How desperately stupid can people be?

[Perks]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/02/16/drag.race.deaths.ap/index.html

ACCOKEEK, Maryland (AP) -- A car plowed into a crowd that had gathered to watch a street race on a suburban road early Saturday, killing seven people and injuring at least four, police said. Witnesses said they had just watched two cars in the illegal street race speed past when a car without any lights on came up behind them and veered into a crowd of about 50.
"There were just bodies everywhere; it was horrible," said Crystal Gaines, 27, whose father was among the dead.


So, aside from the punkasses who arranged the whole thing, we've a crowd of onlookers who knew to be there. And bring their children.

Genius.

[Ol' Fashioned Girl]

There's at least a few Darwin Award Winners in there, eh?

[Perks]

I hope that's all who's in there. They haven't said where the white sedan came from and it may very well turn out to have been full of innocent passers-by. Or they would have passed by had the street race not been convened in the middle of a public road.

Have to wonder how many jackasses don't realize The Fast and The Furious was just a movie.

[William Haskins]

How desperately stupid can people be?

new records are set daily.

[Gravity]

And operators are standing by.

[Perks]

I know. I think my thread title choice was ill-advised.

[AnneMarble]

I hope that's all who's in there. They haven't said where the white sedan came from and it may very well turn out to have been full of innocent passers-by. Or they would have passed by had the street race not been convened in the middle of a public road.
According to what I heard on the news tonight, the white sedan was full of innocent passers-by. Apparently they couldn't see the crowd because it was dark and there was lots of tire smoke because the two drivers (who hadn't taken off yet) were doing something called a burn out. And police are still looking for the drivers. :rolleyes:

Here's some local coverage (http://www.examiner.com/a-1225180~Car_Hits_Md__Street_Race_Crowd__8_Killed.h tml?cid=temp-spotlight). I saw something about it on the national news tonight. One of the women who witnessed the accident complained that she saw the car coming but that it didn't have its lights on. Even if that's true, I don't think lights would have made that much of a difference.

What's amazing to me is that the victims range in age from their 20s to their 60s. The highway is supposed to be a popular spot for illegal street racing. (Now you know that normal people should avoid it. :rolleyes:) I wouldn't be surprised if the drag racing had been going on for many many years in that area.

[blacbird]

What's amazing to me is that the victims range in age from their 20s to their 60s.

At 3:40 AM. Definitely not dealing with any Ph.D.s here.

caw

[aruna]

Excuses, excuses, excuses: Marion Neal feared her 42-year-old brother was among the dead and was awaiting images from the police.

"It's a tragedy," she said. "I don't like racing, but that was his hobby."

[Joe270]

At 3:40 AM. Definitely not dealing with any Ph.D.s here.

I can't understand this. Take the kids and grandparents out to watch illegal crap at almost 4 o'clock in the morning? WTF, over?

Do they expect good things to happen to them?

[Perks]

That quote that Aruna posted is particularly frustrating because there are plenty of legal race venues within a reasonable drive from Accokeek. A racing hobby is a fine thing. Nobody need die at the side of a public road for it.

[Bird of Prey]

Perks, I hope you don't hate me for this, but at a perfectly legal high speed international rally - not too many years ago, Italy I believe -several were killed when a car plowed into a crowd.

And here's the worst part; my confession about your story: it's a tragedy but I don't condemn the spectators as stupid or frankly anything but Americans pushing the limit with homegrown entertainment, which frankly, makes it relevant to them and worth the risk. It was a fucking accident: nothing more.

It's right out of Rebel Without A Cause, and there's something I find O.K. about people defying restrictions - without the intention of hurting anybody - and being spectators to something outside the nanny state but within their own, very precious and intimate world. I'm O.K. with it. And ultimately, it was nothing more than a freak accident.

[Perks]

I know people get killed at legal events. I am a racing fan myself and, perhaps out of sheer cowardice, would only attend functions where at least the minimum of safety requirements had been met.

You can never make a public road safe for racing unless it's in cooperation with the local highway authority.

The people I feel the worst for are the people in the white sedan who came upon the race unaware. That's the driver who killed eight people, including one of his passengers and that is inexcusable.

You can risk your own life, but not the lives of people who never could have known any better.

[Bravo]

i honestly never thought watching a drag race was really that stupid.

racing wasnt that big a thing where i grew up, but if i was out in LA or texas, i'm pretty sure i'd be into that culture.

[Bird of Prey]

I know people get killed at legal events. I am a racing fan myself and, perhaps out of sheer cowardice, would only attend functions where at least the minimum of safety requirements had been met.

You can never make a public road safe for racing unless it's in cooperation with the local highway authority.

The people I feel the worst for are the people in the white sedan who came upon the race unaware. That's the driver who killed eight people, including one of his passengers and that is inexcusable.

You can risk your own life, but not the lives of people who never could have known any better.

Perks: we're all at risk if we do anything more than sit in a corner. . .and even then.

I'm sorry it happened, and the people in the white sedan should have been flagged over or protected but it didn't happen that way.

I had a guy cut me off not too long ago that could have caused a pile-up, but we all managed to slam on our brakes.

Life is not without risk, Perks, if you want to live it. These people didn't intend harm. Again, it was a freak accident.

[Perks]

These people didn't intend harm. Again, it was a freak accident.
I disagree. It's not a freak accident if you realize you have to host your event at three in the morning. It's because it's unsafe to do it any other time.

They didn't have anyone flagging, so they entirely disregarded the chance that anyone would come upon their little exposition.

I'm sure I don't lead life to the fullest. I'm a sad sack, for sure. But I'm unlikely to take any innocents down with me.

[Bird of Prey]

I disagree. It's not a freak accident if you realize you have to host your event at three in the morning. It's because it's unsafe to do it any other time.

They didn't have anyone flagging, so they entirely disregarded the chance that anyone would come upon their little exposition.

I'm sure I don't lead life to the fullest. I'm a sad sack, for sure. But I'm unlikely to take any innocents down with me.

As I said, Perks, it's a tragedy; and I concur that nobody was flagging, thus obviously not cognizant of the possible ramifications.

But you know? I'm sure those folks don't feel good about it.

I guess it depends on what you believe. . . but ultimately, these people meant no harm. They absolutely meant no harm. It doesn't make them stupid, just stricken, I'm sure.

[Bravo]

I guess it depends on what you believe. . . but ultimately, these people meant no harm. .

neither do drunk drivers.

[Perks]

But you know? I'm sure those folks don't feel good about it.

That's disgusting. I'm gonna have to leave it at that.

[Bird of Prey]

neither do drunk drivers.


Look. Every time you drive a car or take a plane, you are at a certain risk. You land in a foreign country? You're at a certain risk. I've escaped harrowing violence. Would I do it again knowing what I know? Probably not, but I learned immensely. The lesson, ultimately, was worth bearing witness, despite the sleepless nights.

Life is a step and eventually it's over unless we allow genetics to alter us manifestly. And that's coming. But in the mean time, people will die and they will survive and they will allow their "freedom" to rein free.

If you want the assuredness that you will survive to old age, it's easy. Don't live to the fullest. Take no risks.

[KTC]

This happens in Toronto ALL the timel. Never so disastrous as this, but in the summer it seems like there is someone dying every weekend as the result of racing...on the streets and on the highway. And almost always it's innocent people who are killed. Last summer I remember 2 brothers drag racing killed two women... found link;

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/toronto/archive/2007/10/09/bail-hearing-postponed-for-brothers-charged-in-double-fatal-crash.aspx

There was a new strict law created last summer and I seriously felt they were mocking it...the instances of fatalities grew after the law was announced.

[Bird of Prey]

That's disgusting. I'm gonna have to leave it at that.

You know why most people get by without dotting every i and crossing every t?

The bigger question: you want to know why you do?

Luck. Fortune smiling when your screw-ups could have meant something profound.

[Perks]

Bird of Prey, it's amazing to me that you have all this faith that we'll survive to clone ourselves into godhood without cultivating the proper respect for cause and effect.

It would terrify me if it weren't self-disproving.

[Perks]

And, for the record, I have every respect for an individual to risk his own life up to and including suicide. Knock yourself out. But don't you dare think that your pathetic remorse will be sufficient to absolve you of killing people who were minding their own business.

[Bird of Prey]

Knock yourself out. But don't you dare think that your pathetic remorse will be sufficient to absolve you of killing people who were minding their own business.

Well, we all do that, Perks, regardless of what we may think. And sometimes, we do it with the best of intentions, with the absolute opposite of ill intent as our will, and yet?

[Perks]

And this relates to this instance how?

[Bird of Prey]

And this relates to this instance how?

It's easy to assign blame, but sometimes, nobody meant any harm; nobody was any stupider than anybody else but regardless, mistakes were made.

We're not perfect. That's how this relates.

And sometimes, just sometimes, people deserve more compassion than condemnation because they're already going to blame themselves for the rest of their lives for having a moment - just a moment - of poor judgment.

I love Americans. I really do. Because regardless of our rich/mostly immoral, we try hard. Most of us really try hard.

[Perks]

I really should leave this alone before I burst a vein in my forehead, but nothing can be called is a simple, sad accident when it was a deliberate and elaborate act in direct conflict with a pretty fucking specific law that made said act illegal precisely because it's a public endangerment.

That's not an accident, Bird of Prey.

[Cassie88]

Again, it was a freak accident.


It was NOT a freak accident, it was an accident waiting to happen.

You want to do this kind of thing, great, find a place where others can't be affected by it, not public streets! It's appalling!!

[Perks]

And sometimes, just sometimes, people deserve more compassion than condemnation because they're already going to blame themselves for the rest of their lives for having a moment - just a moment - of poor judgment.

You are outrageous. A moment? How much preparation went into convening this race? How much underground advertising to draw the crowd? What, you think they thought it up at 2:45 that morning? And people just happened to be fucking around on the side of the road to watch, with their children and their sixty year old fathers?

This is an absurd conversation. I'm going away now.

[Bird of Prey]

You are outrageous. A moment? How much preparation went into convening this race? How much underground advertising to draw the crowd?


Come on, Jamie. Show me!!

Not everybody has a 160 IQ. That doesn't make them stupid or appalling or assinine or oblivious. It makes them - for the moment - irresponsible, as we all are at times.

[aruna]

Look. Every time you drive a car or take a plane, you are at a certain risk. You land in a foreign country?


If you want the assuredness that you will survive to old age, it's easy. Don't live to the fullest. Take no risks.

It's easy to assign blame, but sometimes, nobody meant any harm; nobody was any stupider than anybody else but regardless, mistakes were made.



And sometimes, just sometimes, people deserve more compassion than condemnation because they're already going to blame themselves for the rest of their lives for having a moment - just a moment - of poor judgment.


OK. I'll jump in here. In my younger days I LOVED to take risks. I did all sorts of things that, if my mother had known, she would have gone out drinking and my mum NEVER drinks.

I slept alone on a beach in Colombia, aged 19, even though I knew Colombia is the most dangerous country in South America, even though I knew I couldn't walk two metres alone in that country without having men grab me, touch me, speak to me. Not that i was particularly beautiful. That's just the way Colombian men are with single women. (Or were. It was 1971)

I hitchhiked from the mountains down to the beach, two days long. I got thrown out of vehicles by drivers for not having sex with them. At least six times. I still went back for more.

You know what? I was damn stupid. If I had got raped it would have served me right.

Glorify risk-taking all you want, but there are limits.

In my case, hitchhiking around South America was a great idea, a wonderful risky thing to do. The moment I left my friends, among them one male, to hitchhike alone and sleep on beaches alone even though I was aware of the danger I had crossed the line from risky-fun into risky-dumb.

At least, though, I only put myself in danger and no-one else.

[aruna]

Just wanted to add: I don't think I am a stupid person. But even an intelligent person can behave stupidly, and I did. And still do, sometimes. That is part of life.

For a single woman to hitch-hike in Colombia is stupid behaviour. That woman might have a 160 IQ, but it is still stupid behaviour. Same thing with hanging out on a street at night.

[Williebee]

Accident? Yes. Freak accident? No. More like the law of averages catching up.

What will be sad is when some lawyers get to the pedestrians and convince them that some one else is at fault for their injuries and losses.

Then again, maybe that won't happen. Maybe those folks will all have a sense of their own personal responsibility for their actions, and tell the lawyers to pack sand.

Oh look... flying monkeys, and some guy's a$$.

[Dragon-lady]

Well, we all do that, Perks, regardless of what we may think. And sometimes, we do it with the best of intentions, with the absolute opposite of ill intent as our will, and yet?
No, we DON'T all do that.

If you go climb Mt. Everest you damn well better not expect the other climbers to risk themselves to save you because guess what. The chances are they won't. You decided to take the risk and that's fine.

I am just left breathless with your insistance that these people had the right to risk innocent bystanders. And the innocent bystanders were the ones in the car who will have to live the rest of their lives with the sight of the people they plowed into and the children who were dragged out there by idiot parents.

You do NOT have the right to risk others. If you want to go race and risk yourself and others who choose to be there I frankly don't care. It might clean up the gene pool. But don't do your racing in the middle of the street where you deliberately risk others.

Your excuse is that everyone is irresponsible is exactly that. An excuse. If I take risks and risk myself then so be it. The day I risk someone else it is both immoral and criminal.

That ain't that hard to understand, Bud.

[blacbird]

I am just left breathless with your insistance that these people had the right to risk innocent bystanders. And the innocent bystanders were the ones in the car who will have to live the rest of their lives with the sight of the people they plowed into and the children who were dragged out there by idiot parents.

Mostly I agree with you, but let's get real: there were no truly "innocent" bystanders involved here. The car that plowed into the crowd was driving WITHOUT LIGHTS at 3:40 in the morning. The crowd was out there to watch a blatantly illegal activity (illegal precisely because it was recognized as dangerous), with children, parents and GRANDPARENTS involved.

What there was here was a whole lot of Darwinian idiocy. I don't celebrate these people being injured and killed, but, hey, there aren't any heroes here. None of this needed to happen. There was no inevitability or fate involved. It happened because a whole group of people chose to be collectively stupid.

caw

[Joe270]

Mostly I agree with you, but let's get real: there were no truly "innocent" bystanders involved here.

We could say the minor children brought to the event by their completely irresponsible parents were innocent.

Of course, then we'd like to see some child endangerment charges filed, post haste.

[Dragon-lady]

Mostly I agree with you, but let's get real: there were no truly "innocent" bystanders involved here. The car that plowed into the crowd was driving WITHOUT LIGHTS at 3:40 in the morning. The crowd was out there to watch a blatantly illegal activity (illegal precisely because it was recognized as dangerous), with children, parents and GRANDPARENTS involved.



What there was here was a whole lot of Darwinian idiocy. I don't celebrate these people being injured and killed, but, hey, there aren't any heroes here. None of this needed to happen. There was no inevitability or fate involved. It happened because a whole group of people chose to be collectively stupid.



caw

One witness said the car was driven without lights and at that time of the night--it's conceivable. But I think before I assume the driver was drunk or stoned, I'd like to hear it from an uninterested party. The witness was one of the people who was hanging out on the street and defending their own actions. Maybe true. Maybe not.

The kids who were there were definitely innocents. What idiot parents TAKE their kids out at 3AM much less to stand in the street and risk their lives like that?

Hanging out on the streets at night, yeah it's dumb. Taking your KIDS to hang out in the street at night--that is way, WAY beyond dumb. Let me remind you that the young woman who risked getting raped on a beach in Columbia wasn't dragging kids along with her.

[blacbird]

Hanging out on the streets at night, yeah it's dumb. Taking your KIDS to hang out in the street at night--that is way, WAY beyond dumb. Let me remind you that the young woman who risked getting raped on a beach in Columbia wasn't dragging kids along with her.

I failed to qualify that I was speaking of the "adults" involved in this episode, not any children they took out with them. And I have no idea what your last sentence refers to, or why it's germane to the issue of the incident being discussed.

caw

[aruna]

I failed to qualify that I was speaking of the "adults" involved in this episode, not any children they took out with them. And I have no idea what your last sentence refers to, or why it's germane to the issue of the incident being discussed.

caw


I think he was referring to my post above.

[KTC]

I see the whole thing as MURDER. There are enough instances where this has ended in the exact same way to make those who were driving aware of the consequences. They knew there was a chance they would MURDER people, or kill themselves, yet they still did it. That makes it premeditated. There were no accidents here. No accidents. Just a bunch of shitheads getting together and murdering. And a bunch of people stupid enough to watch. When there are two people involved in the stupidity of street racing, it's easier to take...the fact that there are two stupid assholes out there dumbass enough to do something so violently stupid is bad. And that they always seem to find each other is scary too. But that a group of people actually premeditate to put something like this together SICKENS me to no end. Sickens me.

That people defend the thought processes of these idiotic morons actually sickens me too. They are negligent beyond words. They murdered people...people who were stupid enough to show up but shouldn't of had to pay for that stupidity with their lives.

[Jcomp]

Weird. I had a dream about something just like this about 4-5 nights ago. Yeesh...

Damn shame. This whole street racing business is so idiotic.

[Robert Toy]

Want to get really sick.

http://us.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2008/02/18/koch.drag.racing.deaths.cnn

[KTC]

Want to get really sick.

http://us.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2008/02/18/koch.drag.racing.deaths.cnn


That poor bastard who drove into them...he has to suffer a lifetime of guilt for something he couldn't control BECAUSE of the racers. Outrageous.

[Bird of Prey]

No, we DON'T all do that.

If you go climb Mt. Everest you damn well better not expect the other climbers to risk themselves to save you because guess what. The chances are they won't. You decided to take the risk and that's fine.

I am just left breathless with your insistance that these people had the right to risk innocent bystanders. And the innocent bystanders were the ones in the car who will have to live the rest of their lives with the sight of the people they plowed into and the children who were dragged out there by idiot parents.

You do NOT have the right to risk others. If you want to go race and risk yourself and others who choose to be there I frankly don't care. It might clean up the gene pool. But don't do your racing in the middle of the street where you deliberately risk others.

Your excuse is that everyone is irresponsible is exactly that. An excuse. If I take risks and risk myself then so be it. The day I risk someone else it is both immoral and criminal.

That ain't that hard to understand, Bud.

Oh gimme a break, "Bud." You've never risked a damn thing in your life? Never been driving a car and passed somebody even though you know you really shouldn't pass there? There's a million little risks we take during the course of our lives, albeit maybe no you. But if this incident wasn't in the news, you wouldn't have heard a word about it, while the folks involved would be talking about it over breakfast, like they've probably done countless times before.

And I don't want a fucking nanny state. I'm so tired of people complaining about how dangerous this is, and risky that is, and how stupid people are for doing something albeit irresponsibly but nevertheless, a bit free-spirited. I'm sorry it ended in tragedy. But at least some people aren't living in hermetically sealed bubbles.

[AnneMarble]

It's right out of Rebel Without A Cause, and there's something I find O.K. about people defying restrictions - without the intention of hurting anybody - and being spectators to something outside the nanny state but within their own, very precious and intimate world. I'm O.K. with it.
But the teens in Rebel Without a Cause were racing toward a cliff. It's been a long time since I saw it, but I'm pretty sure that means they weren't using a highway as most highways don't come to a sudden deadly drop off a cliff. :) Someone recently pointed out to me that they were using some kind of drainage thingie?... Maybe the original book was different, but most people remember the movie, not the book.

Also, sure, living outside the nanny state can be cool. But not when you put other people (nonparticipants) in danger. One person's "rugged individualism" ends when they bump into someone else's rights.

And ultimately, it was nothing more than a freak accident.
Maybe it was more like a "freak on-purpose" than a "freak accident."

[KTC]

And I don't want a fucking nanny state. I'm so tired of people complaining about how dangerous this is, and risky that is, and how stupid people are for doing something albeit irresponsibly but nevertheless, a bit free-spirited. I'm sorry it ended in tragedy. But at least some people aren't living in hermetically sealed bubbles.

It's fucking illegal. That's the end of the story. You're unbelievable.

[Bird of Prey]

It's fucking illegal. That's the end of the story. You're unbelievable.

And I stand by all my awful fucking illegal sins, like jay walking, passing on the right, swimming in the ocean without a fucking lifeguard, stopping the car so my haute cuisine friend could grab a couple of fresh lemons, pushing the yellow light when I'm in a hurry, clocking a hundred on the endless Kansas highway, not wearing a seatbelt and here's the best part: laughing out loud during an evening sermon because some old guy was snoring in front of me. It was a terrible thing to do to the congregation.

[KTC]

And I stand by all my awful fucking illegal sins, like jay walking, passing on the right, swimming in the ocean without a fucking lifeguard, stopping the car so my haute cuisine friend could grab a couple of fresh lemons, pushing the yellow light when I'm in a hurry, clocking a hundred on the endless Kansas highway, not wearing a seatbelt and here's the best part: laughing out loud during an evening sermon because some old guy was snoring in front of me. It was a terrible thing to do to the congregation.


Except for the speeding...none of the things you mentioned put innocent lives in danger. I have no problem with people getting a cheap thrill...if it doesn't endanger other people. I can't believe you think that's okay. Tell it to the relatives of the 8 dead people...or to the guy who plowed into them. Maybe they don't give a shit about the law either...and maybe they'll show you how they feel about your ill-logic.

[Bird of Prey]

Except for the speeding...none of the things you mentioned put innocent lives in danger. I have no problem with people getting a cheap thrill...if it doesn't endanger other people. I can't believe you think that's okay. Tell it to the relatives of the 8 dead people...or to the guy who plowed into them. Maybe they don't give a shit about the law either...and maybe they'll show you how they feel about your ill-logic.

You ever done anything illegal that put somebody at risk?

I'm not asking you to answer; I'm asking you to think about it.

My whole objection here is condemning these people for being "stupid."

They made a mistake, but they did it with no intention of having people get hurt. . .the way most mistakes are made.

[Jcomp]

You ever done anything illegal that put somebody at risk?

I'm not asking you to answer; I'm asking you to think about it.

My whole objection here is condemning these people for being "stupid." Nobody's immune to stupidity, but let's call it what it is.

They made a mistake, but they did it with no intention of having people get hurt. . .the way most mistakes are made.

Um... alot of mistakes can be qualified as "stupid." And as far as doing anything illegal that put somebody at risk as blatantly as street racing, I for one can happily sleep at night knowing I've never done such a thing.

If you want to race, find a track and have at it. They actually have such things. But don't play dragster in the 'burbs where people might actually be trying to get home safely. It's illegal and dangerous and extremely stupid.

[Bird of Prey]

Um... alot of mistakes can be qualified as "stupid." And as far as doing anything illegal that put somebody at risk as blatantly as street racing, I for one can happily sleep at night knowing I've never done such a thing.

If you want to race, find a track and have at it. They actually have such things. But don't play dragster in the 'burbs where people might actually be trying to get home safely. It's illegal and dangerous and extremely stupid.


It's also a subculture. I think NPR or Frontline is having something on it tonight? Apparently it's been going on for a long time.

[Jcomp]

It's also a subculture. I think NPR or Frontline is having something on it tonight? Apparently it's been going on for a long time.

Oh, well if NPR's running a story on it and it's been going on for a while it can't be stupid OR dangerous...

[HeronW]

Freak accident is getting hit by lightning on a clear day. Standing in the middle of an unlit PUBLIC road at 3-4am watching a bunch of yahoos drag-race which is illegal btw, is no accident--it is a tragedy. Driving through heavy smoke is like driving through heavy fog--you cannot see more than 3' ahead of your lights.

This wasn't fog though, it was man-made smoke in a very small area produced by the drag racers showing off their cars. Then we have the idiots standing in a dark road like it's their living room and they're watching TV. They weren't 'minding their own business'. They were enjoying an illegal activity in a dangerous situation. They placed themselves in harms way.

More sterling examples of intelligent life on earth.

[Bird of Prey]

Oh, well if NPR's running a story on it and it's been going on for a while it can't be stupid OR dangerous...

I just said it as a matter of information. No commentary implied.

[SC Harrison]

More sterling examples of intelligent life on earth.

Actually, it's more like sterling examples of how intelligent life evolved on Earth, if you think about it...

[robeiae]

Actually, it's more like sterling examples of how intelligent life evolved on Earth, if you think about it...
*takes finger out of nose and puts down #24 koozie with Busch longneck*

Hey! Who you talkin bout?

[Chasing the Horizon]

When I see something like this I just roll my eyes. Honestly, I have very little sympathy for anyone involved, including the 'innocent' car. First, that 'innocent' driver was out at 4AM, which is a very dangerous time to be on the roads regardless of whether there's any illegal street racing going on. The few drivers who aren't drunk are half asleep (or maybe all the way asleep!). Unless the street race was taking place just behind a blind curve (which I doubt), the oncoming driver should've seen something up ahead and slowed down. If the road was dark as you say, he should've been driving with his high beams on so he could see far enough to react. If he actually didn't have his headlights on at all, then he's at least as guilty as the street racers (if not more so).

90% of car accidents are caused by incompetent/irresponsible drivers, but 90% of those could've been prevented if the 'innocent' driver(s) involved were more highly skilled and paying more attention. I've prevented five serious accidents that I'm aware of by reacting instantly and correctly to another driver's irresponsible action. In my mind, you're only innocent if no amount of attention or reaction on your part could've prevented the accident.

I'm all for taking risks and hate the 'nanny state' with a firm passion. Of course street racing is stupid and irresponsible, but an unexpected drag race is far from the strangest (or most dangerous) thing I've encountered on America's highways. Whenever you get behind the wheel of a car you're effectively pointing a loaded gun with no safety at every person around you and another at your own chest. I strongly suggest you exercise due caution, and always be prepared to dodge the bullets others WILL be firing at you.

It sounds to me like everyone in this situation got pretty much what they deserved.

[Jcomp]

When I see something like this I just roll my eyes. Honestly, I have very little sympathy for anyone involved, including the 'innocent' car. First, that 'innocent' driver was out at 4AM, which is a very dangerous time to be on the roads regardless of whether there's any illegal street racing going on. The few drivers who aren't drunk are half asleep (or maybe all the way asleep!). Unless the street race was taking place just behind a blind curve (which I doubt), the oncoming driver should've seen something up ahead and slowed down. If the road was dark as you say, he should've been driving with his high beams on so he could see far enough to react. If he actually didn't have his headlights on at all, then he's at least as guilty as the street racers (if not more so).

90% of car accidents are caused by incompetent/irresponsible drivers, but 90% of those could've been prevented if the 'innocent' driver(s) involved were more highly skilled and paying more attention. I've prevented five serious accidents that I'm aware of by reacting instantly and correctly to another driver's irresponsible action. In my mind, you're only innocent if no amount of attention or reaction on your part could've prevented the accident.

Soooo.... having slower reflexes makes you guilty? Oh, and we're going to presume guilt for the other driver because they were up at 4am? Because NObody should be up and driving at that hour. Hell, they should just close all roads from 3am to 6am...

[Bird of Prey]

Soooo.... having slower reflexes makes you guilty? Oh, and we're going to presume guilt for the other driver because they were up at 4am? Because NObody should be up and driving at that hour. Hell, they should just close all roads from 3am to 6am...

Oh come on. If the bars are closed, there's no reason to be out at that hour.

[Jcomp]

Oh come on. If the bars are closed, there's no reason to be out at that hour.

Seriously?

[Bird of Prey]

Seriously?

It was a joke.

[Bravo]

no one can tell anymore.

[Bird of Prey]

no one can tell anymore.

As if there was a time when you could. . . .

[DWSTXS]

someone once told me 'nothing good ever happens at 2 am in the morning'

[Bird of Prey]

someone once told me 'nothing good ever happens at 2 am in the morning'


I think it was Waylon Jennings.

[oneblindmouse]

That poor bastard who drove into them...he has to suffer a lifetime of guilt for something he couldn't control BECAUSE of the racers. Outrageous.

Well said!

[Cranky]

When I see something like this I just roll my eyes. Honestly, I have very little sympathy for anyone involved, including the 'innocent' car. First, that 'innocent' driver was out at 4AM, which is a very dangerous time to be on the roads regardless of whether there's any illegal street racing going on. The few drivers who aren't drunk are half asleep (or maybe all the way asleep!). Unless the street race was taking place just behind a blind curve (which I doubt), the oncoming driver should've seen something up ahead and slowed down. If the road was dark as you say, he should've been driving with his high beams on so he could see far enough to react. If he actually didn't have his headlights on at all, then he's at least as guilty as the street racers (if not more so).

90% of car accidents are caused by incompetent/irresponsible drivers, but 90% of those could've been prevented if the 'innocent' driver(s) involved were more highly skilled and paying more attention. I've prevented five serious accidents that I'm aware of by reacting instantly and correctly to another driver's irresponsible action. In my mind, you're only innocent if no amount of attention or reaction on your part could've prevented the accident.

I'm all for taking risks and hate the 'nanny state' with a firm passion. Of course street racing is stupid and irresponsible, but an unexpected drag race is far from the strangest (or most dangerous) thing I've encountered on America's highways. Whenever you get behind the wheel of a car you're effectively pointing a loaded gun with no safety at every person around you and another at your own chest. I strongly suggest you exercise due caution, and always be prepared to dodge the bullets others WILL be firing at you.

It sounds to me like everyone in this situation got pretty much what they deserved.

Riiiiiight. FWIW, there are lots of folks that work graveyard shifts, and are plenty awake and alert at 4AM, even enough to drive a car. My stepfather did that for years. It's taken a long time for him to get used to living in the light.

Though I agree about drivers needing to be more careful. That's a no brainer. I almost bit it this year when someone driving some tank of a car drifted over the center line on a sharp curve(on a two lane highway), bringing him straight into my lane. I was forced off the road. My kids were in the car, and I'm one of those unfortunate souls that'll likely be killed by the freakin' airbag. (I'm lucky the law doesn't make me sit in a damned booster seat) If I hadn't practically crapped my pants from fear that I was about to die, I'd have called in the idjit's plate number.

[AnneMarble]

Lots of people are assuming that the driver was out drinking or carousing or whatever. (I know the above comments were meant as a joke, but other people have made similar comments.) It might be true. Yet there are legitimate reasons to be out very late at night. Lots of people work night time shifts. I even know proofreaders (of all people!) who work odd shifts (such as night time in D.C.) and have to drive home at very late hours. Now despite all that, he may very well have been out carousing. But at the same time, people aren't supposed to stand in the middle of a highway. :rolleyes: Also, while I've read reports that said the highway was used for racing because it was straight, on the photographs I saw on the local news, part of it looked curved.

OTOH it's also easy to ass/u/me you're all alone if you're on the road at a late hour. When I first started driving, I drove home from a bus trip to NYC at a very late hour -- around midnight, I think. Although I was driving on one of the main roads, there was no one else around, and I got all the lights because they changed when the sensors saw me coming. I started to expect to get all the lights, and I ... let's say I cut it a little close on one. :o I don't remember if it was red when I went through it, but it may have been. :eek:

[Bird of Prey]

I started to expect to get all the lights, and I ... let's say I cut it a little close on one. :o I don't remember if it was red when I went through it, but it may have been. :eek:


Uh oh. Nanny State is watching. . . .a code red-runner.

[Writer???]

How desperately stupid can people be?

I think Haskins said it best.

[Cranky]

How desperately stupid can people be?

I think Haskins said it best.

Doesn't he always? It's downright annoying! LOL

[AnneMarble]

The driver who hit the crowd has finally been identified as a 20-year-old man.

Here is an article from the Washington Times (http://washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080220/METRO/705057037/1004). According to the article, he was driving his brother home from band practice just before four in the morning. He says that his lights were on and that he did slam on the breaks. (Reports did mention skid marks.) However, he says that he didn't see the tire smoke that some reports said must have obscured his view. (This actually confirms what some of the survivors said -- that the tire smoke had dissipated by then.)

However (and this only shows up on page two of the article (http://washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080220/METRO/705057037/1004&template=nextpage)), he may have been driving with a suspended license at the time. :rolleyes: He was raised by his uncle, who was interviewed for the article.

[Tiger]

"We all do" what? Knock ourselves out or feel remorse for killing innocent people? I've never done either, so I'd ask you to speak for yourself.

While I agree that life is not without risk, I also believe that the word, "accident," is weak in cases such as this.

And, where do "the best of intentions" enter the picture from folks defying the law and killing innocents?