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Thread: Preditors & Editors Lawsuit

  1. #301
    practical experience, FTW GeoffNelder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowstorm View Post
    I wonder if they'll keep this "victory" off their website so prospective clients won't see not everyone is happy with PA.
    My guess is that they're waiting for their lawyers to come up with a form of words so they can maximise their gloat impact without risking a rebound litigation.


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  2. #302
    Jenna's Cabana Boy Sparhawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobJ View Post
    There still seems to be some confusion. From some of the posts it sounds as though people think this was PA vs P&E. Dave, as I mentioned in my previous post, you weren't up against PA, were you? And it wasn't P&E either, was it? According to various other web sites, this was specifically brought by Victor Cretella, not PA, against Dave Kuzminski, not P&E, for defamatory and untrue statements made by Dave about Victor in the Absolute Write forums, and in emails sent and published in the forums. The defamatory statements involved accusations of attempted extortion and unethical methods. That's what the case and the ruling are about, I believe.

    No doubt Dave will clarify.

    Cheers,
    Rob
    Got it. Read the other links to the lawsuit. I still think it blows though. PA is already using this as a victory toot based on th eE-mial they sent out that's posted on another thread.

    Hang in there Dave, I'll be contributing to the P&E fund.
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  3. #303
    Terri Coop has been known to write circlexranch's Avatar
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    Attention AW!

    Don't let what has happened get you down. Virginia hasn't filed all the jury forms and other docs yet, they will give us more information.

    An appeal and other post-trial motions are the smart thing to do. However, this is a highly technical field and Dave REALLY needs the assistance of an attorney, at least for a consult on how to preserve all of his rights.

    So, folks, now is the time to donate to the legal defense fund. Even a dollar or two will help! An appeal will require a transcript and they are not cheap. So, dig in folks and help out an individual and an organization that has saved so many of us from PA.
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  4. #304
    Terri Coop has been known to write circlexranch's Avatar
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    PA is really on the sidelines in this - which is why you may not see much brouhaha about it on their website. It's not about THEM, per say.
    This is absolutely correct. PA won NOTHING, they were not a party to the suit. I read all the case law Vic referenced in his briefs and believe I know what happened. Vic is not stupid and chose his forum well. That's all I will say in public without a transcript in front of me.

    Just remember folks, PA won nothing. . . . .
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  5. #305
    Jenna's Cabana Boy Sparhawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by circlexranch View Post
    Attention AW!

    Don't let what has happened get you down. Virginia hasn't filed all the jury forms and other docs yet, they will give us more information.

    An appeal and other post-trial motions are the smart thing to do. However, this is a highly technical field and Dave REALLY needs the assistance of an attorney, at least for a consult on how to preserve all of his rights.

    So, folks, now is the time to donate to the legal defense fund. Even a dollar or two will help! An appeal will require a transcript and they are not cheap. So, dig in folks and help out an individual and an organization that has saved so many of us from PA.
    AMEN... Dave, I don't have alot, but I just sent some dough your way. I haven't forgotten how P&E helped me when PA filed that fraudulent harassment suit against me.
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  6. #306
    It's hard being green ChunkyC's Avatar
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    I'm so sorry to hear about this setback, Dave. Good luck on the appeal.
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  7. #307
    Quote Originally Posted by circlexranch View Post
    An appeal and other post-trial motions are the smart thing to do. However, this is a highly technical field and Dave REALLY needs the assistance of an attorney, at least for a consult on how to preserve all of his rights.
    Quoted for truth. Dave, if you don't have an attorney already, PLEASE get one now. The justice system isn't about justice. It's about dispute resolution. An attorney will help you navigate the land mines in your appeal so you CAN get justice. If you haven't checked into Volunteer Lawyers for the Arts and other similar organizations, please do so. Good luck!
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  8. #308
    ... Sakamonda's Avatar
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    Did Dave have attorney representation during the trial?

    Not knowing the facts of the case, I can't comment whether this is a fair outcome or not. But I do know that in civil defamation cases, the burden of proof is on the defendant to show that a) the statements made were either true (the main defense against libel/defamation is truth) or were stated as expressed opinions. (Expressed opinions are by definition not libellous.)

    But I will say that at first glance the lawyer that brought this case seems very sleazy.
    Last edited by Sakamonda; 02-06-2009 at 06:08 AM. Reason: correcting my vague language. . .
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  9. #309
    Clever title pending. MarkEsq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sakamonda View Post
    Did Dave have attorney representation during the trial?

    Not knowing the facts of the case, I can't comment whether this is a fair outcome or not. But I do know that in civil cases, the burden of proof is on the defendant, not the plaintiff. Which makes it hard to defend cases like this.

    I'm sort of late to the party on this, I deal with the law every day so come here for my writing needs.

    But I clicked on this link and have been distrubed by some of what I've read (which ain't much). Did Dave have a lawyer or not? To navigate a defamation lawsuit without one is suicide. And while I'm here, let me correct the notion that in all civil cases the burden of proof is on the defendant. I don't know if you're referring to defamation cases, but the burden shifts abck and forth depending on the specific allegations. This is precisely why a lawyer is vital in this area of the law. If this was in Texas, I'd volunteer all over this one.

  10. #310
    ... Sakamonda's Avatar
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    and yes, Dave, if you don't have an attorney, PLEASE get one NOW. If you didn't have a lawyer in the trial, it's no wonder you lost. You should be able to get one via a local lawyers for the arts organization. Even if the facts are on your side, it takes an attorney to fight an attorney.
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  11. #311
    Clever title pending. MarkEsq's Avatar
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    In fact, if you don't have a lawyer, PM me. There's an outside chance I can get a big firm to do it pro bono. I emphasize, outside chance, but if you don't ask...

  12. #312
    Terri Coop has been known to write circlexranch's Avatar
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    Dave - a suggestion while you are wading through the bale of PMs and emails and just generally catching your breath. Please contact the court reporter and get an estimate on the cost of the trial transcript. You have to have one for an appeal.

    To my AW brethren. The docket fee for the 4th Circuit Court of Appeals is $455.00 The notice form is on the 4th Circuit website. Let's set this as our first goal and help raise this amount. This isn't about Vic v. Dave. This is about the viability of sites like AW and P&E.

    To the bloggers out there. If you choose to discuss this on your blog, please emphasize that this was a personal dispute between two individuals and that PA was not a party. PA was in no way vindicated. My concern, given the 'tone letter' sent to Jason and the warning that he should 'watch his words' because of what happened to the 'basher' tells me that PA is going to use this as a strong arm tactic to try and silence dissent among the PAvidians and those who try and get out of their contracts.
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  13. #313
    Sometimes I creep myself out. AW Moderator Calla Lily's Avatar
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    Someone please refresh me--where can we donate? Didn't there used to be a PayPal link somewhere?

  14. #314
    Terri Coop has been known to write circlexranch's Avatar
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    One of the many donation pages is here:

    DONATE NOW TO THE APPEAL FUND!
    Terri Coop

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  15. #315
    Sometimes I creep myself out. AW Moderator Calla Lily's Avatar
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    Thanks, Terri. I'll do it when I get home tonight.

    ETA: Done.
    Last edited by Calla Lily; 02-06-2009 at 04:18 AM.

  16. #316
    Preditors & Editors Requiescat In Pace DaveKuzminski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by circlexranch View Post
    PA was in no way vindicated. My concern, given the 'tone letter' sent to Jason and the warning that he should 'watch his words' because of what happened to the 'basher' tells me that PA is going to use this as a strong arm tactic to try and silence dissent among the PAvidians and those who try and get out of their contracts.
    I would definitely appreciate it if anyone who receives a letter like Jason's would forward a copy of it to me.
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  17. #317
    wwhitman
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    "Convicted"; that's funny. Dave wasn't convicted. It was a civil suit. He was found liable. Big, huge difference.

    Dear PA: You suck and I hope the four of you (Miranda, Willen, Larry and Victor) go straight to hell.

  18. #318
    THE POPCORN MONSTER! JimmyD1318's Avatar
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    Why didn't Dave have a attorney? I thought that was the reason why everyone was donating money in the first place, was so he could mount a legal defense. How come he didn't have legal counsel for the trial?

  19. #319
    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyD1318 View Post
    Why didn't Dave have a attorney? I thought that was the reason why everyone was donating money in the first place, was so he could mount a legal defense. How come he didn't have legal counsel for the trial?
    I don't know why. From the court filings (click link and scroll to the PDFs listed at the bottom), it looks like Dave represented himself. Any time that happens, the chances of winning go down even if the facts are on your side.

    http://www.citmedialaw.org/threats/cretella-v-kuzminski

    Attorneys are expensive, which is why I suggested looking for lawyers that would be willing to take this case pro bono. An attorney can help avoid tactical errors in litigation. Unfortunately, when I read some of Dave's filings, I quickly spotted problems that could have been avoided if an attorney were involved.
    Last edited by Bubastes; 02-07-2009 at 12:19 AM.
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  20. #320
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin 4yur411's Avatar
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    There were people who donated their money to Dave's legal defense. My question is, if he didn't hire an attorney, what happened to the money that was donated?

  21. #321
    On to the next one. Sunnyside's Avatar
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    Easy there....

    I can tell you from personal experience that doing ANYTHING in a court of law -- whether it's through an attorney or not -- is expensive and time consuming. Filing fees, copies, research, travelling to and fro . . . it all adds up. I wouldn't presume to think for one moment that Dave wasted one nickel of the money donated to him. The legal system is, unfortunately, an pricey maze to maneuver.

    I only hope that for the next round he can afford an attorney. It'll likely be much cheaper than getting slapped with damages. The thought of paying his opponent a dime is gut-churning enough.
    Last edited by Sunnyside; 02-07-2009 at 12:47 AM.
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  22. #322
    A lot of people donating isn't the same as a lot of money was donated. So maybe he couldn't afford an attorney and he used the money for other court costs.
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  23. #323
    Girl Detective AW Moderator Stacia Kane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunnyside View Post
    I can tell you from personal experience that doing ANYTHING in a court of law -- whether it's through an attorney or not -- is expensive and time consuming. Filing fees, copies, research, travelling to and fro . . . it all adds up. I wouldn't presume to think for one moment that Dave wasted one nickel of the money donated to him. The legal system is, unfortunately, an pricey maze to maneuver.

    I only hope that for the next round he can afford an attorney. It'll likely be much cheaper than getting slapped with damages. The thought of paying his opponent a dime is gut-churning enough.
    Dittoing that, 100%.
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  24. #324
    I have plans... C.bronco's Avatar
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    How many times has Consumer Reports been sued? No company wants to hear that they stink, but if most clients are disgusted with the service, a non-profiting party, such as Dave, should have the right to say so.



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  25. #325
    haz a shiny new book cover Christine N.'s Avatar
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    It's NOT that Dave is calling PA names, or saying they stink. It's a personal defamation suit between Victor and Dave. PA has no part in it.
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