A GAME OF THRONES (HBO) -- POSSIBLE SPOILERS

thothguard51

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I was going to start a new thread for this question, but I really don't want to clutter the forums with too many related threads.

Martin never uses the term zombie in describing or calling the walking dead. The Nightwatch call them wraiths. Obviously these are not the White Walkers everyone fears.

The White Walkers are a reason Mance Ryder is gathering the Free Folks. He wants beyond the wall before they rise up. The First men feared them, the Starks feared them, and the Night Watch fear them. So where is Martin going with the White Walkers after 5 books now and not a single sighting.

In Book 1 and the HBO First season, episode 1 of AGOT, we sort of got a glimpse of what White Walkers might be, or are capable of. Since then, Martin has been very careful not to show his hand of what the WW might be. And HBO can't show what has not been written yet...

Somehow, spoiler alert>>>Bran at the end of Book 5 seems to be the one person who will understand the White Walkers, and so much more. But Martin didn't even give a hint, not that I recall.<<<

So, anyone got any ideas about the White Walkers and what they might really be?
 

BunnyMaz

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I haven't got a clue, to be honest. I know they apparently ride giant spiders? I've been lightly browsing Scottish mythology for anything that might fit, but so far have come up with nowt (because, c'mon, how is this not a mythologised Hadrian's Wall situation here?).
 

CrastersBabies

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Well they are the "others" in the books. I think they wanted something a bit more distinct for the series, and given LOST and "the others," perhaps they also wanted to get away from that.

As for what they are . . . they are undead. I think that much is pretty evident in the series (and the books). The dead girl pinned to the tree looked dead enough, but rose again in episode 1 (season 1). There is much talk of burning the bodies so they stay dead.

In the books . . . . (serious spoilers below, you have been warned)

<<< Perhaps there are more than one type of undead. We have the "others" in the north, including my poor babies (Craster's boy babies). But, they seem more zombie-like and mindless from what we have seen so far, except for Coldhands who may very well be Benjen Stark. We also have Catelyn, or "un-cat" as she is lovingly referred to on certain forums. She seems to have more mental capacity than what we've seen of the Others. There is also franken-Mountain, the giant of a "guard" that is protecting Cersei. I think that's the Mountain resurrected by one of the red priests. There are a few running around by the end of book 5. He seems more zombie-like, or maybe he just didn't have many brains to begin with.

We could look at the source of the resurrection. Red priest vs being bitten or killed by Others and reviving on your own. I don't know. Lots to think about. Good questions as always, Thoth. Love your pondering of this stuff.
<<<<<<
 

thothguard51

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I am not sure the zombie like creatures referred to as Wraiths, are the same as the White Walkers. To me, if feels more like the Wraiths are servants of the White Walkers, or something like that...

I got the feeling the dead girl in the tree was a zombie, but the mysterious guy we could never really make out swinging the sword was a white walker, or controlled by a white walker. What ever it was, it was not mindless like the Wraith that attacked Jon in Lord Mormont's room.

>>>And Un-Cat and the Franken Mountain seem to be products of a different source, the Red God and I don't think the Red God and the Others/White Walkers are the same. In fact, I get the impression that they are opposites/enemies competing for souls or whatever...<<<
 

JohnnyGottaKeyboard

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I am not sure the zombie like creatures referred to as Wraiths, are the same as the White Walkers. To me, if feels more like the Wraiths are servants of the White Walkers, or something like that...

I got the feeling the dead girl in the tree was a zombie, but the mysterious guy we could never really make out swinging the sword was a white walker, or controlled by a white walker. What ever it was, it was not mindless like the Wraith that attacked Jon in Lord Mormont's room.
Again have not read the books...

Around my campfire, we thought the wraiths were created by the White Walkers. Doesn't Sam say about the zombie Jon killed, something along the lines of: "He was touched by the White Walkers"? We thought we'd seen WW briefly twice at least--once in the very first scenes of S1E1, and once when a WW took that male baby left in the woods.
That's funny. My husband hasn't read the books and the Jon Snow parts are some of his favorite.
Certainly the lands north of the wall hold great potential for excitement, but watching Jon wander around and have the same convo over and over with his "captive" was rather dull.
I thought the scenes with Jaime were a little long (well, Jaime and his "cousin"). I also don't remember him being THIS bad in the books, but, we never got his POV in books 1 and 2, so who knows.
That whole thing was rather a waste except I suppose it forces Cat to get Jamie away to keep him alive as a bargaining chip. I still stumble over the assinine jailor--what a red shirt!
 

DreamWeaver

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The guard/red shirt was as clueless as a crewmember on the Nostromo looking for the cat. But you know, there are many TSTL people in real life, or there wouldn't be enough material for the "1000 Ways to Die" series or the Darwin Awards. And lawn mowers wouldn't come with the warning, "Caution: Not To Be Used as a Hedge Trimmer."
 

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I can't watch Season 2 on TV, so I'm waiting for it on blu ray. Anybody know when it will likely come out?
 

CrastersBabies

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I am not sure the zombie like creatures referred to as Wraiths, are the same as the White Walkers. To me, if feels more like the Wraiths are servants of the White Walkers, or something like that...

I'd really have to delve back into the books again or see if someone has an ASOIAF undead resource page out there. Who knows. It wouldn't surprise me if there are not only different types, but also varying levels of power, a hierarchy if you will. Think about it, the creature that came for Craster's boy baby seemed to know exactly what it was doing. Furthermore, the fact that Craster has made deals with the White Walkers shows intelligence on part of the undead collective.


>>>Yeah, I wonder about the differences. At any rate, both Un-Cat and Franken-Mountain are not the same as they once were. So, regardless of the source, those who are resurrected do not always come back the same. It makes me worry about Jon Snow and his potential resurrection... <<<
 

thothguard51

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tick..tick...tick...

A little over 27 hours to episode #9. What will we see? Who will die? Who will show their shinny rears? Tick, tick, tick...
 

CrastersBabies

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Hmmm, yeah, we should take a poll on the nudity for Sunday's episode. We haven't seen Ros in a while, so we're due. There's one pair of boobs.
 

CrastersBabies

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You know what, Thoth? I seem to recall a steamy scene in a trailer between Robb and his "Lady." There's potential there.
 

thothguard51

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You know what, Thoth? I seem to recall a steamy scene in a trailer between Robb and his "Lady." There's potential there.

Hell, its been so long since I commented about that, I forgot all about Rob and his foreign lady...

He went to the Craig to form a surrender all right....:D

As I recall, the trailer made it look like Rob has been pleasing women all his short life.

Go Rob go...
 

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Haven't seen the preview, but given that both actor and actress are smoking, I'm looking forward to their on-screen hookup. :tongue
 

thothguard51

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Speculation about the last two episodes...

1...Dani goes to the house of the undying and gets her dragons back this week. Next week, she leaves Qarth. She needs to start gathering her army.

2...Jon meets Mance and Ygrette sticks up for him. Jon is forced to >>>Kill Halfhand<<< next week to prove he has changed sides.

3...Arya says a third name, but who? I am betting after Tywin leaves, Arya and her boys escape Harrenhall. She needs to start her journey again.

4...Tywin heads out to help Kings landing. The blackwater won't happen till the last episode so we are left wondering what happnens to Tyrion.

5...Bree and Jamie, no idea what will happen to them in the last two episodes, but next season is going to be fun with those two, if Jamie doesn't talk us to death.

6...Littlefinger? Who knows, but he needs to set something up for next season.

7...Vary's, we won't see him again this season, IMHO.

8...Theon, not much left for his character this season. His sister gets his message but does not act on it. Next season will be real interesting on how HBO treats his character.

9...Sansa and Cercie continue their uneasy alliance while getting ready for the seige of Kings Landing.

10...The Hound...>>>Will run like hell next week, setting us up so he meets Arya.<<<

11...Tyrion prepares Kings Landing for war. >>>Destroys the shanty town outside the mud gate, which is not going to make him popular for season three.<<<

12...Joffrey, continues to be an ass, Next season >>>he will get whats coming to him<<<...

So, am I being too simplistic? Will HBO throw us a fast ball?
 

BeatrixKiddo

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I finally got the chance to check out the first season after it came out on DVD. Looking foward to the second season.

I am over half way done with book five in the series.

I have to say Peter Dinklage for Tyrion was the perfect choice for this character. He is excellent. I like the actress who plays Dany. Good choice there too.

I didn't like all the choices of actors for all the characters in the TV series, but some of them are growing on me. I know adapting a book to a movie or TV series is incredibly hard, so I give the creators of the TV series kudos for doing a decent job of trying to match the first season to the first book as best they could.

I did pick up on some differences but they weren't enough to bother me. I'm glad to see the TV series growing in popularity. Maybe that will encourage fans to read a truly great series of books if they haven't already.
 

CrastersBabies

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Welcome, Beatrix! When I finished book 5, I wanted book 6 ASAP. Agh, the wait kills me.

Thoth, seriously, I think you might be spot on with your predictions, except for Jon meeting Mance. I don't foresee that until season 3. Mance is a big role (and, yes, I still have a fangirl hope that they'll hire Robert Carlyle even though I know that's not possible) and we would have seen a casting blurb about him for sure. Was he even in book 2, now that I recall?

The Blackwater is going to rock.

Dany in the house of the Undying is going to rock (and be weird all in the same).

Tyrion will rock.

The Hound will not rock, but then he will rock later, right?

Is that vague enough? :)
 

BunnyMaz

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3...Arya says a third name, but who? I am betting after Tywin leaves, Arya and her boys escape Harrenhall. She needs to start her journey again.

I assume this will be the same as in the book, since it's a fairly significant event for Arya.
 

dragonjax

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Tonight's episode is "The Prince of Winterfell," and next week's season finale is "Blackwater."

OMG. CANNOT WAIT.
 

Parametric

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There is another episode after Blackwater, but yes, I am super excited! :D