How long have you been failing?

JollySanta said:

Thanks for the responses.

"I'm guessing that if you're thinking of quitting at the tender age of 26, you're not especially serious about writing in the first place. And that's okay! Don't force yourself to continue doing something you don't enjoy. Life's too short and you have plenty left of it ahead of you to do lots of other things."

I think you're right, Karen. I seem to have lost my passion for writing because all I see on the shelves is garbage. Most publishers/writers just put out books to make money and I'm just not into that. Besides, after 7 years of sitting in front of the computer typing away, I'm really starting to get tired of it. I hate words. I'm moving on to something else.

"I also wanted to add another comment to the OP: I have a feeling if you really wanted to quit writing- you simply would. I gather you came here and posted that nonsense because you wanted us to tell you how stupid it would be to quit. So I'm gonna give ya another little poke"

I don't know if you think you're psychic or if you're an idiot, gypsy. I made this topic because I wanted to compare my success rate to other writers. If you really can read my thoughts right now, then you'd probably know that I think you're a moron.

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Woa!!!! I didn't do anything to deserve that statement. This is the Rejection/Dejection Board. I thought you came here because you wanted some encouragement. It seemed from your post that you were looking for some tough love.

You didn't get that the poke was a friendly one?

And if there was any misunderstanding- I meant it would be nonsense for you to stop writing when you've already come so far. NOT that your feelings were nonsense.

If someone wants to write or doesn't want to write- that is none of my business. I couldn't care less. If you took the time to read my posts, I think I made it clear that all I was doing was trying to encourage you and others not to give up if it is their dream.

There are a LOT of retorts I could make now. But I'm not going to. I'm simply gonna say, " Good luck to you."

I've been writing my whole life, but only in the past two years have I taken getting published seriously. It hasn't happened yet and I'm still plugging away. I write because I feel a need to write. If nothing big of mine ever gets published, I'll still be writing. Like an addiction, the stories that flow through my head must be written down, so I write. Don't give up yet, I'm 50 and feel like I'm just starting. Best of luck.

JollySanta said:

I don't know if you think you're psychic or if you're an idiot, gypsy. I made this topic because I wanted to compare my success rate to other writers. If you really can read my thoughts right now, then you'd probably know that I think you're a moron.

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Cool it, JS. You put out what looked like a plea for help, and people came forward to offer positive thoughts. Making personal comments like that about someone who took the time to try and encourage you isn't doing your cause any favours.

You want to compare success and failure? I see fellow writers here who succeeded in sending you encouraging messages. Compare your attitude to theirs and ask yourself if you failed to appreciate time spent by people who cared enough to answer you.

If you saw anything anyone said as criticism, and you weren't able to take it, writing is probably not a good choice for you.

JollySanta said:

I think you're right, Karen. I seem to have lost my passion for writing because all I see on the shelves is garbage.

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You don't see any books that appeal to you, that inspire you, that make you laugh?

Pity. Maybe that's one reason I'm still writing - I've just discovered China Mieville, I want to read more of Terry Pratchett's witch books, I can't wait for the next George R. R. Martin novel to come out. And it's not just fantasy; there are so many fascinating books in other genres, not to mention nonfiction books out there.

Most publishers/writers just put out books to make money and I'm just not into that.

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I'm not sure what other reason a publisher should have to put out a book. Do you believe publishers should publish books without considering whether or not they'll make a profit? If so, how long do you think those publishers would stay in business?

As for most writers just putting out books to make money, even if that were true, there's nothing wrong with making money. Plus, in many cases I see of writers who are putting out formulaic books, the first few books in the series were often fresh and original and great to read, which probably made readers and publishers alike ask for more of the same.

Besides, after 7 years of sitting in front of the computer typing away, I'm really starting to get tired of it. I hate words. I'm moving on to something else.

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If you hate writing, believe that everything on the shelves is garbage and feel that most writers and publishers do not share your vision of what writing/publication should be, then I agree that you're in the wrong field. I wish you the best in whatever else you do.

Hi JollySanta,

I do realize it can be easy to misunderstand things said over line. I think what tripped you up this time, was when I used the word, "nonsense". I meant it as, "hey, stop being silly! You've had great success so far. Be proud of yourself." And I thought the "poking smilie" would reinforce that I was being playful.

Unfortunately, you did misunderstand me. Thus, i woke up to an attack that I did not deserve in the least. Please, next time- take a deep breath. Reread prior posts. If you had reread mine- you'd have seen how I'd written, "if this sounds harsh- I am only trying to encourage you." And if you are still unsure- take the time to write the person. Something like, " hey, I might be taking this the wrong way, but..." If you had done that with me, I quickly would have explained what I had really meant and feelings would have been spared.

I very easily could have turned the attack back on you. I'm a Rising Scorpio- and believe me- when angered, I could make Dennis Leary blush. But I think hurling insults while hiding behind computers is childish and cowardly. I knew if I did- I'd feel good for a few seconds. And then I'd feel like an idiot. So I took that deep breath and replied as calmly as I could. And I'm glad I took that deep breath.

Okay. lecture over.

About the writing thing- don't feel pressured either way. This is your life. Only you know what's right for you. If you are meant to be a writer- the passion will return. Or, maybe you are meant to be something else really great.

In all my prior posts, I was just trying to get across that one shouldn't quit writing because they feel discouraged. That would be the wrong reason. No one should feel bad about quitting writing (or anything else) if it's not right for them.

And please, don't compare your writing career to anyone else. Don't compare yourself to anybody else in anything. There's only one JollySanta. Understand what I'm saying?

Thank you for taking back your words. I accept. And now bygones can be bygones.

Again- best of luck in whatever you decide.

gypsyscarlett said:

Hi,

No. It wasn't directed towards you or anybody. I was just agreeing with Mab's observation.

Certainly, no offense was meant.

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None taken.

Mr. Anonymous said:

Mab-
What? Isn't a raft of writing skills and a published novel a great outcome from 7 years hard work!?

I'm not trying to put down the OP. What I am trying to do is empathize with him. Small presses have small print runs, limited distribution, etc. They are by no means a bad option. In fact, they are a GREAT option. But you have to be realistic. If a writer wants to reach as many people as possible, it may be disappointing, from that point of view, to have his novel published by a small press.

Does there have to be megabucks and fame too???

I don't need megabucks and fame, and I'm sure the OP doesn't either. What I'm sure we both would like, however, is for our writing to be a self-sustaining profession. There are plenty of great writers out there who are not rolling in the dough but manage to live well enough because of successful writing careers. Publication is a massive achievement for anyone of any age, but getting published by a small press simply won't fullfill that dream for you.

I just can't believe how we want it all... skills, craft, recognition...all achieved by yesterday!

Again, maybe it's because I'm young that it seems this way, but seven years is a long time. I think that was the OP's point, and I think that's why the title of this thread reads, "How long have you been failing..."

I think you're doing the OP a bit of an injustice by saying that. Seven years is seven years more patience than most people have.


Sorry if I sound harsh, but man, sometimes I think our generation (yes, I include me, most definitely) is the most impatient, and easily depressed ever.

I doubt it. Everyone, though they may not admit it, would probably have liked to have success, as you say, yesterday.
.

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Hi Anon,

I didn't mean to imply you were putting down the OP, so I'm sorry if I did. I guess I was just a little shocked at how people think 7 years is a long time to learn your craft. It takes that long to become a doctor...why not a writer?

I was also annoyed at how you would be disappointed if in the next 7 yrs you 'only' had a novel printed by a small press....when such an achievement far outweighs the handful of poems I've had published in small journals by my grand age of 25...perhaps I'm a little jealous of your ambition and potential

As for writing being self sustaining? Its a fine ambition to have, and I heartily hope you will achieve this, (and make a donation to a poor struggling poet...)but even fairly successful writers often require another source of income. I'm not knocking the fact you're aiming high.

And yeah, we probably all want some level of recognition/success ASAP, but I think patience and tenacity are pretty essential for a writer, and sometimes I wonder if our short-attention-span generation has these things. I don't mean YOU don't have them- how would I know? I'm going on myself and others I know. Its really good you have all these aims and ambitions, I was a bit too harshly worded with my other post, guess I'm just a bitter old crone who wants you whippersnappers off my lawn

As an actress I relish the fact that I am allowed to have some age and wisdom in the writing world, that in fact it is highly advised, and that honing your craft is considered a good thing. I feel way too old as an actress at 28, but I feel like a baby as an author.

Maybe JS you should get away from your computer for a while and go to some writing conferences and meet other authors. Aside from it being really fun and probably inspirational, it will also show you that authors come in all shapes and sizes and ages. It will show you that unlike with Disney, you don't have to be a mega star by 15. The great thing about a slow rise to the top is that you don't peak too early, you don't find yourself 50 and having the best years of your life behind you. Besides how boring to be young and famous, who isn't these days?

Writing for 7 years straight can get exhausting. Anything that you love will go sour if you do it too much. And maybe it's time to really explore the bookshelves, get away from the big displays at the front and find some interesting, maybe not big and famous, authors. If you would like a list of potential books, I am sure people here would be happy to contribute to it.

You may want to give up, but your reasons to me sound more like fatigue than a dwindling passion. You don't want to give up because writing isn't really your thing anymore, you might not have the chops for it, you would rather play the piano. No you want to give up because you are just exhausted from writing so much and because you are deflated by what you consider inferior product on the shelves.

I think you actually do love writing, but are just a bit overwhelmed at the moment. It doesn't hurt to take a break.

(btw, along with the "moron" thing, you have to be careful what you say about published authors. There are a fair few published authors on these boards, and to basically say "all published authors suck" could be taken the wrong way. I doubt anyone will be offended right now, it's obvious you are frustrated, but just as a word of warning.)

I didn't mean to imply you were putting down the OP, so I'm sorry if I did. I guess I was just a little shocked at how people think 7 years is a long time to learn your craft. It takes that long to become a doctor...why not a writer?

You make a good point. However, remember that if you put in 7 years to become a doctor, you're getting something very substantial out of it. A doctorate degree, for one. A stable source of income for the rest of your life for another.

Whereas a writer can go 7 years, become very good, but still lack the financial stability that a lot of other professions might afford.

I was also annoyed at how you would be disappointed if in the next 7 yrs you 'only' had a novel printed by a small press....when such an achievement far outweighs the handful of poems I've had published in small journals by my grand age of 25...perhaps I'm a little jealous of your ambition and potential

lol. I'm completely unpublished at the moment. Not even by a teeny weeny publisher/journal. So don't be too jealous.

As for writing being self sustaining? Its a fine ambition to have, and I heartily hope you will achieve this, (and make a donation to a poor struggling poet...)but even fairly successful writers often require another source of income. I'm not knocking the fact you're aiming high.

That's true, and I do want to do more in life than just write. I guess it's sort of a combination between wanting writing to be a self-sustaining profession if/when I need it to be, and wanting my work to be read by as many people as possible. It seems like, being published and having good, steady sales would be a sort of vindication for all the misery we go through searching for agents and publishers. lol.

And yeah, we probably all want some level of recognition/success ASAP, but I think patience and tenacity are pretty essential for a writer, and sometimes I wonder if our short-attention-span generation has these things. I don't mean YOU don't have them- how would I know? I'm going on myself and others I know. Its really good you have all these aims and ambitions, I was a bit too harshly worded with my other post, guess I'm just a bitter old crone who wants you whippersnappers off my lawn

lol, no worries. I guess I'll put it this way. I'm impatient but too stubborn to ever quit.

Mr. Anonymous said:

However, remember that if you put in 7 years to become a doctor, you're getting something very substantial out of it. A doctorate degree, for one. A stable source of income for the rest of your life for another.

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Does everyone who completes the seven years get a degree and a stable source of income?

I can't speak for medicine, but I was in graduate school, and I knew a guy who had been studying nine years for his PhD. There was no guarantee that his experiments would succeed and give him something good enough for publication, either (he might - just might - have gotten a pity PhD, but no real guarantee of that either).

I also heard that the record was a student in Stanford who had been studying for his PhD for fifteen years, and when the last in a long line of advisors requested further revisions to his dissertation, the student killed him with a hammer.

At least agents don't have to worry about that.

JollySanta said:

I seem to have lost my passion for writing because all I see on the shelves is garbage. Most publishers/writers just put out books to make money and I'm just not into that. Besides, after 7 years of sitting in front of the computer typing away, I'm really starting to get tired of it. I hate words. I'm moving on to something else.

"I also wanted to add another comment to the OP: I have a feeling if you really wanted to quit writing- you simply would. I gather you came here and posted that nonsense because you wanted us to tell you how stupid it would be to quit. So I'm gonna give ya another little poke"

I don't know if you think you're psychic or if you're an idiot, gypsy. I made this topic because I wanted to compare my success rate to other writers. If you really can read my thoughts right now, then you'd probably know that I think you're a moron.

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You think all published books are garbage. You hate that publishers run their business to make money (I thought that was the point of a business). You hate writing. Why are you even trying to establish a career in it?

As for calling someone who was only trying to help you a moron, I think maybe you should take a step back and try to show other people more respect. You'll get more respect in return.

Oh, and to your original question: I've been writing since I was able to do so and submitted my first story at twelve. I'm twenty-five now. I haven't been published at all, but I don't consider that failure. I needed that time and those experiences to improve, and really no matter what happens I'm going to keep writing and keep trying for publication as long as I can because that's what you do when you love something this much: You keep going. You can't ever acheive success if you stop trying. Are you sure, with the attitudes expressed above, that this is even what you want? I mean you didn't mention one thing that you actually like about writing or why you'd like to join the ranks of the authors you hate so much and to contribute to the success of the publishers you despise.

26 and you feel like a failure?

Do you not realize that ten years ago you were only 16? That's not any REAL life experience. What can you possibly have to say to the world? Maybe you should quit writing because seven years of writing is a pimple and a 26-year old "failure," is an oxymoron.

Also, I'm sorry if my post was harsh, but when you've been at writing and life a lot longer than it takes to order a burger and fries, it's insulting to hear someone who obviously must have talent say they're thinking of quitting because, well, they're the ripe old age of 26. Puleeze.

Wow,

Jolly is taking more flak than a WWII bomber pilot.

In terms of accomplishments and comparing yourself to others, that is an exercise in futility.

In a subjective media such as art, there are many many people more talented than you who will never have their art reach the same success as yours. Conversely, you will see people whose art is so abyssmally bad that you would think it was a joke, and those people move on to become best seller world renowned artists...

I'm in my 30s, took up writing seriously when I joined this site, and got my first paid publication in a major magazine 18 months later.

I belong to a local writers group that hosts all ages. I like to think that I can 'hold my own' with my talented group, then all of a sudden, this 17 year old whiz kid comes into our group and literally blew me away with his talent. I can easily say that this kid is probably now, a better writer than I will ever be.

So what does that prove? Does that prove that I should stop writing? He's already written 2 - 3 novels and i've yet to start on my first one. Should I not even bother?

Comparing yourself to others in an 'art' is the worst thing you can do. As an artist, we must do our art. We have no choice. If you are writing for fame and fortune, then you will not last in this game. PERIOD. It has to be a labor of love because you will be force to endure what other mere mortals can not.

I suspect that you really are an artist, that you do love writing. Writing a book is no 'simple' accomplishment. But just because you've written the great American novel does not mean that a super model carrying a suitcase full of cash isn't going to show up at your door, throw herself at you, while a publisher presents a multi-year multi novel contract.

I understand your frustration. As I understand it, getting published isn't so much a test of skill as it is a test of persistance.

Don't get me wrong, you're writing has to be at a certain 'level'. But even still, once it is there, you've got to be able to weather the storms. Most successful authors had a few years worth of rejections to slough through.

Last item I will say, is that you probably have not hit your peak yet. Put another way, ten years from now do you think you will be a better writer?

Keep writing, and learning.

Well, that is my two cents.

good luck

Mel...

Brett Favre is 39 and playing football...

MelancholyMan said:

I would say I know how you feel, except I'm 42 and have fewer publishing credits than you do. Oh, and I started this game when you were 16.

Go ahead and quit if you think you have to, but when someone who is 26 says they're getting too old I just have to laugh. This isn't football. Or soccer. It's sitting on your a$$ in front of a keyboard. How can you be too old for that? And why give up now? If you've learned how to write solid you'd be throwing away everything you've learned.

-MM

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Yeah, 26 is waaaaay too old to be a writer. (Sorry, at 45 and struggling, I have to laugh!)

A break is good. You'll be refreshed and then come back with a renewed spirit. I apologize for my flak, and hope you're back at it when you're feeling stronger.

JollySanta said:

Really? Do you know where I can find an article about that?

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I looked it up on the web, and I was wrong about the date. The student hadn't been trying to earn a degree for 15 years.

He had been trying to get one for 19 years. Here's another article about the murder.

I mentioned this to one of my professors once and he said, "That's nothing. I heard of a student who shot his whole committee."

Does everyone who completes the seven years get a degree and a stable source of income?
Well, it depends. For instance, Law is a sure thing. Three years and you're done. Same with med school, I believe.

In other subjects, however, like you said, you need to write a dissertation after completing all the required courses.

In my understanding, if for whatever reason, you're unable to manage that, they'll award you a Masters Degree instead (My dad works with a guy who fulfilled all his P.H.D. requirements but never wrote his dissertation, so he has a Masters of Sciences...)

In terms of the humanities, dissertations are probably a little easier and more predictable. Sciences though, I'm sure can be pretty tough.

The funny thing about getting a PhD in Science, is that you must 'contribute' and 'expand' the science in which you are getting the PhD.

In short, you must discover something 'new'. So, as we progress, it gets harder and harder to get a PhD because a lot of that easy fruit has been picked

Kinda like the Olympics, each generation is faster than the next. but in Science, each generation has it 'harder' than the one before (in terms of getting a PhD).

Mel...

I heard some talks back then. That an author, named Steven Erikson, had to wait for ten years to get his series, Malazan Book of the Fallen, to be published. And the guy's like 60 right now.

blacbird said:

Since the dinosaurs died.

No publications, Nada. Zip. Zero.

Thirty years.

Feel better now?

caw

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Yeah, pretty much the same here, blac.

The odds against ever getting published at all, good manuscript or not, are immense. But I've said it before and I'll keep on saying it: if you quit, the odds of getting published are exactly zero.