Prologue as a tool. How far can it stretch?

[Nateskate]

Complex (Maybe simple to some) question about use of prologues:

I'm toying with the idea of a prologue for my second book. Instead of author narrative, my desire is to actually use the prologue as another chapter. The dialogue quoted in this prologue/chapter is not from this story, but somewhat of a flashback to a brief conversation between two character from book one.

Genre: Epic Fantasy

I want to set the tone for book two. So, instead of a recap, which does take place to a degree in chapter one, I wanted to use dialogue in the prologue.

It begins by quoting a proverb from one of these two characters from book one. "A wise man ponders...." (Proverbs:3:7 from the Chronicles of ****)

Then immediately beneath the proverb in quotes, is a dialogue between the two characters, both heroes of the previous age. One is human, the other is one of the virtuous ethereal beings that helped save his people.

The tone I'm setting is something akin to a grandfather who spent his entire life fighting a noble cause, and on his deathbed, he's wondering if his great grandchildren will be wise or fools. And in this conversation with the ethereal being, he wants some kind of assurance, because he realizes the antagonists are plotting the anhilation of his race.

Then the hero passes, and the ethereal being speaks his worst fears outloud, "I fear that..." -obviously setting up the basis for book two. "The fate of civilization is not guaranteed, but is dependent on the wisdom and foolishness of each generation, and if the wise are willing to stand against evil.

I've seen other novel approaches to prologues. What are your thoughts on this method, and frankly, how it would sit with an agent/publisher. Thanks for your input.

[katiemac]

This is just my two cents, but:

Instead of author narrative, my desire is to actually use the prologue as another chapter.

If your intention is to use a prologue like a chapter, then it's not a prologue at all. It is a chapter. And if it's setting the tone for the entire book (which is what I think great first chapters should do) then you should call it a chapter, rather than a prologue, to make sure people actually read it.

Lots of readers like to skip prologues, but they never miss "Chapter One."

[Nateskate]

This is just my two cents, but:



If your intention is to use a prologue like a chapter, then it's not a prologue at all. It is a chapter. And if it's setting the tone for the entire book (which is what I think great first chapters should do) then you should call it a chapter, rather than a prologue, to make sure people actually read it.

Lots of readers like to skip prologues, but they never miss "Chapter One."

Thanks for your insight. It makes sense to me, and I'll ponder it. Still, I see what I'm trying to do as somewhat unique, (or maybe not?)

Please allow me to add some background to this. The entire story (series length) was already written. (Although in need of extensive re-writes to make it all uniform) Book one was a separate entity, never really intended to be book one. As I wrote the original version of the story, I had bits and pieces, and I toyed with using them in a prequel to the story. I wrote an outline story, then left it in limbo.

Primarily, because my origional story was written in three parts (nearly averaging 160,000 words a piece, I realized I created a monster, in that I'm a new author, and the book lengths were too long. So, I decided to restructure the whole thing into smaller stories (more books) which meant even more re-writes.

Since the back story was shorter, I decided to finish that "back story" first, and in doing so, decided to simply forget this "back story idea" and make it book one. It's finished and stands at roughly 85,000 words, more in line with the length I want each book in the series to be at when I submit them to an agent.

The origional stands on its own merits. And this "prologue" isn't necessary from a historical perspective. My intention was more philosophical. As a human being, I felt I wanted to say something important, but in such a way that it doesn't sound preachy. In a sense, it's a simple moral of the story: Every generation has its own battles, and stands or falls on the basis of the choices we (who live now) make. We can be wise or we can be fools. And in a sense, I'm pointing out that a wise man considers all the reactions to his actions, and anticipates his last step before he takes his first. (But I say it smarter in the book-snatch de pebble grasshopper)

I decided I wanted the reader to see the story through this particular lense, which is simply universal wisdom. In a sense, story two exists on its own merrit. I only call this prologue an additional "chapter" because I feel the message is more palatable through the mouth of the character, than me giving "the moral of the story" as a narrator.

If people skipped it, the story would still go on. If they read it, perhaps it might simply whet their appetite. What do you think?

[katiemac]

I decided I wanted the reader to see the story through this particular lense, which is simply universal wisdom. In a sense, story two exists on its own merrit. I only call this prologue an additional "chapter" because I feel the message is more palatable through the mouth of the character, than me giving "the moral of the story" as a narrator.

If people skipped it, the story would still go on. If they read it, perhaps it might simply whet their appetite. What do you think?

In regards to prologues in general, I don't think they necessarily have to be written with the perspective of a narrator. To me, your main characters can be involved, your minor characters, or even a character who never appears in the main chapter texts (Nabokov's Lolita, e.g.). So, it doesn't matter who's speaking, IMO, a prologue is a prologue or a chapter a chapter.

Okay. Based on what you've said about "the story still goes on," I guess it's just your decision if you want every one of your readers to read with that lense, or if it simply doesn't matter. And if you answer with, "it simply doesn't matter," then why are you including this information in the first place?

Just some things to think about, I guess. But here's an experiment: if you're okay with posting in SYW, I'll take a look at both your Prologue and your Chapter One and let you know with a little more insight what you think. If you're not comfortable, you can PM me. But please do keep in mind I'm no professional, but I do have years of reading experience behind me.

[Jamesaritchie]

Complex (Maybe simple to some) question about use of prologues:

I'm toying with the idea of a prologue for my second book. Instead of author narrative, my desire is to actually use the prologue as another chapter. The dialogue quoted in this prologue/chapter is not from this story, but somewhat of a flashback to a brief conversation between two character from book one.

Genre: Epic Fantasy

I want to set the tone for book two. So, instead of a recap, which does take place to a degree in chapter one, I wanted to use dialogue in the prologue.

It begins by quoting a proverb from one of these two characters from book one. "A wise man ponders...." (Proverbs:3:7 from the Chronicles of ****)

Then immediately beneath the proverb in quotes, is a dialogue between the two characters, both heroes of the previous age. One is human, the other is one of the virtuous ethereal beings that helped save his people.

The tone I'm setting is something akin to a grandfather who spent his entire life fighting a noble cause, and on his deathbed, he's wondering if his great grandchildren will be wise or fools. And in this conversation with the ethereal being, he wants some kind of assurance, because he realizes the antagonists are plotting the anhilation of his race.

Then the hero passes, and the ethereal being speaks his worst fears outloud, "I fear that..." -obviously setting up the basis for book two. "The fate of civilization is not guaranteed, but is dependent on the wisdom and foolishness of each generation, and if the wise are willing to stand against evil.

I've seen other novel approaches to prologues. What are your thoughts on this method, and frankly, how it would sit with an agent/publisher. Thanks for your input.

My trouble with prologues is that too many writers try to make them part of the story, part of the novel. If you're going to do this, you should probably just write chapter one.

I think a good prologue is pre-story. It's there to set up the story, and there because you can't start the actual story this far back in time. It's something that happened in the that stets up the story of the present.

It can certainly have dialogue, and probably should. It can be written just like a chapter, and probably should be. But what it can't do is be a direct part of the current story, or it isn't a prologue, it's chapter one.

[brokenfingers]

I can't believe people don't read prologues!

I never read the foreword, but I ALWAYS read the prologue. To me a prologue has always meant:

"Information the writer wants you to know to enhance the story."

Especially in the fantasy genre, it seems prologues are de rigeur. With the epic sweep of some fantasies, the prologues often contain info that the reader needs to know about something that occurred before the story begins and can help set the frame for the story to set in.

The prologue can be a way to create tension, suspense.

It can basically start your story by saying:

"Our hero was going to have a real doozy of a problem one day - but he doesn't know it yet. Here's what's coming..."

It can, in effect, act like foreshadowing sometimes.

[Nateskate]

In regards to prologues in general, I don't think they necessarily have to be written with the perspective of a narrator. To me, your main characters can be involved, your minor characters, or even a character who never appears in the main chapter texts (Nabokov's Lolita, e.g.). So, it doesn't matter who's speaking, IMO, a prologue is a prologue or a chapter a chapter.

Okay. Based on what you've said about "the story still goes on," I guess it's just your decision if you want every one of your readers to read with that lense, or if it simply doesn't matter. And if you answer with, "it simply doesn't matter," then why are you including this information in the first place?

Just some things to think about, I guess. But here's an experiment: if you're okay with posting in SYW, I'll take a look at both your Prologue and your Chapter One and let you know with a little more insight what you think. If you're not comfortable, you can PM me. But please do keep in mind I'm no professional, but I do have years of reading experience behind me.

I appreciate your offer. I'm not going to post in SYW because I hope to be shopping at least book one by next month. I'm hoping to shop book two by the end of June. The only reason I'm waiting is because I want to have my story proofread by a pro before submitting it. And my first choice happens to be a Ph.D in creative writing, who is a published fantasy writer. I have to wait until his semester is over, since he teaches at a University. However, I wouldn't mind sharing some parts in private. But at the moment I'm not at a computer with my files.

[edfrzr]

I may be wrong , but I've always felt that a prologue is meant to give you a glimpse of the upcoming story; that sunspot in your eye that you can never focus on, but you know it's there. In other words, to set up why what is going to happen happens; not the entire story, but just a taste, enough to make you want to continue

[Nateskate]

My trouble with prologues is that too many writers try to make them part of the story, part of the novel. If you're going to do this, you should probably just write chapter one.

I think a good prologue is pre-story. It's there to set up the story, and there because you can't start the actual story this far back in time. It's something that happened in the that stets up the story of the present.

It can certainly have dialogue, and probably should. It can be written just like a chapter, and probably should be. But what it can't do is be a direct part of the current story, or it isn't a prologue, it's chapter one.

Thanks for your advice James, it's much appreciated. I'm trying to think of an example? The prologue is for book two. The timespan between where the story in book one ends, and book two begins, is roughly a thousand years. The character I'm quoting actually dies several thousand years earlier.

Book one is for lack of a better word, "The Old Testament" of "T********" There's a linear history. And to borrow from the O.T. You have a series of interwoven stories. It would be like prefacing a book of the N.T with a quote from the O.T. In fact, I origionally wrote book one in a mytho-poetic style like the first few chapters of Genesis or ancient Greek Mythology.

The intention is that this is actually the history of a world, and in order for this civilization to survive, they have to learn from the mistakes of the past, or they are doomed.

When I wrote the series, it was understood there was a complex history to this world. There were wars, wastelands, and a raging battle between Ethereal beings from another realm that spilled into this world. I don't like Tolkien comparisons, because I'm to Tolkien what the Bangles are to Beethoven. Perhaps some people will prefer what I write, even as I like the Bangles for what they were, but I'm not in the same class.

However, in the sense that you had a history of Elves and Dwarves long before Lord of the Rings (and Lord of the Rings is contextual, but can be read as an isolated piece) so is my story. I have no Dwarves or Elves, but an entirely unique set of beings. In a sense, it would be like Tolkien opening LOTR with a quote from one of the characters killed off in the Silmarillion. It's a part of the same history, but not a part of the same story. People died defending the world against Sauron long before Frodo ever knew there was a Dark Lord or a ring. It's the same difference.