Making an agent list to query

[Dragon-lady]

I'm not sure the title is quite right for my question, but here goes. :)

Just as background, I sold my previous fantasy novella to a small publishing house without an agent and have sold several short stories. Within a couple of weeks I'll be ready to query my 100,000 word fantasy novel. Ok... so I'm making a list to query and planning on sending them 5 to 10 at a time every month or so.

On choosing the agents to query, I'm trying to only query agents who I can confirm either from my own knowledge or from Publishers Marketplace that they have SOLD novels of the same subgenre--heroic fantasy.

Now a lot of agents say they'll consider fantasy on their website or PM page who have never sold any fantasy at all or never sold any in my subgenre (as far as I can tell). So... I'm wondering if I should consider submitted queries to them or not. Any opinions or experience with this?

Thanks.

[ORION]

Keep in mind all sales are not listed on Publishers Marketplace. In many cases agents wish to widen the types of books they handle and also they may have had conversation with editors who say " I'm looking for X"

[Dragon-lady]

I'm sure you're right. But how do I know that? Would it be better to send queries to every agent who says they would be willing to consider fantasy? I have the feeling some of them have it there just on the "well, maaaybe someday I'll find a fantasy I like" theory but aren't really that interested. Or am I wrong about that?

Edit: Obviously, I'm trying to target agents who are seriously interested in selling the kind of novel that I write. Maybe I'm targetting too much. I'm trying to figure out the best way of going about the whole thing. :)

[ORION]

Yeah I would send to each one that want's fantasy- My agent has lunch with editors all the time and they tell her what they're looking for...If an agent falls in love with your story - that's HUGE...
When I have lunch with my editor she often chats informally about what she's looking for...

[Dragon-lady]

I just feel like an agent that has always sold only urban fantasy isn't likely to fall in love with my heroic fantasy. She probably doesn't care for the subgenre. Admittedly, maybe I'm assuming too much. And do the editors at Tor, Ace and Baen really have to say "we're looking for SF and Fantasy"? :D

Sorry. I'm not trying to be argumentative and I appreciate you giving me your advice which is certainly knowledgeable. This seems like such an important step and I really want to do it "right" --if there is such a thing. :)

Edit: I recall at some point Nathan posting that one of the things he likes about being an agent is that he can handle what he wants rather than what someone says he has to. So I suspect most agents do pick out the genre and subgenre that they like--and there is a big dividing line between certain fantasy subgenre.

Of course, once I go through my A, B and C list of the ones who specialize in what I write--I may well come down to querying everyone in the world anyway. I tend to worry over things too much. ;)

[Carrie R.]

I think you query the agents you're interested in. If there's an agent you really like but they haven't sold fantasy (and they say they're interested in fantasy) I see no reason not to query them. If you get an offer of representation then you can ask them about their sales history in your genre.

Clearly we all want to query agents we think will want to represent us and our books, but I wouldn't narrow my choices unnecessarily.

For me, I sent out about 10 queries in my first round. I wouldn't have sent out any more queries until I'd gotten responses on those -- if you're not getting requests on the first batch then it's worth taking another look at your query. For that reason, I wouldn't set an arbitrary schedule of 5-10 queries every month -- I'd be more deliberate. Send the first batch, see if the response tells you something about your query and then send the second batch. At that point, once you start getting requests and know you have a solid and catching query letter, I'd open up the field and submit more.

[Dragon-lady]

That sounds like sound advise, Carrie. I'll keep in mind to see what reactions I get before sending out more.

My question, I suppose, is about your comment:

If there's an agent you really like but they haven't sold fantasy (and they say they're interested in fantasy) I see no reason not to query them.Since I don't know any agents personally, how do I know if there's an agent I would really like? Sure I've read some agent blogs, Nathan's and Kristen Nelson's in particular. But otherwise, I don't know how you get a feel for who you might like except by what you can find out about their sales records (and, needless to say, avoiding the bad ones on the P&E and Writers Beware list).

If you don't know any agents, how can you tell? (Yes, I'm a worrier. LOL) I'm really going on everything I do know about agents when I go by their sales records rather than narrowing the list. Maybe I should know more. That I'll admit, although I'm not quite sure how. :)

[victoriastrauss]

I would not take a chance on an agent who expresses interest in fantasy but hasn't actually sold any. I would stick to agents who'd actually sold fantasy to the publishers you'd like to be published by.

SF/fantasy is a pretty small subsection of publishing, and also rather cliquish. An agent who hasn't sold into that market--even if they express an interest in fantasy--may not know his or her way around the little niche well enough to be most effective in targeting your book to the right editor--and with such a small market, every submission counts. This is especially true for selling foreign rights once your domestic rights have been sold--agents who aren't experts in the domestic fantasy market may be even less expert in overseas markets, or work with co-agents who don't normally deal with fantasy at all. (I speak from experience here.)

I wouldn't worry too much about the fine distinctions between subgenres. Obviously you don't want to send an agent a heroic fantasy if s/he specifically says s/he doesn't want these--but most editors buy in multiple subgenres, and an agent with a fantasy track record doesn't need to have sold a heroic fantasy to know who would be likely to buy one.

Locus magazine is a good resource for news on who's selling what in SF/fantasy. Writer Melinda Goodin has compiled Locus sales reports for the past few years into a spreadsheet (http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/%7Emgoodin19/locus.htm)--this is a fab resource for finding out about agents.

- Victoria

[Dragon-lady]

Wow, thanks, Victoria! The link didn't work but maybe I need to be a member. I'll check on that. :)

What you are saying about the cliquishness of the market is what I had heard. Thanks again. It is a good point about not worrying so much about subgenre.

[eqb]

Wow, thanks, Victoria! The link didn't work but maybe I need to be a member.

You don't need to be a member. Try this one. (http://members.optusnet.com.au/~mgoodin68/0107_1007_Locus.pdf) (It's 2007 data, but if you google, you can find her spreadsheets for a few previous years.)

[Dragon-lady]

Cool! Thanks. That one works. :)

[ExposingCorruption]

Speaking as a novice who doesn't read or write fantasy (just so you know how much value to put into what I say), if an agent states that they are interested in fantasy, it could be that they are still waiting to receive some well written "heroic fantasy" so that they can make their first sale. And maybe lots of the heroic fantasy writers are being picky about agents and they are unwittlingly passing up these agents who could sell their books.

Any agent who has sold heroic fantasy had to have a "first sale." If an agent is interested in fantasy, or you think that he/she may be worth asking, go ahead and query them. They could very well be seeking heroic fantasy and you could be their first sale. If it's an email query, that makes it all the more easier.

[IceCreamEmpress]

I'd start with the people who have sold books for your favorite authors in your genre. If none of them turn out to be a match, then it might be time to consider broadening your net.

[caromora]

You could always go to a bookstore (or use Amazon, I suppose) and find books that are similar to yours. See if they acknowledge their agents in the front. If not, just write down the author's name and google it or use querytracker.com to find out who the agent is. That should give you a good list of agents who are selling books like yours.

[Stew21]

I think querytracker has a section where you can search authors and find their agents.
Go find authors that write what you write, search them on querytracker and you can see who represents them. See if they are accepting queries by going to agentquery.com and searching for the agent (you can also find their submission guidelines there).

Hold on...there's an AW link to it, I'll go find it.


eta: here it is.

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79090

[victoriastrauss]

Sorry about the non-working link, Dragon-lady. Here's the main page (http://members.optusnet.com.au/%7Emgoodin68/locus.htm), with sales reports from 2004 through 2008.

Any agent who has sold heroic fantasy had to have a "first sale." If an agent is interested in fantasy, or you think that he/she may be worth asking, go ahead and query them. They could very well be seeking heroic fantasy and you could be their first sale.
I'm sorry, but this is poor advice, especially given your own admission that you are "a novice who doesn't read or write fantasy."

(This, by the way, is a textbook example of why it can be dangerous to try and learn the ropes by using the Internet.)

- Victoria

[Dragon-lady]

I would be embarrassed to have to go to Amazon or a bookstore to find out who writes my genre. I can go to my bookshelf. :D

Unfortunately, the agents of a couple of my favorite authors don't accept queries, but some of them do. At the moment, I'm filling in more names and just trying to be sure I'm taking the right tack with this whole thing.

Querytracker is a great tool. I tend to depend more on Publishers Marketplace, but no one tool is sufficient. I'm thinking of adding a subscription to Locus as well. There is no such thing as enough information.

Thanks for the updated link, Victoria. That is really going to be useful.

Edit: Really useful is putting it mildly! Amazing the info on this thing. Thanks again for pointing it out to me.

[ExposingCorruption]

I'm sorry, but this is poor advice, especially given your own admission that you are "a novice who doesn't read or write fantasy." - Victoria

I don't want to argue, but the fact is that any legit agent who has sold heroic fantasy had to have a "first sale." That's simple logic. And if she believes that an agent may be worth asking based on what she could determine about the agent, the worst the agent could do is either a) not respond, or b) turn her down.

[rtilryarms]

I don't want to argue, but ....

My experience tells me that the word "but" neutralizes all the preceding words.

Anyway...

You are only minimally correct. People make first sales, achievements, and marks under supervision. No one develops bona fides out of the blue. Think about your argument and you will see that it is watered down irrelevance.

The only bad advice is that advice not taken and you are trying your best to hoard your unfair share.

I think "Thank you" would have been more appropriate.

JMHO though.

[IceCreamEmpress]

Seeing as Victoria is a very successful author of fantasy novels, I think her advice on the topic of how to get a fantasy novel published should carry tremendous credibility.

[JennaGlatzer]

I don't want to argue, but the fact is that any legit agent who has sold heroic fantasy had to have a "first sale." That's simple logic. And if she believes that an agent may be worth asking based on what she could determine about the agent, the worst the agent could do is either a) not respond, or b) turn her down.

Actually, the worst the agent could do is say yes, then waste a year (or more) of the author's time and mess up future chances for the author by submitting the manuscript inappropriately.

What Victoria is saying (how presumptuous of me to speak for her... sorry, Victoria. ;) ) is that it's actually unlikely for those new agents to make a "first sale" at all. There are lots and lots and lots of people who think it would be fun to be an agent. "How hard can it be?" they figure. "Just get some clients and send their manuscripts to publishers. Presto!" But as Victoria said, it's a pretty tight-knit circle-- a brand new agent had better have the right connections, know who's buying what at that time, understand tastes and trends and timing...

The only way you can be reasonably assured that the new agent has this potential is if he or she has been working as a "junior" agent or agent's assistant at a reputable agency, or has held prestigious positions in publishing houses (for example, if a senior editor at a major publisher decided to switch to agenting, that person would probably be worth a chance). But if you're just talking about some random new agent who claims to have connections (but with no concrete proof of having worked in an agency or publisher whose name you recognize), chances are that your work is just going to be tied up for no good reason.

I know that if I were a new author seeking an agent, I'd absolutely rather "waste" my time querying lots of top agents and getting rejections along the way, rather than taking the route easier to garner an acceptance (agents with no track record are more likely to take me on)-- because in the long run, I know that the former group is much, much, much more likely to make a sale for me.

I hope the above made sense... I am on Benadryl and am getting slightly foggy-brained. ;)

[waylander]

I absolutely agree.
Query all the top agents, but keep a particular watch out for newly-appointed junior agents at these top agencies. They will have the mentoring and they will be looking to pick up more clients than the well-established folks.

[Carrie R.]

I agree -- I should have clarified what I said. I would focus my first efforts on agents who have a clear track record in your genre. However, I would also research agents at agencies that have a track record in your genre. While I do think that every agent has to have their first sale, I think it's "safer" to go with an agent who has the back-up and knowledge of an agency behind them. When I was searching for agents I had a few that wanted my book to be their first YA sale or to build their small YA list -- in such a case I looked to their agency to see whether I would be taking too much of a risk with this -- were there other agents with lots of YA sales, did the agency have a strong track record, etc. I would not advocate taking a chance on an agent with no track record and no other form of support. But sometimes you have to get to the point of being able to talk to them to figure this out.

As for figuring out which agents you like, I'd look at things like their blogs, websites, sometimes you can find interviews if you google, and their client list. That way you can tell if you think you and your work would be a good fit for them.

[Dragon-lady]

As Victoria pointed out, fantasy seems to have a particular reputation for cliquishness. Apparently it's a club that isn't easy to break into except by starting with an agency that is already in the club. I'm not sure that is so much true with other genre but I haven't researched them either. But there is good reason to think that someone who doesn't have contacts with the fantasy houses would have difficulty selling a novel, even one they liked.

Using the Locus spreadsheet, information from PM, and some other sources, I have a list of 48 agents that I feel pretty confident in querying. It's not a long list as such things go, but it is one that I absolutely know the agents sell fantasy. I'll start with the ones who I also know the agents sometimes sell heroic fantasy, just because agents sometimes seem to have a strong preference as to subgenre as well. Taking that into consideration can't hurt. :)

Further down my list, I have agents who have sold other types of fantasy. At this point, although there are agents such as Nathan who seem really nice, I don't feel that I know enough about what the agents would be like to work with to make a judgment about that. When we get to the point of talking about representation, I'll have to figure that part out.

And thanks again for all the help and suggestions.

[ExposingCorruption]

Jenna, I guess that I didn't word my post correctly when I said, "If an agent states that they are interested in fantasy, it could be that they are still waiting to receive some well written 'heroic fantasy' so that they can make their first sale."

What I was trying to say is that an agent who has a track record for selling fantasy may still be waiting for their first "heroic fantasy" sale simply because they haven't received any decent stories that would fall under that sub-genre. I was trying to say that the agents who have sold heroic fantasy could have had a substantial number of fantasy sales before they sold their first heroic fantasy.

I was definitely NOT trying to say that she should query NEW agents, although looking back on my post, I can see that it comes across that way. My apologies to all those who interpreted it that way.

[Dragon-lady]

I did understand what you meant, EC. For some reason you seem to attract disputes although I think your intentions are good. I'm not quite sure why that happens.

Anyway, I think your point that people who have sold other types of fantasy but not heroic might still be interested is well-taken. A couple of other people actually said the same thing. :)

[rtilryarms]

I did understand what you meant, EC. For some reason you seem to attract disputes although I think your intentions are good. I'm not quite sure why that happens.

Anyway, I think your point that people who have sold other types of fantasy but not heroic might still be interested is well-taken. A couple of other people actually said the same thing. :)


EC,

I don't want to come off too harsh, but it is the harsh type of input which has been most helpful (and profitable) to me over the last few years.

If you write something that people read as different from what you meant to say....what does that say about your writing skills?
None of us are stupid or dumb, and you are posting to a board laden with successful professionals.

It is the whole intent of this board to encourage everyone to be better, more successful writers. Get your point across and write it exactly the way you mean for it to say.

Is this a fair assessment of us?

[ExposingCorruption]

I guess I could spend time editing and polishing my posts, just like I do with my query letter, book proposal, and MS. But the post in question was to Dragon-lady and she knew what I meant.

I do appreciate the constructive criticism that I've received on the forum.

[Dragon-lady]

rtilryarms, you may well have a point. EC does seem to rub people the wrong way at times so he might could be more careful in how he expresses himself. But I have to admit I rarely am as careful with my posts as I am with most of my writing. There has been more than one (well, a bunch to be honest) that later I looked at and winced. They were a grammatical mess and sometimes didn't come anywhere near saying what I meant. I sure hope that I won't be judged as a writer by them. :e2cry:

So I guess I'm saying maybe people shouldn't be quite so hard on EC. I really do think he means well.

Edit: Anyway, I appreciate all the help I got in this thread. Victoria, I've practically read that spreadsheet of Locus information to death.

[rtilryarms]

Dragon-L and EC.
Yes, I fully understand.

But if you tend to rub people the wrong way....are you tending to rub agents and publishers the wrong way?

Think about it. This is your only chance to get honest input. Publishers won't tell you what you are doing wrong, they just say "not at this time..." and "maybe later..."

It does rub me wrong, I admit, when someone does not say thanks and instead argues with a very well established expert.
Debate is good but there was no acknowledgement. I just see failure written all over that style.
Just my honest opinion, really.

Always has been.

[Dragon-lady]

Dragon-L and EC.
Yes, I fully understand.

But if you tend to rub people the wrong way....are you tending to rub agents and publishers the wrong way?

Think about it. This is your only chance to get honest input. Publishers won't tell you what you are doing wrong, they just say "not at this time..." and "maybe later..."

It does rub me wrong, I admit, when someone does not say thanks and instead argues with a very well established expert.
Debate is good but there was no acknowledgement. I just see failure written all over that style.
Just my honest opinion, really.

Always has been.I thought I said thanks--several times. If it isn't totally clear, let me make it clear. I very, very much appreciate all the help I received in this thread and others.

I had nothing to debate about what was said here. I was given fantastic help and advice. Again, to Victoria and the others who advised me, thank you.

Edit: I suspect that EC didn't think he needed to say thanks because he didn't ask the question. I did. And I am grateful. And for that matter, if something I said here offended you, I apologize for that too.

[arkady]

As Victoria pointed out, fantasy seems to have a particular reputation for cliquishness. Apparently it's a club that isn't easy to break into except by starting with an agency that is already in the club.

And the list of those agencies is rather small to begin with, making an already-tiny target downright minuscule. Which is why I always roll my eyes in frustration when some well-meaning soul tells me "there are hundreds and hundreds of agents out there." Just take a look at the Locus sales spreadsheets at:

http://members.optusnet.com.au/%7Emgoodin68/locus.htm

...and see how often the same few agency/agent names keep appearing over and over in the lists.