Strategic Book Group / Strategic Book Publishing / Eloquent Books / SBM

Kerry Morgan

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I'm not actually pissed at being taken. I'm pissed at being mutilated because you all feel I've been taken.

I just don't feel scammed. I have work ahead of me but I'm not afriad of that. I just wish that if people think another person is being taken, they should talk about it more sensitively to the person they feel was taken. Why blame the author?

I had a joint venture project and so far they've done everything they said they were going to do. They offer services to which you all are saying is a scam. Why would anyone do anything for free? Everyone needs a job right now- If someone is going to read my book and be the first to review it on Amazon for me- with a high score that helps me sell other books... why would I begrudge them money for it.

I'm going to make this work for me. I am a martial artist and that's what we do. We are a determined lot.

And ya know what? Maybe my writing wasn't good enough for a traditional publisher. So THAT part should be blamed on me- not the getting scammed part. I'm willing to work hard and learn and become better. I do that every single day of my life and I've done it with my sequel.

But that is my deal- not theirs- so how are they scamming people? They aren't a Vanity press- if anything its a print on demand because they aren't "sure" if the project will take off or not. That sounds kinda reasonable to me.

I need to improve my writing- but I'll use them as a publishing credit. I worked too hard not to-

But I still don't think the author should get killed for it.

Kerry
 

Cyia

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Yes I do mind actually. Because I'm not naive, I thought I did do my homework and yes it is selling to people whose names I don't know.

AND IT"S NOT THE AUTHORS FAULT

No one said it's the author's fault, but that doesn't change the outcome.

my book is not crap

It doesn't matter at this point because you've used up first rights of publication. The book will be what it is, and judged by its company. That company isn't great. When you get a printer who puts out the slush pile, you're bound to have some GREAT books that get swept up with everything else just like in any slush pile (and everything starts in the slushpile for newbies). However, once you've read 98 pieces of garbage, you start to realize that the chances of finding that diamond are slim.

the sequel isn't either

Also doesn't matter. IF the story can stand on its own as an independent tale that the original book isn't required reading for the reader to understand and IF Eloquent doesn't get rights of first refusal (I think I said that right), the you MIGHT be able to get an agent to look at it. Otherwise, it's dead.

And what good does it do to make the person who went with them feel like CRAP for doing so- EXACTLY WHAT DID I DO WRONG?

{snip}

sigh I'm going to finish my sequel and keep writing and remember that if someone does get scammed- it's not that person's fault-

It just isn't-

No one said otherwise.

and ya know what some of those stories were in fact sold.

Great, then those are publishing credits.

How can you people say it isn't a publishing credit?

Because it's not. Read some agent blogs and they'll tell you exactly how the publishing industry feels about books published through companies with reputations like this. For a self-pubbed or vanity pubbed book to get notice from a real publisher, you have to sell THOUSANDS of copies to people who don't know you. And even if you do that, you have to convince that publisher that you haven't used up the bulk of your audience or else they won't risk a dime on you.

And IF you get an agent to rep a 2nd book, you've burned any chance of them being able to call it your "debut", which has some weight to it.


Someone who posts here and works for a newspaper said it best, I think. When they get authors who want to be featured in the local paper for publishing through companies like this, he informs them that it would be like announcing "Local man accepted to community college and pays for own classes."


So what exactly have these people done that was so bad? Ask me for money? Is that the scam part?

Real publishers pay the author - period. You get an advance based on what the publisher thinks your book will earn over its print run. If the book goes on for multiple runs and earns out, you get royalties. If the book doesn't earn out, you've still got the advance that's yours no matter what. (some micro presses don't pay advances, but they still pay royalties. Real publishers give the author FREE copies of their own books. Real publishers market books in advance, send out Advance Reader Copies to legit reviews and get the books into catalogues that book stores use to stock their shelves. There's buzz about real books WAY before they ever hit the stores. If a company is presenting themselves as a real publisher (there's no such thing as a 'traditional" publisher, btw, it was a term made up by a vanity company) and they don't do the things listed above - RUN AWAY.

I'm not going to wallow I'm going to control my temper and keep writing.

Good. Then you may have a chance of getting published some day.
 

Marian Perera

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They offer services to which you all are saying is a scam. Why would anyone do anything for free?

Real publishers get paid by the reading public, not by writers. If they're being paid by you, then they're a vanity press. I'm sorry if that hurts, but it's the truth.

I need to improve my writing- but I'll use them as a publishing credit.

You're certainly free to use this as a publishing credit, but agents are not likely to take it seriously.
 

DaveKuzminski

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How to tell if you are vanity published:

If you paid for editing, you may be vanity published.
If you paid any set up fees, you may be vanity published.
If you have to purchase copies of your own book to give to legitimate publishing industry reviewers, you may be vanity published.
If you have to ask bookstores in your locale to carry your book, you may be vanity published.
If a publisher later tells states your book isn't a publishing credit, you may be vanity published.

Let's face it, the authorities haven't gotten around to publishers yet like they have to some of the "schools" advertised on TV or haven't you noticed that some of their commercials now carry messages that their credits may not or will not carry over to accredited schools?

Essentially, the others on this board have not mutilated you. They've passed on solid information built on years of following the claims of businesses such as those in this particular topic and debunking them with facts. Your failure to do research first is not their fault.

Furthermore, you're not an idiot for being scammed. Scams work because they promise what appears to be a legitimate deal only to leave you high and dry and they can work on anyone who wants something. What scams rely upon to keep going is for you to disbelieve everyone else because you'll feel inadequate. But like I said, scams can work on anyone. It doesn't matter what age you are, what gender you are, how smart you are, or how much is at stake. Scams can work on anyone.

As well, your idea of how to state something sensitively may differ from the ideas held by others. It's like the old saying of your mileage may vary. You don't get to choose how others will state things. Either accept the facts or not. Just don't blame those who point out the difference in how the publishing industry works differently from other businesses in the world. Those differences largely came about because it was necessary to combat scams in the past.

Can a reader trust a review on a book if it was paid for by the author or the publisher? After all, why should a reader trust your opinion? You and your publisher have too much of a financial stake in seeing your book succeed and therefore have a conflict of interest. That's why professional reviewers are paid by the publishers who print their reviews, usually in periodicals.

Similar reasoning follows for editing. Legitimate publishers want an inhouse editing capability so they can control the quality of what they publish. That's why authors don't hire their own editing services. You may not know who's reputable in the editing service quadrant of the publishing industry and there are plenty who are not only incapable, but some who are even dishonest. They'll do a spell check on your manuscript and consider that editing.

Agents are paid after they make a sale on your behalf to a legitimate publisher. You don't pay them up front because that removes the incentive for them to actually produce anything for you. By the way, many in sales work in a similar manner. They have to produce sales before they get paid.
 

M.R.J. Le Blanc

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Well ultimately it's your choice Kerry. But Robert Fletcher is being investigated by the authorities for a reason. I don't understand why anyone would want to be associated with him in any regard. Your first book may be stuck there, but YOU don't have to be stuck there. This isn't a 'when life gives you lemons...' moment where you try to make the best of it. It's a cut-ties-and-move-on. Work on something new, sell it to a real publisher and enjoy a much more satisfying success. You can always revisit this series later when the rights come back to you, and who knows maybe it'll be better.
 

Kerry Morgan

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I own the rights to my book. I checked my contract-

It is a vanity press\\I apologize, I was very wrong

Mr. Macdonald- you'll never be proved wrong

I was completely naive and scammed like a fool and spent a bunch of money I shouldn't have because now it has completely ruined my chance to be a decent author-

I so get it - and I'm not a kid. Thanks though-

Yes your information was all correct-

Guys- I'm kinda stuck- so I have to make the best of the situation-

Martial artists do that. So that's what I'm going to do-

Sorry to have been such a fool-

Well- back to the drawing board-
 

Kerry Morgan

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Robert Fletcher was never mentioned anywhere so I never searched his name and when I searched AEG nothing- everything was fine- at the time of my searches and doing my homework. The only thing I heard was that the contract offer 50/50 was a little iffy- If I could do it all over again I would- but I can't- so I'm going to do the best I can with what I've got and finish my sequel.

I didn't do enough homework- but I'll do a lot better next time-
 

Marian Perera

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I was completely naive and scammed like a fool and spent a bunch of money I shouldn't have because now it has completely ruined my chance to be a decent author-

I'm sorry about the money, but if it helps at all, you gained some valuable experience from it.

And no, it didn't ruin your chance to be a decent author. Falling victim to a scam is something a lot of writers have done. We all make mistakes. Don't beat yourself up over it.
 

HapiSofi

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Kerry, neither I nor anyone else here wants you to be unhappy. We're more like the helpful park rangers or first responders who try to get you to understand that even though you haven't yet been badly hurt in ways you recognize, the place you're standing isn't safe.

Robert Fletcher is a con artist. I don't mean that metaphorically. Here are some links for you:

http://www.sfwa.org/beware/general.html#Literary
http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34311
http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/008839.html
 
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Marian Perera

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Thanks to Kerry, I am now curious about this company and checking out their website.

<purr>Interesting...</purr>

They charge for "article submission packages", for audio books, for reviews, for signings (you have to buy 30 books before they set up a signing), for author displays, for marketing campaigns... this place could clean you out.
 
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M.R.J. Le Blanc

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Have some popcorn. Or chocolate. Or popcorn with chocolate. Whatever your choice of comfort food is :)

It's never too late to be a decent author. Or a published one.
 

Kerry Morgan

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M that all sounds like excellent foods at the mo :)

Like I said- I won't let this stop me. And Queen- a lot of that isn't what it looks like- you can get a fancy "package" or what they already give you with your contract- which I'll admit- does leave a lot of the leg work to you- but they tell you where to go so to speak lmao-

The story is a good one- no my book isn't different unless I me- myself and I make it so-

and I will make it so- if I have to go door to door I will. Or shop to shop- but I will make this work for me.

My only real quarrel was with the delivery of the information. If a person gets "taken" so to speak, and this business is so rift with emotion then its handlers should be a little less brash with the people who have been "scammed" though- if you don't buy the services- but you pay attention to what they are doing- you can get it all done elsewhere or just yourself for next to nothing.

THAT research I HAVE in fact done and its proving to be wonderful.

Anyway- Thanks Queen and M- I appreciate the encouragement... I've been writing since Iw as a child- I'm not about to stop now. :)

Just look at all my posts lol that should be an indication lmao

;)

K
 

Kerry Morgan

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Sorry I got posts mixed up- Queen- my "key card" so to speak is The Chariot-

Blessings to you too but also to Hapi- I just felt bombarded with "geez ur a ditz fer not finding this place before"

and I'm not- but if the man is a con- the man is a con- I just have never heard of him before -

the people I work with have said that they declined a "person" and that person has gone on a rampage.

The joint venture thing is indeed very close to vanity- but I didn't know that- it isn't an excuse- it is however, the truth-

I'll just keep trying and keep going.

Thank you truly for the notes of encouragement and pats on the back and helping me step away from that perilous edge. Pun intended.

Who knows what will happen with all the time I can put into marketing myself.

30 is less that 500 to 1000 too so that's a little better- but that was truly the first clue I ever had that something was a miss. That and the being told to be patient when it didn't pertain to my questions. LOL

Anyway-

I still like the site- hesitant of Mr. MacDonald - yes - but that doesn't mean he is wrong- probably means he's a lot like me lmao



K
 

AC Crispin

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Hi, Kerry:

Ann Crispin of Writer Beware here. If you need help or guidance in contacting the Florida Attorney General's Office, I can provide that. You can drop me a line at [email protected]

Robert Fletcher also sued Writer Beware (me and my partner, Victoria Strauss) and lost, by the way.

I realize the message you've heard sounds very harsh. But the people who have been unfair to you are Mr. Fletcher and his minions (and there aren't many of them, as Uncle Jim says he's admitted on record that he has 70 or so aliases), not the folks here.

Take care, and be well. Keep writing.

-Ann C. Crispin
Chair, Writer Beware
www.writerbeware.com
 

James D. Macdonald

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They charge for "article submission packages", for audio books, for reviews, for signings (you have to buy 30 books before they set up a signing), for author displays, for marketing campaigns... this place could clean you out.

Check out their book review packages over at the Strategic Book Marketing site:

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] ...we will print and mail 10 books to the top reviewers, at your cost .... [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]we can do all the above for $295 .... [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Typically, we ask for $192 from the author to cover costs.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]
 

Marian Perera

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Sorry I got posts mixed up- Queen- my "key card" so to speak is The Chariot-

Oh, I see what you mean.

68px-RWS_Tarot_07_Chariot.jpg


The joint venture thing is indeed very close to vanity- but I didn't know that- it isn't an excuse- it is however, the truth-

The thing with vanity presses is, they're smart.

They know that authors know vanity publication is not a professional thing, and that paying to be published is a sign of vanity publication.

So they rename themselves. They say it's a joint venture - they put up half the money and you put up the other half (except they aren't paying nearly as much as you are). They say they're a traditional publisher and shift their fees to the back end (so you end up buying your own book in bulk to resell). They charge for other services, for editing, for marketing, for reviews, for advertising, for anything they can.

Ultimately the one thing they have in common is that they charge writers. And they're not considered a professional credit. Okay, that's two things.

I still like the site- hesitant of Mr. MacDonald

Aw, he's not so bad. I think this might be his card:

68px-RWS_Tarot_05_Hierophant.jpg
 

James D. Macdonald

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Over at Eloquent Books' page, the lies start in their masthead, where they say "Eloquent Books New York, New York." All they have in New York is a mail-forwarding service. They're actually based in Boca Raton, Florida, in Bobby Fletcher's living room.

And check this out, from their page:

Many great authors past and present started in a similar manner of publishing:
Benjamin Franklin, Carl Sandburg, George Bernard Shaw, Leo Tolstoy, Mark Twain, Walt Whitman,
Virginia Woolf, Margaret Atwood, Stephen King, Deepak Chopra, John Grisham, and Jack Canfield.
This is a straight up, flat out lie. It is meant to deceive and mislead. It is fraud.

Kerry, when you say,

the people I work with have said that they declined a "person" and that person has gone on a rampage.
This is another straight up, flat out lie. They looked you in the eye and lied to you. Go back to the beginnings of these threads to see the whole origin and history of Robert Fletcher, con man, and his literary scams. It's a lot of reading -- the threads here go back to 2003.

The reason Fletcher changes his company's name, and his own name, so frequently is to make it hard for you to research him.

Aw, he's not so bad. I think this might be his card:

68px-RWS_Tarot_05_Hierophant.jpg


The Hierophant
.

Kerry, you're invited up to Learn Writing with Uncle Jim. We talk about a lot of things, including the business side of commercial fiction.
 

Kerry Morgan

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Thank you Ms. Crispin. Your site was incredibly helpful after I read here which is also incredibly helpful. Do YOU believe I need to join the cause? Because I'm a little numb at the mo lol

I tried to say before its the delivery of the message-

Mr. Macdonald- *closed gate bow* i will happily attend or be present and participate via my keys here. :)

Heirophant is much much better than the Tower ;) But I'd have to know your b day for sure- :)

Kerry
 

DaveKuzminski

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The only thing you've lost so far is one book and even that might be recoverable some day. Good luck with your sequel. Just make sure it's standalone so a real publisher can produce it without the first book providing an intro to it.
 

Kerry Morgan

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That's exactly what I've done- except a lot of critiquers are hating the info dump.... How do I avoid that part? Conversation maybe?

And do I say anything at ALL about the other book- I feel like if I don't I'm being scheme "y" under handed not telling the truth- and granted I'm a fiction writer that shouldn't be a problem except when it comes to business. There is nothign worse in business then that.

Thank you for any insights!

K
 

Kerry Morgan

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Okay- I have to tell it now- the last time I told a group this part- they all like turned away they hated it-

even though- I've done other ways- this particular way - is first person- so everything said in the book is almost talking to the reader-

but I've written other ways too lol

*lowers her self to a crouching position with her hands out.... eyes shut:) *

So it works okay.

K
 

Kerry Morgan

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"if you did lose all you'd built, you would still keep the experience and knowledge that you've gained up to this point, wouldn't you?"

quote from the meaning of his card-

which is brilliant :)

K