Profanity through first person narration?

sportacus · Mar 19, 2008

I was just wondering if anyone here has done a first person narration where the MC is, by nature, quite profain. My MC in my WIP is that way, and I'm just wondering if anyone or everyone here thinks it's appropriate to refer to a lot of rain as a 'sh*tload', or to tell people to f*ck off often. I also would like to know whether the amount of profanity varies a lot from what's said in narration to what's actually said aloud.

Thanks.

Edit: The intended audience is ranging from young adults on upwards.

Stew21 · Mar 19, 2008

My MC uses profanity. It is written in "his voice". that is the way he speaks. it is the way the narration has to read if I want it written in his voice.

taloom · Mar 19, 2008

Your character could be like an GF of mine: she put the word "f*ck" in every sentence: "Let's go to McF*ckingDonalds" or "Enclof*ckapedia"

Valona · Mar 19, 2008

Then again, I think, especially for YA, the use of profanity can be overdone. Kids get enough of that in their daily lives. Wouldn't it be nice, just once in a while, to be able to get away from all that trash talk?

I realize some writers feel it's necessary, but to use it in every sentence is a bit much, IMO.

James81 · Mar 19, 2008

I don't mind profanity (and I use a lot of it in my writing--to the point I have to consciously pull back sometimes and cut back), but it depends on what audience you are looking for.

The broadest audience for you writing you can get, would be using PG type language. If you don't care about narrowing your audience to older adults, then use it as you wish.

Lifelongdagger · Mar 19, 2008

The MC in my WIP swears a lot. He is a very angry, obnoxious individual. For me to write him without him swearing just wouldn't make sense. Every time he swears, however, it is connected with an emotion, usually anger, but sometimes desperation. I think to swear in every other sentence as if it is just part of the vernacular of his speech, even though some people do talk like this, does not translate well in literary terms. I think it is a bit like dialogue. If our characters spoke exactly as 'real' people speak, their speeches would be littered with ums, ahs, ers, and the like. Instead, we alter it to fit in literary terms, perhaps making it more concise or more dramatic than it might otherwise be. Swearing, I think, is the same. If it fits the character, use it, but connect it with an emotion, otherwise it is just gratuitous and serves very little purpose.

ORION · Mar 19, 2008

One of my characters (a Vietnam vet) uses F*** a lot. I don't actually have him say it as much as have the other characters comment about his filthy language.
It gives the illusion that he says it more than he does-
There has to be a reason for the language - more than just characterization- otherwise it truly does get in the way of the story and o course it totally depends on your audience.

maestrowork · Mar 19, 2008

You do have to know your market. Obviously if you're writing for children, you shouldn't use profanity. YA is a bit tricky. Christian fiction may dictate certain things. But general adult fiction? F___ yeah, if it's done right, especially in 1st person.

WriteKnight · Mar 19, 2008

I highly reccomend "Motherless Brooklyn" by Jonathan Lethem. -

"A compelling and compulsive riff on the classic detective novel.
Lionel Essrog is Brooklyn's very own self appointed Human Freakshow, an orphan whose Toruettic impulses drive him to bark, count, and rip apart our language in startling and original ways." -

Including profanities that would make Philip Marlowe blush.

A terrific read, and the cursing as part of the character is fascinating and compelling. I'm not saying YOU'RE MC should suffer from it, just saying that if its an element of his character, go with it.

geardrops · Mar 19, 2008

Just bear in mind that swears are salient words. It's like saying "Inconceivable!" over and over. People are going to notice because it's not an invisible word like "a" or "the" or "said."

Go ahead and swear. Just make sure the swears don't overstay their welcome.

(This is coming from someone with the mouth of a fscking sailor.)

sportacus · Mar 19, 2008

Here are a couple examples from my WIP:

“Hey Troy, what the f*ck is taking you so long?” It was Jack’s voice from downstairs. “I’m just loading up, jack*ss!” I shouted in response.

Follow it?! Why the hell should we follow it? Realizing the futility of only thinking this question to myself, I asked “Why the F*CK should we follow it?!”

KTC · Mar 19, 2008

Motherless Brooklyn absolutely frickin' rocks! I love that book.

I use profanity where it is warranted. I don't believe in not using it. I don't believe in drenching my work with it. When my characters insist on using it, I allow it. Authenticity.

lute · Mar 19, 2008

It's strange, because I don't swear much when speaking in real life. But I do when I'm thinking

I think it would be realistic to have your character narrating their thoughts and using swearing. If you're writing YA and upwards, I would probably hold off on a full on assult of cursing because it can get to be over the top. If a character swears ten times within his thoughts during the first three pages of the book, the reader will get the hint that they use it often, and I don't think it would be necessary to include it in everything they say or think.

Cat Scratch · Mar 19, 2008

If it's authentic to your character, then use it. Nothing takes me out of a novel faster than a bad-*ss character who says "Oh, shoot" because the author was uncomfortable using profanity.

David I · Mar 19, 2008

sportacus said:
I also would like to know whether the amount of profanity varies a lot from what's said in narration to what's actually said aloud.

I don't see any likely difference in the amount of profanity a first-character narrator would be likely to use in narration as opposed to the same narrator would have in their dialogue.

That said, however, I think that profanity is very easily overdone. The protagonist of my novel Shock and Awe--a woman BTW--has a vocabulary that would make a sailor blush. But there is less profanity in her dialogue than I think is realistic.

That's because dialogue isn't supposed to be realistic.

To give a less charged example than "fuck": Like, you know how some people, like, can't finish a single sentence without at least one "like." It's, like, irritatiting.

If you report the speech of such a person realistically you will make your reader crazy. If you throw in just a few, the reader will get the idea; a few seems like a lot on the page.

The same with "Well," and "umm..." and "y'know" and all the rest. Readers expect far more vocabulary diversity in dialogue that you will find in real life.

(Just for fun, I checked my book as published. In 520 manuscript pages, there are 92 fucks, 33 Christs, and 32 shits. These tend to occur clustered on the same pages. If I had to hazard a guess, I'd estimate that profanity occurs on one out of every ten pages--but it feels like a lot more than that.)

KTC · Mar 19, 2008

92 fucks! Holy. I thought I was bad. I checked and I had 28. lol. Congrats.

Expanding Ink · Mar 19, 2008

Cat Scratch said:
If it's authentic to your character, then use it. Nothing takes me out of a novel faster than a bad-*ss character who says "Oh, shoot" because the author was uncomfortable using profanity.

Ditto. IMHO, you have to be true to your characters first and foremost. If your character has a dirty mouth/mind, that should probably come across in the writing. Plus, the use of profanity can reveal something about your characters - they probably want to, at the very least, give the appearance of being cool and tough.

On the other hand, since you are writing for the YA audience, you might want to temper it a bit. I'm not sure how it's set up now, but maybe you could restrict the profanity to a certain character or two or a certain situation. Plus, speaking as someone who lives with 2 YA boys, it doesn't really take much profanity to get them excited about a story. You don't necessarily have to go overboard - just dropping in a few choice words will make them think that your characters, and your story, are worth the effort.

Oh, and it could eventually keep parents and schoolboards from freaking out. Unless, of course, that is your intended effect - in which case, I salute you, Mr. Sportacus, and wish you luck.

cletus · Mar 19, 2008

David I said:
That said, however, I think that profanity is very easily overdone. The protagonist of my novel Shock and Awe--a woman BTW--has a vocabulary that would make a sailor blush. But there is less profanity in her dialogue than I think is realistic.

When you have an ex-Army protaginist drunk in a sex shop and kicking a bunch of guys' asses by the end of chapter 1, she doesn't need to swear too much to get an idea of her character.

David I · Mar 19, 2008

cletus said:
When you have an ex-Army protaginist drunk in a sex shop and kicking a bunch of guys' asses by the end of chapter 1, she doesn't need to swear too much to get an idea of her character.

Yikes! You've read the book, (or at least the first chapter)!

You'll notice that I say things like yikes. But I'm not Carla...

cletus · Mar 19, 2008

David I said:
Yikes! You've read the book, (or at least the first chapter)!

Only the first chapter...too much swearing, had to put it down.

Received it for Christmas (it was on my list) and read it cover to cover. Good read, I love an intelligent thriller.

Nakhlasmoke · Mar 20, 2008

Eeek, I just checked, 30 fucks in a 60k YA novel. Hmmm.

And I toned her down. Sadly this is the only character I've written who speaks like I do.

Yanno what. Go for it. If it works, you'll know. If everyone turns around and says I had to put this down because there were too many swearwords in it, then you might have a small problem. Albeit one that is pretty easily rectified.

ink wench · Mar 20, 2008

Nakhlasmoke said:
If it works, you'll know. If everyone turns around and says I had to put this down because there were too many swearwords in it, then you might have a small problem. Albeit one that is pretty easily rectified.

Pretty much, and as a first cut if it annoys you, then you know something's got to give. My MC swears like a sailor in the beginning of my story (before she's forced to work on her manners), but after a few chapters her potty mouth got on my nerves. My delete key became like a little soap in the mouth. What's interesting is that I'm not sure she lost all that much character because of it. It's still quite clear that she's an uneducated, foul-mouthed urchin. I just don't have to listen to it anymore.

melaniehoo · Mar 20, 2008

In my memoir I don't say it a lot, but enough. Probably twenty times in the entire book (including f#$%ing) but ten of them are all in a row.

ETA: I checked. I only say it ten times, six of which were in a row. I tend to exaggerate, sorry.

sportacus · Mar 20, 2008

I'm averaging 4 f*cks per chapter so far.

Mythica · Mar 20, 2008

I approve of profanity!

I think it's funny, but I've never taken profanity seriously. I'm too used to everyone around me cussing like sailors.

Profanity through first person narration?

Great Scott Member

Sailed away years ago

Fear the Death Ray

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Good thing I like my day job

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lute

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and then Steve stabbed a guy

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yes

ray of motherf#%&ing sunshine

And thus we begin the edits

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