Debate 2/26

[Bravo]

gotta just say russert (whatever his name is) is such a tool.

this guy is going to give clinton the nomination with his alpha-male posturing.

"would you be willing to pull out of NAFTA in 6 months? Yes or no!"

what a crock.

he just keeps going at her.

great work russell.

who's idea was it to have two men be the news anchors tonite?

that guy is gonna get a kick in the balls if i ever see him.

[billythrilly7th]

Does Hillary think that incessant cackling is going to make her more likeable?

It's like having a dead mouse in your wall.

It stinks and it doesn't seem to be going away and it doesn't do anyone any good.

Especially the mouse.

[althrasher]

Is there live feed online anywhere? I lack cable.

[billythrilly7th]

I can't watch anymore.

Obama is doing such a good job and he's so close to the nomination that I'm too nervous to watch anymore.

Like a gold medal skate for an Olympian, just don't try a triple axle and fall, Obama.

"Do go for knockout, Apollo! You got it won!!"

[Sage]

The debate's on NBC, alt

[althrasher]

I don't have an antenna, either. So I really...have nothing.

[John Paton]

I don't have an antenna, either. So I really...have nothing.

you aint helping here, AllThrasher ;)

[althrasher]

you aint helping here, AllThrasher ;)

Hahah, it's my goal to make life as difficult as possible for myself.

But MSNBC claims I can watch it online. The page hasn't loaded yet...

[William Haskins]

try here:

http://www.wkyc.com/video/news/breaking/

[althrasher]

Thanks haskins! The nbc feed really sucks

[John Paton]

wow !! thank you William. It isn't on Fox International either

[billythrilly7th]

Text From Friend: Your Senator from NY is a lying sack of shit.
My Text Back: Duh. What did she say?
Test From Friend: Said she didn't support Nafta then russert quoted her support from over the years. It was precious.

Maybe I shoulda kept watching.

[althrasher]

I really don't like her, but it seemed like the questions were more biased against her. I just caught the tail end, though.

[Bird of Prey]

I have watched Hillary Clinton so thoroughly maligned by bigots that I barely watch her anymore. It's too painful. Nevertheless, if nothing else, I am proud - damned proud - that there is a woman willing to stand up and contend with flat out assholes and prevail. And ultimately, she does.

Because all the animosity and bigotry in the world isn't going to defeat her, per se, as there's no question among intelligent men and women, what the agenda has been.

[Gina_Marie]

I have watched Hillary Clinton so thoroughly maligned by bigots that I barely watch her anymore. It's too painful. Nevertheless, if nothing else, I am proud - damned proud - that there is a woman willing to stand up and contend with flat out assholes and prevail. And ultimately, she does.

Because all the animosity and bigotry in the world isn't going to defeat her, per se, as there's no question among intelligent men and women, what the agenda has been.

Amen. And I agree.

Historical Fiction author Robin Maxwell recently did an article about Hillary and what she has gonethrough. She also compaires Hillary to Anne Boleyn.


It's entitled Hillary Boleyn: Has Anything Changed in Half a Millennium?

http://www.robinmaxwell.com/HillaryBoleyn.htm

[Joe270]

She also compaires Hillary to Anne Boleyn.

Oh, give us all a break. What a crock.

Hillary represents the very worst in politics, that's why folks like me despise her so much. I'd vote for Hitler before I'd vote for Clinton. That's how dangerous I see her agenda and how vile I see her politics.

It's not because she's a woman. I have no problems voting for a woman, just not this woman.

Get over that excuse, because it just ain't true for the most part. Her 'negatives' were remarkably high before she entered the race, and those weren't because she's a woman. It's her politics, her filthy tactics, and her husband.

Get over it.

[blacbird]

Historical Fiction author Robin Maxwell recently did an article about Hillary and what she has gonethrough. She also compaires Hillary to Anne Boleyn.


Oh.

My.

God.

The poor victim!

Give us a wee break.

Hillary Clinton has come within striking distance of a Presidential nomination from one of the two major political parties in this nation. That's never happened before. It's a historic, serious, and admirable achievement. She's falling short not because of gender prejudice, but because she just plain made some serious mistakes in her campaign, the kind of thing that has sunk political candidates throughout U.S. history. She might have got away with those, but she's had the misfortune of facing a really capable opponent who has run a better campaign.

THAT'S IT, FOKES. Political life is tough sometimes. The concept that Hillary Clinton has faced greater political obstacles because she's a woman than Barack Obama has because he's a black man is ludicrous beyond reason.

I posted a note a couple weeks back, on some other thread, on the number of U.S. Senators and Governors who are women, and the number who are black. I don't recall the precise figures, but you can look 'em up, if you dare. It's something like seventeen female U.S. Senators, and ONE African-American (OBAMA). And eight or nine female State Governors, and ONE African-American (Deval Patrick, of Massachusetts).

Hillary Clinton rose to national political prominence for one primary reason, and being a woman is essential to that reason: SHE WAS THE WIFE OF A TWO-TERM PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. If that confluence of circumstances hadn't happened, I assure you Hillary Clinton would not today be a major candidate for the Presidency herself. That's not to negate her abilities or anything else; it's just to point out that she was placed in a position where those abilities could be showcased on a national stage, and she took advantage of that, which is perfectly legitimate and acceptable. But don't give me any of this Anne Boleyn victim schidt.

Suck it up and get real. Your candidate has fallen short in the campaign, for legitimate reasons, whether you like 'em or not. It works that way, most campaign years. Talk to the supporters of John Edwards, Mitt Romney, Mike Huckabee or Rudy Giuliani. They had it even worse. Not to mention Ron Paul.

caw

[billythrilly7th]

Oh, give us all a break. What a crock.

Hillary represents the very worst in politics, that's why folks like me despise her so much. I'd vote for Hitler before I'd vote for Clinton. That's how dangerous I see her agenda and how vile I see her politics.

It's not because she's a woman. I have no problems voting for a woman, just not this woman.

Get over that excuse, because it just ain't true for the most part. Her 'negatives' were remarkably high before she entered the race, and those weren't because she's a woman. It's her politics, her filthy tactics, and her husband.

Get over it.

great post except for the Hitler part.

but i hear ya

she's loathed for decades of corruption and scandal and unbridled and unquenchable, win at all costs, desire for power

I'd love to vote for a woman

the right one

BoP just can't take it anymore.

It's a sad scene for those in the "whoooo...Hillary lost because she's a woman" block.

What Hillary has gone through?

PFFHHH!!

What?!!!

What exactly has been so overly difficult about this campaign for her?

NADA

Even if there were some sexist aspects, people are making it sound like she's being sprayed with firehoses and being denied service in restaurants. Or debating in full Burkah attire. Or making donuts on the Today show so she can get airtime.
Gimme a break.

She lived in the White House for 8 years.

Been a Senator for 6.

Lives a life of extreme privelidge.

She's been treated just fine during the campaign.

Thank u.

[billythrilly7th]

THAT'S IT, FOKES. Political life is tough sometimes. The concept that Hillary Clinton has faced greater political obstacles because she's a woman than Barack Obama has as because he's a black man is ludicrous beyond reason.

Yeah.

That's what I meant to say.

And all clear minded people know that what you say be the truth.

[Bravo]

I'd vote for Hitler before I'd vote for Clinton. .

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: :rolleyes: (there arent enough)

insert billy's captain hyperbole picture.

by God, joe.

i dont think you can lay it on any thicker.

[blacbird]

I feel like I have to repudiate Joe's Hitler statement, too. Not cool, Not cool at all.

As in, if Hillary Clinton were running for President against George W. Bush, I'd have no problem at all figuring out who to vote for (here Trilzo and I will part ways).

caw

[InfinityGoddess]

Oh.

My.

God.

The poor victim!

Give us a wee break.

Hillary Clinton has come within striking distance of a Presidential nomination from one of the two major political parties in this nation. That's never happened before. It's a historic, serious, and admirable achievement. She's falling short not because of gender prejudice, but because she just plain made some serious mistakes in her campaign, the kind of thing that has sunk political candidates throughout U.S. history. She might have got away with those, but she's had the misfortune of facing a really capable opponent who has run a better campaign.

THAT'S IT, FOKES. Political life is tough sometimes. The concept that Hillary Clinton has faced greater political obstacles because she's a woman than Barack Obama has because he's a black man is ludicrous beyond reason.

I posted a note a couple weeks back, on some other thread, on the number of U.S. Senators and Governors who are women, and the number who are black. I don't recall the precise figures, but you can look 'em up, if you dare. It's something like seventeen female U.S. Senators, and ONE African-American (OBAMA). And eight or nine female State Governors, and ONE African-American (Deval Patrick, of Massachusetts).

Hillary Clinton rose to national political prominence for one primary reason, and being a woman is essential to that reason: SHE WAS THE WIFE OF A TWO-TERM PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. If that confluence of circumstances hadn't happened, I assure you Hillary Clinton would not today be a major candidate for the Presidency herself. That's not to negate her abilities or anything else; it's just to point out that she was placed in a position where those abilities could be showcased on a national stage, and she took advantage of that, which is perfectly legitimate and acceptable. But don't give me any of this Anne Boleyn victim schidt.

Suck it up and get real. Your candidate has fallen short in the campaign, for legitimate reasons, whether you like 'em or not. It works that way, most campaign years. Talk to the supporters of John Edwards, Mitt Romney, Mike Huckabee or Rudy Giuliani. They had it even worse. Not to mention Ron Paul.

caw


:Clap::Clap:

Because you deserve it.

[small axe]

I was very relieved that Clinton and Obama got through the debate and treated each other with professionalism, respect, and fairness.

Hillary made a few mis-steps: Complaining (complaining) that she had to answer the first question, and then that absurdly petty (if not snide) comment about the SNL skit and whether they would give Barack Obama another pillow?!

Obama let her off the hook about her ridiculous speech soundbites ... and set himself off above such petty bickering while looking good and graceful towards her. Obama deftly removed himself from the unfortunate Farrakhan quasi-endorsement (he "repudiated" Farrakhan's anti-semitic comments, Clinton interrupted -- needlessly trying for brownie points -- to insist that she had herself "rejected" endorsements from racists during her campaign for Senator. Obama simply side-slipped her silly issue with a huge "you gotta be kidding" smile by saying in that case he'd "repudiate AND reject" Farrakhan's anti-semitic remarks etc. Made her look petty)

She said electing a woman President would be a "seachange" and alter the whole way the nation would be governed. I sat there thinking "Well, he could say the same thing too, right? What's your point, gender-pimp?"

But the analysts afterwards took her to task, saying that if HE had said that he would've really been criticized for making it about RACE ... but she could get away with making it about GENDER. (White folks: they say the crazy things and they're freekin' TEFLON)

They both seemed serious and Presidential while discussing policy and the war, imo.

I feared crazy desperation fireworks from Hillary and crazy clumsy defensive mistakes from Barack .... but neither happened, gladly.

She needed a real situation-changer and didn't get anything close to that; He needed to stay the course (since he's grinding her down, and can win it unless she wins by 20% in BOTH Texas and Ohio) without making any mistakes and all the TV talking heads seemed to agree he'd done that.

Like Obama said: "Sounds good to me." :)

[blacbird]

Hillary made a few mis-steps: Complaining (complaining) that she had to answer the first question,

That one looked even dumber when Tim Russert revealed after the debate that he hadn't addressed that question specifically to Clinton. He asked it, and looked at both candidates, and she simply spoke up first. But, really, it wasn't a big deal.

Both were pretty controlled and handled themselves well. No big mistakes either way. Doubt if this exchange has any effect on anything.

caw

[Bravo]

Both were pretty controlled and handled themselves well. No big mistakes either way. Doubt if this exchange has any effect on anything.



changed my mom's opinion of her. well she always somewhat liked hillary, but she's especially annoyed with the way the media treats her. and she's glad hillary handles herself so well.

i wonder how many other women out there think the same thing now?

seriously, msnbc really dropped the ball on this one.

russert that smug, useless prick.

someone needs to take him down a few notches.

[Joe270]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe270
I'd vote for Hitler before I'd vote for Clinton. .

(there arent enough)

insert billy's captain hyperbole picture.

by God, joe.

i dont think you can lay it on any thicker.

Yeah, well, sorry. I gotta agree with you this time.

I just couldn't think of anyone else vile enough for comparison. I almost went with Carter, but that's more ineptitude than a misguided powerful politician with an agenda.

Hitler fit the bill, but was, admittedly, over the top.

Appologies to all.

[Bravo]

well at least you had the decency to see that.

[Gina_Marie]

Wow on the hitler comment.

I posted the article due to another comment about how hillary does seem to have a rough go as things as a woman in 2008. Before I thought a woman wouldn't have any issues, but some of the comments that have been made about her make me think gender is a factor.

If you dont agree with the article, thats fine.No one cannot deny the fact that politics is dirty and that its hard.

Still, with the uppity woman comments and things like that I do wonder about things. Race and gender are still an issue.

Edit. Its also interesting to see the reaction here as compaired to a history MB I was on. Others were like hmm lests study the Correlations, if any, but the majority here viewed it differently indeed! Interesting. :)

[Snowstorm]

Clinton lost a lot of points with her snide "pillow" remark to Obama and her whining about getting the first question. Obama, as always, conducted himself smoothly, not getting ticked off--which he had reasons to. He's succinct; she's a blabbermouth. I predict next week the Democratic nomination's fat lady will start warming up.

[NikeeGoddess]

first of all...Originally Posted by Bird of Prey
I have watched Hillary Clinton so thoroughly maligned by bigots that I barely watch her anymore. It's too painful. Nevertheless, if nothing else, I am proud - damned proud - that there is a woman willing to stand up and contend with flat out assholes and prevail. And ultimately, she does.

Because all the animosity and bigotry in the world isn't going to defeat her, per se, as there's no question among intelligent men and women, what the agenda has been.

Amen. And I agree.this is worth repeating.

Clinton lost a lot of points with her snide "pillow" remark to Obama and her whining about getting the first questionthis is only because people didn't see the analogy. she held back and should have gone further. "i'm the randy jackson of the debates and obama get's to play paula and ride on my first response." that would have hit it out of the ballpark for me.

The concept that Hillary Clinton has faced greater political obstacles because she's a woman than Barack Obama has because he's a black man is ludicrous beyond reason. it's not a concept. but it's quite evident -- esp if you use this board as a representative -- that the hateful sexist remarks are acceptable and condoned by some whereas there are no racist remarks whatsoever. punishable hate crimes are directed toward minorities of all kinds. white women are not minorities so hate crimes toward them are still fair game. so, yes she does have a greater obstacle.

Obama deftly removed himself from the unfortunate Farrakhan quasi-endorsement (he "repudiated" Farrakhan's anti-semitic comments, Clinton interrupted -- needlessly trying for brownie points -- to insist that she had herself "rejected" endorsements from racists during her campaign for Senator. Obama simply side-slipped her silly issue with a huge "you gotta be kidding" smile by saying in that case he'd "repudiate AND reject" Farrakhan's anti-semitic remarks etc. Made her look petty)i must say, i thought obama denouncing, and not rejecting statement made it seem like he was denouncing farrakhan's ideals but he was not rejecting the money that was sent to endorse him. obama said that he could do nothing about someone endorsing him. -- it came off that way to me.

changed my mom's opinion of her. well she always somewhat liked hillary, but she's especially annoyed with the way the media treats her. and she's glad hillary handles herself so well.

i wonder how many other women out there think the same thing now?

seriously, msnbc really dropped the ball on this one.

russert that smug, useless prick. maybe your mom (and many other people around the nation) and russert watched the opening skit on SNL (the first new show since the end of the writer's strike) mocking how the debate journalists (who vow to remain neutral in appearance) have come off treating obama like they're in love with him and such... dare i say nonsense? well, no it's not nonsense because usually SNL parodies are RIGHT ON!!! they saw it that way and many clinton supporters saw it that way. and possible russert said he will not be like that.



Hitler fit the bill, but was, admittedly, over the top.

Appologies to all.so you want to change your vote? well, you can't. senate votes are set in stone and you have to live with them and keep them on your record. you will always be a hitler-lover in my eyes, joe. LOL!

[RumpleTumbler]

I didn't watch it nor have I read anything about it.

That being said I declare that Obama kicked Hillarys ass.

She has lost the nomination. I laugh at her. :roll:

[billythrilly7th]

well at least you had the decency to see that.

I agree.

It's such a pleasure to see someone say "ooops, sorry."

Apologies accepted Joe.

And you too, Bravo.

[TheGaffer]

gotta just say russert (whatever his name is) is such a tool.

this guy is going to give clinton the nomination with his alpha-male posturing.

"would you be willing to pull out of NAFTA in 6 months? Yes or no!"

what a crock.

he just keeps going at her.

great work russell.

who's idea was it to have two men be the news anchors tonite?

that guy is gonna get a kick in the balls if i ever see him.


I basically feel like I don't need to read the rest of this thread. This post pretty much puts it over the fence regarding Russert.

You may believe Obama is a jackass.

You may believe Clinton is a jackass.

But Russert is the biggest jackass of all, without question.

[TheGaffer]

Oh.

My.

God.

The poor victim!

Give us a wee break.

(SNIPPED for LENGTH)
caw

Well said.

One other point, and what doomed her in the debate (which I've only managed to catch up on with cliips and transcripts). She started to believe the victim stuff, and brought it up first before the moderators did, mentioning the SNL skit (which was so unfunny) and the like. She sounded bitter and pissy before anything got going, and it wasn't a good start.

This wasn't like that previous debate prior to the N.H. primary where she was asked about being likeable and said, sweetly and with a smile, "That hurts my feelings," which garnered her a bit of deserved sympathy for a rude-ass question like that. This time she merely did sound bitter and it didn't play well.