No Dem do-over in Florida

[blacbird]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23680304

caw

[billythrilly7th]

Good.

Florida made a decision. The DNC made a decision.

And that's the end of it.

That's the way life is in a world where people take responsibility for their actions.

Not a liberal strong point.

But between Spitzer and now this, maybe the tide is turning a bit.

[choppersmom]

Good.

Florida made a decision. The DNC made a decision.

And that's the end of it.

That's the way life is in a world where people take responsibility for their actions.

Not a liberal strong point.

But between Spitzer and now this, maybe the tide is turning a bit.

We can only hope.

[brokenfingers]

Yeah, the Democratic party isn't exactly shining at the moment. They're looking more and more like the Keystone Cops.

They can't even handle the primary process and they want voters to vote for them? If not for Bush's atrocious handling of the office, they would have NO shot in hell right now - and they're even screwing that up!

[DoctorShade]

Florida is an idiot (not it's citizens), they really have to stop messing up the primaries. I bet Jeb Bush is sabotoging things so he can get another Republican in office ;)

[blacbird]

To reiterate something I posted elsewhere, that seems not to be common knowledge: The Republican administration and legislature in Florida is largely to blame for the Dem primary mess. They mandated the moving of the primary to the early date. So, they can either take credit or blame for that, depending on your viewpoint.

Frankly, Michigan is a bigger mess, and for that, the Michigan Democratic Party establishment has no one to blame but themselves. The DNC is actually handling these problems in a fairly competent way, so far. Michigan will have some form of do-over, and a delegation will be seated from Florida, via some DNC compromise decision.

caw

[robeiae]

To reiterate something I posted elsewhere, that seems not to be common knowledge: The Republican administration and legislature in Florida is largely to blame for the Dem primary mess. They mandated the moving of the primary to the early date. So, they can either take credit or blame for that, depending on your viewpoint.
"To blame"? Pffffft. What apparently is not common knowledge is that state legislators are not supposed to be serving the needs of the DNC or the RNC. Both parties are--imo--far too comfortable with their access to state election mechanisms for their primaries. They have no right to utilize state resources, much less dictate when states hold their elections. The primaries were not the only thing on the ballot. If the DNC and RNC don't like what the the legislature did, tough. Of course, both responded by penalizing their own membership in the State of Florida. Because, you know, they wanted to be fair.

The only "blame" around here rests with the political parties and their leadership...or lack thereof.

[blacbird]

"To blame"? Pffffft. What apparently is not common knowledge is that state legislators are not supposed to be serving the needs of the DNC or the RNC. Both parties are--imo--far too comfortable with their access to state election mechanisms for their primaries. They have no right to utilize state resources, much less dictate when states hold their elections. The primaries were not the only thing on the ballot. If the DNC and RNC don't like what the the legislature did, tough. Of course, both responded by penalizing their own membership in the State of Florida. Because, you know, they wanted to be fair.

The only "blame" around here rests with the political parties and their leadership...or lack thereof.

Oh, I'm quite sure Charlie Crist and the boys are all pretty gleeful at how they engineered this, so I'll give 'em credit for being politically clever. Now, given that, my sense is that Florida Dems didn't respond very sensibly to the situation they were confronted with. So now they get to deal with the hand they've been dealt, and the DNC is settling the hash. Probably not very good news for The Clintons, on balance, but not as bad a result as Michigan will be. That there was a real fiasco, made worse by Clinton's transparently self-serving attempt to take advantage of it, which has backfired horribly.

caw

[robeiae]

Oh, I'm quite sure Charlie Crist and the boys are all pretty gleeful at how they engineered this, so I'll give 'em credit for being politically clever.
Really? You think they planned it to work out just this way? They WANTED the RNC to strip Florida of half of its delegates? Really?

[blacbird]

What's the RNC got to do with this? I thought this was entirely a Dem thing? Or did you make a typo?

caw

[donroc]

Ball in Dean's court.

[blacbird]

Ball in Dean's court.

YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

caw

[robeiae]

What's the RNC got to do with this? I thought this was entirely a Dem thing? Or did you make a typo?

cawNo typo.

You seem to be suggesting that the republican Florida legislature and Governor somehow conspired in getting the primary date changed so it would have exactly the effect it is now having--that they knew the DNC would strip Florida of delegates, that it would make a mess of things, and that they were willing to risk having the RNC do a similar thing to Florida. Is that right?

[blacbird]

I am unaware that the RNC had any rule conflicting with moving the primary forward, the way the DNC did. But you can enlighten me, if you know. All I know is, when the primaries took place, the Republican delegates were being counted, no controversy involved, and the Dems were not.

caw

[robeiae]

I am unaware that the RNC had any rule conflicting with moving the primary forward, the way the DNC did. But you can enlighten me, if you know. All I know is, when the primaries took place, the Republican delegates were being counted, no controversy involved, and the Dems were not.

caw
http://politics.nytimes.com/election-guide/2008/results/states/FL.html

National party officials have decided to count only half of the delegates from Florida as a penalty for holding its primary earlier than allowed. All of the remaining 57 delegates will be awarded to the candidate with the most votes statewide.

You didn't know that?

[blacbird]

http://politics.nytimes.com/election-guide/2008/results/states/FL.html



You didn't know that?

Nope. Like I said, all I saw on the news coverage of that primary (several networks, from Fox to CNN to MSNBC) was that the Florida Repub results would count, and the Dem results would not. Hey, the night that happened, I was too busy trying to stay warm, so maybe I missed something. In any case, thanks for the update.

I have to note that, with the reduction in the delegate count, that the Repub primary in Florida was a winner-take-all, and that John McCain won it, and that, more than any other primary, this was the one that kicked him over the top toward the nomination. According to your link, if the entire delegate slate had been counted, it would have been at least somewhat proportionate. So, in the end, the reduction in the number of delegates didn't have the effect it would in a Dem primary, which is proportional. Which is why the proposed compromise in Florida for the Dems probably damages Clinton.

caw

[kristie911]

Frankly, Michigan is a bigger mess,

Tell me something I don't know. :Soapbox:

Tonight on the local news they were talking about how the Michigan Democrats were running a fundraiser so they can have another primary. I don't know, probably selling fucking candy bars or something.

The whole thing pisses me off. We voted once...can't we just be done with it? They fucked up and there are consequences for that. My theory is that Jen (s our wonderful governor s) didn't care about all this until Hillary wasn't doing so hot. Now suddenly the cushy DC job she was promised is in jeopardy so she's starting to panic.

I don't know what would be worse...keeping her as the governor or sending Jen to DC so she can screw up the whole nation.

[blacbird]

We voted once...can't we just be done with it?

No. Because Clinton reneged on a promise, and tried to steal the entirety of the Michigan Dem delegation. No way can that be an acceptable result. The argument from her camp about Michigan voters being "disenfranchised" is ludicrous. They're perfectly happy to disenfranchise Obama supporters, and, for that matter, Edwards supporters as well (his campaign was still active at the time of that "vote"). It was a crap exercise in political theater, at a time when "The Clintons" still believed they were entitled to the nomination and would have it wrapped up on Feb. 5 SuperTuesday.

Well, dang. Didn't work out that way, did it? Funny how much better off the Michigan Dems would be right now if they'd held off their primary until, say, end of March?

Funny how that exercise in futility confirms what Republicans have been saying about "The Clintons" all along, isn't it?

caw

[robeiae]

Which is why the proposed compromise in Florida for the Dems probably damages Clinton.
Sure. But it doesn't follow that Crist and company were up to something nefarious from the get-go. The Florida legislature changed the official voting day. If the the DNC and RNC didn't like it, they could have used their own resources to hold their own primaries whenever they so desired. "Blaming" Florida is a crock, just as "blaming" Michigan is. Blame the party leadership. They're the ones that deserve it.

[small axe]

Well, aren't there other states where their primaries are so late in the process that their voters usually don't have any real effect on choosing their party's nominee?

(Certainly there was an article in the news last week, suggesting that this would be the first time in nearly three decades where the candidates would be paying much attention to Indiana) ...

If it's the doom of Florida to have to sit and worry about the whims of Indiana, this one time ... so be it. Plus, even with Florida's original delegate count, it wouldn't have decided things without the Superdelegate scramble anyway, right?

It's a mess all around. Most important election in forever, and it's a snafu'd mess all around!

[donroc]

You should have seen the Eisenhower vs. Taft battle in 1952 regarding the seating of delegates. It was a political death struggle that eliminated the isolationist wing's dominance of the Republican Party. The first political convention I saw on TV too. Great theater.

[Roger J Carlson]

I don't know what would be worse...keeping her as the governor or sending Jen to DC so she can screw up the whole nation.Oh, I think she'd do far less damage on the national level. Sort of spreads it out. But then for that to happen, Hillary would have to be in office, so I'm torn too.

[Robert Toy]

It is going to be funny to listen to Obama and/or Clinton claiming their nomination was "stolen" because of the FU in Florida :D

[blacbird]

Sure. But it doesn't follow that Crist and company were up to something nefarious from the get-go. The Florida legislature changed the official voting day. If the the DNC and RNC didn't like it, they could have used their own resources to hold their own primaries whenever they so desired.

Actually, I'm not so sure of that. I heard that one of the problems blocking a Florida "do-over" was that it was illegal to fund an election privately, or something to that effect. Hey, I'm trying to give Crist more credit than you are. You should be happy.

caw

[Sheryl Nantus]

maybe Florida needs to have a major exorcism happen or something... them boys just never seem to catch a break!

:D

[talkwrite]

The article says that Florida dem party has handed the decision over to the DNC- specifically to the Rules Committee which meets in April.
One of two things will happen

A. Florida democrats Will be happy with the decision by this committee
B. Florida democrats Will NOT be happy with the decision by this committee

If B. happens Florida Dem's will have this discussion all over again.
Maybe they will boycott the National Convention, refuse the election to be held in Florida, secede from the United States, ( Although only Texas can do that constitutionally) annex Cuba and form a new nation which will be named one of two names
A. Floriduba
B. Cuborida

[brokenfingers]

The article says that Florida dem party has handed the decision over to the DNC- specifically to the Rules Committee which meets in April.
One of two things will happen

A. Florida democrats Will be happy with the decision by this committee
B. Florida democrats Will NOT be happy with the decision by this committee

If B. happens Florida Dem's will have this discussion all over again.
Maybe they will boycott the National Convention, refuse the election to be held in Florida, secede from the United States, ( Although only Texas can do that constitutionally) annex Cuba and form a new nation which will be named one of two names
A. Floriduba
B. CuboridaWhy not New Cuba?

Or Cubamerica?

Or maybe even Chadovia.

[small axe]

Or maybe even Chadovia.

Well, when the Bush Junta has its coup and takes over Chadovia, I'd hate to be the first one they try to hang for a crime.

Because ... as we know, they've always had trouble with hangings in Chadovia. :)

I reached for it for you, baby, it just wasn't there.

[talkwrite]

I do like Chadovia.
Do you think Chadovia would then qualify for international aid? Military support? And what about Disney World ?

[Gravity]

Given Florida's demographics, maybe Geezerania? Shuffleboardio? New ShortsSocksnSandals?

[donroc]

In Polk County where I reside, Obesia would work. Land of fried food. You name it; they fry it.

[talkwrite]

I can picture the new national flag: Florida with ragged edge at the border where it ripped itself from the US on one end and on the other end: the Florida Keys forming an alligator mouth about to swallow Cuba.The motto: Swim Free and Lie!