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Where do you think the failure point is?
- Thread starter Ganymede
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The purpose of this thread
I created this thread for 2 purposes:
1. To logically and mathematically examine the submission statistics and evaluate where there might be a breakdown in the process, if any. Including finding ways to improve the rate of return on my queries.
2. To provide concrete, actual figures for others who are also submitting their work -- so they can see how their experiences relate to mine.
"Failure point" was not meant in reference to giving up, or personal shortcomings. I never implied that, ever.
Just to make sure this is crystal clear:
Failure point refers to the QUERIES.
Why a query is or is not working.
If it brings in a high enough percentage for partials or fulls, then the query is working.
If it does not yield a high enough percentage of requests, then it is not working.
The logical thing to do when that appears to be the case, is to:
--Re-evaulate the effectiveness of the query. What could be done to improve it? Have people read it, change an element, then send it out and compare the results to the original letter.
--Re-evaluate the mailing list. What agents are the best choices for the manuscript? This sounds like a no-brainer for people that write genre, but if you write cross-genre, certain types of non-fiction, or anything that breaks with current trends, finding the right list of agents to mail to is trickier. A great query to the wrong agents will generate rejections.
--Some other, undetermined issue.
I appreciate everyone's energy and taking the time to issue comments. This a lesson for me -- learning to write posts more clearly, since apparently I was not doing that earlier.
I created this thread for 2 purposes:
1. To logically and mathematically examine the submission statistics and evaluate where there might be a breakdown in the process, if any. Including finding ways to improve the rate of return on my queries.
2. To provide concrete, actual figures for others who are also submitting their work -- so they can see how their experiences relate to mine.
"Failure point" was not meant in reference to giving up, or personal shortcomings. I never implied that, ever.
Just to make sure this is crystal clear:
Failure point refers to the QUERIES.
Why a query is or is not working.If it brings in a high enough percentage for partials or fulls, then the query is working.
If it does not yield a high enough percentage of requests, then it is not working.
The logical thing to do when that appears to be the case, is to:
--Re-evaulate the effectiveness of the query. What could be done to improve it? Have people read it, change an element, then send it out and compare the results to the original letter.
--Re-evaluate the mailing list. What agents are the best choices for the manuscript? This sounds like a no-brainer for people that write genre, but if you write cross-genre, certain types of non-fiction, or anything that breaks with current trends, finding the right list of agents to mail to is trickier. A great query to the wrong agents will generate rejections.
--Some other, undetermined issue.
I appreciate everyone's energy and taking the time to issue comments. This a lesson for me -- learning to write posts more clearly, since apparently I was not doing that earlier.
*Checks to see if I'm posting in Esperanto or something*
*headdesk*
Nevermind. (Insert joke about reaching failure point.)
Thanks again to the appropriate posters.
I'll post updated stats soon for anyone who's interested.
*headdesk*
Nevermind. (Insert joke about reaching failure point.)
Thanks again to the appropriate posters.
I'll post updated stats soon for anyone who's interested.
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Cross-genre is very hard to market to agents, yes. You might actually avoid referring to your book as cross genre, as I've heard that instead of pulling in two small audiences to form a big pool of readers, you're actually only getting the sliver of both that happen to read both genres (boy, did that make sense? wordy!).
And when in doubt, query anyone that asks for 'commercial fiction' and let them figure out the rest.
And when in doubt, query anyone that asks for 'commercial fiction' and let them figure out the rest.
It makes a lot of sense, Irysangel.
It's a risk. Agents and publishers want books with a high probability of selling well to their customer base. Cross-genre can seem too scary, I imagine. And it's true -- they're in it to operate a business, not run an orphanage for books, even if they feel differently about it on a personal level. I don't blame them too much. Everyone's got to pay the bills.
I took your advice about just calling it "fiction" on the most recent batch of queries I'm waiting to hear back on. These are snail mail queries this time, so it's going to take a while, but so far one partial request, so hey. We'll see what happens when agents return from the beach and dump the kids back into school.
Twizzle's suggestion of bookclub fiction seems sensible, too, so I think I may try that in the next sendout. I wasn't too sure of the term at first, but I've thought it over a good bit and it does describe the market well.
It's a risk. Agents and publishers want books with a high probability of selling well to their customer base. Cross-genre can seem too scary, I imagine. And it's true -- they're in it to operate a business, not run an orphanage for books, even if they feel differently about it on a personal level. I don't blame them too much. Everyone's got to pay the bills.
I took your advice about just calling it "fiction" on the most recent batch of queries I'm waiting to hear back on. These are snail mail queries this time, so it's going to take a while, but so far one partial request, so hey.
We'll see what happens when agents return from the beach and dump the kids back into school. Twizzle's suggestion of bookclub fiction seems sensible, too, so I think I may try that in the next sendout. I wasn't too sure of the term at first, but I've thought it over a good bit and it does describe the market well.
Last edited:
Um,
I think its very early days,
I first queried every australian agent a year ago and got rejected by every single one (about 20).
I then spent a year re-writing, perfecting the query, building a biog in writing contests and articles in mags and online, re-writing the MS, paid an editor to clean up the first three chapters and did, well...
ehem,
about 200 or so query emails... (I was in a what the hell kind of mood).
About half rejected me, 12 requests for fulls and partials, one definate offer and one maybe. the definate offer has agreed to wait till my other fulls and partials have answered before I decide. All in less than a month. I realise now that many other writers to a few wait then a few more, with hindsight this is smart. But I did spend a lot of time on Query mark two, got profressional feedback before pitching. so it wasn't a complete shot in the dark.
The important thing is research querys thoroughly and write one sit on it, read it again and hone it down. make sure ur hook line is smokin', your one to two paragraph story summary is engaging, mention word count genre, willingness to edit, cull and change, and thank them for their time, all in under one page...
good luck
I think its very early days,
I first queried every australian agent a year ago and got rejected by every single one (about 20).
I then spent a year re-writing, perfecting the query, building a biog in writing contests and articles in mags and online, re-writing the MS, paid an editor to clean up the first three chapters and did, well...
ehem,
about 200 or so query emails... (I was in a what the hell kind of mood).
About half rejected me, 12 requests for fulls and partials, one definate offer and one maybe. the definate offer has agreed to wait till my other fulls and partials have answered before I decide. All in less than a month. I realise now that many other writers to a few wait then a few more, with hindsight this is smart. But I did spend a lot of time on Query mark two, got profressional feedback before pitching. so it wasn't a complete shot in the dark.
The important thing is research querys thoroughly and write one sit on it, read it again and hone it down. make sure ur hook line is smokin', your one to two paragraph story summary is engaging, mention word count genre, willingness to edit, cull and change, and thank them for their time, all in under one page...
good luck
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My stats seem to be pretty close to yours. I've spent time in query hell over the past month and I think I've finally got a letter I'm happy with. Most of the rejections on my stats come from earlier versions of my letter. Most of the pending ones are with the new improved letter, so we'll see how that goes. I'm getting the idea that a lot of agents are on vacation right now so it's a waiting game.
Stats:
Queries sent: 25
Partials requested: 3
Partials rejected: 1
Partials pending: 2
Queries rejected: 13
Queries pending: 10
Stats:
Queries sent: 25
Partials requested: 3
Partials rejected: 1
Partials pending: 2
Queries rejected: 13
Queries pending: 10
No way. I'm coming back. Think of the PR hook! "Vampire pens novel. Midnight signings planned. Um, no live morning shows, but maybe Oprah would consider an evening taping."
Mat:
You've got guts. It's great that you got positive responses and a possible agent from that. 200? Wow. I don't know about a batch that large, but I think I'm ready now to roll out a bigger batch the next time around.
jamesn65:
Yeah, that seems to be the consensus of a lot of folks on this board -- that summer's slowed everything way down. I bet we'll see things pick up in a couple of weeks. I may end up in query hell, too. But I came up with a new, improved letter that I'll test in the marketplace and see what happens.
New stats, for the folks playing along at home:
Timeframe: approximately 2 1/2 months
Total queries submitted to date: 41
Requests for partials: 3
Partials rejected: 2
Partials pending: 1
Queries rejected: 18
Total queries pending: 20
Pending queries that have aged over 1 week: all
Pending queries aged less than 1 week: none
Not a lot of news -- but this is a bit of apples to oranges because most of the new queries were snail, not email. So the 1 week thing isn't as applicable, since snail mail will automatically have a longer turnaround time.
Lots of pending queries, but I'm not surprised.
I'll roll out the new query after August and the Olympics are over.
You've got guts. It's great that you got positive responses and a possible agent from that. 200? Wow. I don't know about a batch that large, but I think I'm ready now to roll out a bigger batch the next time around.
jamesn65:
Yeah, that seems to be the consensus of a lot of folks on this board -- that summer's slowed everything way down. I bet we'll see things pick up in a couple of weeks. I may end up in query hell, too. But I came up with a new, improved letter that I'll test in the marketplace and see what happens.
New stats, for the folks playing along at home:
Timeframe: approximately 2 1/2 months
Total queries submitted to date: 41
Requests for partials: 3
Partials rejected: 2
Partials pending: 1
Queries rejected: 18
Total queries pending: 20
Pending queries that have aged over 1 week: all
Pending queries aged less than 1 week: none
Not a lot of news -- but this is a bit of apples to oranges because most of the new queries were snail, not email. So the 1 week thing isn't as applicable, since snail mail will automatically have a longer turnaround time.
Lots of pending queries, but I'm not surprised.
I'll roll out the new query after August and the Olympics are over.
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