Female soldiers more likely to be raped by their comrades, than KIA

[Bravo]

At the heart of this crisis is an apparent inability or unwillingness to prosecute rapists in the ranks. According to DOD statistics, only 181 out of 2,212 subjects investigated for sexual assault in 2007, including 1,259 reports of rape, were referred to courts-martial, the equivalent of a criminal prosecution in the military. Another 218 were handled via nonpunitive administrative action or discharge, and 201 subjects were disciplined through “nonjudicial punishment,” which means they may have been confined to quarters, assigned extra duty or received a similar slap on the wrist. In nearly half of the cases investigated, the chain of command took no action; more than a third of the time, that was because of “insufficient evidence.” […]
The absence of rigorous prosecution perpetuates a culture tolerant of sexual assault — an attitude that says “boys will be boys.”



http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-harman31mar31,0,5399612.story

[NikeeGoddess]

didn't bother to read the article
but i found 2 pence in my pocket so:
this is because al qaeda widows will not "love you long time" prostitute themselves and take advantage of the market. they should as it is against the law for them to work for a living and now that they're widows... problem is they'll literally loose their heads.

[Bravo]

huh?

[RumpleTumbler]

Numbers reported by the Department of Defense show a sickening pattern. In 2006, 2,947 sexual assaults were reported -- 73% more than in 2004. The DOD's newest report, released this month, indicates that 2,688 reports were made in 2007, but a recent shift from calendar-year reporting to fiscal-year reporting makes comparisons with data from previous years much more difficult.

compared with........


http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/7660/every2minutescopyeb9.jpg

http://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/frequency-of-sexual-assault

This seems to be a larger problem and includes not only military personnel but civilians. Wouldn't it be best to start the battle where the larger problem lies?

[Cranky]

compared with........


http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/7660/every2minutescopyeb9.jpg

http://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/frequency-of-sexual-assault

This seems to be a larger problem and includes not only military personnel but civilians. Wouldn't it be best to start the battle where the larger problem lies?

Because soldiers are homicidal rapists, and we shouldn't sweep that under the rug, of course.

They're all ticking timb bombs. I'll be sure to warn my sister-in-law. Hell, for that matter, I guess I'd better toss my husband out.

I don't know what that means for me. Maybe I should be wary of harrassing myself??

I mean, geez. These stats couldn't have anything to do with the fact that most women soldiers aren't in combat arms, and hence have a lower risk of being KIA to begin with, could it?

Nah. Course not.

[InfinityGoddess]

Because soldiers are homicidal rapists, and we shouldn't sweep that under the rug, of course.



Except that it does get swept under the rug. That's why sexual assaults are so common in the military. Because the rapists get away with it.

Couple that with the fact that convicted felons have been recruited, and well, you have a whole mess of issues there in of itself.

[Robert Toy]

Couple that with the fact that convicted felons have been recruited, and well, you have a whole mess of issues there in of itself.
Source?

[Sheryl Nantus]

Source?

well, duh... EVERYONE knows the military is made up of killers, monsters and zombies.

haven't you been keeping up with the news?

:roll:

(and don't confuse the issue with facts!)

[CACTUSWENDY]

IG......I think you may have a few facts a bit wrong. At least % wise.

A can of worms I am sure you do not want to open up on these boards....lol

[InfinityGoddess]

Source?

IG......I think you may have a few facts a bit wrong. At least % wise.

A can of worms I am sure you do not want to open up on these boards....lol


http://www.pamshouseblend.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=753

I hardly call it a "can of worms" when it's actually happening.

[Sheryl Nantus]

I doubt IG's ever actually met anyone serving in any branch of the armed forces.

it's easier to make general statements and lump people together when they're just numbers and faceless entities - that way you don't have to deal with them as people and all that patriotism silliness on the side.

:D

and, after all, when a person makes an error and goes to jail we don't let them get on with their life - we should be harassing them to the bitter end!

(isn't that a bit of a contradiction for all the liberals who shout that once you serve the time, the crime is forgotten...)

[InfinityGoddess]

I doubt IG's ever actually met anyone serving in any branch of the armed forces.

it's easy to make general statements and lump people together when they're just numbers and faceless entities - that way you don't have to deal with them as people and all that patriotism silliness on the side.

:D

Uh, excuse me, but I have a retired Navy Commander for a father, a grandfather who was in the Navy in WWII, a great-aunt who was a WAVE, and a step-grandfather who was in the Army in WWII.

I was born on a US Naval base in Yokosuka overseas. I've already stated before that I was a Navy brat. Furthermore, I have a friend who was a Navy SEAL who was injured in our current conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan and is still having hip problems and issues with the VA.

So yes, in fact I do know people who are at least vets at this point, if not active-duty. And yes, all of them have admitted that there are bad apples in every bunch. That includes the US Armed Forces.

[Sheryl Nantus]

Uh, excuse me, but I have a retired Navy Commander for a father, a grandfather who was in the Navy in WWII, a great-aunt who was a WAVE, and a step-grandfather who was in the Army in WWII.

I was born on a US Naval base in Yokosuka overseas. I've already stated before that I was a Navy brat. Furthermore, I have a friend who was a Navy SEAL who was injured in our current conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan and is still having hip problems and issues with the VA.

So yes, in fact I do know people who are at least vets at this point, if not active-duty. And yes, all of them have admitted that there are bad apples in every bunch. That includes the US Armed Forces.

and yet you focus in on the negative few while ignoring the majority, including many on this board, who have served proudly and done their duty, including your own family?

shame, girl... for shame.

[Terran]

I served and am still serving in the Marine Corps for over 10 years. I have never raped anyone and I don't know anyone who has.

It happens, that is a certainty but when you compare instances of rape with KIA statistics that seems like half-assed research to me.

La-Times should be ashamed.

[Toothpaste]

I'm sorry, when did anyone draw the conclusion that because of this article all soldiers are evil rapists? I think Bravo was just posting an article to discuss, and it turned into a hate message towards the armed forces. Fact is, or at least fact is according to this article, that there are some rapes in the army, and that they often are swept under the carpet. Not a single person said, "soldiers are horrible rapists" nor do I think that was Bravo's intent on starting this thread. Yet people were immediately on the uber defensive as if that had been the point.

The positives are spoken of quite often here. Are we not allowed to point out the negatives in the army as well? Does that automatically put someone in the "not with us therefore against us" category? Can't we discuss rather why what is happening in the article is happening, is the article even accurate, what should the military be doing etc, instead of turning this into an afront against the military which I just don't see it as being?

[Bravo]

and yet you focus in on the negative few while ignoring the majority, including many on this board, who have served proudly and done their duty, including your own family?


where did she do that here?

[Bird of Prey]

I fail to understand how pointing out that female soldiers have been raped by fellow military and that it has gone largely ignored has ANYTHING to do with whether the military is for the most part, a noble organization.

For those who object to the point, why?

Female recruits should not be fearful nor assaulted nor should their attackers be above the law simply to maintain the untarnished image of the military.

[Bravo]

Source?

they have made the rules more flexible for ex-cons but i'm not sure if those rules were bent for felons. i havent really read anything about that. here's what i have read before:

In 2004, the Pentagon published a "Moral Waiver Study," whose seemingly benign goal was "to better define relationships between pre-Service behaviors and subsequent Service success." That turned out to mean opening more recruitment doors to potential enlistees with criminal records.
In February, the Baltimore Sun wrote that there was "a significant increase in the number of recruits with what the Army terms 'serious criminal misconduct' in their background" -- a category that included "aggravated assault, robbery, vehicular manslaughter, receiving stolen property and making terrorist threats." From 2004 to 2005, the number of those recruits rose by more than 54 percent, while alcohol and illegal drug waivers, reversing a four-year decline, increased by more than 13 percent.



http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2006/10/01/ING42LCIGK1.DTL

the larger issue is that the reports are being swept under the rug. stories about military leaders failing to protect the women serving under them have been reported for many years now, and little if anything has changed.

this isnt just a problem in america's armed forces, but obviously it's a problem that can addressed much much better within the military than it has been. there's still very much a macho culture, and a sense that you're a traitor if you rat someone out.

outside of the military branch, contractors have also been abusive towards their women workers:

A Houston, Texas woman says she was gang-raped by Halliburton/KBR coworkers in Baghdad, and the company and the U.S. government are covering up the incident.

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/Story?id=3977702&page=1

“If you wanted to get a promotion you didn’t necessarily have to have the qualifications,” remembered Lindsey, a former KBR contractor. “You just needed to be sleeping with the person who was doing the hiring.” […]
In a sworn affidavit for the Jones case, Lindsey said: “I saw rampant sexual harassment and discrimination.” […]
Her affidavit also said: “When anyone would report an incident of abuse or harassment, they would be threatened with a transfer to a more dangerous location.”


http://www.khou.com/topstories/stories/khou071214_tj_kbrfolo.176e684a.html

[Bravo]

didn't bother to read the article
but i found 2 pence in my pocket so:
this is because al qaeda widows will not "love you long time" prostitute themselves and take advantage of the market. they should as it is against the law for them to work for a living and now that they're widows... problem is they'll literally loose their heads.

i honestly want to know what the heck you're talking about here.

was this an attempt at humor?

if so, cool.

if not say so...

[johnnysannie]

Uh, excuse me, but I have a retired Navy Commander for a father, a grandfather who was in the Navy in WWII, a great-aunt who was a WAVE, and a step-grandfather who was in the Army in WWII.

I was born on a US Naval base in Yokosuka overseas. I've already stated before that I was a Navy brat. Furthermore, I have a friend who was a Navy SEAL who was injured in our current conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan and is still having hip problems and issues with the VA.

So yes, in fact I do know people who are at least vets at this point, if not active-duty. And yes, all of them have admitted that there are bad apples in every bunch. That includes the US Armed Forces.

A few bad apples doesn't mean that the entire crop is rotten.

[Bravo]

who said that it does?

am i just totally missing something she said here?

was there another argument somewhere where she said so?

and why am i still a pink cow?

[Horseshoes]

For folks who haven't investigated sexual assault crimes for a living, that stats on reports to prosecutions is indeed staggering and it is easy to casually draw conclusions about what the gross disparity between reports and convictions means.

I've done those investigations for a living, adult and child victims. They are verr verr hard. Every time I nailed a pedophile, I was happy to know I'd saved another 50-100 kids, as the avg kiddie diddler has himself a pile o' victims, but do you know how few people I nailed? A bit easier, I found, w/ adults, but again, compared to reports taken, startlingly few will result in a convictions. Huge numbers of reasons why. Huge.
But here ya go:









When I was a full time Crimes Against Children investigator, I arrested an average of


1-2 people/month.

And it was a good, respectable average. Sorry, but true. It's a sorry deal all around.

[Robert Toy]

http://www.pamshouseblend.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=753

I hardly call it a "can of worms" when it's actually happening.


The Source you provided is summarized as follows:

Distribution of Moral Waivers by Level of Waiver - Fiscal Year - 2006
Waiver Type(s)
Felony: 1,605
Serious Non-Traffic: 13,895
Minor Non-Traffic: 2,446
Serious Traffic: 466
Minor Traffic: 1,086
Drug: 14,978

DoD Total: 34,476

As of April 2007, about 1,426,700 people are on active duty in the military with an additional 1,458,500 people in the seven reserve components.

Before we do a little math, the one major item missing is the gender of the person given the waiver, i.e. how many were men and how many were woman? I’ll be a sexist and say they are all evil men.

Using just the active duty military = 1,426,700
Total Military Wavier Category Percent
1,605 Felony 0.112%
13,895 Serious Non-Traffic 0.974%
2,446 Minor Non-Traffic 0.171%
466 Serious Traffic 0.033%
1,086 Minor Traffic 0.076%
14,978 Drug 1.050%

Total Waivers 34,476 = 2.416%

If you want to count that some of the Waivers were granted to reserve personnel, the number falls below 1.2% of TOTAL waivers.

If I get the time, I MAY try and find out the exact breakdown of the gender and nature of the acts.

[Cranky]

My issue with this ridiculous article is not the fact that women in the military have been raped or otherwise sexually assaulted by their supposed comrades.

What I had a problem with was this ridiculous comparison between the two statistics, for shock purposes. "Oh my gosh, a woman has to worry more about her fellow soldiers than the enemy!"

It's ridiculous, and it promotes distrust. It puts men and women, once again, into an us vs. them scenario which is out of place in the military. We're all in it together.

None of this says that rapes should not be investigated throughly and the perpetrators punished. In fact, if they catch a military rapist, I hope they give them life, because in addition to that crime, they have breached a special trust between themselves and a fellow servicemember.

[InfinityGoddess]

and yet you focus in on the negative few while ignoring the majority, including many on this board, who have served proudly and done their duty, including your own family?

shame, girl... for shame.

A few bad apples doesn't mean that the entire crop is rotten.

I'm not focusing on the negative. This is the ugly fact that sexual assault, both in the military and in civilian life, is among the least most reported crimes, and also among the least prosecuted, even if reported (especially if it's "acquaintance" rape, as opposed to the "stranger in the dark alley" rape).

As I've said before, there are bad apples in every bunch. Just because it's being pointed out that they exist in the military, doesn't mean I don't think that there aren't those who have served honorably. My family certainly has.

[Bravo]

you forgot to insert a condescending ":D" smiley at the end of your post, IG.

shame on you.

[InfinityGoddess]

The positives are spoken of quite often here. Are we not allowed to point out the negatives in the army as well?

Apparently not.

you forgot to insert a condescending ":D" smiley at the end of your post, IG.

shame on you.

Eh, I'm not evil enough, I guess. ;)

[Dawno]

Make the focus of this thread the article, the facts of the article and the statistics used in the article or any other damn thing relating to the topic but DO NOT make it about any other AW member. Any more sniping at each other and out comes the lock.

Thank you.

[small axe]

"Boys will be boys" ... ???

If that doesn't reveal a societal and a cultural decay, I don't know what would.

Let the boys be boys, and let rapists be prosecuted and jailed. If military loyalty needs to be maintained by letting one part of the military prey upon the other, then the enemy is within.

If the Military is asking ANYONE to risk their lives defending their country, then they owe those soldiers (male and female) Justice, and to defend them from such threats. Period.

Failing that, let a few victims use their M-16's on the rapist pricks.

[JacobWorld]

Boys can be raped too. I heard of cases like this.

[bluntforcetrauma]

Violating a woman isn't a statistic. It's an unforgivable crime. You can't take it back. You can't un-rape a woman. To rape a female is to kill a part of her. My sister in law was raped. She has never been the same. The scumbag slipped through the justice system and lived to brag about his exploits. He's dead now, rot his soul.

I believe the civilian stats are much the same. Don't forget there are women who never report this heinous crime. Sorry if it lit my fuse, but rapists should be castrated. The hard way.

[efreysson]

I believe the civilian stats are much the same. Don't forget there are women who never report this heinous crime. Sorry if it lit my fuse, but rapists should be castrated. The hard way.

Speaking as a man, I completely agree.

[InfinityGoddess]

Violating a woman isn't a statistic. It's an unforgivable crime. You can't take it back. You can't un-rape a woman. To rape a female is to kill a part of her. My sister in law was raped. She has never been the same. The scumbag slipped through the justice system and lived to brag about his exploits. He's dead now, rot his soul.



My own rapist got away with his crime because state law said that the rape had to be violent (my case was coerced). So while the prosecutors believed me, they had to drop the case. But they also said they'd keep an eye on him in case he did it again to someone else.

These days, I just take my healing process one day at a time.

[Gary]

In my 20-plus years in the Air Force, I never knew of a rape, nor was there even a rumor, but I did know people killed in combat.

FWIW, we had a Commander in Chief accused of rape, but the case was never prosecuted.

[Bravo]

yet another KBR rape case (warning, graphic details below):


It was an early January morning in 2008 when 42-year-old Lisa Smith*, a paramedic for a defense contractor in southern Iraq, woke up to find her entire room shaking....
That dawn, naked, covered in blood and feces, bleeding from her anus, she found a U.S. soldier she did not know lying naked in the bed next to her: His gun lay on the floor beside the bed, she could not rouse him and all she could remember of the night before was screaming and screaming as the soldier anally penetrated her while a colleague who worked for defense contractor KBR held her hand -- but instead of helping her, as she had hoped, he jammed his penis in her mouth.

http://www.alternet.org/reproductivejustice/81266/

and look!

it looks like nikegoddess posts over at alternet as well:

If we can look the other way while female “employees” are raped, why can’t we open gov’t funed bordellos, get the whole thing out in the open, and then look the other way. That, in and of itself, would be the greatest protection for those females hoping to take advantage of the lucrative oportunities available to them in the war zone, while at the same time creating another lucrative oportunity for the women who want to make money in the sex trade. Simple solution. Police the approved houses of ilrepute, give the whores medical attention, and away we go.

scumbags.

[HeronW]

Tailhook anyone? Fact is certain males resent females serving in any branch of the armed forces. It has nothing to do with patriotism, with protecting your country, or with honor. It all has to do with power over someone seen as inferior. Most rapes are done by a small portion of the population who are repeat offenders, just like a handful of child molesters can rack up hundreds of assaults and be caught/prosecuted for a tiny percentage.