Point of View, according to your gender

[akiwiguy]

There is something that I have always wondered, and perhaps pertaining more to female readers of erotica. Is your appreciation of, I guess the degree you are turned on by, what you are reading affected at all by whether it is written from a female POV (i.e. first-person female narrator or third-person female subjective POV) or male? It is just something I've always been curious about.

[HeronW]

If it's a physical tab A into slot B back and forth, doesn't matter who's doing it/telling it. Give me emotional connections from either side--that's much more involving.

[Stacia Kane]

Done properly, they're equally hot.

[MargueriteMing]

M/m seems to be primarily a female readership, so I'd say it's not a problem.

[Maryn]

In theory, it doesn't matter who's doing the telling, so long as it's done well. Some writers can use either POV with conviction. Many can only do their own gender.

I have, however, critiqued erotica for years and years (because so many people online simply cant' show it to anyone face to face for writerly feedback), and the material written by men, regardless of POV chosen, far too frequently focuses on the physical while underplaying or ignoring the emotional connection female readers often require. Some female readers demand rose petals on the bed and frequent bubble baths, while others simply want the characters to have a romantic relationship of some type. Quite a few male authors don't comprehend that need and don't fulfill it.

There's also a marked tendency to objectify the female characters, too, as nothing more than sexual objects with perfect bodies and hair-trigger arousal--this from nice guys who most assuredly do not think of real women that way. I can only assume that's the fantasy which arouses them, so that's what they put in their work. (I know I put what arouses me in mine.)

So I don't think it's so much a matter of gender of your POV as understanding the thought processes of the gender.

Maryn, finding this discussion interesting

[joyce]

If the writing is well done, I forget who's writing a man or a woman. :)

[Stacia Kane]

Oh! I just had a thought. I try to always put the first sex scene in a book from the woman's POV, (assuming my readers are women.) I don't know why, but on thinking of it I realize most books do the same, I guess because the woman is usually the MC more than the man.

[kristie911]

Makes no difference to me...as long as it's hot! :)

[JanDarby]

Just wanted to second what Maryn said:

I don't think it's so much a matter of gender of your POV as understanding the thought processes of the gender.

There are certain fantasies that appeal to women (generally speaking, and of course there are exceptions), and an author writing for a female audience needs to understand a woman's view of that fantasy. (Or, if writing for a male audience, the author needs to understand the man's view of that fantasy.)

It's not enough to simply meet the objective criteria of something like "woman has sex with a stranger." (Sex with a stranger is generally in the lists of top ten female fantasies.) The story also has to reflect a real understanding of the emotional underpinnings of that fantasy for the gender reading the story.

I write almost exclusively for a female audience and don't pretend to understand male fantasies, but I suspect that the reasons why a given fantasy (e.g., stranger sex) appeals (or not) to a reader are slightly different, depending on gender (again, with the caveat that this is a generalization, so there are exceptions). What men find exciting about the fantasy may be different from what women find exciting about it, or perhaps the emotional need that's fulfilled by this fantasy may be different.

JD

[akiwiguy]

Firstly, thanks for the feedback everyone. It has made me ponder certain things quite deeply.

In theory, it doesn't matter who's doing the telling, so long as it's done well. Some writers can use either POV with conviction. Many can only do their own gender.

I have, however, critiqued erotica for years and years (because so many people online simply cant' show it to anyone face to face for writerly feedback), and the material written by men, regardless of POV chosen, far too frequently focuses on the physical while underplaying or ignoring the emotional connection female readers often require. Some female readers demand rose petals on the bed and frequent bubble baths, while others simply want the characters to have a romantic relationship of some type. Quite a few male authors don't comprehend that need and don't fulfill it.

There's also a marked tendency to objectify the female characters, too, as nothing more than sexual objects with perfect bodies and hair-trigger arousal--this from nice guys who most assuredly do not think of real women that way. I can only assume that's the fantasy which arouses them, so that's what they put in their work. (I know I put what arouses me in mine.)

So I don't think it's so much a matter of gender of your POV as understanding the thought processes of the gender.

Maryn, finding this discussion interesting

There is actually a certain type of erotica quite prevelant in the well known magazines which most likely have a predominantly male readership, and which I suspect is usually written by males, that leaves me cold. The erotic appeal to me is absolutely zero. The fact is, it is published and so in one sense I can't criticize it, but I couldn't be bothered writing it even to make a buck. Without giving examples, I think Maryn it may be what you are describing. It often reads to me like a list of things someone is doing with body-parts and other things.

There is of course the whole theme of deliberate objectification, and I'm going to say a bit more about that further down. To me personally it is a very compelling theme, but has to be written well. And, paradoxically, is often underscored by powerful emotions and intricate psychology within unusual relationships if that makes sense.

Just wanted to second what Maryn said:

There are certain fantasies that appeal to women (generally speaking, and of course there are exceptions), and an author writing for a female audience needs to understand a woman's view of that fantasy. (Or, if writing for a male audience, the author needs to understand the man's view of that fantasy.)

It's not enough to simply meet the objective criteria of something like "woman has sex with a stranger." (Sex with a stranger is generally in the lists of top ten female fantasies.) The story also has to reflect a real understanding of the emotional underpinnings of that fantasy for the gender reading the story.

I write almost exclusively for a female audience and don't pretend to understand male fantasies, but I suspect that the reasons why a given fantasy (e.g., stranger sex) appeals (or not) to a reader are slightly different, depending on gender (again, with the caveat that this is a generalization, so there are exceptions). What men find exciting about the fantasy may be different from what women find exciting about it, or perhaps the emotional need that's fulfilled by this fantasy may be different.

JD

I'm not sure if I attract it or something, but a gut feeling of what I see on forums, in personal discussion... feedback in general, I find it fascinating the number of women, I think a very high percent, whose fantasies hinge on some kind of objectification. In fact, I have often mentioned Story of O in various posts, and I now have quite an accumulation of RPs from females saying it is one of their favourite books. It would be fascinationg for me to read it again with one main objective, to examine it from the viewpoint of O's own emotions/motivations. Incidentally, such themes are in no way the only ones that appeal to me, but that was to me always a stand-out piece of erotica.

And something I realised with my own work, for some reason if I wrote first-person POV it would always be male, if third person subjective always female. Perhaps for a female POV I am trying to distance enough that I won't become totally unstuck by trying to convey emotions too closely that I can't possibly understand to that extent? But I don't ever recall having written first-person female, or third person subjective male.

Anyway, thanks for your feedback everyone. It is an interesting topic I think.

[veinglory]

I prefer male POV (and am, in case you missed it, female)

[The_Grand_Duchess]

M/m seems to be primarily a female readership, so I'd say it's not a problem.

I did not know this. Although I can't say that I find it surprising. It's sort of the unknown I suppose.

Hmm. Learn something new everyday. I too am finding this thread intriguing.