Should the Patriot Act be renewed?

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BradyH1861

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astonwest said:
Yes.



No reason...just being difficult...

LOL! Dissent is a good thing!

That reminds me of something else my dad used to say (I'm not sure where he got it from), but he said "Sometimes, you just have to piss in the soup."

Daddy is the king of playing devil's advocate.

Brady H.
 

sgtsdaughter

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BradyH1861 said:
Indeed....complete with signs, music, chanting....

and police with batons...

Brady H.

Done a bit of protesting over the past few years. I always get a kick out of the batons and riot gear . . . several photos of the cops like that. And the metal barricades--those always strike me as cattle herding. :D
 
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BradyH1861

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astonwest said:
I think they might be using tazers now...

Indeed...the non lethal (right....) weapon of choice. Had the pleasure of getting zapped by one in the academy. I think I'd rather the baton.

Luckily our PD hasn't tazed any young children like other departments have, but those days are fast approaching.

Anyway, I am actually tempted to list all of reasons for opposing said act, but I don't have all night to work on it. :Shrug:

Brady H.
 

BradyH1861

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VOTE_BOT said:
How about just one of them?

Okay, fair enough.

I think it is kind of ironic that, according to our fearless leader, it is our mission to spread liberty and freedom around the world, but to do so, we must give up our freedoms here.

Please don't take that statement as a Bush or Republican bash. I dislike the Democratic Party as well. (they too voted to authorize the act) We are ruled (not governed) by Republicrats and Demicans, if I may quote Michael Savage.

I am not a Savage fan per se, but I enjoy listening to him for the entertainment factor, not because I agree with his politics....which can be scary at times.

Anyway, I could go on, but I said I would leave it at one reason. You know, my dad once saw my ACLU membership paperwork and called me a Pinko. I didn't think people used that word anymore!

Brady H.
(guess what party I belong to...)
 

VOTE_BOT

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(guess what party I belong to...)

At first glance, I would say Libertarian, though, with the ACLU thing, DSP is possible.

When I asked for one reason, I was hoping you'd be more specific. I think most of the objections to the Patriot Act can in some way be tied to a fear of diminished freedom.
 

BradyH1861

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VOTE_BOT said:
At first glance, I would say Libertarian, though, with the ACLU thing, DSP is possible.

When I asked for one reason, I was hoping you'd be more specific. I think most of the objections to the Patriot Act can in some way be tied to a fear of diminished freedom.

You are correct Mr. Bot. I am a Libertarian...I even have a card that says so! Granted, I do not "toe the party line" on every issue.

I'd be happy to give you something more specific. Diminished freedom is, as you said, probably the big reason that people oppose it. There are many nuances to that, of course. Naturally I oppose it strictly on the merits. Our rights are inalienable (ie: they come from our Creator) therefore the government cannot take them away...they did not give them, they cannot take them.

But I'll give you something more concrete. And something probably everyone on the board can possibly identify to. There is a provision which allows the FBI to access library records without a warrant. Let's say that I am doing some research for something I am writing. I check out a book which deals with, I don't know, bombmaking. (assume one of my characters is a terrorist) Okay, the FBI decides to pull a list of those who have checked out "How to Make a Bomb" by Billy Bang. My name is on the list. They now think I am up to no good. So they get a warrant (without having to go before a magistrate...under the act) and they can now search my house. Or, they can detain me without charging me with anything since I am a "terror" suspect. And it goes on from there.

Anyway, I hope that illuminates my stance a little bit. I'm not trying to be secretive or anything, I'm actually having to hold myself back. I don't want to write a lengthy denunciation of the act this close to bedtime.

Brady H.
 

VOTE_BOT

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Thank you for elaborating. I, too, am a Libertarian.

I suspected what you might list (accessing library records without a warrant), as it's my biggest objection as well.

There are a number of Fourth Amendment issues at stake.

You're absolutely right about the oligarchy, by the way.

Anyway, back to botting.
 

BradyH1861

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Glad to hear it Mr. Bot! When I was in grad school, I focused on 19th Century Urban History (development of police and fire protection specifically) and my minor field was Constitutional History. I wrote (in my opinion) a wonderful seminar paper on original intent and the Fourth Amendment.

Allow me to quote James Madison, Father of the Constitution:

"Do not separate text from historical background. If you do, you will have perverted and subverted the Constitution, which can only end in a distorted, bastardized form of illegitimate government."
Brady H.
 

Liam Jackson

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I think if you poll most of the local cops in your area on the QT, you'll find they hold the Patriot Act in contempt. *wink*
 

BradyH1861

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LiamJackson said:
I think if you poll most of the local cops in your area on the QT, you'll find they hold the Patriot Act in contempt. *wink*

Possibly, though I think most of ours haven't heard of it yet. :Clap:

In fact, I think they only learned about the Miranda decision last week....

Brady H.

(just kidding...our PD is a great group of guys and gals)
 

Optimus

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Wait, so your main objection is the fact that the government can, without a warrant, find out if you've been checking out, "Solo Kama Sutra" again?

C'mon, there's SO much more about the PA to be pissed about.

Like...

"SEC. 213. AUTHORITY FOR DELAYING NOTICE OF THE EXECUTION OF A WARRANT."

"SEC. 802. DEFINITION OF DOMESTIC TERRORISM.


  • (a) DOMESTIC TERRORISM DEFINED- Section 2331 of title 18, United States Code, is amended--



    • (5) the term `domestic terrorism' means activities that--

      • `(A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State;

      • `(B) appear to be intended--

        • `(i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;

        • `(ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or

        • `(iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and

      • `(C) occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States.'."
      • So...can a Jesse Jackson rally be defined as "terrorism" if he pisses off enough people in that district?
 

DaveKuzminski

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Optimus said:
"SEC. 213. AUTHORITY FOR DELAYING NOTICE OF THE EXECUTION OF A WARRANT."

"SEC. 802. DEFINITION OF DOMESTIC TERRORISM.

  • (a) DOMESTIC TERRORISM DEFINED- Section 2331 of title 18, United States Code, is amended--
    • (5) the term `domestic terrorism' means activities that--

      • `(B) appear to be intended--

        • `(i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;

      • `(C) occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States.'."
Hmmm, under those provisions, Larry, Willem, and Miranda could qualify. ;)
 
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