Use of Dialogue. "Shouting"

[BlueLucario]

I have a question and this has been commonly argued among other writers, which confuses me.

Let's say someone is shouting on top of their lungs.

Could you use all caps to emphasize what is being said or use an exclamation mark at the end?

What if there's an argument, like a child hearing two parents fight?

[DeleyanLee]

Thinking about it, I don't believe I've seen the all caps thing done in published finished. In chat and the internet and all, sure, but not in published fiction. It's usually done with a single exclaimation mark and then some action tag (she shouted, he covered his ears when she shouted, etc). Even in arguments.

How do you see it done in the published books you read?

[maestrowork]

JK Rowling does that. But she could get away with almost anything. I think Stephen King does that, too, for dramatic value, but again, he could get away with anything.

My preference is just say do: "You're a moron," she shouted.

Yes, I would not even use the exclamation mark, but that's arguable. All CAPS, however, are generally frowned upon.

"YOU ARE A MORON!!!!!!!" she shouted. just looks amateurish.

[Bufty]

Avoid the 'all caps'.

Use exclamation marks if there is absolutely no other way of showing whatever you want to show. But don't use them for every line or every other line - they become meaningless. Work instead on the correct choice of words and sentence construction to show the exchange is heated.

If a child overhears its parents fighting, and the reader knows this, it can be assumed they are shouting, and the dialogue should show this. One of them is hardly likely to butt into the other's dialogue with 'Will you shut your damned mouth and let me get a word in edgewise' without shouting, eh? In which case you wouldn't even need to say -shouted X, because I presumably know which one is speaking or being interrupted.

And Blue, people shout at the top of their lungs -not on the top.

I have a question and this has been commonly argued among other writers, which confuses me.

Let's say someone is shouting on top of their lungs.

Could you use all caps to emphasize what is being said or use an exclamation mark at the end?

What if there's an argument, like a child hearing two parents fight?

[BlueLucario]

How do you see it done in the published books you read?

I think maestro work has said that. J.K Rowling does it in her Harry Potter books. So I thought it was okay.

But if someone says.

"I hate you." Sally shouted, smashing her china set to the floor.

"You suck." Jack bellowed.

But in the way it's written it doesn't sound like they were shouting. It's like the quotes contradict the tag.

[Potluck]

I think maestro work has said that. J.K Rowling does it in her Harry Potter books. So I thought it was okay. .

I'm finding there's a lot of stuff that J.K. does in her first books that are not recommended by the editing books I'm reading.

[IceCreamEmpress]

I think maestro work has said that. J.K Rowling does it in her Harry Potter books. So I thought it was okay.

But if someone says.

"I hate you." Sally shouted, smashing her china set to the floor.

"You suck." Jack bellowed.

But in the way it's written it doesn't sound like they were shouting. It's like the quotes contradict the tag.

I think you'd use an exclamation point there.

"I hate you!" Sally shouted. She smashed the china on the floor.


In John Irving's A Prayer for Owen Meany, one of the characters ALWAYS SPEAKS IN TINY CAPITAL LETTERS.

However, I think new authors should try to get standard grammar, punctuation, and typography conventions down perfectly before they start experimenting.

[ChaosTitan]

"I hate you." Sally shouted, smashing her china set to the floor.

"You suck." Jack bellowed.


Even if you were to write those sentences, you'd use a comma inside of the quotes, not a period.

I think you'd use an exclamation point there.

"I hate you!" Sally shouted. She smashed the china on the floor.


Doesn't the exclamation mark make the word "bellowed" somewhat redundant?

What about...

"I hate you!" Sally smashed the china to the floor.

[Windsong]

Just my opinion. I would avoid all caps. They do pack a punch, but it can lose its effectiveness very quickly. I would show the reader the emotions the character is going through:

"I hate you!" Sally screamed, hurling the priceless china set at the wall.

I agree with sticking to standard grammar and punctuation--especially when starting out.

[Bufty]

Screaming anything intelligible is pretty nigh impossible.

To me, if I know - before the dialogue (and to my eye, it reads better if I do)- that she 'hurled the china set against the wall', that is perfectly adequate to tell me how the following "I hate you!" is delivered, without any further descriptive vocal tag.

[jannawrites]

I don't know how often italics are used in finished works (I think I rarely see it, come to think of it), but through my WIP I emphasize with them.

"You're a moron!" she shouted.

[Zelenka]

The all caps in the Harry Potter books actually stood out to me as it looked a bit amateurish, IMO, and actually jarred me out of reading, weird though that sounds.

I do use exclamation marks in my own writing (I hadn't actually realised how many exclamation marks I've used so far until I went to find an example, but then my MC is having a bit of a hissy fit at the beginning), but I use them both where there isn't a dialogue tag and occasionally with one.

To me, 'Stop,' Barry shouted. (a particularly brilliant line from my own WIP ;) ) looks odd. I have 'Stop!' Barry shouted. The dialogue tag is there because until then there've been several people involved in this almighty row, but to me it needed the exclamation mark as well as otherwise it looks a bit weak. I suppose it depends on the emotion of the piece - at this point things are really heated and Barry is seriously cheesed off, hence I think it needs the double emphasis.

[IceCreamEmpress]

An exclamation mark is just what its name implies--a piece of punctuation that is meant to mark an exclamation.

This is fine:

"Oh, poo!" Her thumb throbbed with pain. It was so easy to miss the nail with this kind of hammer.

This, not so fine:

"Oh, poo!" Her thumb throbbed with pain! It was so easy to miss the nail with this kind of hammer!

In other words, if you use it sparingly, and in dialogue only, you should be fine.

[BlueLucario]

So all caps is out of the question huh.

Sorry about the periods in the quotes there. I was in a rush.

[CaroGirl]

J.K. Rowling writes YA fantasy and I think the rules for writing for children are slightly different than the rules for writing for adults.

In most cases, the way the author intends dialogue to be spoken should be implied by the context. It's the author's job to make sure the reader knows exactly what's going on in the scene and how and why the character reacts the way he does.

[BlueLucario]

What if you're writing for anyone who reads it, children or adults?

[CaroGirl]

What if you're writing for anyone who reads it, children or adults?
A large part of ANY writing -- whether it's marketing material, technical documentation, fiction, non-fiction -- is knowing your audience. J.K. wrote Harry Potter for young people. The fact that it became a sensation among young people and adults is nothing sort of a phenomenon. But she had an audience in mind when she wrote it.

[BlueLucario]

Oh. -_-.

I have a question about the all caps quotes. What exactly is the problem with it? I may have found it but I can't explain it.

So all matters is about dialogue is what is said. I know the dialogue tag should just be said. But All caps seem to emphasize everything.

It's not just J.K Rowling, I see this in there were a few authors, but I can't remember. I'm sorry, I can't concentrate anymore.

[CaroGirl]

Oh. -_-.

I have a question about the all caps quotes. What exactly is the problem with it? I may have found it but I can't explain it.

So all matters is about dialogue is what is said. I know the dialogue tag should just be said. But All caps seem to emphasize everything.

It's not just J.K Rowling, I see this in there were a few authors, but I can't remember. I'm sorry, I can't concentrate anymore.
Um, do whatever you want. It's your book. If the editor or agent doesn't like it, she'll either reject the ms or ask you to change it.

[BlueLucario]

Um, do whatever you want. It's your book. If the editor or agent doesn't like it, she'll either reject the ms or ask you to change it.


Er. Okay. THank you all.

[maestrowork]

Blue, you do that all the time. People give you advice and suggestions based on best practices and our experience, and you seem to always come back and say, "But..." You seem to want to hear us say "oh, go ahead, do all caps." Why not just accept our advice and refrain from using all caps? It's very frustrating for us to give you advice when you always turn around and say, "BUT, JK Rowling did it." You are not JK Rowling. Instead of latching on a handful of writers, why not look through more books in the library or book stores and see how many authors use all caps? Did Hemingway use all caps? Did Toni Morrison use all caps? Did John Grisham use all caps?


ALL CAPS is amateurish. If you write your dialogue well, there is absolutely no reason why you need to use all caps to emphasize it.

"Get out of there!" she shouted.

is not different than

"GET OUT OF THERE!" she shouted.


Chances are you will be rejected unless your book is really that great to begin with, or unless you're an established writer like Rowling. And even if you're accepted, chances are the editor will ask you to change them to lowercase. But it is your book. You can write the whole thing in caps if you want. But please don't ask for advice and then turn around and say, "BUT..." No one will want to give you advice anymore if you keep that up.

[BlueLucario]

Actually, after a few hours of thinking, I find that all caps are not only too "amateurish" (I'll look it up.) It's also somewhat cliche. Ever since our internet age, where people would rant in ALL CAPS, if you see it in a book, it probably would make you cringe a bit. I thought back to the Harry Potter Books and thought about the all caps text in there. Sort of made me cringe, and ask myself "Is that even necessary? That is so old."

Of course, Dialogue is one of my strengths now(uhhhhh). It was just a curious question.

Thank you all for posting.

[hammerklavier]

The phrasing of things change as people raise their voices:

"You're a moron," she snickered.
"You are a moron!" she shouted. (Many people don't use as many contractions at this level.)
"Moron!" she screamed.
"Oh yeah? Well you suck!" he bellowed. (Somehow "You suck" doesn't seem like enough.)

[Bufty]

These dialogue descriptive tags do not add anything if the unfolding story clearly aids the interpretation of the dialogue - which it should.

They are too often used as lazy props.

The phrasing of things change as people raise their voices:

"You're a moron," she snickered.
"You are a moron!" she shouted. (Many people don't use as many contractions at this level.)
"Moron!" she screamed.
"Oh yeah? Well you suck!" he bellowed. (Somehow "You suck" doesn't seem like enough.)

[BlueLucario]

These dialogue descriptive tags do not add anything if the unfolding story clearly aids the interpretation of the dialogue - which it should.

They are too often used as lazy props.


Uh....... Excuse me for being... well... stupid, but I don't get what the both of you are saying.

[Stew21]

"Blue, What Bufty is saying is that the dialogue should speak for itself in the context of the story and the knowledge of the characters and situations.
Using tags like snickered, bellowed, etc are props where context and scene aren't enough to support the dialogue by themselves.

[BlueLucario]

"Blue, What Bufty is saying is that the dialogue should speak for itself in the context of the story and the knowledge of the characters and situations.
Using tags like snickered, bellowed, etc are props where context and scene aren't enough to support the dialogue by themselves.
\
OoooooH! Okay, sorry I couldn't understand.

[Bufty]

If, from the narrative and the way the scene is developing, it is obvious that a row is brewing, it should not be necessary to rely on tags like 'shouted' and 'yelled' and 'screamed'.

Careful word choices and body language or actions accompanying the dialogue should be sufficient to reveal escalating anger as the ever more heated dialogue is bounced back and forth. That type of scene takes hard work.

But it's easier simply to say 'screamed' or 'shrieked' or whatever, and that's why use of these tags can often appear to be 'lazy.

Uh....... Excuse me for being... well... stupid, but I don't get what the both of you are saying.

[dpaterso]

If I can just chuck my 2 cents into the pot...

Methinks it all depends on genre and style.

Literary work certainly doesn't suit those hammy, intrusive said bookisms.

But maybe fantasy isn't so particular? "LOOK OUT!" Brutus bellowed, slamming the door a split-second before a dozen arrows slammed into the wood. Me, I'd want to convey that extra excitement.

In small doses, at relevant dramatic moments, of course.

Carry on.

-Derek

[Bufty]

Agreed, but then your examples are always so good!! Apart from the slamming/slammed of course!:snoopy:

"LOOK OUT!" Brutus bellowed, slamming the door a split-second before a dozen arrows slammed into the wood.

-Derek

[maestrowork]

I would still contend that the all caps emphasis is not needed -- they just remind me of those Batman TV shows and graphic novels. There's nothing wrong with:

"Look out!" Brutus bellowed, slamming the door a split-second before a dozen arrows penatrated the tree.

[dpaterso]

Agreed, but then your examples are always so good!! Apart from the slamming/slammed of course!:snoopy:
Er... someone must have sneaked in and edited my message when I wasn't looking. Those jokers!

I would still contend that the all caps emphasis is not needed -- they just remind me of those Batman TV shows and graphic novels. There's nothing wrong with:

"Look out!" Brutus bellowed, slamming the door a split-second before a dozen arrows penatrated the tree.
Fair enough, each to their own, tho' if that's the case I'd downgrade "bellowed" to "shouted"

-Derek

[Dragon-lady]

If I can just chuck my 2 cents into the pot...

Methinks it all depends on genre and style.

Literary work certainly doesn't suit those hammy, intrusive said bookisms.

But maybe fantasy isn't so particular? "LOOK OUT!" Brutus bellowed, slamming the door a split-second before a dozen arrows slammed into the wood. Me, I'd want to convey that extra excitement.

In small doses, at relevant dramatic moments, of course.

Carry on.

-DerekDon't know where you got the idea that lazy writing is acceptable in fantasy. Bookisms are not acceptable in fantasy. It is particularly disapproved of in that genre.

Intrusive writing and use of an authorial voice is no more acceptable in fantasy than in your "literary" work that you apparently think is so much better.

That doesn't convey extra excitement. It just doesn't. Excitment comes from good strong writing not from throwing in caps which is certainly not acceptable.

Not only are those examples not good, they stink. That is so bad the reader would laugh as they tossed the book in the trash.

[maestrowork]

Fair enough, each to their own, tho' if that's the case I'd downgrade "bellowed" to "shouted"


I think you spend too much time on your screenplays (where CAPS are allowed or even encouraged). ;)

[hammerklavier]

The question was about yelling, the examples given are not part of an unfolding story.

These dialogue descriptive tags do not add anything if the unfolding story clearly aids the interpretation of the dialogue - which it should.

They are too often used as lazy props.

[Bufty]

I'm not sure what you are driving at, Hammerklavier, but is not unreasonable to assume most questions asked here are raised because a problem has arisen relative to the question during the writing of a novel or a short story or essay or whatever.

The question was about yelling, the examples given are not part of an unfolding story.

[hammerklavier]

I was merely pointing out that my advice was about shouting. The dialogue tags were in use from #3 of this thread, although I added snickered for convenience.

[Bufty]

And I was talking generally about descriptive tags.

[BlueLucario]

Don't know where you got the idea that lazy writing is acceptable in fantasy. Bookisms are not acceptable in fantasy. It is particularly disapproved of in that genre.
.
Call me stupid. A question out of curiosity, how are said bookisms lazy writing? I thought it means trying to hard to add excitement.

[CaroGirl]

Call me stupid. A question out of curiosity, how are said bookisms lazy writing? I thought it means trying to hard to add excitement.
Simple. Because it's easier to add a modifier (an -ly) or any descriptor other than "said", than it is to set a strong scene that doesn't require a modifier or descriptor. For example, it's considered a cop-out to say, "I hate you," Joan said, vehemently. Rather than set up this quote so the reader knows Joan speaks vehemently without having to say it. It's a show v. tell thing.

ETA: Bookisms: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialogue_%28fiction%29