Obama: Had Wright Not Retired, I'd Have Left Church...

[sandyn]

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/03/28/obama-had-wright-not-retired-id-have-left-church/

Interesting, eh? It just goes on and on and on...:e2smack:

[mscelina]

Well, isn't that lovely. Good for Obama finally being able to 'discover' this aspect of Mr. Wright after 20 years. It's not that I have a problem with sleeping in church, but apparently the church bulletin was tossed into the trash as well. "Why should we concede the right of Israel to exist?" niiiiiiiiiiice. And the bomb Israel created 'to kill blacks and Arabs.' Never heard of a race-determining explosive device, but hey! A church in Chicago would obviously have more information about that than a gal who studies international politics as a hobby.

Pfffffffffffffffft. Don't believe a word of it. Obama could not possibly have remained ignorant of this for two decades. Gimme a break--and two Tylenol.

[Cranky]

Well, isn't that lovely. Good for Obama finally being able to 'discover' this aspect of Mr. Wright after 20 years. It's not that I have a problem with sleeping in church, but apparently the church bulletin was tossed into the trash as well. "Why should we concede the right of Israel to exist?" niiiiiiiiiiice. And the bomb Israel created 'to kill blacks and Arabs.' Never heard of a race-determining explosive device, but hey! A church in Chicago would obviously have more information about that than a gal who studies international politics as a hobby.

Pfffffffffffffffft. Don't believe a word of it. Obama could not possibly have remained ignorant of this for two decades. Gimme a break--and two Tylenol.

Tylenol will kill your liver. Have a Motrin. :D

That said, yeah. This was more stupid from Obama. What a letdown. Ah wells. I wasn't going to vote for him, anyway, but I really liked the speech he made because of the issue.

*shrug*

[TheGaffer]

This whole saga was dying down -- but not anymore.

[Roger J Carlson]

I believe his statement is completely true. Unfortunately, what he doesn't say is if he would have left the church because the statements deeply offended him or because it would have hurt his candidacy to remain a member.

[TheGaffer]

I believe his statement is completely true. Unfortunately, what he doesn't say is if he would have left the church because the statements deeply offended him or because it would have hurt his candidacy to remain a member.

And that's the reality, isn't it? After all, if you're an ambitious young politician and this is your base, well...

[donroc]

Next we shall learn if he truly is a fair Weatherman friend.

[mscelina]

I believe his statement is completely true. Unfortunately, what he doesn't say is if he would have left the church because the statements deeply offended him or because it would have hurt his candidacy to remain a member.

*blinks* Roger, you honestly believe that he never read the church bulletin? Or that when he attended church the sermon was adapted tp protect his political sensibilities? Seriously?

And I think we all know that Obama is, at this point, more concerned about his political future than anything else. That's a gimme--he's running for President of the United States.

[Takvah]

What a strong stance from Barack! After twenty years of hate he decided enough was enough! The man is a hero, there is NOTHING he won't take on!

:roll:

Would somebody kindly help me free my tongue from my cheek! *snickers*

[William Haskins]

it's probably the first time in his adult life that he's refused to vote "present".

[johnnysannie]

*blinks* Roger, you honestly believe that he never read the church bulletin? Or that when he attended church the sermon was adapted tp protect his political sensibilities? Seriously?

And I think we all know that Obama is, at this point, more concerned about his political future than anything else. That's a gimme--he's running for President of the United States.

I certainly can't speak for Obama or anyone else but there are many people who never read the church bulletin. ( I do ) At my church so few people actually pick it up and read it that they have considered discontinuing it completely but they haven't. They did cut down on the number printed and put it online as well so people who want to can read it but there was a lot of debate centered around how many people did not read the bulletin at all.

And yes, at this point, Obama is more concerned about staying in the race for President. Who wouldn't be? The big question is whether or not he is sincere that he would have left the church had Wright not retired. I tend to believe he is sincere but I agree with Roger (this may be the first time;) ) that we don't know if it is truly that he objected to what was said or because he feared the association will harm his candidacy. And we will most likely never know for certain.

The focus needs to return to the major issues that are at stake in this election.

[donroc]

Like character and believability too.

[Takvah]

it's probably the first time in his adult life that he's refused to vote "present".

AHHHHHHHH! HAHAHAH!

[William Haskins]

http://www.caglecartoons.com/images/preview/%7B94F1C029-7BE7-438C-B29F-4F71E4393E82%7D.gif

[sandyn]

Like character and believability too.

Amen, brother. Amen. :D

EDIT: The biggest problem I have with all of this is Sen. Obama's platform is 'change.' Thus far, it has been one of 'change', but unfortunately more the 'change my mind, change my position' rather than true change. He's a politician, like all the others...he just hasn't been around long enough to have all the skeletons the others have. But give him time.

[mscelina]

Dang, Haskins--that cartoon is FUNNY!

[johnnysannie]

Like character and believability too.

Both areas that Hillary Clinton should work on, more so than Obama IMHO.

[donroc]

Agreed about Hillary too, but this thread is discussing Obama.

[johnnysannie]

Agreed about Hillary too, but this thread is discussing Obama.

True enough but to keep things in perspective, it would seem only fair to mention that Hillary has her sins as well.

[Robert Toy]

Jimmy only sinned in his heart.

[Roger J Carlson]

*blinks* Roger, you honestly believe that he never read the church bulletin? Or that when he attended church the sermon was adapted tp protect his political sensibilities? Seriously?Never said that. You misunderstand. Let's look at his exact quote:

"Had the reverend not retired and had he not acknowledged that what he had said had deeply offended people and were inappropriate and mischaracterized what I believe is the greatness of this country, for all its flaws, then I wouldn't have felt comfortable staying there at the church," the senator said.

This is completely factual. He probably would have left the church if the pastor had not retired. But he doesn't say why he wouldn't have been comfortable. Because it deeply offended him? (BTW, he said "deeply offended people", not himself) Or was it because it would have hurt his candidacy?

[WendyNYC]

He really needs to stop responding about Rev. Wright and just let it die. The more he talks, the more obvious it is that he's trying to have it both ways.

[mscelina]

Never said that. You misunderstand. Let's look at his exact quote:

"Had the reverend not retired and had he not acknowledged that what he had said had deeply offended people and were inappropriate and mischaracterized what I believe is the greatness of this country, for all its flaws, then I wouldn't have felt comfortable staying there at the church," the senator said.

This is completely factual. He probably would have left the church if the pastor had not retired. But he doesn't say why he wouldn't have been comfortable. Because it deeply offended him? (BTW, he said "deeply offended people", not himself) Or was it because it would have hurt his candidacy?

Ah yes, I see. I took your statement out of context. Mea culpa and I agree completely.

*see, folks? I can admit it when I'm wrong*

[donroc]

Surely, Wright, so passionate a man, could not avoid expressing his rage often in private conversations with his intimates, protégé, and acolytes, which includes the Obamas.

Preacher man is closer to Farrakhan than to God imnsho.

[WendyNYC]

I've noticed that Michelle Obama has been silent recently. I wonder what she has to say about Wright.

[mscelina]

Her husband probably super glued her mouth shut. A good thing for all concerned.

[Roger J Carlson]

You know, I have a very old and dear pastor friend (well into his 90s) who has some less than politically correct ideas that stem from his youth. It was a very different time. When I talk to him, I steer clear of some topics on which we disagree. I would not repudiate him as a friend and a person, even though I find some of his ideas distasteful. In other ways, he is a remarkably loving and kind man.

I believe this is what Obama is trying to portray, but to me it just doesn't wash.

First of all, it's impossible that Obama did not at some time hear Wright's rantings. Simply impossible. Anyone who is intimately aquainted with another for 20 years must have known, just as I do with my pastor friend.

Secondly, my pastor friend is not the senior pastor and when he does preach, he sticks to the Gospel, leaving his other ideas behind. If he ever actually preached this stuff, I would not be able to stay. And if he did preach it while I was not there, I would certainly hear about it from others.

I think Obama is trying to have it both ways; keep the black voters who believe as Wright does, and reassure the white voters who don't. In other words, a classic two-faced politician. Is this the kind of change and hope he wants to bring to Washington?

[RumpleTumbler]

I think the far right is beating this to death because they think McCain can beat Hillary but they are afraid of Obama.

[mscelina]

Well said, Roger.

same to you Rumple.

both are IMO accurate portrayals of what is going on here. I felt from the beginning of Obama's announced intentions to run for office that at some point the racial issues would rise to the forefront. I hoped they wouldn't, but it was a faint hope. Now everyone is trying to manipulate the race card in their favor, and I'm not certain who will win. Interesting to watch, but ultimately dismaying to witness.

[sassandgroove]

Rumple you don't think Hillary leaked it?

[RumpleTumbler]

Rumple you don't think Hillary leaked it?

She benefits from it but I think the right likely are the discoverers and the ones perpetuating this discussion. She looks saintly by keeping mostly quiet about it. She doesn't have to say anything. They'll scream it loud and long for her.

[johnnysannie]

I think the far right is beating this to death because they think McCain can beat Hillary but they are afraid of Obama.

I think that is a fair enough statement. I don't think Hillary can beat McCain but Obama might just pull it off. So of course that scares the Repubulican right.

[johnnysannie]

Jimmy only sinned in his heart.

But it was lust.....lusted after women in his heart.......

[William Haskins]

I think the far right is beating this to death because they think McCain can beat Hillary but they are afraid of Obama.

vast rightwing conspiracy, eh?

no.

google obama + jeremiah wright.

it's all over the mainstream media, from local network affiliate sites to NPR. everywhere.

nice try though.

[RumpleTumbler]

vast rightwing conspiracy, eh?

no.

google obama + jeremiah wright.

it's all over the mainstream media, from local network affiliate sites to NPR. everywhere.

nice try though.

Now I'm wondering if you couldn't have done the same thing with kerry + swift vets a few years ago.

[TheGaffer]

Rumple you don't think Hillary leaked it?

If it's an interview to be aired later, it's not really a leak. These kinds of advance things come out all the time.

[InfinityGoddess]

I think the far right is beating this to death because they think McCain can beat Hillary but they are afraid of Obama.


They're a little late on beating this drum, though. Had they done it before Hillary had little chance of surpassing Obama in the delegate count, it might have worked. But it hasn't and Obama's regaining what ground he lost before the speech he gave in response to Wright's sermons. But of course, you can't fault those people for trying. :P

[sassandgroove]

Didn't you see Williams post, IG? It isn't 'those people' that are beating the drum.

And Gaffer! :) It was just a figure of speech...

[William Haskins]

keep in mind that the comment obama made in the interview referenced in the OP is from 'the view', which admittedly is just to the right of the john birch society.

[InfinityGoddess]

Didn't you see Williams post, IG? It isn't 'those people' that are beating the drum.


Corporate media and "vast right wing conspiracy". There's not much of a difference in my mind, because the pundits kiss up to them.

[William Haskins]

it had broad appeal across all media because it sought to reconcile the hilariously contradictory images of a self-appointed "post-racial" candidate with a man who represents a backward-looking racial animosity.

[sassandgroove]

corporate media is not right wing.

[MattW]

Didn't Oprah leave the same church because she didn't agree with the views being spouted? Then Wright went on to blast the Queen of All.

How does that Oprah feel about her support of Obama now?

[Mom'sWrite]

I think Obama is trying to have it both ways; keep the black voters who believe as Wright does, and reassure the white voters who don't. In other words, a classic two-faced politician. Is this the kind of change and hope he wants to bring to Washington?

A two-faced politician in Washington? That's not a change in Washington, that's the entry fee.

[InfinityGoddess]

corporate media is not right wing.

I said they "kiss up to it", not that they are. You'd be very hard-pressed to find someone who doesn't bring on a Pat Buchanan or a Tony Perkins or whomever on a daily basis just to get their "analysis" on a Democratic race when really, they should be asking someone who's a Democratic, liberal, or neutral party analyst on that. Trying to get a Republican's analysis on a Democratic race is relatively pointless, because naturally, they're going in with biased opinions. A Democrat might be biased, but at least they know better about the inner workings of the party better than some Republican operative.

[Snowstorm]

Ironic. When I heard of Obama running for president and heard all the pundits say there was no way a black man could be elected president, I considered that white racists would prevent his being elected. Never imagined that a black racist would jeopardize his rise.

I expect him to be elected but his blush is certainly off the rose. Alas.

[TheGaffer]

it had broad appeal across all media because it sought to reconcile the hilariously contradictory images of a self-appointed "post-racial" candidate with a man who represents a backward-looking racial animosity.


True.

And it's the toughest issue Obama faces, at least right now.

Personally I don't believe Obama shares the views of his pastor -- and some of his acceptance of this church probably comes from the political ambition and some from merely liking Rev. Wright - as he discussed in his speech.

But he's clearly having a hard time walking this line right now. I'm not sure how legitimate it is, this ongoing discussion. On one hand, Wright isn't running for President, and we also can't be sure how much influence he has had over Obama (thinking of it in reverse, some people were comforted by George W. Bush having had George H.W. Bush as a father, particularly due to his generally well-rounded views on foreign policy. But we see now how useless that was, as the younger didn't learn anything from him at all, basically). And Obama's own words don't suggest that he holds similar views, either. Which in some ways makes the rest subterfuge.

On the other hand Wright was a big part of his life for a long time, and it takes a long time to come to grips with disagreeing with - even in a personal, silent way, in your own heart - with what someone so significant in your life thinks. I feel I've thrown off most of the rhetorical nonsense my parents may have engaged in about various issues and kept what was valuable, and I'm 34. So maybe Obama has worked past it in his own mind as well -- because he is such a smart human being.

And while he made an admirable effort at contextualizing all of this in his speech, clearly the issue isn't dying, at least not yet. (Then again, Clinton keeps bringing it up, which in a way is evidence that it is dying down.)

[NikeeGoddess]

This whole saga was dying down -- but not anymore.(Then again, Clinton keeps bringing it up, which in a way is evidence that it is dying down.)
quite the contrary, i haven't seen evidence that clinton keeps bringing it up. i attended a speech she gave at constitution hall just the other day and she only had good things to say about obama.

personally, i don't want to see obama go down because of wright. i want him to go down because hillary is the better man* for the job. *as jack nicholson puts it ;)