Targeting Specific Actors

zeprosnepsid said:

Oh NMS, we've been disagreeing on this board long enough, and I've mentioned it enough times, that you should know I'm female, not male.

But I did recommend not lying first. But it is just the way things work in this town. It's like constantly getting hit on when you go for interviews when you are female. But every Producer I've met, and every boss I've ever had were always 'stretching the truth' to get what they wanted done. You have to be crafty. Have you read Down and Dirty Pictures? While not 'lying' per se, the story of Bullworth is nothing short of amazing. No one at the studio ever actually ever greenlit that movie. But Beatty pulled it off, like he always does.

I used to be an online journalist for a website owned by a filmmaker, I don't really want to give away too much info on who I am (scary internet!) so let's say Robert Rodriguez as a stand in. I was waiting in line for a big screening with other journalists and it looked like none of us were going to get in (I didn't get in, it turned out). But another guy, who worked for the same site, but wrote about different things, waltzed right past me, and I was like 'how did you get in?' What he did, instead of saying he wrote for Robert Rodriguez's website, he said he was like his assistant and representing Troublemaker Studios (RR's studio) and all of this stuff. And he got ushered right in! It's not entirely a lie, he did work for Rodriguez (or the similar director he's standing in for), even though he had never met him, but certainly he wasn't telling the truth. But he got the story, and I didn't.

My last boss, who is a Producer, got her first Hollywood job - film buyer for a big mini major - by completely lying on her application. She had never worked in Hollywood before. And she's now a Producer, and I'm not! I'm not on the level of a film buyer either and I've been working for years.

Every experience I've had in Hollywood has been like this!

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Zepro, I've had a great many experiences in Hollywood with liars and cheaters but I have to tell you that I have also had experiences with people who are neither and all in all, I much prefer to work with the latter than the former and I would much prefer to be known within this business, as someone who is the latter, rather than the former.

Because people who will lie and cheat and steal and do and say anything to succeed in this business (or any other) may ultimately succeed -- but in the end, they'll be successful liars, cheats and thieves.

And yes, our business is full of those kind of people.

But it is certainly not universal nor, in my opinion, is it a kind of behavior that we should be advising others to emulate.

NMS

When I was at ICM, someone sent in a script for Mel, which we passed on. I sent the writer a letter.

Sometime much later, I got a call from a good friend of mine (a manager) who said, "Dude, you've lost your mind. I read this script on your recommendation and it sucks!" I never recommended a script to him, so I was confused. He said he had a letter from me praising the script. He faxed it over. It seems the writer took the rejection letter and doctored it with something flowery and positive. It even implied that Mel was interested in the project.

I pulled up my records on the script and found our copy of the original letter. I sent both to legal affairs and within two hours, this writer had a "cease & desist" letter at his front door. And was persona non grata at the agency.

Another ditty involved a rather enigmatic manager with a slight accent. He represented quite a few new writers around town - without any luck. Everone knew this manager but when people started talking, it seemed that no one had ever met him. Water cooler onversations often revolved around his rather vague accent, which some thought German, some thought British and others thought Southern.

In the end, it was revealed that this manager was actually a struggling screenwriter who created another persona in order to hock his own scripts. To make the ruse believable, he put himself in the "Hollywood Creative Directory," which led to other scribes contacting him - and his representing them. Of course, when his clients learned the truth, they were heartbroken and felt like much of their time had been wasted.

After he came out of the closet, he wrote about the experience for Los Angeles magazine, perhaps hoping the story would spark Hollywood interest. To this day, he has yet to sell a script. And his ruse remains a forgotten anecdote - and a failed attempt at success.

I have MANY stories of people lying to get ahead and it backfiring on them. In fact, the tactic probably fails far more often than it succeeds.

The problem with lying is that Hollywood is a VERY small town and people constantly exchange information and gossip. A liar is bound to get caught.

I offer up these two stories as a cautionary tale.

I think the point is though, calling a Production company and pretending you're someone else just to get a piece of information is never going to ruin your career. Those people get a millions calls a day and they will not remember your voice. It's not like they're going to put you through to pitch the script that minute. You're just trying to get the name of who to send it to.


The people creative exec is talking about failed because they were stupid =)

But for every story you have, I have another story. Bryan Singer hired all those actors for Usual Suspects and told them how much he'd pay them before he had any money (they didn't know that) and then went to all these investors and said these actors have signed on and that's how they ended up investing in the movie. Without that little lie, we wouldn't have The Usual Suspects.

But getting through in Hollywood is less about flat out lying, but more about exaggeration.

To get the big interviews for my Documentary, I told people that we were 'scheduling' with other big people (which was an 'exaggeration' because they had said they would get back to me, not that they would do the interview necessarily) to get them. If they called around and found out we weren't, then fine, we lost that game. But they wouldn't have done the interview if they didn't think we were interviewing other biggies anyway, so we didn't actually lose anything. And we did get some big interviews. And by saying 'scheduling' we weren't lying so bad as to get blackballed. If they did call around, they'd find that we had talked to the assistants of these other people. That's what the whole industry is about.

I'm not advocating lying necessarily. I'm just saying that among smart people, who exaggerate or stretch the truth, it's proven amazingly effective.

Oh wait, I thought of another, because there are a million. To make Clerks, on credit cards, Kevin Smith had to get 30k of credit, which he wasn't really eligible for being a video store clerk. But he'd fill out the applications and say he was the manager of the video store, making 50k or more. And since he was the only one who worked there, when the credit card companies would call the work number to confirm he'd be like 'oh yeah, he makes that much' and that's how he got the credit. He probably could have gone to jail for that, but whatever, it worked out....

We like to think good work will stand on its own, but that's just not necessarily the case. The Usual Suspects and Clerks are two of the reasons I got into film in the first place, and they wouldn't have ever gotten made just because they were good. Sometimes you need more than that.

As a side note, the story about the guy who submitted with a fake letter from you (which really is stupid), still has a chance to make it. He can just start submitting under a pen name, it's not like you ever saw his face. He could get a PO Box with another address and you'd never know. By the time you find out his real name/address - it would just be to pay him. But from the sound of it his writing is so poor is almost doesn't matter anyway.

I don't buy the 'this town is small' stuff. The town is huge. Agents know each other, but how many Post Production people do they know? How many Production company executives do Cinematographers know? And the turnover is so high - you aren't at that agency anymore right? And you meet sooooo many people. I can't remember the names of the PAs who worked for me this year. This town is pretty big.

I'm not saying one should or shouldn't lie. This isn't Sunday school and people can make their own decisions.

But people like to offer up the glorification of it - like the Bryan Singers and the Kevin Smiths. The truth is that this industry has far more failures than it has successes, so it's probable that most lies do not end up with happy endings. However, I'm all about people writing their own stories. Each person charts their own course in, out or around the business. But it is one degree of separation. A simple phone call or e-mail clarifies an awful lot. I'm amazed at how often I say to a co-worker or friend, "Does this person think we don't talk? Does he think we don't know anybody? Is he an idiot?"

As for Hollywood being a big town. I guess it's all about perspective.

I've always been taught if you see Hollywood as a big town, you think small.

It's true that I'm not at that agency anymore, but I still know everyone there and constantly meet new employees, who become allies.

As for turnover, it works to make for a smaller business not a bigger one. I know hundreds of co-workers who have moved on to other agencies, companies, studios and have introduced me to their new co-workers, giving me access to places I hadn't previously been. I'm now at WMA, where I'm meeting new people and connecting with new places.

While it's true that the cagey writer could change his name and script title, my world is very small. He wouldn't be the first to make that unsuccessful attempt. If he chose to change his avocation to cinematography, he'd be able to slip by, since that's not my world. But it's still a small town and only takes a phone call.

Speaking of which, when I was looking to hire a DP for my documentary, I had a name at the top of my list. He was the DP on two docs that I liked a lot (GO, TIGERS! and AMARGOSA). Those films were a nice hybrid of the one I wanted to make, and I thought he was very talented. (He won an Emmy for the latter.) I came to discover that my assistant (at the time) was friendly with him. She put me in touch and, in the end, he shot my film. One degree of separation.

Hollywood is the smallest big town in America.

creativexec said:

I'm not saying one should or shouldn't lie. This isn't Sunday school and people can make their own decisions.

But people like to offer up the glorification of it - like the Bryan Singers and the Kevin Smiths. The truth is that this industry has far more failures than it has successes, so it's probable that most lies do not end up with happy endings. However, I'm all about people writing their own stories. Each person charts their own course in, out or around the business. But it is one degree of separation. A simple phone call or e-mail clarifies an awful lot. I'm amazed at how often I say to a co-worker or friend, "Does this person think we don't talk? Does he think we don't know anybody? Is he an idiot?"

As for Hollywood being a big town. I guess it's all about perspective.

I've always been taught if you see Hollywood as a big town, you think small.

It's true that I'm not at that agency anymore, but I still know everyone there and constantly meet new employees, who become allies.

As for turnover, it works to make for a smaller business not a bigger one. I know hundreds of co-workers who have moved on to other agencies, companies, studios and have introduced me to their new co-workers, giving me access to places I hadn't previously been. I'm now at WMA, where I'm meeting new people and connecting with new places.

While it's true that the cagey writer could change his name and script title, my world is very small. He wouldn't be the first to make that unsuccessful attempt. If he chose to change his avocation to cinematography, he'd be able to slip by, since that's not my world. But it's still a small town and only takes a phone call.

Speaking of which, when I was looking to hire a DP for my documentary, I had a name at the top of my list. He was the DP on two docs that I liked a lot (GO, TIGERS! and AMARGOSA). Those films were a nice hybrid of the one I wanted to make, and I thought he was very talented. (He won an Emmy for the latter.) I came to discover that my assistant (at the time) was friendly with him. She put me in touch and, in the end, he shot my film. One degree of separation.

Hollywood is the smallest big town in America.

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And I just have to add my few cents to the above -- we all write stories, and one of the stories that everybody likes is how the little clever guy outwits the bigshots and comes out ahead.

Everybody loves those stories -- so everybody loves, for instance, the story about how Spielberg managed to talk his way onto the lot at Universal and got himself an empty office and pretended to be a Junior Exec for a summer.

Great story -- and no doubt a true story.

And people love all of those stories of people who try crazy stunts to get their scripts read that somehow come off and they get read and get sold and get made and they end up with successful careers.

And they love to hear stories about guys like Kevin Smith who lie to their credit card company and borrow more money than they can afford and end up with a successful film and they're off to Hollywood.

But nobody wants to hear about all of the people who do these things and end up screwed, because ninety-nine times out of a hundred, that's what happens when people try crazy stunts like that.

They get screwed.

So, as I said -- like driving drunk. You can do it once -- hey, got away with it. Nothing happened. Worked great.

Right. And most of the time, that's how it works.

And you can lie once -- or once in awhile and chances are, you'll get away with it.

Then again, there are people who drive drunk once -- and die. First time.

And it may also be that the first time you try lying to somebody, it's going to be somebody who will remember your voice when you call back being yourself.

And then you are screwed.

Obviously, if you never lie, there are still a thousand other things that you have to worry about that might potentially wreck you on the rocks.

Just not that.

Even in matters of negotiation and deal-making, where there's significant amount of what you might call "bluffing" -- of making the other side believe that your position is stronger than it is -- you always run into the same sort of problem. Sure, you can bluff -- you can lie. You can claim to have more money, you can claim to have someone attached, you can claim that some other studio is interested.

And they can lie too. But at a certain point, somebody may very call somebody else's bluff. And if, in the course of your bluffing you've promised something and can't deliver (which has been known to happen) -if you claim to own the rights, but don't have them, claim to have a star attached, but he isn't attached, claim to have foreign financing, only you really were counting on the domestic financing to lock in the foreign financing and then it turns out that the foreign financing wasn't really there in the first place - then you are, just like the guy who lies on the phone -- screwed.

NMS

Either way, this is a pretty silly thing to argue about =)

People are going to do or not do whatever they want. And I think we've given everyone a primer on lying and not lying and we can just leave it at that.

I've tried every other way to get my screenplay read so why not contact the actor who I want in it right? cant hurt? In saying this, I have researched on the net for hours trying to find out who this actors Agent / manager is and guess what? came up with nothing...I guess I need imdbpro sept I have no credit card and to sign up for the free trial requires a credit card...asswipes... If anyone has imdbpro and would be willing to look up some contact info, I would be very greatful and give you a "thanku" credit on my wonderful movie...lol

Thankyou...

heatgirl said:

I've tried every other way to get my screenplay read so why not contact the actor who I want in it right? cant hurt? In saying this, I have researched on the net for hours trying to find out who this actors Agent / manager is and guess what? came up with nothing...I guess I need imdbpro sept I have no credit card and to sign up for the free trial requires a credit card...asswipes... If anyone has imdbpro and would be willing to look up some contact info, I would be very greatful and give you a "thanku" credit on my wonderful movie...lol

Thankyou...

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If you want an actor's agent information all you have to do is call up SAG -- the Screen Actor's Guild and ask for agent contact information and give them the name of the actor and they will give you the agent contact information.

I'm not sure about manager information -- they may give that as well. Not sure.

That being said -- if the actor in question is a star, going through his/her agent is generally not a fruitful way to get your screenplay into the hands of the actor in question.

As a rule, the first question that the agent (or really, the agent's assistant) will ask is -- "Is the project set up?"

In other words -- is this a script that actually has real money and a real offer behind it -- as opposed to somebody -- either a writer or a producer who is looking to use the actor as a way of getting the project set up by attaching the actor.

Like you are obviously trying to do.

Not that actors won't do that and don't do that -- it's just that agents don't really like it when their clients do it and so will always do their best to head off scripts with no money attached getting to their clients.

Agents and "passion projects" just don't mix.

You might consider seeing if you can find a copy of the Hollywood Creative Directory (check your local library) and see if the actor in question has his own development company. That is, many actors have a studio deal in which a studio pays an actor to set up a little company for the purpose of looking for and developing projects for the star to be in -- and if you can submit your script to that company (if there is one) that might be a more fruitful approach to getting it in the hands of the actor in question.

NMS

Stars' agents will want you to make an offer immediately before they will let their star anywhere near your script. Making an offer means you're a producer, not a writer, and only do it if you can make it work!!! Prodcos are better as NMS says but you really need to build a relationship with one or two or several before they will take you seriously. It takes time, and probably they need to pass on two or three scripts before they'll go for the one they want. It's a long game...you could get lucky first time, but I very much doubt it. Unless there is a strong referral from someone that means something to the agent, prodco or manager, I basically think you're going to find it extremely tough.

Everyone thinks they've written something that's perfect for George Clooney, Whoopi G, etc etc but in reality you probably haven't. Just write the best script you can and query like crazy. Sending it to Whoopi might work, but that's like me saying that I could be a rock star.

First, thankyou for your replies.
Nmstevens: I didn't think of calling SAG, thankyou for this information.

Hillgate: The star I want is not a star star, meaning if I told you thier name you would say "who?"...Believe me, it would be silly to try and contact someone like Cameron Diaz in hopes she would do my film! I wouldn't even try! That's why I thought it would be a little easier because this actor is not well known and has only been in 2 movies I think and a few shows.

I also looked them up on IMDB and they are not in any upcoming movies.

Anyway, thanks again for your replies, you helped me out

May I ask a serious question? How do you expect attaching (or even interesting) an actor who is not a "star" going to be a good thing? If he/she has few credits and doesn't even have a pending production or attached credit...then what will this person be able to do for you?

Noah Body said:

May I ask a serious question? How do you expect attaching (or even interesting) an actor who is not a "star" going to be a good thing? If he/she has few credits and doesn't even have a pending production or attached credit...then what will this person be able to do for you?

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Maybe nothing, maybe something, maybe a producer will have worked with them before or even have heard about them and think "Yeah they fit with this". Who knows, anything could happen. Obviously I'm not going to get money thrown at me for having this actor but It couldn't hurt to try.

I'm sorry, I see you're located in Australia. Are you talking about breaking into the Oz film marketplace, or the American one?

heatgirl said:

First, thankyou for your replies.
Nmstevens: I didn't think of calling SAG, thankyou for this information.

Hillgate: The star I want is not a star star, meaning if I told you thier name you would say "who?"...Believe me, it would be silly to try and contact someone like Cameron Diaz in hopes she would do my film! I wouldn't even try! That's why I thought it would be a little easier because this actor is not well known and has only been in 2 movies I think and a few shows.

I also looked them up on IMDB and they are not in any upcoming movies.

Anyway, thanks again for your replies, you helped me out

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Good call - going for someone 'about to pop' is better than going for someone who's popped, to parlay like the good folk in the City of Angels.

Noah Body said:

I'm sorry, I see you're located in Australia. Are you talking about breaking into the Oz film marketplace, or the American one?

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The film industry in Australia is rather shithouse, I wouldn't even bother, there's nothing here, no agents, no money, nothing.

Hilgate: Yeah I found out the actor is with William Morris so imma try! thanks!

heatgirl said:

The film industry in Australia is rather shithouse, I wouldn't even bother, there's nothing here, no agents, no money, nothing.

Hilgate: Yeah I found out the actor is with William Morris so imma try! thanks!

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A word of caution on the subject of attachments.

Obviously, if you're not making any progress on moving your script ahead, I'm not going to say that you shouldn't try to get something going by attaching somebody.

*However* -- you need to be careful because attachments come in two varieties.

There are balloons and there is ballast.

The "balloon" kind of attachment lifts your project up toward getting greenlit.

Attach an A-list actor or director, or source of financing -- up it goes.

On the other hand, attach a producer who doesn't bring any financing, or a director who doesn't get it made -- they are a drag on the project. A producer of that sort means extra money that somebody is going to have to pay out further down the line. An attached director with no name value means that they won't be able to attach a director that *has* name value that might potentially help the project further down the line.

These attachments are "ballast." They weigh the project down. Sometimes, attachments like these can weigh a project down to such an extent that they never get off the ground.

I remember a number of years ago, when I was working at a development company in NY, that we optioned a very good science fiction project by a writer who later went on to work on some rather successful stuff.

And we couldn't get it set up. Nobody would touch it. And ultimately, we put it into turn-around. That is, we let the option lapse. It went back to the writer.

At which point, one of the companies that we'd taken it to and who'd passed on it, promptly turned around and bought it for big money.

It wasn't that they didn't want the project -- they just didn't want "us" -- that is, they didn't want to be in business with our company.

"We," as it turned out -- were ballast. Our attachment to the project was keeping it from getting sold.

Attaching an actor with limited star value in a starring role may sound like a great idea -- and it may especially sound like a great idea to an actor who has had very few starring roles and might be willing to roll the dice at the chance of getting a starring role if he likes the part. After all -- it doesn't cost him anything.

But if you move forward and manage to find somebody who wants to make the movie and, oh by the way, Actor X that has no name value is attached to play the lead -- that can be a real problem.

Because star casting -- getting someone whose name, in Hollywood terms "means something" can be the difference between a movie getting financing or not.

And actors' names are tossed around and discussed in exactly those terms. Does his name "mean anything" in foreign? That is -- can we sell the movie overseas on the strength of this or that actor being in our movie? No? Then forget about it. He's out.

Scripts sell, often, for hundreds of thousands of dollars. Movies cost millions of dollars. The decision to buy scripts and to make movies are, first -- marketing decisions.

So right now, you've finished your script and you have entered that phase -- the marketing phase. And you need to be very careful about not confusing an aesthetic decision (that is, this actor would be "good" in the part, or "good" in the movie) with a marketing decision -- will this or that "attachment" increase the chances of the script being sold and the movie being made.

NMS

nmstevens: Thanks for telling me this, it actually makes sense what you're saying. I'll think about it a little while longer and see what I'm going to do.

You're very helpful you know : )

MiladyDaniel said:

I've written a cool little fantasy script with a character that would be perfect for Whoopi Goldberg. Since she's a producer as well as actor, could I send it to her and how on Earth would I find an address?

BTW, I'm new here but I've been writing scripts for awhile.

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Hi MiladyD and welcome., My advice to to you: GET REAL and get your expectations right. Everyone has to start somewhere, and I doubt that you're going to be able to start with Whoopi (or anyone else on her level).

Start working with other people.

Cheers,
Cassie

ok crazy question here.... lets say I targeted an actor, and without them (all the people I spoke on the phone with) saying we like your stuff they all strongly recommended I seek representation and submit my stuff to a specific person..... how does a newby get representation to break into the circle?