, but those are the methods we use at present.

    Vivian

    P.S. Holly, you know how I'm trying to streamline the web site, but ...

  24. #24
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    5
    Quote Originally Posted by Vivian Zabel View Post
    P.S. Holly, you know how I'm trying to streamline the web site, but ...
    Reminds me of Star Trek. "Dammit, Jim - I'm a PUBLISHER, not a Web Designer!"

  25. #25
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    9
    *laugh* That brings back memories, and the paraphrase is so true.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Custom Search