I need some British help!

[Christine N.]

I need to pick the brain of someone from the UK (or anybody who knows the answer to this question)

My MC is a 14 year old girl who gets transplanted from NYC to a little town in England. She goes to private school (but not a boarding school) It's such a small, tiny, insignificant part of the story, but I want to get it right. In fact, it probably only comes up once in the whole book. I just hate to have details like that and get them wrong. It irks me to read them, I don't want to write them.

If she's 14, what "grade" do you call that in a UK school? I can't seem to find any information on it on the web. I'm not sure if they have K-12 and call it that, or is it called something else. She would be in 9th grade here in the US.



Thanks!

[maestrowork]

Well... I was not from the UK but I went through UK educational system... we have A level and O level... in Hong Kong we don't have grades... but we have like Form 1 through 5, then 6 and 7 are pre-college.

If she's 14, she's probably in Form 2 or 3.

[Trapped in amber]

The year I began Senior school, they switched from calling it the 1st year to calling it the 7th year, 2nd year became year 8 and so on. What I don't know is how widespread this change was, or whether it applied to private schools (which in the U.K. are often called, confusingly enough, public schools). So she's either in the 3rd year or year 9. Sorry I can't be clearer.

Edit: from a quick google search it does look as though the change to the year 7, year 8 e.t.c. was widespread, if not nation wide. Still don't know about the private schools. If you go to www.google.co.uk (http://www.google.co.uk) you get the option to limit searches to within the U.K., which might help with your research.

[pdr]

Let's hope lots of people answer for you. I'll ask some of my UK writer pals to drop in. Trapped in Amber is correct it's all changed from Forms!

A private girls' school is a public girls' school. If it's a day school then it's probably a Direct Grant school called Name of Town or local famous person Girls' High School or it's called name of town or local famous person Girls' College!

However my public girls' school, like many in the UK, which took children into prep school aged four and taught us right through to University age had a system of classes that went like this: Kindegarten, Lower Transition, Upper Transition, School Remove, Form One, Form Two, Form Three (aged 10 - 11) Four Lower, Four Middle, Four Upper, (aged 13-14) Five Lower, Five Upper, Six Lower, Six Upper (17-18 years). Some schools reverse the number and call the form Lower Fourth, Lower Fifth etc!!!! That system still exists in my school and in most traditional public schools of long standing.

[TashaGoddard]

At 14 she'd probably in Year 9 or 10 in a state school (depends on when her birthday is during the academic year). However, as pdr says, private (actually usually called public, just to be unbelievably confusing!) schools still use forms. My husband taught at a public school during his teacher training and they called the years from 11 - 18 first form, second form, third form, fourth form, fifth form, lower sixth and upper sixth. At 14 years, she'd probably be in the third or fourth form (again depends on her birthday).

[Christine N.]

Thank you :) Very informative. So at 14, if she goes to a "public secondary school" (do they have co-ed schools, I think I read that they do) she would be in Fourth Upper, or third year, depending on the school.

I actually had written she was a third year, instead of a Freshman, which is what she would be in a US school. But I was basing that purely on Harry Potter and using age 11 as the starting point. I just want to make sure I get it correct. I think I like Fourth Upper - sounds cool.
It is a day school, but I didn't name it. But I might, now that I have an idea of how they are named. My MC lives in the big manor house outside the village. Perhaps the school will be named for him? Hmmm...

[Richard]

Sounds cool perhaps, but pretty unusual. Nobody that I know of would ever talk about a 'Fourth Upper' or know what was meant by it - that distinction usually only happens for the Lower and Upper Sixth (which are either continued in the same school, or at special Sixth Form Colleges).

Secondary schools are more likely to be split into three rough groups - Junior/Lower, Senior/Upper and Sixth Form - and then individually into 'sets' for key subjects like maths and modern language (at mine, this ran Alpha for the top class, then Beta, Gamma and Delta, but it was a pretty old fashioned place)

Instead of 'coed', which is a very American term, you want to call them 'mixed'. If your kid's in the third year of secondary school, I believe he'll be about 14.

My MC lives in the big manor house outside the village. Perhaps the school will be named for him? Hmmm...

Most English schools tend to be named after the town they're in (XYZ City School, XYZ Grammar etc) or an iconic figure like a saint, rather than local families. If there's local power at work, you're more likely to find it working as a governor than a direct source of funding.

I'd also point out that basing your research on Harry Potter would be like me writing a tense modern American drama using nothing but old Humphrey Bogart movies. It's a highly stylised version of the public school system ;-)

[Christine N.]

Yep, she's 14.

LOL about the HP. That's why I asked the question. I stuck in "third year" to hold the place until I got the correct verbage. Thanks about the name. I'll either think of something or leave it unnamed.

So what do I call it? Third year, Junior, or Fourth form? I don't want to confuse poor readers too badly. I think third year is something they'll be familiar with, since my main readership is in the US. If they've read HP, at least it will sound familiar.

I need a final answer here, if there is one. Or at least a very informed opinon :)

[Richard]

Form and Year are interchangable, but I'd go with Year.

[Christine N.]

Thanks!

[pdr]

If I'm correct Christine you want your girl to attend a private (that is public) school? Then these schools do indeed have systems like Lower Fourth or Four Lower for naming their years. Some have even more unusual naming systems but for clarity perhaps you'd better stick to year and call her a third year.

What's her social life like? If she mixes with the local kids who have a state education she'd be careful to sound like them and say year three. If she's class conscious then she won't mix with the local kids and will happily talk about the Lower Fourth.

Your girls' public school would be named after the town, or a local benefactor who financially supported the school in its early days. Blankchester Girls' High School or Dame Splendid's College for Girls are the usual types of name for a good academic girls' public day school.

[maestrowork]

Yeah, I'll agree that you should use year instead of form. "Year" is more "universally understood" than "form." At 14, she should be in Year 3 or third year.

[Christine N.]

Thanks guys! Most of the story takes place between her house and the place book she gets sucked into. But, before all that stuff happens, she does go to school and picks up some friends. That's why I wanted to know. She thinks about the difference between a US school (where she would be a Freshman) and the new school (so now she's a third year).

It's a mere passing reference, just want to make sure I get it right.

Most of the Public schools wear uniforms, right? Most of the like Catholic school uniforms?

[Richard]

Almost all English schools have mandatory uniforms.

The exact design varies quite a bit though - in junior school, generally boys have white shirts and grey trousers, adding elements like a blazer and tie when they move up to secondary school. Girls usually have the same basic ensemble at that point, except with either a knee or floor length skirt (quite often you get the knee-length ones in years 1-5, then a full length one in the sixth forms. Needless to say, those with the short ones typically do their level best to turn them into a belt, while the older girls end up with them dragging half way down the corridor ;-)) The colours usually tend to be fairly subdued - navy blue, dark red and the like, but there are exceptions. Public schools can more or less please themselves when designing the uniform, but they typically go for something austere and important looking - they charge a LOT of money for tuition, and love to provide reasons why ;-)

The best thing to do would be to have a look through some public school websites - almost all of them should contain something on the uniform - and find a balance that suits your environment.

[Richard]

And randomly, the blazers inevitably itch like living hell. We always had to wear that crap at my school on the assumption that we'd be getting jobs that required that kind of dress, but I became a journalist, and as such just wander around in jeans and a coloured shirt all day ;-)

[Eussie]

I am originally from the UK and thought I might be able to help but I think I would advise either this board: http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/ and posing your question (looks like it's an extremely busy board) or researching a 'particular' school and using it for your model school. Like Eton perhaps.


Good Luck
Eussie

[Alphabet]

I'm with Eussie, although my idea is slightly different it is in the same camp (I wanted to read the whole thread to be sure if it was already suggested or not).

Why not contact a school directly and ask them. I'm sure it would be the easiest thing for them to reply to you, provide an envelope/postcard and also an email address for that.

I think you ought to choose a school in the area in which your book is set. i.e. the nearest private school to your chosen location. Because it does vary school to school, so I would think you would be most confident if you know that a specific school in that location really does use the phraseology you go for.

[three seven]

Nobody that I know of would ever talk about a 'Fourth Upper' or know what was meant by it - that distinction usually only happens for the Lower and Upper Sixth
When I was 14 I was in Upper 4.

[three seven]

And don't forget she'd be in a House as well as a form (not a year in a private school.)

[Nivvie]

*Starts having flashbacks*

I went to a public girls school in Sussex, and like someone said about daft names, we were called after saints, not our year or form.

However, after they went from saying third year to year nine, they still used number first system.

If you want realistic private school it's about depravation.

I was both a boarder and non-boarder, and it was all about make up and chocolate.
Sweets were completely banned, and so it was the job of the non-boarders with their access to the outside world to bring in contraband.
I once hollowed opened a tissue box on the side, slid out the middle tissues and inserted chocolate, then glued the seal back, leaving the top perforations intact, wrapped it up and gave to to a boarder for her birthday.
Good thing no one in authority thought to check the weight, it was suspiciously heavy.

[Nivvie]

Oh, and a note on houses if you don't know what they are. It's a cross form grouping for competitions and sports with linked names. Such as relevant saints, often the patron saints of the countries of the UK, or once at one of my schools, sites of the world that had religious significance, like Walsingham, Fatima and Lourdes.

[Nivvie]

Last one I promise.....on uniforms, I had to wear a felt hat in the winter, and a straw one in the summer.....*shudder*

[three seven]

It's a cross form grouping for competitions and sports
...and tutoring. For example you might have eight or ten houses, with twelve or fifteen people from each year in every house. Those twelve or fifteen people then have a dedicated tutor (read mentor) who'll take responsibility for their educational and disciplinary needs etc.

[maestrowork]

And don't forget she'd be in a House as well as a form (not a year in a private school.)

Oh yeah, the House. I was in the White House. (giggle) We had competitions not only for sports, but also academics and arts stuff. At the end of the school year we had an over all champion.

And yes, we wore uniforms -- although many of us managed to bring our own styles to it...

That's why when I read/saw Harry Potter it call came back to me...

[Christine N.]

I hadn't actually chosen or named an exact location, but now that I'm hashing it out a bit more, I've decided on County Cambridgeshire. So, anything anyone can tell me would be most helpful.

The most I would need is description. I've seen some pictures and all, but if anyone has been there or through there, every bit helps.

Here's another bit, as long as I have your attention. Say I was going from Heathrow to Cambridgeshire, in a car. What might I see out the window? Not specific places, perhaps, but general landscape. I've had some difficulty writing it out. I suppose you leave the city (or go around it) and see suburbs, then it changes to villages and open ground.

All help is appreciated :)

[Richard]

I don't know what exactly you'd see on your travels, but you tend to get a lot of fields and the dull bits of towns - the English countryside isn't particularly fascinating by train ;-)

[TashaGoddard]

In a car you'll probably see mostly other cars - because you'd be going by motorway most of the way. You'd be unlikely to see any villages, although you might see rooves and church steeples in the background. I don't know the route it would take, I'm afraid, but you should be able to find it out with a route-finder.

If you had her travelling by train, she'd see more. Then again, that would mostly be fields. Probably a lot of sheep and cows. But by train, you'd go through towns and villages, stopping at some of them on the way (probably also changing trains somewhere), so you could have more description of people (e.g. the people standing on the platform, the other people on the train, etc.).

Car might be safest, because you don't need to go into too much detail and risk describing something wrong! If she's being driven, rather than driving (which as a 14-year-old she would be) then she'll be able to notice more. You could have her mentioning the weirdness of driving on the wrong side of the road! You could have her stopping at a motorway service station and being astounded at the cost of the coffee (and the disgusting taste). And you might have her catching a glimpse or two of sheep, horses, cows or maybe even pigs. If she's travelling during the spring you could have coo and gush over the cute little lambs.

Hope this is of some help! I don't know Cambridgeshire well, so can't really help with more details, though I'm fairly certain it's one of the 'flat counties', which means when there she won't see too many hills. I've been to Cambridge itself, but only once. I do recall walking along a footpath into town and having to turn around and go a different way because there was a very angry swan garding her(his?) cygnets. Other than that I don't remember much.

Hope that's of some help.

[three seven]

Depends where in Cambridgeshire you're going. If it's to Cambridge, you wouldn't see much - you'd go round the M25 and up the M11, motorway all the way and most of it high-banked.
Cambs is reasonably flat, but the landscape varies from rolling fields and forest to desolate fenland.
I know it very well, so if you give me some more specific questions I'll gladly tell you everything you need to know.

[Christine N.]

You guys are the greatest! Yep, I did remember to have her remark about the weirdness of driving on the left LOL.

It's been nearly 20 years since I've been to England, and much of it was seen from a bus, so you're helping me out immensely. The couple of paragraphs where she needs to see out the car window have been giving me trouble. Good to know the road is high-banked. Saves me from making up a lot of stuff that couldn't be true.

I imagine that eventually she would have to get off the main highway (or motorway) to get to her own town. I'm not using a real town or anything. I did find a nice site that had some good pictures, so I have ideas in my head.

Ugh, I hate rewrites - but again, you guys have been most helpful. It's these little details that will make the book that much better!

Houses - they really have houses in day schools? Are they usually named for colors, or is every one different. I'd be glad to hear what you all have experienced, to give me some ideas.
And someone told me you don't have Field Hockey in the UK??? What's that about? My poor MC has nothing to try out for! Right now I have her trying out for soccer, but if you tell me girls play rugby at that age, I could always use that!

[Richard]

A lot of schools had houses. Mine was a state grammar school, fairly old fashioned, and ours were Porschus, Degrey, School (the boarding house, although there were other people as well in it) and another one I've completely forgotten. Hutton, I think.

I imagine that eventually she would have to get off the main highway (or motorway) to get to her own town

Motorway.

[Nivvie]

I know it's none of my business and all but I have a major aversion to Cambs and three seven is right, there is nothing to look at.


Have you considered Kent?
It's also close to Heathrow, but there are oast houses and apple orchards and is generally more the picturesque english county people associate with this country. Tourist infomation websites would throw up a host of pretty pictures to inspire you.

But as I said, your book.... *removes interfering nose*

[Nivvie]

I played field hockey and now they do play rugby.

Lots of hockey.
Some still play lacrosse.

[TashaGoddard]

We had houses, too (state comprehensive): Cabot (my house), Bradley, Southey and Whittington (or is it Wittington - can never remember!

There's plenty of hockey (generally just called hockey, rather than field hockey as ice hockey is not very common). There's also netball (though that might be more common in state schools than public) and lacrosse, as Nivvie mentioned.

[Christine N.]

Ooo, Lacrosse. I'd forgotten about that. I did a two day bit at an uppity boarding school in Pennsylvania (I was afraid what you'd say if I wrote PA LOL) and they had Lacrosse. Here in the US, Lax is a spring sport for girls. Many of those that play hockey in the fall play it in the spring.

does each house play the others, like HP, or do you play other schools.

Glad about the field hockey, makes my life easier. Kent, you say? I'll have to look into that.

I'm sorry if I'm being a pain, but one question is just leading to others.

[Nivvie]

does each house play the others, like HP, or do you play other schools.



Both, there are often inter are then county matches and regular house matches.

And you're not being a pain, for some reason I'm enjoying this sadistic trip down memory lane.

[Christine N.]

Aw, thanks Nivvie.
For anyone else who is visiting this thread, here's a great site I've found...

http://www.picturesofengland.com/England/Greater_London/London/pictures/thumbnails

Lots of pretty pictures!

[Richard]

Houses usually face off against each other in specific competitions, like the school Sports Day. Individual games periods are just a split of the class.

[three seven]

Houses usually face off against each other in specific competitions, like the school Sports Day. Individual games periods are just a split of the class.
You just brought back some horrible memories. We used to have a house music contest, where each house had to collectively get up on stage at St Andrew's Hall and sing some dumbass song like I've Got A Brand-New Combine Harvester to a public audience.

Sheeit.

[Richard]

Yeah, at mine, that was restricted to the folks with actual musical talent.

[Richard]

My auntie May had a funny old machine. The bits that hadn't rusted you could see were painted green. And nobody knew what that great machine was for. Although she kept it out in the shed for fifty years or more...

[pdr]

Uniforms are a definite must, and a winter hat or beret and a summer straw hat are still worn. Winter coats at some girls' public schools are often a very nice, well tailored, woolen duffle coat. Some schools now have quilted nylon affairs. Blazers with the school crest are a must! Often for the girls' schools there is a really nice, wide and long scarf, woven not knitted, in the school colours. Your third year would probably still wear a gymslip. Typically the situation is little kilt type skirts with straps, worn with blouses for the little girls. Gymslips, a sort of pull-over the head pinafore dress or jumper I think you Yanks say, were worn with a blouse from 11 years to 13 or 14. Then came the skirt and shirt and tie. Length of skirt ruled by the Govenors. Usually you kneel down and the skirt must touch the floor. If it doesn't it's too short and you're in big trouble. If it is too long no one minds so much. Some of the girls' public schools have a very dramatic and stunning cloak or cape. The girls wear it between classes and going around school.

Houses are often named after retired heads of the school or local notables who were connected to the school through being on the board of govenors. Some girls' public day schools (especially the Miss Buss and Miss Beale schools) did not approve of competition as such and did not have houses or house competitions but did expect their school to beat all other schools at hockey and lacrosse, tennis, cricket and athletics. Netball and soccer are for state schools. The public schools played rugby not soccer. There are lots of tricky class things your poor lass is going to trip over.

If she is attending a really good girls' day school then the emphasis is on all round academic excellence. This means music is as important as maths and the games afternoon when all her year will go to the playing fields (please note the correct terminology here!!!) is not for skiving off. These days girls who don't like games like hockey will usually play golf or do some other socially correct activity like dancing. The girls' schools always have creative gymnastics and expressive (Lahban dance) as well as games. Olympic gymnastics is an option choosen later if at all! Often the choice of sports for the fifth and sixth forms is incredible: riding, fencing, judo, archery, women's self defence, you name it and it's probably available.

There will be an enormous amount of homework, far more than your American schools ever set. At her age she will be expected to write several page essays or compostitions for each subject. None of the 'read the book and write a short book report' stuff. She will be expected to discuss and understand and think. Your girl might also have to face the fact that she is way behind her age group and the school will try to put her in a lower form than one usual for her age. English children start school aged five not six and if they go through Preparatory school first as most of her classmate will have done then they will have had excellent teaching, been in small classes and therefore be around 18 months in advance of your girl.

And as a matter of serendipity, the advert bar at the top of this page was advertising a UK girls' public school. Click and have a look and send for their information pack. It had day and boarding students and a wonderful name!
Happy Writing!

[Nivvie]

Pdr's post reminded me of a couple of other things. I went to both state and public, and at public school we learned latin and classics whereas we didn't at state.

At some public schools it is also now possible for students to bring their horses, with the school either arranging local livery or there being stables on the grounds.

Also, some schools will start taking day pupils as of three years of age, and they usually start boarding if they're going to at seven.

[LisaHa]

I went to a private girl's school in Warwick, England. At 13/14, I was in the Upper 4th, and 14/15 in the Lower Fifth. They were written as U4 or L5 followed by the stream we were in (A, B or N - for No Latin). So I was U4A. We didn't have houses - everything competitive was between streams. The years went: Upper 3rd, Lower 4th, Upper 4th, Lower 5th, Upper 5th, Lower Sixth and Upper Sixth.

Defintite for school uniforms. We wore a winter uniform of grey skirts, grey pullovers, yellow blouses, gold and black ties, black or brown shoes, and grey tights or knee-high socks. The sixth former wore black skirts, jumpers and tights with the same blouse and tie (although sixth form uniform was scrapped while I was there). We had black blazers with our emblem on the chest in gold.

In the summer we had grey checked summer dresses, white socks and black shoes, worn with our grey jumpers. Dull!:sleepy:

There was a time when the school insisted on straw boaters in the summer but they got rid of them just before I went there. Apparently they got fed-up of American and Japanese tourists stopping the girls in the street for photos - especially next to the old red Victorian postbox. :)

Hope that helps.

Lisa x

[Christine N.]

Wow, you guys have been busy. Thanks so much. If I don't use all the information in this book, I'll keep it and use it for the rest of the series. Most of the book isn't about her school, but I want to have enough detail so that I sound like I know what I'm talking about. This is good stuff. The uniforms are pretty much what I figured. Most Catholic schools over here have the same basic outfit, except without the hats and coats.

Yep, I do know what "skivving off means" LOL. Love that terminology. That and "nicking" something.

That's it - I'm moving to England. Just sounds like fun. My auntie is currently living there (outside of Cambridge) but she's no help, b/c she teaches at a military school. Which is, of course, American. All this insider information is better.

So, Nivvie, if I were changing to Kent instead of Cambridge, is the view from a car window any better? or are all the motorways high banked? Are they earth banks or concrete? Or sound barriers?

We have these tall sound barriers on alot of our highways. Like driving the PA turnpike - you don't see much for a while, but then you get the really great views of dairy farms and such.

Oh, one last question that came up while I was fitting all this into the book - what do teachers wear? Do they really wear black robes or something else?

[Nivvie]

That site you posted was great, and based on some of the pics there I describe it in the Rochester area.


So, there is the boring M25 with the high barrier and the like, then the A2 which is mostly a dual carriage way so still quite busy, but once the houses thin out it's flat farmland on either side, a country park and stuff, but still quite boring. Then you come into Strood which is just a boring town with shops, then over a nice bridge into Rochester. The river is pretty wide and from the bridge there's a good view of the castle you can see on the site. There a huge cathedral and the shops are all wonderfully useless and quaint (expensive chocolate, flowers, antiques, wooden toys, art) and the Dicken's mini swiss cottage thing is between the shops. There is a lot to do with Dickens in the area as he lived there, 'Twist's Hairdresser' and the like.

Your character could bypass this and head straight out into the country, but lots of people de-tour through Rochester as it's so pretty. Then if you wanted to head out to the country from there, on the A228, you'll see the strange rooves of oasthouses used for hops, white painted wooden houses (not common in the UK like they are in the US), cottages with thatched rooves, lots of farmland, and the most amazing thing about the likes of the apple orchards as when they are in fruit you can spell fresh apple as you drive past. kent is known as 'The garden of England' becuse of all the hops and fruit and pretty countryside. Little villages have a lot of flint cottages too, and most will have at least one larger than the rest of the houses. Kent has quite a lot of regency and Queen Anne style houses, big things with huge windows, often with ivy and lilac growing up them.

The churches are all old, with often little rooves over the gates and well established graveyards. It's traditional to have a yew tree, and some of the graves are pretty ancient, four hundred years and so. Kent was full of highwaymen and smugglers, and people make a point of looking for the graves of famous criminals.
Pretty much every village will have a pub, and if it's warm there could well be people sat in the beer garden.

There are other pretty areas of Kent, and in places the coastline is nice, so if you have any more requests fire away. Canterbury is also good, it's a decent sized city with an amazing cathedral and there's the whole Chaucer connection.....I could go on forever, so let me know if you need anything specific about another area of Kent.

[Christine N.]

Ok, Nivvie, I'm gonna take you up on that. I've been poking around and I think I have a place in mind that fits the picture in my head.

What do you know about Penshurst? From what I have read, it has its own rail station, which means I can change from driving to train if I want. Is there a train station that leaves directly from Heathrow? Or do you have to take a cab to a bigger station, like Kings Cross or Paddington? Sorry if I'm way off.

And Penshurst Place is almost exactly the type of house my MC finds herself in. Not a castle, exactly, but a manor house.

So, give me what ya got. LOL. Thanks :)

[Nivvie]

Alrighty.

So, pretty much everywhere has it's own train station, meaning that there is a lot of changing to be done.

If I was travelling on public transport to Penshurst from Heathrow I'd probably get the tube from Heathrow to Charring Cross (probably, don't quote me!) train station in London, then onto Tonbridge where you'd then change again for Penhurst itself.
It's pretty hard to go anywhere without changing, although the times between connecting trains quite short. Not too much waiting around (I hear British people laughing...hehehe).

I don't know that area in as much detail, but it's on the border with East Sussex, so to get an idea look up East Grinstead and Crowborough. Lots more crop style countryside and roads flanked by trees. There's also a lot more hills than the rest of Kent, as it's heading towards the Downs.

The trains in that area are usually pretty packed being commuter land, so seats are often booked to make sure you get one. It's very common for people to be standing up in the aisle.
Trains are non-smoking, and these days there is even a carriage for people wishing to yap for hours on mobile phones.

Oh, and at one school I was taught by nuns, so they wore habits, and at another they just wore smart clothes/suits.

[Christine N.]

Thanks, Nivvie :) I think I've got a pretty good idea of it now. You da woman!

[pdr]

Depends on the school. If they are seriously academic then teachers still wear their gowns though not their mortar boards. The full rig is only worn for Speech day in most modern schools, that is cap and gown over a smart dress or suit.

The 'trendy' public schools let their teachers wear normal day wear, jeans even, although you'd expect to find public school teachers wearing more formal wear than teachers in the state school system.

[Christine N.]

Thanks pdr!

[Zolah]

Can I add a couple of things here? I live in England and I only left school five years ago.

If your girl was going to a state run school she would be called a year nine. People don't usually refer to someone as being a third year anymore - I never came across that, it's just confusing for the teachers. Some private schools use this system too, because, again, it's less confusing.

Also, an English person would never refer to Cambridgeshire as 'County Cambridgeshire'. It's just Cambridgeshire (pronounced CAIM-bridge-sure) or Cambs (pronounced Cams). I live in Lincolnshire and we just refer to it as Lincs.

Ooh, and remember that it's Easter holiday (not spring break or vacation), Autumn (not fall) etc.

[three seven]

CAIM-bridge-sure
In Cambs it's pronounced Caim-bridge-sheer.

[Zolah]

Oops. That's just the way I pronounce 'sure', I suppose. And you probably thought I was posh or something...:o

[three seven]

I don't know, I pronounce 'sure' like 'shore' as opposed to 'shurr.' Not shore I've heard it pronounced sheer though. In fact I'm not shurr we're having the same conversation. Anyone else know?

:Shrug:

[Christine N.]

Thanks all, for the help!

[TashaGoddard]

It's just Cambridgeshire (pronounced CAIM-bridge-sure)
I don't know, I pronounce 'sure' like 'shore' as opposed to 'shurr.' Not shore I've heard it pronounced sheer though. In fact I'm not shurr we're having the same conversation. Anyone else know?

Well, I live in Gloucestershire (though I don't really have a Gloucestershire accent) and I pronounce it -shuh (as in Russia), which is perhaps what Zolah was getting at with her -sure. I have heard people pronounce it -sheer, though.

Still, as Christine is only writing the book, not providing a phonetic dictionary of all the different ways we pronounce -shire over here, that's OK! The important thing for Christine to note is that we would never say 'County Cambridgeshire', rather just Cambridgeshire. (In Ireland they do, though - e.g. County Durham.)

[Zolah]

Well, I live in Gloucestershire (though I don't really have a Gloucestershire accent) and I pronounce it -shuh (as in Russia), which is perhaps what Zolah was getting at with her -sure. I have heard people pronounce it -sheer, though.

Yes, that was what I was getting at. I thought I was going mad for a moment there...Of course, what this proves for the poor writer who started this thread is that part of the English charm is how pedantic so many of us are!:crazy:

[jules]

I went to a private girl's school in Warwick, England. [...] We wore a winter uniform of grey skirts, grey pullovers, yellow blouses, gold and black ties, black or brown shoes, and grey tights or knee-high socks.

Small world -- you're talking about the place at the top of Smith Street, right? I work about 2 minutes walk away from it. :)

[three seven]

I can't believe you took that quote seriously! :ROFL:

But if we are being pedantic...
In Ireland they do, though - e.g. County Durham....County Durham is in England.

[Christine N.]

Yeah, I know they do that in Ireland.. ie.. County Cork.
Heck, people here don't pronounce words the same even in the same state!

Believe me, this coversation has been most enlightening!

[Jewel]

Hi


You might find this link helpful:
http://www.westonbirt.gloucs.sch.uk/jargon.htm

Jewel