Which comes 1st? Characters or Plot?

[Lisa F]

I generally come up with a story idea first, but since my plots are riddled with holes, and my characters are shallow -I think I need a new approach. I've read (and heard) a lot of writers start with their characters first. I have a background in theatre where I did an unbelievable amount of work in character development. I think it's time to put this knowledge to work. I think if I create a cast of characters, and get to know my characters in depth, their stories will begin to emerge. Which comes 1st for you? Characters or plot?

[KTC]

I don't consider plot. It just happens as I write. I think I get these characters at the starting line and just start walking with them. Plot Happens.

[Devil Ledbetter]

Characters, definitely.

[Bufty]

Either - whichever happens.

[The Scip]

A charactermaybe. I don't know if I start with a whole list of characters. But certainly 1 character and then for me the story (plot as well as other characters) develops around that person.

[dawinsor]

I usually think of a character first, then spend a lot of time planning out exctiting things for them to do. Oddly though, I don't feel I really know that character until I'm deep in the first draft, when I've had a chance to get into their head as they act and react and I've felt my way to understanding the kind of person they truly are.

[sunna]

It's definitely characters for me. Once I've got them down, the plot pretty much creates itself.

[EelKat]

I created my characters 30 years ago and just keep coming up with new stories to tell about them

[AllieB]

Happens both ways for me, though it's more likely that I'll think of a circumstance/situation/"what if" sort of thing and then come up with characters to put into it. So I guess that's plot first, most of the time.

[S.H.P.]

Plot. I do find characters to be important, but if what I have on the page is lacking scope and clarity -- I don't care how great the characters are, I don't want to continue.

[Shadow_Ferret]

I often start with a scene. And that scene revolves around some characters. Those characters then go on creating more and more scenes until I've got my novel.

Plot takes care of itself.

[Stew21]

I start with a character. I have a few of them floating around in my head. I know they all have stories. Once I decide to write a story about this character, he introduces me to everyone I need to know to tell his story and I learn the plot as I go.

[megan_d]

Characters and plot tend to hit me as the same time.

[IdiotsRUs]

Sometimes I get the characters first, and then I think 'what would upset/frighten them the most?' and that's how I get their plot.

Sometimes I have a plot, and I think 'What sort of person would that upset/frighten the most?' and then I have my characters.

[DeleyanLee]

Writers tend to get one thing before the rest in their initial idea spark for the story, whether it's plot, character, world, theme. When a writer gets the same general kind of thing consistently, a pro friend calls them "plot-centric" or "character-centric" or whatever because that was the central kernel of the story and everything has to spin out of that spark. Everyone's different, and each story kernel could be different. It all depends on how your brain is wired to spark ideas.

Personally, I'm a mix between event (not plot--a single event) and character. I actively work to develop everything except plot because plot is, for me, the easy part and usually springs forth like Aretimus from Zeus' brow when I'm ready for it.

[CaroGirl]

They both usually happen so close together it's difficult to tell which came first. Usually I have a loose story idea and at least one character to put into the first scene or situation, and the story goes on from there.

[seun]

I've often thought about this and want to be able to say I'm one or the other, but that's not true. They both usually come around about the same time. Overall, it depends what's best for the story.

[M.P. Furo]

My characters definitely come first, and then they're like, "Hey, this is how I feel about the other characters." And then I figure out how that happened, which becomes the plot.

[Shady Lane]

Premise, mos def. So...I guess plot? But it's different, I suppose...I start with a hook and build from there.

[DWSTXS]

With me, it's Plot. Sometimes , I'll come up with a character and say, this charcater needs to be in this situation, and then I'll jot down the particulars, or write a short bio, or i'll recognize them to be perfect for a particular WIP

[Erin]

It's the main character for me. A main plot quickly develops and most secondary characters at the same time.

[donroc]

I usually see the characters and much of the story outline all at once.

[ClaudiaGray]

Usually I get a rough idea of character and premise at the same time. Then the character develops more, and after that, the plot starts to roll. And then the characters develop into their real selves at the very end. So for me it sort of toggles back and forth.

[HourglassMemory]

I've created my two major stories in both ways.
One was with the plot. it was my first ever story I thoguht of writing, so I was just coming up with the stuff I would like to see in my own story. The characters only came later.

And the other was me wanting to give a story to a character I had been drawing on napkins for months.

[ishtar'sgate]

Plot, definitely. I can't create characters in a vacuum. I plan out key scenes in my head and then decide what poor hapless creatures will be forced to face the stressful situations I have in store for them.:D
Linnea

[ChaosTitan]

Depends. Sometimes I'll get hit with a character, and the story sort of wraps itself around him or her. And then, like a few hours ago, I get hit with a neat premise and have to create characters to go along with it. Once I have one, the other sort of falls into line.

[hammerklavier]

Iterative progression:

1. Concept
2. "First" scene with main character(s)
3. Sparse plot outline
4. More writing (a chapter or two)
5. More plot work
6. Follow the characters from here.

[caromora]

I usually have the concept first, which can be about the character or the plot--"what happens when a vampire moves in next door?" or "what if a teenager tries to conceal her real life from her peers?"

Then I develop the characters and figure out what the worst possible thing is that can happen to those characters. That usually turns into the plot.

[Dragon-lady]

I generally come up with a story idea first, but since my plots are riddled with holes, and my characters are shallow -I think I need a new approach. I've read (and heard) a lot of writers start with their characters first. I have a background in theatre where I did an unbelievable amount of work in character development. I think it's time to put this knowledge to work. I think if I create a cast of characters, and get to know my characters in depth, their stories will begin to emerge. Which comes 1st for you? Characters or plot?
For me, definitely character. I start with only the vaguest idea of plot. I can't say I have no plot ideas but only as it affects the character/s I start with.

[Danger Jane]

The feeling comes first. Usually that's coupled with a character, who is coupled with a story of some kind...we are, after all, products of experience in large part. The story comes to me basically as a prototype--it has most of its pieces, just they're not so well developed.

[czjaba]

I guess I start with plot. But before I figure out the end, the characters have their own personalities developed and I go from there. It's back and forth for a while until I have an understanding of the personalities. I also have to have a clear picture of setting in mind so I know how they should look and dress.

[blacbird]

All the plot in the universe won't work unless your story is populated with characters worth caring about. This is an unfortunate flaw in a lot of "genre" manuscripts I've seen in writers' groups and seminars, so I'm addressing this observation to those, rather than to published books. But it seems a problem especially with "thrillers" and "fantasy".

caw

[maestrowork]

Characters, of course. Plot is driven by characters and their desires and conflicts and their action, thus their consequences. If you go the other way, meaning you plot the whole thing out (this must happen before that), and then fit characters into it doing those things, your story tends to be stiff, artificial, by the book, and two-dimensional. Your characters will feel like marionettes. To me, that's a very boring read.

Even a plot-driven story needs to have its "actors" doing interesting things based on their personalities. I mean, I bet even Dan Brown plotted out his stories based on the characters he had in mind: He probably knew who Robert Langdon was, and who the villains are (basic character sketches) before he actually plotted the whole thing.

Personally I find it hard to just plot out the events and then fit actors into it. That to me just feels so artificial, like playing with Lego with interchangeable blocks.


(note: plot and story is not the same thing. You can have a story before you have the characters first... but you must have the characters to carry out the plot to make the story).

[Sonneillon]

Characters for me, though sometimes I do start with a plot idea. For the most part, I make characters, usually in D&D format, to get an idea of what they're capable of. Then I figure out what setting is most appropriate for them. Then I ask them "well... what do you want to do?" and design conflict around that. KTC is right. You need characters who have layers, internal conflict, back story, and quirks. Even if it never comes up in the story, you should know their favorite flavor of ice cream. My rule is, a character is fleshed out properly if you can take one of those online personality research surveys on their behalf and not have to think too much about the answers.

- Sonne, Creator of Kite (who prefers strawberry) and Vaeyinn (who digs moose tracks).

[Varthikes]

I generally come up with a story idea first, but since my plots are riddled with holes, and my characters are shallow -I think I need a new approach. I've read (and heard) a lot of writers start with their characters first. I have a background in theatre where I did an unbelievable amount of work in character development. I think it's time to put this knowledge to work. I think if I create a cast of characters, and get to know my characters in depth, their stories will begin to emerge. Which comes 1st for you? Characters or plot?


I generally start with a story idea, myself. That or a plot. The series I'm working on right now started simply as an idea. Then, I thought about what I could do with that idea. People who have read the first book of the series have commented that I had a strong plot.

Characters I usually develop as I write.

[Neon]

For me, i tend to get an idea and then create the characters to better the plot.
I dont have it wrote down anyway that my characters have certain traits, i just have them in my head like seperate people (that makes me sound schizophrenic lol) but when i am writing dialogue, i can put myself in their place and think, how would this person react to that, what would they say etc etc.

[Brighid]

I started to reply by saying both, but after I thought about it I realized that either the character came first, or both came simultaneously.

The idea for my current WIP came from a newspaper article. The who, what, when, where and why came to me all at once. I then spent some time doing some research and smoothing out the details. It was if I just knew what the story had to say. It was an odd experience.

When the character comes first, it doesn't usually take much to figure out what kind of story he or she needs to tell.

[KarlaErikaCal]

Plot definitely comes first for me. If I have a whole bunch of characters and background info about them, I honestly don't know how to tie them all together. But I have the plot first, I'll make up characters that go along with it.

[bunnygirl]

For me it's usually situation first, then characters, then plot. I never let myself begin writing without a plot because that's the hardest thing for me and my characters tend to be very strong. Without some notion of what the story is and where it's going, the characters will wander around everywhere like stray cats and never actually get anywhere!

[hnh]

I usually have the characters first, then the plot grows from there. Sometimes I know the characters for a very long time before a story presents itself. Occasionally I'll get a separate, vague idea for a plot, and then eventually realize that I can match it up with characters that have already been swimming around in my mind. So, the plot never really comes first for me.

[Sean D. Schaffer]

Sometimes, plot; sometimes, characters. It just depends on the situation.

[Qui]

Setting and characters. I'm aiming for a organic-feeling plot, so, while I have some key events and a goal for this story, I don't have an outline. Hopefully, it won't be so natural that it'll be weedy and senseless, but that's what revision is for.

The dramatic training would definitely help you make the little habits of your characters more fun. Still, though, just do whatever's natural. :)

[RickN]

Inspiration has struck me both ways. I can work from either starting point.

[CaroGirl]

This is suddenly interesting to me because I just started a new novel and am able to analyse the process. I had an idea for a plot several weeks ago. I spent those weeks turning it around in my head but didn't write anything. Yesterday, two interesting characters came to me. I stuck them into the first scene of my new story idea and it worked. This morning I wrote the first page of the new novel.

Thus, although I had an idea, I found I couldn't proceed with writing it until I had some characters I could slot in.

[JimmyB27]

I usually have the concept first, which can be about the character or the plot--"what happens when a vampire moves in next door?" or "what if a teenager tries to conceal her real life from her peers?"

Then I develop the characters and figure out what the worst possible thing is that can happen to those characters. That usually turns into the plot.
This sounds a bit like what I do. I start with something far too vague to be considered a plot, and with no characters. Stuff like - 'What if there were a vigilante, like Batman, but with no money?', 'What if there were magical drugs in a fantasy world?', 'What if an atheist was declared the messiah?'. From there, the plot and the story grow, mostly from my subconscious, in that weird 'where the hell did that come from?' kind of way.
Actually, now I think of it, my characters grow in much the same way, and I tend to build up a stock of them and match them to stories.
So, I guess the real answer, for me, is that neither comes first.

All the plot in the universe won't work unless your story is populated with characters worth caring about. This is an unfortunate flaw in a lot of "genre" manuscripts I've seen in writers' groups and seminars, so I'm addressing this observation to those, rather than to published books. But it seems a problem especially with "thrillers" and "fantasy".

caw
This is true, but it doesn't necessarily mean that characters need to be your starting point, just that they need to be strong in the finished product.
If you were building a car, it wouldn't run without the engine, but you could still just as easily build the engine last as first. (Ok, so you couldn't put it in place until the rest was built, but you see my point).

[Lisa F]

This is what I'm planning with my WIP. I know what genre I want to write it, so I imagined a family. I thought of the family's personality - the parents and children. Next I searched for "just right" names for the time period (historical). During this time I began daydreaming the parent's back story. Now I want to develop each character in the family in depth. Stories for different characters are already beginning to unfold. I can only write one character's story at a time, but I imagine this as a series with each story standing on its' own. I think if I think through the characters first, the stories will begin to emerge, and then I can plot. I am writing a lot on each because it helps me to form the characters more firmly in my mind. I'm going to put attribute details because I'm terrible with real names of people, much less remembering the details of characters. I really appreciate all of the discussion here. I don't recall if I mentioned this yet, but I heard Joan Bauer speak once (YA author). She said she wrote about 40 pages on her characters before she began the book. I thought that was very interesting.

[scribbler1382]

Interesting stuff. Months ago, I had the phrase (names have been changed to protect the paranoid) "Kim and Louie save the world" come into my head. Who was Kim? Who was Louie? Why did the world need saving? How did they save it? (add a million other questions) Answers? I had no idea. So I put the characters aside, and created a plot, whole and complete. Then I tried to "plug in" my characters. This did not go well, to say the least. I ended up with 30,000 words of nothing. Oh, the scenes were really cool when looked at on their own, but it was like I was writing a separate novel for each character that had nothing to do with the other characters' novels. As if that wasn't bad enough, if a character had five scenes, each of those seemed unrelated to each other. It was like every time I started a scene I was restarting the book.

So, I started over. This time I went from a character perspective letting the general plot grow logically from one scene to the next. Oh, I had a "story" before I started, but as others have said, that's different from plot. Will this be saleable when I'm done? I have no idea. But at least now everyone seems to be playing in the same book at the same time.

[Oddsocks]

When I write, I do it for plot. That is, it's the plot that really inspires me. I need to know where it's going, what it's going to be about, before I can start it.

But when I care about a story, it's for the characters. Even stories that never get written because they're weak or just not interesting/different enough to inspire me to write them have their characters there, living in my head.

Sometimes I have characters without plot, and have to wait until a plot in which they make sense comes along. Often I have plot without characters, but plot does bring characters with it - I see a scene from the plot in my head; there are people in the scene; and already I have visuals on characters and some idea of their personalities. Once characters are more solidly developed then, they shape the plot around them a bit, and it seems to make more sense. Points stop being vague like 'antagonist is victorious in this conflict' and start being character specific - the personality features and past experiences of each that make this so.

In all, I think I respect plot far more than characters, but love characters much more than plot - and that's true both of me writing and of the stuff I read.

[Lisa F]

Today I was writing some notes about one of my characters. First I wrote down his name and physical attributes. Next I wrote down things about him that just came to me. By the end of the page (handwritten), I discovered my character is afraid of failure. This fear will be the "transformation point." It was an interesting experience how I came to this point through this exercise. It was a major "aha" for my character.

[Raphee]

I think plot should be separated from story here.

I have an idea of a situation, the characters and a story to tell. The plot is really a nebulous thing until I know the complete story at the end of first draft.
I think it's clear, Im a panster.

[lute]

As many have said, my stories too are generally character driven. Once I start to write them--whether it be in an excluded, short story, or as I write the actual novel itself--their own problems, issues and desires develop and cause controversy with the rest of my characters, activating the plot. Some of the traits my characters have I would have never come up with by thinking about the story from a plot point of view. But they write themselves that way, and I am the mere scribe to their lives. : )

[Ervin]

I came up with my MC first, then the story and characters both came at the same time.

[WildScribe]

I usually start with plot or a combination of characters and plot (in other words, there are these people and this thing happens to them), but I also from time to time will have a character hijack my brain and demand a story, and I just have to write around them.

[dizz]

I start with my concept or idea, then I come up with my characters and proceed to develop my plot around them.

[LilliCray]

Depends on the situation for me. Once I came up with this great plot for a (*coughcoughcoughcough*) story. Then I came up with this really fun character, and I absolutely loved her. So I scrapped the story (which by then I hated--big surprise) and tried to find a plot that would really fit her. So all the (1000+) stories that came afterwards started with her.

And once I found a random name that I liked, and then the character it belonged to started talking to me... it was only slightly weird. ;)

But sometimes it starts with a plot. Like my one story with the forbidden magics... now that was fun to come up with!

Wow, sorry about that. Got a little sidetracked. Carry on. :D

[lfraser]

Two of my three main characters came to me firstof all, and story developed around them. I recently noted that the scene I had in my head as the original inspiration doesn't appear in my WIP.