Melanie Mills

[jjsasmacaire]

Agent Melanie Mills asks for 350 dollars upfront fee if she likes your manuscript.
She has gotten deals with major publishers, but these deals have been 'microscopic'.
She does not advertise that she asks for a fee in Publishers Lunch, where she has a page. She does mention this on her website, but in a vague manner.
According to her, the money is for editing services and query letters. According to me, she should make it clear on both her web pages she charges such a fee. When you photocopy your chapters and send them to her, you're already out a lot of money.

[hellerharris]

Don't ever pay an agent to read something. The WGA forbids agent signators from charging any sort of reading or overhead fee.

[FictionHack]

(This message was left blank)

[eraser]

My vibes say "this is wrong."

My experience with publishers is limited, but mine suggests a change here and there and has ME do the tweaking. It sounds like she's dangling a carrot and is pressuring you to say "Please, please, YOU do it!" I suspect that even if you find a book-doctor, the agent will find something wrong with his/her credentials.

Not sure what you signed, but I'd be taking a magnifying glass to it, looking for an out-clause. I hope you get other responses though. Don't consider mine gospel. Let's see if there's a consensus.

[McInnes]

The statement that worries me is:

"When you find someone to do this
for you, please have them write me a letter on their letterhead, including
contact information and listing their recommendations in the letter."

Why does she need to know who you are getting to edit for you? and the big one: Why do they have to send her a letter on their letterhead listing the recommendations?

She's sounds like she's up to something, 'cuz realistically if she can't do it, doesn't have the time, then she will pass the project back to you and wait for you to send it back revised and go from there.

Something is just not right and it is your right to ask her why this is necessary. I don't know what your contract says with her, but the bottom line is she is working for you so don't let her walk all over you.

[bonsaipa]

Had my own experience with this one. Charged me $350. 6 months later she wanted another $1500 to edit a manuscript she said she had already read and submitted to people. But couldn't provide a single bit of evidence that she had ever submitted anything. I fired her.

If an agent asks for money up front, run away! They are supposed to make money from the publishers, not the author.

[Donagmar]

When I signed with her, she charged me $115. I received a copy of one rejection letter, and monthly updates for about two months. After that I never heard from her unless I asked. When I'd email her about progress she'd be very snotty, until she finally told me I'd be better off to take my novel to an independent publisher.

Oddly enough, she sent me a letter just a few weeks ago wanting me to contact her. I emailed her and received a letter telling me that she has a possible buyer for my novel, but that it needs some work. She'd like for me to hire someone to edit the novel. I'm not going to do this, since if anyone edits and rewrites it, I'm going to do it myself. And I'm not at all happy that she's still shopping my book around after telling me to take a hike earlier in the year. I haven't replied to this latest communication yet, but I plan to do that tonight.

I personally think she's just out for money.

[albuqnm]

This does not sound good. Now I know what to do with her invitation to send the first three chapters, etc. -- delete her e-mail message from the deep recesses of my computer!

[RealityChuck]

Rule of Thumb:
Any agent that contacts you is one to avoid.

The exception is if you have had something published by a legitimate publisher (not POD).

[giannah666]

Ok I am so glad I stumbled upon your site because I too sent in a poem for entry and was told the same bull. I just want to basically say thank you because I was just about to sign and pay for a book and a plaque. I feel bad for the ppl who weren't able to avoid this but I'm sure your site will although shutting them down would be completely better (fingers crossed). Once again thanks

[Noel]

Melanie Mills has been my agent for several years. While she initially asked for a fee to cover mailings and such, she has discontinued that practice (at least where I am concerned).:D

[Victoria]

Has she sold anything for you, Noel?

- Victoria
Writer Beware
www.sfwa.org/beware/ (http://www.sfwa.org/beware/)

[Priority189]

Melanie Mills has been my agent for over a year. She did not charge me a fee but I did have to pay her in advance to rewrite my manuscript. It really needed it and she worked with me to become a better writer. 7 months later, she sold my manuscript to a large publishing house in NYC. I happen to think she's a great agent with a very warm personality.

[DancesWithBooks]

Priority189: Would you please tell us the title of your book or your (the author's) name? It seems that, although anonymous people claim to be published via Ms. Mills, no one ever gives the name of the book.

Thank you.

[Victoria]

It's also a conflict of interest for an agent to double as a paid editor. If the agent stands to make money from the recommendation to edit, how can the writer trust that the recommendation is in his/her best interest? Many established agents do work with their authors to edit their work for submission, but they don't charge extra for it.

I too would like to hear about Priority189's book--author? Title? Publisher? Once a publishing contract has been signed, there are no issues of confidentiality involved, and no reason why this info shouldn't be shared, even if the book hasn't yet been published.

- Victoria
Writer Beware
www.sfwa.org/beware (http://www.sfwa.org/beware)

[starmason]

I'm getting a little afraid after reading this board. Melanie Mills has been my agent for several years and has two of my works. She charged me an initial fee for both with the condition that the money would be recovered upon sale of the book(s). She also recently told me a similar story to the above poster, ie., a publisher liked my book but it needed to be edited, would I get an editor and have that editor send information to her about themselves. I asked her to edit the book, which she agreed to do(to her credit, she did ask me at first to get someone else to do it). I can't really say that she made any significant changes to the book after I paid $5 a page for her efforts. Furthermore, my second work (the one she edited) has been with her now for over six months and I have heard no news, not even rejection notices. When I emailed to ask her if there was any news on the book, she said no one was really buying now as the economy was slow. With my first book, she did at least send rejection notices by email.
After reading the above posts, I'm seriously starting to doubt the legitimacy of this agency. If the poster who had Melanie Mills as an agent could list the published book, I would feel much better. Please, if anyone has any more information they can share, please post it here. I don't want to waste any more money and would like to move on with my writing career, if indeed that is a possibility. Thank you very much.

[Fuzzbuster]

I agree with Starmason. Can someone (anyone?) produce a contract? I really enjoy dealing with her, and have felt she has represented me well. Am I being screwed? I'm not interested in opinions, how about some facts???
Fuzz

[Victoria]

Writer Beware has received several reports about Ms. Mills that are essentially identical to starmason's. If anyone would like to make a report or provide more info, please get in touch with me at vstrauss@attbi.com.

- Victoria
Writer Beware
www.sfwa.org/beware (http://www.sfwa.org/beware)

[starmason]

I wanted to post again to let everyone know that I no longer have any doubts about Melanie Mills as an agent. She has supplied me with a bona fide contract that she has recently negotiated. Furthermore, she responded to my questions both promptly and professionally. Much of my fear was based on simple miscommunication which was largely my fault. I should have spoken to her first, rather than posting here, but that was my mistake. I hope this post will put to rest some of the questions that have been floating around these boards. I will not list specifics on the contract as it is not my place to do so, but I have no reason to be anything less than truthful here. If you have Melanie Mills as an agent, you are in good hands.

Good luck and keep writing.

[danceswithbooks]

Great! Now you can supply us with the name of the publisher and the name of your book -- unless those are the specifics which it is not your place to list. ;)

[wordworker]

Like several of the posters, I too was a client of Melanie
Mills. Once she had my $350 and my signed contract,
she informed me she would be "fibbing" to publishers
about my very excessive word count. I was flabber-
gasted. Why she didn't inform of this BEFORE I paid
and signed should be obvious to anyone.

My $350 was refunded to me when Ms. Mills tried the
editing fiasco on me, but instead of taking the bait, I
started making phone calls and email inquiries. Ms. Mills coughed the money up pronto once she realized I was
onto her.

It turns out that one of the editors I contacted is very
well known in literary circles and she is also an agent.
I didn't have a clue. She asked to read my manuscript.
She said if I could write that well, I could edit my manu-
script very easily. I did, and she has just signed me.
She's convinced will sell my book. We'll see, but one
thing is for certain: I have a much better chance now
than I did with Ms. Mills. If my novel DOES sell, I will
return to this board and post the title, something another
poster seems unwilling to do. (Uh, anyone smell a rat?)

Ms. Mills supposedly no longer charges a fee to authors
she signs. If that's true, I think thanks is due to people
like Victoria from Writer's Beware who work very hard
on our behalf. But the lack of a fee doesn't make a
good agent. ASK FOR A LIST OF TITLES SOLD - THEN
VERIFY THE SALE!!!

If any of you think of quitting like I did, DON'T. If you
fall prey to an unscrupulous agent, it doesn't mean your
work isn't any good, it mean you've learned a good
lesson like many others have. Don't let a bad agent
keep you from working towards your goals. If they
take away your dream, they've taken a lot more than
your money.

[capitalistwriter]

"I personally think she's just out for money."

Well, of course she's just out for money! Aren't you? I certainly am!

There's nothing wrong with being out for money. There's only something wrong when you go about it in an unethical way. She is being unethical. That's the problem. Not the fact that she's trying to make a buck.

[ShatteredCrystalIce]

Stop trusting agents. Or don't have any at all!!

[danceswithbooks]

No, most of us are NOT out for money. We want to create art, promote literature, and spread ideas. Making money is a byproduct of those activities. Yes, sometimes it is a necessary byproduct, but it should not be the main purpose.

We are not supposed to be selling used cars here; let's not act like it, nor accept the actions of people who do.

[capitalistwriter]

Writing is a business. The stuff I write has value. People pay me for it. If they don't pay, they don't get to publish it. It's that simple.

The fact that writing is also a creative release for me, and that my writing brings pleasure to the people who read it, is a very pleasant coincidence.

If you don't believe your work has value, I guess you're free to give it away.

[newzmel]

Hey, I'm new to the business. This is great. Thanks, Newz

[Georgie]

I read on another message board today that Melanie Mills was recently killed in an auto accident in Europe. Has anyone else heard this?

[jmfishman]

Yes, I heard the same. If you get any information, please let me know. And what was the other message board? Thanks

[Rscribe]

I can also confirm the death of Melanie Mills. Sort of puts to rest the debate on her merits as a literary agent, doesn't it?

[Georgie]

JM Fishman:

I saw a post about Melanie Mills' death at the Speculations SF website at: www.rumormill.org/index.p...l_topics=0 (http://www.rumormill.org/index.php?t=258&show_all_topics=0)

I think it was posted there by Dave Kuzminski, who runs the Preditors & Editors website.

Jeez, regardless of whatever else...I really am so sorry to hear such tragic news about her!

[jmfishman]

Does anyone know the title of the book she wrote or her penname? Anyone have a decent agent to recommend to take on her clients? And, who is Lisa? Thanks

[DancesWithBooks]

Rscribe: How can you confirm? Can you point to an online news source (because, right now, I think rumormill is using this board as confirmation, and this board is using rumormill).

Thanks!!

[Rscribe]

I was advised of Ms. Mills death in a message from her assistant. I was on her client list & found her to be energetic, helpful, & enthusiastic. I was kept up to date on submissions, etc. I realize others have had totally different experiences, but mine was quite positive. I'll miss her. BTW, she no longer charged an up-front fee for 'office expenses.'

[Dave Kuzminski]

I received the notice from two sources. One, her assistant posted the news on one of the P&E boards. Her church emailed me with the second confirmation.

Dave Kuzminski, Editor
Preditors & Editors (tm)

[betjam]

I tried to locate Melanies obit. I couldn't find it online. I hope this isn't a fraud. Could she have felt some heat? The phone is disconnected. I hate thinking this if she has passed away. However, who really knows much about her. She could support herself on all the fees she was bringing in. Her daughter was Lisa. Why didn't she continue the business? should someone investigate this agency?

[jmfishman]

I tried to find obit, too, with no success. What's going on here? Anyone have any info?

[Victoria]

I'm a bit skeptical of the death report. It's my impression, based on the info I've been receiving over the past 6 months or so, that Ms. Mills' agency was in trouble. If you think about it, you can see how reporting your own death might be easier than formally closing your business: no upset/angry authors to deal with, no humiliating explanations to provide. I do know of questionable agents who've used a claim of death to avoid clients and obligations.

I don't mean to sound cruel or hardhearted. If the report is true I'm very sorry for this tragic event, and my sympathies go out to Ms. Mills' family.

- Victoria
Writer Beware
www.sfwa.org/beware (http://www.sfwa.org/beware)

[Rscribe]

Victoria, I know you weren't a client of Melanie Mills, but I wonder how many of the postings have come from writers who were. I hate to see a reputation being bashed unless it's justified. I'll reserve judgement until someone can settle the debate one way or the other.

[angelwriter4u]

At first when I started to read this, I was all set and ready to be angry at this woman Melanie Mills. What we have here is half the ppl say she's bad other half say she's good. Then when we hear reports that she has been killed instead of expressing sympathy, we think she's faking it because an obit can't be found online. Did anyone ever stop to think that her assistant problem warned her family of the claims of her scamming. Now if she were my family, I wouldn't want to have it publized that she was killed!! Simply because they are dealing with the loss of her, and they have to contend with ppl that still question her ethics. Are we that mistrusting, and judgemental that we would still hold a person to ridiculous standards even after her death. Think if this was your family member how would you feel?? I know for me I'm going to be sure to say a prayer for her family today!

[DancesWithBooks]

What a strange world we live in when we'd rather think of someone as dead than as cheating us, and we chastise those who won't accept her death guilelessly.

I'd rather give her the benefit of the doubt; perhaps she's making a clean break from her past and has moved on to an occupation more suited to her skills.

In either case, maybe those published authors who had confidentiality issues can now come forward and tell us which books she published for them, and thus clear her name.

[starmason]

In response to betjam above, I was told that Lisa Mills and Melanie Mills were the same person. Melanie, told me this. She said she changed her name. This whole situation just seems to get more and more strange. I think it is very unfortunate that a death report has turned into another question about fraud, but given what we know from this board, there are still a lot of question marks. Melanie represented two of my books, neither published. As far as I know, my second book was only ever sent to one publisher in the course of a year. With my first book, she did submit it, but it was bundled with other books--a practice which I came to find out is considered unprofessional. She also edited my second book (at my insistence). She did show me a book that she had agented and gotten published, but asked me not to tell anyone who it was for the author's privacy. Part of me hopes that the death report really is false and that Melanie is starting over, perhaps with lessons learned for the better. At this point, I would just like some closure on what has to be a painful subject for many of us.

[sassenach]

"She did show me a book that she had agented and gotten published, but asked me not to tell anyone who it was for the author's privacy."

WTF?

[Victoria]

I understood that Lisa was Melanie's daughter. If it's true Lisa was an alternate name for Melanie, this is getting closer and closer to some of the wilder cases of questionable agent weirdness.

I too find the "for the author's privacy" thing bizarre. How can an agent's claim to have sold a book impinge on an author's privacy? The book is out there, or going to be, with the author's name on it--there's no privacy in that. For a lot of reasons, I'd really like to know the author and the title of the book--please feel free to e-mail me privately if you prefer--victoria@victoriastrauss.com.

- Victoria
Writer Beware
www.sfwa.org/beware (http://www.sfwa.org/beware)

[Jim Breuer]

This stuff really reeks of that whole "Martha Ivery-Kelly O'Donnell" agent silliness that happened a short time ago, with an agency called, "Prestige" or something similar.

These days, it seems that some of these "pseudo" literay agents themselves -- are providing the best subject matter for new story ideas, I think.

Sheesh!

[writerruth]

An author who wans no puiblicity for her book? Yeah, that's real.
As real as an agent that won't list it in her credentials. uh-huh

[WritersWeekly]

For those of you who don't know about the topic listed two posts up, you can read that story here. Martha Ivery still holds the distinct title of being the most entertaining Warnings investigation we've ever done at WritersWeekly. See:

www.writersweekly.com/war...stige.html (http://www.writersweekly.com/warnings/presstige.html)

[Gerard Jones]

Somebody just told me Melanie Mills was dead; if that's true all this wrangling would be a trifle moot, but I don't know whether it's true or not so I'm leaving her on my little list. G.

everyonewhosanyone.com (http://everyonewhosanyone.com)

[betjam]

Melanie told me that Lisa was her daughter???
If she has passed. I'm sorry for her and her family. If she was a scam artist I'm sorry for all those who she took for their money. Many writers are struggling to be published. The time and money wasted if she wasn't for real is sad. Writers have hopes and dreams for their work
and it shouldn't be taken advantage of. Some may have given up. It's not only cruel, it's criminal.
I checked newspapers in her area nothing. I think sites like this help keep us aware.

[danceswithbooks]

I've checked the online newspapers, too. There's nothing there. Stranger and stranger. Maybe she also signed confidentiality agreements with the news media.....

[danceswithbooks]

Her website is gone. But still nothing in any newspapers that I can find.

I guess the safest thing to do is to keep our eyes open for someone new who uses that same m.o.

[brightm]

My partner and I had been trying to contact Melanie concerning our manuscript and we just found out that she died. We're having the same problems trying to locate anybody who can answer our questions. We need to know what we're suppose to do about our manuscripts that were in her possession. I feel terrible about the this and know her family must be grieving, but surely there is someone who is taking care of the details with her business. We learned of her death by a small notice on the net written by a Kat Baker who says she was Melanie's assistant, however no contact information was left. Can anyone help?

[brightm]

My partner and I have been trying for a few weeks to contact Melanie and it was only today that we learned of her death. No one contacted us, it was discovered by an obscure notice on the web written by a Kat Baker who says she was Melanie's assistant and she left no contact info. We can't locate anyone to find out what we are suppose to do about out manuscripts that were in her possession. Can anyone help us with this. I understand that her family is grieving, however it seems to me someone would be dealing with the details of her business.

[Victoria]

I've been trying to find out more, but without success so far. All I've learned for sure is that the e-mail address is defunct, the phone is turned off, and all the websites are gone (at one point Ms. Mills had four: one for the literary agency, one for her editing business, one for a book publicity/promotion business, plus a listing at Publishers Marketplace). I'm also curious as to whether people signed up for the conference Ms. Mills was advertising, and if so, whether they received their money back.

If I do discover something definite, I'll post it here.

- Victoria
Writer Beware
www.sfwa.org/beware (http://www.sfwa.org/beware)

[brightm]

I didn't expect a response so quickly. Thanks for that. My partner and I have decided that as of now our best bet is to send a registered letter to her physical address and hope that someone will reply. I'll post any new information I may learn as soon as I get it.

Anything will be much appreciated....

[kcarpenter]

In short, agent Melanie Mills has scammed me. I wish I had read this message board before sending her money for a conference that she canceled. I wouldn't be out of the money at this point.

I saw Melanie's ad (in Shaw Guides) for a conference in May in North Myrtle Beach. I live in North Carolina and thought it would be an ideal conference that I could drive to. I worked on my manuscript diligently to finish by May, sent my pre-registration money, and several weeks later I received an e-mail message saying that she had to cancel the conference and reschedule it for June 24. I wrote to her and told her I couldn't attend in June, could I please get a refund? She sent me an e-mail saying she would send the money that week, but she didn't. She sounded quite professional. Her website looks respectable and there were no red flags indicating that she was scamming writers (I guess that's how the pros con people). After several e-mails and attempted calls (her phone has been disconnected), she still hasn't returned my money. I called the Shaw Guides editor who was very upset about this episode.
Has anyone else lost money to her this way? Post a message and maybe we can get together and stop her.

[kcarpenter]

Sorry, I didn't read the responses on pages 2 & 3. However, I have to add that the editor of Shaw Guides said she got a notice from Melanie in mid-June that Melanie was allegedly moving overseas. Melanie canceled her postings about conferences in June and then tried to post a conference using a different name, according to the editor. Here is a copy of the last e-mail she sent to me, dated June 3. I had informed her that I couldn't reach her by phone. Here's her "reason:"
"Hi K...,
Yes, I had my office moved while I was in Germany.
I'll issue you a refund at the end of the week. Give me some time to look
at your work--I'm really not taking on any new authors currently.
Good luck to you and your family with all that is going on.
Melanie Mills"

If anyone is interested, Melanie was also asking for social security numbers and birthdates on her conference "registration forms." Sounds more than fishy to me. An FBI friend said that it sounds like "fraud by wire." I'm going to look into it further with the local NC agency.

[cdcasserly]

I have had similar responses as many of the corresponded on this board since mid-May, about a year after I signed with Melanie, so I won't take up space reiterating many of the issues discussed. At first I was shocked and saddened by her death, but now I don't know what to feel. Just last week, I was visiting friends in North Myrtle Beach and decided to do a litttle investigating on Melanie. She led me to believe that she lived in and worked from a high rise condo, at least until she "moved to a beach house in May." Not by a long shot. 4009 N. Ocean Blvd is a small, rather unkempt one story house on the other side of Ocean Blvd, not beachfront. When I knocked on the door, a child answered the door. When I asked about someone named Melanie Mills living there, she got her uncle. He said that he was just watching the kids for his sister and had never heard of anyone by that name. Melanie told me that she was slender with long blond hair and the people living here are black. Maybe Kat Baker was the mother of the kids; I forgot to ask. Next door was a two story, again gray, four unit place that seemed to also be 4009. We didn't knock on any doors as it didn't look like anyone was there and it, too, was rather worn. Next we dropped by the neighborhood post office. Yes, there was a box 3929(with mail), and the ladies at the counter said that Melanie did pick up her mail there and that they knew she had gone to Europe a "week or so" before. When I said that I had heard that she had been killed about three weeks ago, they said that it might have been that long since they had seen her. What was strange was, that when I said that she had been killed, they showed absolutely no emotion: neither shock as if they were hearing the news for the first time or sadness that, yes, they had heard the news. Nothing. They just stared at me. We were going to pull a stake-out and see if anyone came for the mail, but my friend had been kind enough to drag me around all morning. We did make one more stop at the weekly North Myrtle Beach newspaper. They had never heard of Melanie Mills, for an obit or for any news article.

I just perused a copy of the registration form for the conference and fear that I gave my SS# as requested. Now I feel sick about giving her that info. Maybe I should call my credit card company and bank???

Oh, in April she had written me w/news that she had sent my one mss to St. Martin's as well as other places. As she gave me the editor's name, I emailed her after the news of her (Melanie's death) and she had nicely replied that she didn't handle my genre and gave me two other editors' names. I wrote one and she responded that she had neither heard of Melanie Mills or my mss and wished me luck finding a new agent. Hmm.

I have written Kat Baker numerous times and have received no reply. I,too, wonder how and when I will get my manuscripts (she had 3), discs, etc. returned. If anyone who is concerned by her actions wants to correspond more privately, reply to this board and we can exchange email addresses.

[Victoria]

I'm interested in hearing from anyone who has unresolved issues with the M.W. Mills Literary Agency, or who paid for the conference and wasn't reimbursed. The quickest way to reach me is my personal e-mail: victoria@victoriastrauss.com, though if you prefer you can write to me at Writer Beware: beware@sfwa.org.
Thanks.

- Victoria
Writer Beware
www.sfwa.org/beware/ (http://www.sfwa.org/beware/)

[betjam]

I believe melanie is alive and that we have all been scamed. I think the FBI should look into this? Anyone know how to do this?

[FictionHack]

Way back on page 1, I posted my experience (since edited . . . ). Apparently Melanie observes these boards, because shortly after I posted my questions, I received an E-mail from her informing me she was cancelling my contract.

In retrospect maybe this isn't such a bad thing. Hopefully all of you with outstanding concerns get them addressed.

And, just to second the comments from the person who visited Myrtle Beach, a quick Google check shows no obituary for her . . . considering that Google parses most all newspapers that are online and comes up with obituaries for other folks, I'd consider this highly suspicious.

[kcarpenter]

I plan to contact the local FBI agency tomorrow afternoon. I doubt if the amount of money she scammed from me will be enough to interest them, but if we team up, perhaps they will look into it. If anyone wants to contact me, I'll be glad to organize this investigation. You can contact me at: info@queenofmeanstreet.com. (The response you get from me will be from a different e-mail address, but I'd rather not post that on this message board.) Reference your e-mail as Melanie Mills and I'll let each person know what I find out.

[kcarpenter]

I did some more research on Melanie's alleged death. The rumor started from a posting to "Preditors and Editors," an online publication. The following is a direct quote from P&E.

"6/23/03: From a posting to our bulletin board:

Last week, during her trip to Europe due to a death in the family, Melanie
Mills died in a fatal car accident.

Therefore, all submissions to publishers have been retracted, all events
cancelled, and all existing publishing contracts have been reverted over to
the individual authors. Any contracts between an author, or authors,
revert immediately back to said authors in order that they may find
representation elsewhere.

I'm very sorry. This has been, and still is, a very emotional time for her
entire family and friends.
Good luck to all of you,
Kat Baker
Assistant to Melanie Mills"

How many people want to bet that "Kat Baker" and Melanie Mills are the same person?

[danceswithbooks]

If you are serious, the FBI has an online Internet Fraud Complaint Center. It might be a good place to start.

www1.ifccfbi.gov/ (http://www1.ifccfbi.gov/)

[betjam]

Consider it done I filed today at 2:45. Thanks for the information.

[DancesWithBooks]

Did you really? Or are you really Melanie herself trying to throw us off the scent? :lol

What a web she weaved....

[brightm]

Needless to say my partner and I are becoming more and more concerned as Melanie and or her executor still retains three manuscripts as well as CD copies of our novels. Melanie was the first agent to respond positively to us and at the time our research on her didn't not open any doubts as to her honesty and integrity. she gave us lots of advice, which even now under these circumstances sound plausible.

The question I have now, for who ever may be able to answer, is this. She told us that she would handle the copyright. We were given other suggestions from other sources one of which is when we mailed her the manuscript to make sure we mailed a CD copy back to ourselves and to not open that as the postal date would be on it. ( the postal server even helped by putting their sticker on the seal of the box. ) The first time we did this and I still have that copy unopened. With the other two we noticed that everytime we wrote to disk or CD on out computers the date and time were there. We thought to try and protect ourselves by making sure we made an extra copy of each manuscript and then not opening it to read or work on it so that the final date would remain the same. Can anyone confirm or disprove that this is or is not going to help us if the need arises.

I'm not a fool to think that if she is taking our work to try and publish that we WILL discover it. Rewriting and renaming as well as different author's name may be enough that we never run across our stories, but on the off chance I'd like to know if the steps we took would aid us legally.. anyone who can offer opinions and advice on this would be great....thanks


brightm

[caethes]

The postal thing is a much better protection for you than the CD backup date. The date on the CD can be set to anything simply by changing your computer's clock before you write the file to the CD.

[brightm]

thanks for your response. We've done the one by postal and we'll just have to hope for the best with the other two.

brightm

[brightm]

cdcasserly, you said you have written Kat Baker numerous times. my partner and I had never heard of her until we read the notice of melanie's death. can you tell me where you are writing her or any info about her? I'd like to try as well...


thanks,
brightm

[brightm]

if anyone can offer suggestions on how to protect our manuscripts before sending to a new agent, that would be appreciated as well. also what are the best locations to research any new agent we may want to sign with.

thanks again,
brightm

[Georgie]

Bright:

The P & E website at: www.anotherealm.com/prede...bagent.htm (http://www.anotherealm.com/prededitors/pubagent.htm)
is always a good place to start when researching a new agent. As I understand, their data is compiled based on actual feedback from writers' experiences with agents -- which in most cases have earned some a "not recommended" rating. (By the way, this was once the case with Melanie Mills/Lisa Mills/Kat Baker/ Sybil, etc., etc., etc....

Also --

1. Writers Net Literary Agents' forum at:
www.writers.net/forum/10/42410A2 (http://www.writers.net/forum/10/42410A2)

2. Speculations Rumor Mill at:
www.rumormill.org (http://www.rumormill.org)

And in addition to all the above, a thorough "Google" search of the agent or agency's name is also a good bet.

Good luck.

[georgie]

BrightM:

The P & E website at: www.anotherealm.com/prede...bagent.htm (http://www.anotherealm.com/prededitors/pubagent.htm)
is always a good place to start when researching a new agent. As I understand, their data is compiled based on actual feedback from writers' experiences with agents -- which in most cases have earned some a "not recommended" rating. (By the way, this was once the case with Melanie Mills/Lisa Mills/Kat Baker/ Sybil, etc., etc., etc....

Also --

1. Writers Net Literary Agents' forum at:
www.writers.net/forum/10/42410A2 (http://www.writers.net/forum/10/42410A2)

2. Speculations Rumor Mill at:
www.rumormill.org (http://www.rumormill.org)

And in addition to all the above, a thorough "Google" search of the agent or agency's name is also a good bet.

Good luck.

[brightm]

thanks georgie. the information is sure to go a long way for us. anyone who is interested in persuing this situation might do well to contact kcarpenter. she's given an address to contact her on this message board. her reply is on page three of this section...


brightm

[Victoria]

Folks, don't worry about theft. New writers seem to be extremely fearful of this, but theft of unpublished work is so rare as to be functionally nonexistent. It's not until you've published, and your work is exposed to a wide audience, that you need to be concerned. In six years of agent- and publisher-tracking, I haven't received one complaint of theft.

There are many reasons why an agent won't steal your ms. Good agents wouldn't risk their reputations this way--and in any case, it's a whole lot easier just to work with you than to steal your book and pretend it belongs to someone else. Bad agents can't sell mss. anyway, so stealing one wouldn't do them much good. Dishonest agents aren't interested in selling books to publishers, but in getting fees from writers--so they don't really care about your ms. at all.

You're protected by copyright law from the moment you fix your work in final form--i.e., the moment you first write the words on paper or a computer screen. You can, if you wish, take the additional step of registering your copyright--this gives you the right to sue in court if your work is infringed (though remember, infringement really isn't a concern for unpubbed work), but provides NO ADDITIONAL COPYRIGHT PROTECTION. For book-length work, therefore, it really isn't necessary to register copyright prior to publication.

The mail-it-to-yourself-and-retain-the-envelope-unopened thing (also known as poor man's copyright) is useless. It's neither a legal substitute for copyright registration (if you want to sue for infringement, you HAVE to register) nor does it provide evidence that's likely to stand up in court (you could have mailed the envelope to yourself empty, and filled and sealed it later). Ditto for time stamps and registry services and notary stamps.

If you'd like to know whether there are complaints against an agent (or a publisher), you can e-mail Writer Beware, a publishing industry watchdog group of which I'm a staff member. We're currently tracking more than 300 agents and 150 publishers, and we'll be glad to let you know what's in our files. Contact us at beware@sfwa.org.

- Victoria
Writer Beware
www.sfwa.org/beware/ (http://www.sfwa.org/beware/)

[beyjam]

Why isn't this information on the web site you listed Victoria or did I miss it. I think we need to get this information out, don't you? I did report it. Melanie wasted about 2 1/2 years of my life after she took me on as a writer.

[betjam]

I really did! I'm not Melanie. I resent the time she wasted for me. I believed in her. I think there was a group of people. Because when I talked to her sometimes I thought her voice was different. I didn't think about it much then. However, now I guess it registered in my mind.

[kcarpenter]

I have spent a lot of time today (probably more than I should) researching this situation. I have heard from several people and the scams have shocked me that Melanie has initiaited. I am not posting too much more on this message board because I believe that I heard from Melanie today (with a new alias, of course), and I believe that she is reading these messages (we're onto you, Mel). Also, someone (gee, I wonder who) has blocked my e-mail from a couple of search engines. If you send a message to me and don't hear back, keep trying (info@queenofmeanstreet.com).

[cdcasserly]

So much to respond to. I first heard of Kat Baker in May when I emailed Melanie about some agent/client(I'm/was a client) questions and got an email back from Kat(res02ijr@verizon.net) that Melanie was in Europe due to a family illness and business. I heard from her again in June when the relative died (and Melanie was once again in Europe) and then she sent the announcement about Melanie's "death' on June 23rd. She has ignored any emails since.

I have also put a fraud/identity theft alert out with the three major credit check companies on my account and have alerted the SSA, banks and credit card companies. I'll be sent an email once a week on my acoounts. I just wish that I had spent the time doing more investigating when I was in Myrtle Beach. Should have done a stake out at the post office... oh well. I did contact a friend who used to be a director w/ a major federal agency and he's checking into this situation for me with his contacts.
I, too, am very upset as she had three mss of mine for a year. At my age, I'll be Grandma Moses-like if I don't get a legitimate agent soon. Am working on that and will use Victoria's knowledge and expertise when the time arrives.

I also talked with her on the phone numerous times in this last year and she was always upbeat, though very private about herself and her writing. I do have emailed rejection slips from 2 major houses where she purportedly sent my one mss, and unless she has letterheads from these places, they must be legit. Nothing since January, though.

I'll keep reading here for anything new.

[historybuff]

So, I'm sitting here, reading these entries and realizing that I was cheated by Melanie Mills. I must confess that I did my research up front and took the chance with her regardless of the way my gut felt over the chances of this result coming about. And to be honest further, the money I gave her, didn't matter then and doesn't matter now. Yes, she a ms of mine, but it doesn't scare me, our family lawyer has a copy too, dated before she ever got it. Momma didn't raise a complete idiot.

But none of that is being cheated, I did that to myself, right? The being cheated part is having forged a relationship of trust with someone, actually beginning to like her, and finding now that instead of bowing out gracefully or being honest, she had to leave me still wondering all the things I wondered before she sent me a contract.

But, I'll pull out the query letters, polish up the synopsis and start all over, because I still believe in the work I've done. God, I hate the thought of beginning again.

Melanie, if you are out there reading all this, I hope you are well. I wouldn't wish you ill. But seriously, girl-dear, shame on you for preying on the hopes of people. Would you take food from a hungry person, too? Shame on you, and shame on me for ever trusting anybody. I'll never, ever trust anyone again. That is your legacy.

[brightm]

historybuff don't let this one woman sour you on all of us. I so know how you feel as does a number of others I've been in contact with. The money lost doesn't burn me up either. I'm more upset I suppose at thinking that for the last two years an unbiased person was interested in my work and that finally steps were happening for success. I hate more than anything to have to start over as well and beat back the doubts that keep trying to take over. Right at the moment I'm telling myself first "I've learned a big lesson" (gotta cringe at that one..lol) but that I now have three free manuscripts I can try and put out there while working on the one i've got going now. Victoria's comment helped to ease my mind about the copyright and how these frauds aren't so interested in in the mss, but in the money. emails have been saved, dates are down so if legal action can actually be taken I at least have something to add to all the others even if it may not stand alone. hang in there and lots of luck...


brightm

[historybuff]

Thanks much. Actually, I'm pretty okay with myself and my writing. Looked over the ms for the first time in awhile last night and the beginnings of it's sequel. Not bad, if I say so. I'm just really discouraged that there are more of the Melanie's running around, whether they be agents or car salespeople (is that a word?). I grew up in the sixties listening to John Lennon and I'd hoped by now we might be past this sort of b/s. Such a dreamy-eyed hopester, I've been. Carry on, soldier.

[PiscesChild]

If you are interested in adding your name and experience to the Melanie Mills file, I am planning through my attorney to approach the FBI since she has committed multiple scams (real estate, time shares, writer's conferences) in multiple states.

please email charles@newtopiamagazine.net

My credentials: www.pisceschildmedia.net

Yours,

Charles Shaw
Chicago

p.s. - Melanie/Lisa/Kat...if you are reading this...you;re days are numbered, babe. Be afraid. Be very afraid.

[betjam]

Pisces
I emailed you I hope you are for real its scarey right now. I don't trust her. She did that too the trust thing.

[PiscesChild]

If I had to guess, and I'd say my guessing is pretty educated, I'd now say she faked her death.

I got a call from a woman in North Carolina yesterday who told me about multiple scams in multiple states.

Victoria, although we appreciate your efforts, you weren't robbed by her so you really are in no place to make demands on those of us who have (like asking me not to reveal that Mills/Baker was a con-artists pulling multiple scams).

My attorney and I (Hoilland & Kight in Chicago) will be looking into an FBI case once I talk with a number of Detective in multiple states that are already investigating her.

BTW my real lit agents, McIntosh & Otis, have never heard of Melanie Mills or Lisa Mills. Neither, it appears, has anyone else but us.

Wake up folks. Time to take action. File your reports. If enough people in enough states do it, the FBI will be forced by law to get involved.

[Ruthwriterruthcom]

My sympathies to anyone who may have been ripped off. I'd like to offer a couple important lessons suggested by the messages about this situation. (1) Before sending money or manuscripts to any agent, check with the Association of Authors' Representatives (AAR -- www.aar-online.org/) (http://www.aar-online.org/)) to see if they belong. It probaby would help to ask lists like this one, along with any local or national writers' organization to which you might belong, if anyone has heard of and worked with the agent, too. (2) Never give your Social Security number to anyone! There's no reason anyone should need your SSN as part of either conference registration or initial interaction with an agent. The only purpose of asking for it is likely to be fraudulent misuse, including identity theft. Same goes for bank-account numbers and any other identity info. There are very, very few times when it is necessary to ask for such info.
Ruth E. Thaler-Carter
Rochester, NY

[RochesterRuth]

My sympathies to anyone who may have been ripped off. I'd like to offer a couple important lessons suggested by the messages about this situation. (1) Before sending money or manuscripts to any agent, check with the Association of Authors' Representatives (AAR -- www.aar-online.org/) (http://www.aar-online.org/)) to see if they belong. It probaby would help to ask lists like this one, along with any local or national writers' organization to which you might belong, if anyone has heard of and worked with the agent, too. (2) Never give your Social Security number to anyone! There's no reason anyone should need your SSN as part of either conference registration or initial interaction with an agent. The only purpose of asking for it is likely to be fraudulent misuse, including identity theft. Same goes for bank-account numbers and any other identity info. There are very, very few times when it is necessary to ask for such info.
Ruth E. Thaler-Carter
Rochester, NY

[capitalistwriter]

I would modify your "lessons" slightly, Ruth.

First off, there's no need to check with anyone before sending money to an agent. Any agent who asks you to send money to him or her is a con man. Period. No legitimate agent will ask you to send money. They send the money to you, after taking their cut. So, if an agent asks you to send money, don't bother checking anything, just RUN!

Secondly, you are right about being careful with your Social Security Number, but also be aware that when you sell something you WILL need to provide it. If they ask you for it BEFORE they are ready to send you a check, that's a red flag. If they tell you that they are going to send you a check but they DON'T ask you for it, that is also a red flag. Legitimate publishers will need to have your SSN before they pay you, though.

[Victoria]

>>Victoria, although we appreciate your efforts, you weren't robbed by her so you really are in no place to make demands on those of us who have (like asking me not to reveal that Mills/Baker was a con-artists pulling multiple scams)<<

Whatever. I've been tracking agent scams for more than five years, and am participating in a number of active investigations, which gives me a bit of insight into protocol, not to mention a sense of the bigger picture...but what do I know?

- Victoria
Writer Beware
www.sfwa.org/beware (http://www.sfwa.org/beware)

[Mind Blowing]

Victoria, I agree when you said agents and publishers aren't waiting to steal from unpublished writers. But in the magazine and article world it is a different story. Each week in Writer's Weekly there is a complaint about some crooked editor who rejected a person's article idea and gave it to someone else. I didn't know that happened so often, but there has been an alarming flood of this theft lately and the freelance writers are steaming. One woman said that she provided clips and contacts pertaining to an article. The editor asked for this, saying she wanted to follow up on something. The editor ended up turning the work in for herself and there was nothing the writer could do about it. I understand how some unpublished writers are worried because I have to think twice these days sending work out and I AM published. The world is full of snakes and it's only getting worse. Later days.

[Gerard Jones]

What an illuminating bunch of comments, but the bottom line for me is that I'm taking MM off my little list. Here's an e-mail I'm in the process of sending to 2,000 of the top literary agents, editors and publishers in the US and the UK:

Wow. Who would have thought a whole year could have gone by so fast! It's already time for a Second Edition of Everyone Who's Anyone in Adult Trade Publishing. The update process is simple. Type your name in the "SEARCH" box at:

everyonewhosanyone.com (http://everyonewhosanyone.com)

Go to the page you're on, do Ctrl+F, find yourself, correct any inaccuracies, make additions or amendments, list your interests, policies, likes and dislikes, etc.—anything you want to relay to the thousands of people who look at this directory every day—then forward your comments to me via a response to this e-mail and I'll take it from there. Thanks.

The fully revised Second Edition of EWA will include at least 2,000 of the top literary agents, editors and publishers in the US, UK and Canada for whom I could find e-mail addresses and/or websites. I've listed them in order of their relative size and significance. It's the most complete, candid, useful, up-to-date directory of executives and companies in the publishing industry available anywhere, as far as I can tell.

During the past year I've sold one book, GINNY GOOD, which is coming out in the Spring of 2004 from Monkfish Book Publishing Company. It's gonna be one of the most unique, substantial, enduring and successful books published in the 21st Century—if you think I'm exaggerating, get a copy from the publisher, read it and see for yourself. But don't despair, I also have a total of four more books, including this directory, which are equally compelling and timeless, although quite different in tone, style and content. If you want to talk to me about buying any or all of them, let me know.

Lastly, you're welcome to include a link to this free directory on your website--or use it yourself, for that matter. Tens of thousands of writers and even a few of the more enlightened agents, editors and publishers have found it to be an indispensable resource. Thanks again.

Gerard Jones

[sassenach]

being stolen, frankly. Writer's Weekly seems to cater to that subset with some of their letters.

Ideas are a dime a dozen, but if you think you have a unique one, keep copies of correspondence between you and editors to prevent their theft.

*****
Gerald...your "guide" got quite a lot of publicity last year on various listservs I'm on. So you're the guy who insults editors and agents. It's performance art, right? Like the "Letters from a Nut" books?:eek :eek

[Mind Blowing]

Stealing ideas is one thing. But stealing article clips and people's personal contacts and presenting them as your own is not the same thing. It's just like a designer who has fallen hard on their luck and stealing the latest designs from a new artist, it's still dishonest bottom line.

Pro writers get ripped off just as much as amateurs. The courts are full of lawsuits catering to this. As for the Writers Weekly newsletter, I was reading them before I got published and still am, and will continue to. I may not agree with everything the newsletter puts public but I know they help a lot of writers, pro or amateur. I'm a published author and yeah we do have more authority with our work. When someone steals our work we do have the option of being able to prove it's stolen right off the bat. Someone steals my work, my publisher drags their a** to court in no time. New writers don't always have the luxury of proving something was stolen because it brings up he-say she-say disputes. And without the work being published in a form, there's really no proof. Bottom line is an adult knows if what they are doing is wrong when it comes to how far they go with taking someone else's work. Being warned and being smart is something we all have to do. I don't think being cautious is a fault, only an idiot wouldn't be. Without newsletters and organizations like Writer's Weekly, writers would be left out in the cold when it came to legal matters. Lawyers don't grow on trees and neither does money. So who else can a struggling writer with no money turn to? Nothing wrong with finding a thief and letting the world know. Later Days!

[sassenach]

MIND BLOWING said:
And without the work being published in a form, there's really no proof. Bottom line is an adult knows if what they are doing is wrong when it comes to how far they go with taking someone else's work. Being warned and being smart is something we all have to do. I don't think being cautious is a fault, only an idiot wouldn't be.

/////I don't understand your first sentence ["being published in a form.]

I've been a freelancer and a staff editor for years, and have never encountered this problem. Are you saying people who try to represent other people's clips as their own??

[Victoria]

I have to say I agree with sassenach--in more than five years of scam tracking I've yet to receive a credible complaint of theft (and I hear from short fiction writers and freelancers as well as novelists). Theft seems to be a huge fear among writers, especially writers trying to become established, but actual theft, especially of unpubbed work, really does seem to be extremely rare.

Rights grabs--as in magazines selling electronic rights without compensating the author--and stiffing writers for payment are another story.

- Victoria
Writer Beware
www.sfwa.org/beware/ (http://www.sfwa.org/beware/)

[betjam]

Sassehach from an amateurs it sounds like you want to make us feel silly. Only we amateurs would worry.
Victoria left out amateurs however, why is stiffing writers for payment of their works not the same as stealing "articile clips".
Come on we all know it could be possible for someone as unscupled as Melanie appears to be to take books to say Germany and sell them. Who would know? Oh by the way if there is a grammer error here I am dyslexic. So excuse me and both of you are welcome to correct my grammer in your head. You both seem too smart (as children say) to "act big"
It would be nice if someone with the skill or know how could find out for sure what really happened to Melanie? She hurt a lot of people.

[brightm]

Don't you worry, Betjam. No one is forgetting what needs to be done about Melanie. Steps have been taken..

[Mind Blowing]

As far as people STEALING clips and people's contacts and presenting them as their own, yes that is exactly what I meant. And it is wrong plain and simple. I don't care who the article writer is, pro or not. Also just because a case seems rare, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Does it? I mean just because I haven't heard of a new disease, doesn't mean it's not real...get my point?Unfortunately some unpublished writers aren't as confident and tend to stay quiet when wrong things happen to them, so things get hidden. You can work in the writing field for 100 years and there will still be things out there you haven't come face to face with. Once again, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.


Thanks for the compliments betjam. I always try to be caring, helpful and considerate of other's feelings. Hell we are all writers. It doesn't matter what level someone is, wrong is wrong and that's all I got to say on the matter. Anyway if people continue to do wrong by others, it comes back to bite them in the a**. What goes around always comes around and there's nothing
" amateur " about that. Does the New York Times situation ring a bell? Later days.

[sassenach]

...I assume you're referring to Jayson Blair...isn't really germane.

That was plagiarism--and obviously discovered.

I'm not trying to put amateurs down. It's simply that I hear this claim of theft repeatedly--but with minial evidence.

[betjam]

To appropriate and pass off as one's own (the writings, ideas, etc., of another). Funk & Wagnalls Standard Desk Dictionary vol. 2 n-z.
Sorry sassenach.
She just can't help it!
It's kind of cute.
It passes the time to play like this. Helps me not think about writing 2-1/2 manuscripts, that took 20 years due in part to my dyslexia, and then being duped by an agent who gets away with it. She wasted three years of my efforts to be published. I now have to start all over.
The thing that gets me is I feel the ms are really good. I read everything I ever got my hands on and I feel I know whats interesting. My college professor thinks it's wonderful and said I was a genius. Wish she was my agent, right. I will get my feet under me and go again.

[bejam]

I'm sorry sassenach and victoria if I offended you. I work with teenagers and I always try to remember it is a gift to be allowed to assist them (for me a gift from God). I take their worries serious. I try never to act superior. If I have a bad day and "act big" I say I am sorry. I don't let the fact that I help them allow me to think I smarter or better then them. They teach me as well. I don't correct their speech or ideas when they are upset. Nor do I treat the thought as foolish. I know it can turn around and bit me if I do. You both have wonderful advice. Mind blowing and others were upset they don't know what to do. They are trying. They don't need to be called amatures or talked to like they are stupid. I knew what they meant and I'm an amature. Maybe they don't know the correct jargon but it was clear enough. However, I'm protective and I'm sorry if I upset you. I wouldn't want your good advice to stop because of something I said. So the forum floor goes back to both of you and I'm off this site. Best everyone

[sfsassenach]

I'm not putting amateurs down..we all have to start somewhere. However, if you want to be a professional writer, you need what Hemingway called an "foolproof bull**** detector."

Be skeptical and do your research before believing the lines of shysters like Melanie Mills, et al. A few minutes Googling orasking questions on a board like this could save you a lot of heartache.

It's disheartening as well as embarassing to be taken advantage of. But get back to what's really important--your;) writing. ;)

[Rochester Ruth]

Well, yeah, any agent who asks for money upfront usually is offkilter -- but not every aspiring writer knows that. It's still a good idea to check with the professional organizations, peers and other resources, because, as this discussion shows, someone can be very convincing when asking for our money.

My point was that you shouldn't be asked for, or give out, your Social Security number for things like conference registration. Of course it will be needed if you get published and are about to receive an advance and/or royalties, but that's a whole different thing; employers are among the (very few) entities with a legal right to your SSN.

Ruth Thaler-Carter, Freelance Writer/Editor
"I can write about anything!" (TM)
Rochester, NY

[Rochester Ruth]

Just a quick apology for sending essentially the same message twice; I wasn't sure I had set up the first one correctly.

Ruth Thaler-Carter, Freelance Writer/Editor
"I can write about anything!" (TM)
Rochester, NY

[Rochester Ruth]

If someone is "stealing your article clips" - putting their name on your published work - that's plagiarism, and you can do something about it. You can't protect or copyright an idea, though, and your query or article idea is just that until it's published in some way - as an article, a book, a webstory, etc. Keep in mind that magazines plan their content months, if not a year, in advance, so an editor may legitimately already have scheduled an idea you just pitched. Book publishers get hundreds of proposals and queries from agents and writers, so someone at a publisher may already have contracted for a book similar to yours. I protect myself against having ideas taken over by others by being cagey about sources - describing them but not naming them or giving their contact info - so the worst someone might be able to do is use a variation of my idea but not my actual people. I also try to get editorial calendars for magazines, and to read an issue or two, before sending queries, so I don't pitch something they just did.
Ruth Thaler-Carter, Freelance Writer/Editor
"I can write about anything!" (TM)
Rochester, NY

[James]

"Whatever. I've been tracking agent scams for more than five years, and am participating in a number of active investigations, which gives me a bit of insight into protocol, not to mention a sense of the bigger picture...but what do I know?"

Are you a lawyer, or do you have any legal training?

I've been in the book industry for almost ten years and you don't consider me an expert yet.

James

[Dave Kuzminski]

I wonder if this business mentioned at URL www.bcpassport.com/kids/books.html (http://www.bcpassport.com/kids/books.html) is the large chain that James works for?

[cdcasserly]

Good grief. I click onto this site to find info about Melanie or other scam agents, and what do I read? Nothing but sniping. How sad.

As far as writers' sites such as Writers' Beware and Preditors and Editors, I have found them quite helpful. They aren't the be all, end all, but are a terrific place to research an agent. As a two decade high school English teacher, when I show my kids how to conduct a search, I teach them to check any and all primary and secondary references they can on their subject. We discuss how to validate or corroborate data they have found. I'm sure you all learned this in high school, too.

After I've found a possible agent, I go to the two sites mentioned above and look for any info. Then I try to find the agent's site, if there is one. I check Publishers Marketplace for sales records and any other sites I can find. Still, I was scammed by Melanie. This was no one's fault, even mine, and believe me, I've felt stupid since this all broke earlier this month. I thought that I had done everything right this time. (By this time, I mean that I was taken in by Lee Shore way back in '95, right after I published, unagented, my first book. As a neophyte, I didn't know that her practices... reading fees, paying for cost of copies, etc, were wrong. If it wasn't for P&E and WB, I might not have had my eyes opened as soon as I did, enabling me to cancel my contract w/her.)

I didn't contact Victoria before I signed with Melanie... only after. I wish that I had. Now I know to do that, though, and wrote her when I had two bites from NY agents last week. She promptly wrote me back, corroborating data that I had found as well as my instincts. Thanks, Victoria.

I appreciate these sites for two reasons. First, they'll separate the snake oil agents from the rest. Second, they take their precious time, and ask for no pay, to answer my many questions. And time for me for ten months a year is very, very precious what with piles of essays from my seniors and all. Also, I found this site quite helpful when I started reading it in May after I began to question Melanie's excuses to me regarding my writing and the conferences.

Can we keep it as a place for writers to go for information instead of turning it into an "I know more than you do" debate or a bitch session on who's right and who isn't? I, for one, would much rather read about info on agents and any news on the Melanie front.

[brightm]

I was thinking the same thing as you Casserly. this particular line of messages was supposed to be about Melanie and all of a sudden it went into a tail spin. you were also right about the checking and double checking. My partner and I had thought that we did a sufficient amount of research and since this all happened I've discovered there was more I could do as well as learned that sometimes you can do it all and still get suckered. I've since come to the decission that as a writer the only way I'm going to get noticed is to put it out there and no matter how or what there will be some risk. A published book would definitely be worth it...

shirley

[historybuff]

I've got opinions, but I'd really just like to check in for The Daily Melanie, too. lol H/B

[littlevoiceinside]

I have been following the posts on this board for a couple of months...beginning with my partner's initial discovery of this site in our efforts to discover more about our agent, Melanie Mills. During this time, I have been, in turns, disgusted, frustrated, angry and sometimes amused, by the information I've read concerning Melanie and the rest of us--our shared foibles.

I have found, over the years, that trust is tenuous, at best, and finding someone you trust completely is a joy we all strive to embrace.

I have a point here.

This experience with Melanie was, for me, a revelation. She taught me many things in the two years she was representing myself and my partner...things that, at times, were helpful. Before she became our agent, we knew very little about the writing industry, a lack of knowledge that would eventually be the tool she used to teach us the best lesson of all.

Do your homework!!

Research every aspect of any endeavor you choose to undertake...from the book's inception, to its delivery into the hands of a publisher. That includes sussing out any and all information available about your agent, editor, publisher.

I find this lesson invaluable. Some people may choose to view this experience with Melanie as a setback, or worse, a catastrophe. Believe me when I tell you, you do yourself a disservice, and by so doing, give her actions power and significance.

You let her win.

I for one, refuse to cow down to the inferiority that spurs this mindset. I will view this experience as one of discovery and a lesson well learned.

IF Melanie is alive and following our discussions on this site, then she has found her reason for the bad choices she's made and the lives she's disrupted. With our words of distress, she has found the soil with which to plant her seeds of dissention. Instead of using our gift with words to show her the error of her ways, we've given her ammunition with which to keep her lack of moral fiber fully loaded.

If she has passed on, then we have done naught more than to curse that which can no longer defend itself.

Still, I have to wonder to what end these discussions hope to meet...a satisfactory conclusion to a story that has been nothing more than convoluted conjecture and, to use the words of another writer, 'sniping'?

So, before you click on the reply button, think about what you want to say...what message you want those of us who hang on your every word, wish to hear.

I'm waiting.

[reph]

Isn't this supposed to be the Melanie Mills thread?

[noel]

I check on every day to see what might be new and all I get is people fighting about things I could care less about. Could we discuss the thread that many of us are interested in and not egos punching at each other--whoever you are.

I liked Melanie. I'm sorry if she is dead, I am sorry if she ripped us off. Either way I am waiting for some word and not off-topic stuff. Pleeeeeaaaase!!

Noel

[historybuff]

I agree. Get another table, you guys.

[inkblotpsycho]

Melanie Mills (:evil ) is the most disgusting example of her kind that I have ever beheld.
>: The next time I decide to do anything with her, it will be putting her head on a stake as a warning to her ilk.

[pacwriter]

Melanie MIlls was killed in auto accident in Europe.

[betjam]

The proof is...

[brightm]

yea yea yea....I've learned a lesson. I'm not crying any tears or bemoaning a few hundred dollars that I haven't thought of in over a year. I'm not teetering on the edge of giving up my passion for writing. (as if!!!) But as much as I'm for being the bigger person... thinking of all the disruption that Melanie has caused in a logical manner, there's still the pissed off woman inside and she says...."Melanie's dead? Great. Show me the body...Just give me directions to her grave..."

[absolutewrite]

Dave and James: This IS the Melanie Mills thread, and you're more than welcome to continue your own fights on our newly-formed "Take it Outside Board." Anything from either of you on this thread will be deleted unless it directly pertains to Melanie Mills and not to each other.

And James, for crying out loud, me closing down the two PA threads had NOTHING to do with you "starting to fight back" and I did NOT ban you from these boards. You'd been fighting back all along, first of all, and second of all, I just hit a point where it all felt pretty repetitive and not very useful to everyone else on this board (many of whom complained that your fight was taking over this board). Therefore, I closed those threads. Simple. Now feel free to continue on the other board: pub43.ezboard.com/fabsolutewritefrm32 (http://pub43.ezboard.com/fabsolutewritefrm32)

[Mmywriter]

I too, was represented by Melanie Mills. I am beginning to wonder how many of us are out there? Since we never associated with each other, there could be hundreds...
My husband was always suspicious of her. I went through the "you-have-a-big-publishing-house -interested-in-your-manuscript-but-it-needs-to-be- edited-and-we-provide-that-service" experience too.
This was my concern: I found out about Melanie's death by accident, while browsing P&E. Since she REPRESENTED me for nearly three years, why didn't I at least receive a "form" email? It would have been the courteous thing.
My husband suggested she faked her death, and to prove him wrong, I went and searched the internet for an obit, news report, anything. (Like a lot of you, apparently) and of course, found nothing. :(
So, what gives? I haven't thought about the money but yes, I had JUST sent her a rewritten manuscript and CD. I would love them back, like all of you.
If she really is dead, and the proof comes out, I will go and repent. Until then, I remain >:

[Betjam]

I agree Mnywriter. I believe there are 100's. Please don't let this make you feel you aren't really good enough for an agent. When others doubt that we even had an agent and then find out she was a fraud we feel like a fool. However, she was very good at her scam, She would tell you what you may needed to hear. I came from terrible abuse and wrote about it. She told me she went through the same thing and her mother shot her father because of the incest. Now I believe it was all to rope me in. I'm back at sending queries but now with a vengence I don't want her to win. I don't belive she is dead. She created the image of a family member dying in "Fancy" Europe. Then created the "Tragic" accident, I'm sure. Above there is a FBI site to report on her please add your name or go to beware site and report there. We need alll the evidence we can get. If I sound cynica now it's because I resent those who take advantage of those struggling to pull them selves up and write to help others only to be stepped on by her. Nevertheless we are strong and moved past worse and we will do it better more informed now.
Good Luck Mnywriter I know you will find someone again to believe in your writing. You write for a reason.

[Mmywriter]

Betjam, you are SO right. I have been writing and dreaming since my age was in the single digits. My take on Melanie is that she started out as a legit agent, but greed set in. Yes, this woman may have wasted years of my life, (and I'm not going to deny that the fact she has all my materials doesn't make me nervous) but don't they say that life breaks us and afterwards we are stronger in the broken places?
She has made me (more than ever) determined to get out there and get representation. In retrospect, I am mad at myself for being such a milquetoast with her. I was just so dang happy someone wanted to represent me, I blindly did everything she asked. I am sure I was a "dream client for her". (Don't you worry, I just wrote a small novel to Victoria @beware about my experiences with her.) All of us out there who have been scammed by this woman--the greatest revenge will be to perservere...and SUCCEED.
:rollin

[jeffthefish]

I find it interesting how many of us seem to have similar experiences with unreliable, unscrupulous, inaccessible agents. It seems the first time or unpublished authors have little chance of getting decent representation. The reasons are obvious. Most cannot be sold to publishers with the resources or inclination to invest in an unknown. Those that do sell will get tiny advances. Figure it out. 15% of $5000 is just $750. That justifies maybe three hours work time to anyone successful. How much of our novels can be read in that time? And if they are accepted, how much time, effort, heartache, expense must be added to the reading time? If Melanie was a thief, so be it. I suspect each of us used lots of her time for little or no commissions received. The only way the agency thing can pay is if the agent finds the literary lottery ticket. After a few years of trying with no luck, no one would stay in it without a way to generate some income. If you paid her for editing, a fee up front, etc., don’t whine. If she promised to submit and didn’t, that’s a different story.
I’m an attorney running a civil litigation practice. I have no experience as a literary agent, although I have represented many businesses of all types. The book-marketing concept can’t be so different from other businesses. The golden rules have to be don’t lie, disclose everything and sell only quality products. If enough of you were interested in that type of representation, I would consider having my firm start up a literary agency. I would advance no expenses but charge no fees. If accepted, you would pay actual (not inflated) mailing, copying and printing expenses. All correspondence would be by e-mail to avoid costs. If you’re interested, let me know. jjj2000@yahoo.com

[jeffthefish]

My correct e-mail address is jjj7772000@yahoo.com
Sorry for the error.

[Mmywriter]

Jeffthefish,

That's a great idea! As soon as you become an AAR member, I will query you! ;)

"Experience comes from knowledge, and knowledge comes from BAD experience" I've learned my lesson. Thanks to Ms. Mills!

[SRHowen]

an agent needs contacts in the publishing biz. Otherwise ms from an unknown goes to the slush pile just the same as if an author sent it themselves.

The agent has to have a good track record with publishers and be able to "do lunch" where not much lunch actually takes place--negotiations and "I have this you might like" is more like it.

Very small agencies mostly deal with small press. And beginning ones rarely have the contacts unless the agent left a previous firm. Otherwise anyone could put a letter head on their query and envelope and presto off the slush pile you go.

No I am not an agent, but I am an editor and have done freelance editing for agencies (mostly in Europe) but the process is not so much different.

If your writing is good it will find a home--you just have to keep going.

Shawn

[Victoria]

>>It seems the first time or unpublished authors have little chance of getting decent representation. The reasons are obvious. Most cannot be sold to publishers with the resources or inclination to invest in an unknown. Those that do sell will get tiny advances.<<

I know it can seem this way, and I truly understand the frustration of the quest for publication. But many, many first-time authors are able to find excellent representation, and to sell to commercial publishers. I know many who've done so. And take a look at the reviews in a few issues of Publishers Weekly, or subscribe to the Publishers Lunch newsletter, and you'll see how many first-time authors are making sales via reputable agents.

It's certainly true that the advance for an unknown is often smaller than for someone who has proved him/herself (on the other hand, new authors' advances can be sky-high for exactly the same reason--the new writer might turn out to be the next J.K. Rowling, whereas the established midlister has already defined his or her likely performance by previous sales). A good agent, however, doesn't take on a writer as a one-shot deal. She isn't looking to represent a single book, but a writing career, and she assumes that the initial sale is just the first of many--hopefully, with steadily increasing advances. Also, her client list includes established writers whose reliable income can balance the greater uncertainty of taking on unknowns (this is one reason to beware of an agent whose list is made up largely or entirely of new writers).

>>I have no experience as a literary agent, although I have represented many businesses of all types. The book-marketing concept can’t be so different from other businesses. The golden rules have to be don’t lie, disclose everything and sell only quality products. If enough of you were interested in that type of representation, I would consider having my firm start up a literary agency.<<

Publishing is a small and secretive world, requiring expertise that's not easy to gather without actually working or participating in it--including the ability to recognize marketable writing (this isn't easy; look how many mistakes even established publishers make), a solid understanding of publishing trends and issues both in the US and overseas, and a familiarity with publishing law and publishing contract issues. Plus, and possibly even more important, you need personal contacts within the industry, so that you can bypass the publisher's various gatekeeping methods and get manuscripts directly onto the desks of appropriate editors.

Agencies that don't have this level of expertise really don't offer adequate representation to their clients. Many people believe that just the title "literary agent" is enough to get them through doors that otherwise remain closed; but this really isn't true. Publishing house editors prefer to work with agents they know, either personally or by reputation, since they can trust agents like this to represent marketable work, and to know enough to give them manuscripts that are likely to match their tastes and interests. New, unknown agencies that haven't proved themselves are given much lower priority (unless of course the agent used to be an editor, or has spun off from another established agency--those personal contacts again). If, as often happens, they reveal their lack of experience by doing something obviously unprofessional--submitting inappropriate or substandard work, for instance, or doing cost-saving things like bundling submissions or avoiding snail mail--they are likely to be relegated to the slush pile along with the unagented writers.

I know this sounds harsh. But you can't just become a literary agent, any more than you can just become a real estate agent or a building contractor. There's expertise involved, and some degree of training and/or apprenticeship is necessary if you want to provide adequate service. Otherwise, and with the best intentions in the world, you may wind up doing your clients more harm than good

- Victoria
Writer Beware
www.sfwa.org/beware/ (http://www.sfwa.org/beware/)

[jeffthefish]

I was expecting naysayers from the bitter and rejected, but not from you, Victoria. In my 25 years practicing law, I've yet to encounter a business that one could not become educated about in a relatively short time and never saw one where the players didn't want to talk about what they do. As for you cynics, I believe there are folks out there who want to help newcomers into their field. As for contacts, I agree. Having none is a definite negative that will probably lead me to conclude such a venture is not worth the effort. But I believe sending quality queries on worthwhile projects will quickly create those contacts. It struck me as strange how so much depends on the queries the agent sends out, yet rarely does the author ever see what the agent was saying about the work. That's one thing I would do differently. Look, if you aren't interested, that's fine. I don't write to make a living and I sure don't expect to agent to make one. But if it can be fun, challenging and do some good for some good people, that's fine with me. Victoria, I have reasonable expectations and only would represent those who do, as well. That's the way I'd do this venture and the way I practice law. But thanks for your advice and insight. If I decide to do it, I'd love to get more input from you. I know you've learned so much running this service.

[SRHowen]

I agree with Victoria completely. Publishing is a skill, agenting is as well. Take a look at www.zackcompany.com see where he came from, his education, his background, his work history before he became an agent. It's on the home page.

Then take a look at his client list--as Victoria stated, he has established clients--Leonard Nimoy and John DeLanci(Alien Voices on his client list.) Peter David as well as many others who sell regularly. BUT--over half his clients are/were never before sold a novel people.

He edits his clients work, he stays in contact with you at all times, he regularly lets you know where your work is at as far as sales go, he keeps you abreast of book sellers out there who want certain books--(such as the K.I.S.S series of books among others)--those looking for writer. Heck if you're stuck on an idea he'll give you one to run with.

He's a member of the AAR--and is part of their organization as more than a simple member.

He has the experience and know how to sell a book.

Honestly--if you have never done publishing or editing or even worked in a book store for that matter--I would not want you for an agent.

Yes that's harsh--but it's the facts.

As I said I work in publishing, I am not bitter--I have represention with Andy Zack. I am listed there under SRHowen and my book Medicine Man. And Andy is not just interested in this one title he is interested in helping my career. Fee free I might add and we have spent a lot of hours getting my book just right--fee free.

Can you honestly devote that kind of time? It's not just a matter of sending out good queries. An agent has to meet face to face with publishers and be someone they trust. Do you know what is going ot be popular two years from now? An agent has to be able to guess that--it takes a year sometimes longer for a bok to get to the shelves from contract to print. Even getting an agent--it can take a year to sell--so maybe two years. Do you have an english major--can you edit?

IMHO

Shawn

[Victoria]

But the thing is, successful agents _don't_ query. They pick up the phone, and because they know the editor they're calling, or are known to the editor by reputation, the editor takes their call. A good agent can pitch your ms. one day, and have it in the editor's office the next. It's only unknown, inexperienced or obviously unprofessional agents who are subjected to the query runaround, and have to wait weeks or even months for a response, just like unagented writers do.

The whole point of getting an agent is not having to deal with the runaround. More and more, I'm becoming convinced that the only kind of agent worth having is a top-flight agent. Mediocre and marginal agents don't do a great deal better than a diligent, well-educated writer could do on his or her own; in fact, they can do actual harm by misrepresenting their abilities or wasting the writer's time. The doors that are closed to unagented writers are just as closed to marginal agents.

I find it so strange that people understand the challenges and difficulties of finding publication, yet think it's easy to become a literary agent. Look, if you wanted to sell real estate, you'd have to take instruction and pass exams. If you wanted to be a building contractor, you'd have to learn how to put up buildings. Why should it be different with a literary agent? There's a learning process involved. I'm not saying it can't be done by a non-industry insider; but it takes time and effort, and if you take on clients before that learning curve is complete, you won't be serving their best interests.

- Victoria
Writer Beware
www.sfwa.org/beware (http://www.sfwa.org/beware)

[jeffthefish]

Seems like my little brainstorm inspired lots of thought by many of you, some responded here, some privately by e-mail. But your negative points are well taken and I appreciate them. Truth be told, the real problem for me would be a lack of available time (as one of you suggested). So I guess I'll scrap this idea. But here's another one for you to ponder. Why not create a limited partnership, screen, publish and market our own products. I do have production facilities, professional readers, editors and two marketing people w/many years of successful experience available. But why couldn't we all help read, edit, screen and promote us? If we got 20 people to each put up $25,000, we could secure an additional credit line of 500,000 for a total working capital of $1,000,000. We could produce 10,000 hard-cover copies of each 100,000 word book for $40,000 (and get terms), and have lots of dollars for promotion. Starting with our five best, we'd have an initial investment of $200,000 and budget $200,000 to initial advertising. Then, who knows? There's been so much consolidation in the publishing business, maybe there's room for a new player. Any interest out there? jjj7772000@yahoo.com

[lbasie]

of becoming an agent, you wish to become a publisher?

[historybuff]

Interested, yes. I've got 3 ms that my test readers tell me is really good stuff. Better than what they read most of the time. I don't think they are blowing smoke up my anal sphincter, not when they all say the same things.
( I do get some cricitical comments as well, I'm not perfect, yet.)

Like Victoria says, the market is just not set up to deal with the multiplicity of decent work out there. A tough fact, but a rewarding one, in a backhanded sort of way. The world, ladies and gentlemen, is a tough town to play.

So, maybe a cooperative publishing effort isn't such a bad deal?

[Victoria]

>>Like Victoria says, the market is just not set up to deal with the multiplicity of decent work out there.<<

I will probably get in trouble for this, but that's not what I intended to imply. I don't subscribe to the notion that the world is awash in wonderful manuscripts that remain undiscovered due to the shortsightedness of the publishing industry or the fact that too few books are published (IMO, far too many books are published). Maybe 10% of what's submitted to publishers even approaches publishability; a far smaller percentage of that is actually publishable. Anyone who has ever looked at a publisher's slush pile will say the same.

Yes, there's a lot of crappy stuff put out by commercial publishers (but there always has been). IMO, this doesn't bespeak the fact that the bad stuff is being selected over the good so much as the fact that publishers' lists are just too large.

Of course there's good work that doesn't find a home. And large commercial houses are generally less willing than in the past to take chances on something they fear won't make money (though at least some of that gap is being filled by bold independents like Macadam/Cage). But given a savvy and persistent author, and a genuninely marketable manuscript, I think the odds are more in the author's favor than not.

As I've said here before, what's hard nowadays isn't to start a career, but to sustain one.

- Victoria
Writer Beware
www.sfwa.org/beware (http://www.sfwa.org/beware)

[jeffthefish]

Listen, y'all. I do not "wish" to become a literary agent, a publisher, a real estate agent or center on the Hawks. I am seeking to wind down my practice and have some fun-hopefully with people I can stand. Irrational and illogical rejection sucks. Being judged by others whom you know are intellectually inferior sucks. For those of you who wasted time w/Melanie and wasted energy being nice to her while she was apparently screwing you, take control. That does not mean go find another who might not be any better. It means take the risk. Put your money where your heart is. Anyone can self-publish, but you're doomed to death because you can't reasonably market or afford to promote a single item effectively. This is no different than any other product line in spite of how we'd like to glamorize it. A cooperative plan can work if noone is out to cheat or steal and everyone keeps their eye on the ball. Hey, you don't need to do this with me. But do it. Stop wasting time. And consider this, why should it take 1-3 years to get your book on the shelves when Hillery's took 5 minutes? Just a thought.

[sfsassenach]

re Hilary.

Publishing is somewhat celebrity-driven, and big names get big advances. In Hilary's case, her book's sold well enough to earn back her advance.

Most of us who write for a living don't have $25K to "invest" in a publishing company. And if I did have that kind of $$, I'd definitely put it in something less volatile!

[SRHowen]

No as easy as you think. It's the contacts again. WCP--recently went from a magazine to an e-book publisher. Figuring everything out ect has taken a long time--a good year. We already have a relationship with Amazon--lucky for us. But try to get say Hastings (big book chain in the south/south west) to put your books on the shelf--whew.

The sad thing is this--as an editor I have seen the stuff people tout to be the next great American story/novel. You may think your work is the greatest on earth, and three other people may say the same--but--even when you think you have perfection in truth there is a lot of work to do yet.

Persistence, patience, and hard work are the only way to get onto the shelves--or into someone's e-book catalog.

Take a look at www.wildchildpublishing.com If you have a quality book--and we publish all genres except porn and erotica--look up our submission guide lines. If you want to try e-book. We have 90,000 readers each month--that is a potential from our site alone of 90,000 shoppers. On top of that WE DO NOT CHARGE ANY FEES--no hidden ones, no hey you need an outside editor--we are professional editors. Sorry we are nto able to pay you an advance yet--soon we hope.

Shawn
Assistant Editor
Science Fiction and Non-fiction
Wild Child publishing .com

[sfsassenach]

The e-book business has yet to make anyone any $$--especially writers.

Your site, which I checked out, doesn't pay contributors, which bothers me.

[historybuff]

Victoria,
Sorry, didn't mean to put words into your mouth by an over simplification. Your assessment is undoubtedly more astute than mine.8)

[PiscesChild]

Jeez Louise, people, get over it!

Melanie screwed us. We're all the wiser now. If you gave your info to the various investigators, move on!

I always knew my book was good, so I kept at it, and now I have a rock star NYC lit agency, and now I'm getting offers. BTW The real agencies don;t even make you sign contracts. They have this thing called "reputation". They don't need contracts.

This seems to be a "wallow and lament the fact that I can't get an agent" forum now. You can get an agent, it's just incredibly hard. But it is possible. You have to bust your ass, not spend hours whining on a forum about a con-artist that faked her death.

You need to network contacts. Period. No credible agency will take you on unless you are referred. That is what "no unsolicted ms" means.

Two last things: One, you are totally insane to think you can start a publishing company. If you don't have distribution, advertising, and marketing, you are sunk. I have many friends who lost their asses trying to set up an Independent Press. I'm also shopping a publishing company for investment capital, but only because it is Sander Hicks' new company, the man who founded Soft Skull Press and published "Fortunate Son" about that criminal con-man president of ours. Sander has name recognition, celebrity writers, and a proven sales record. Hence, his proposal has merit. Joe Unknown trying to sell a publishing company (particularly someone like the guy here who obviously knows nothing about the publishing busines) is not gonna get many bites.

Lastly, I am shocked that a group of so-called writers hasn't seen that the greatest plot line on earth just fell into their laps. Stop bitching and start writing about it.

It's been real, but you guys are WAY to depressing for me, and I have moved on. You should too.

Charles Shaw
Author
Chicago, IL

[hermanmunster]

:hat
Chuck, chill out, dude. It's only a message board.

[absolutewrite]

Charles, it IS a pretty great plot, no? :) But, seriously, nope, it's not about Melanie anymore-- and yet, I think the discussion is still pretty darn interesting.

I once learned the hard way about inexperienced agenting. I was between agents; had just gotten rid of my last screenwriting agent, and I was querying on my own. A producer expressed interest in one of my scripts and asked me to have my agent send it over. I had a friend "pose" as an agent. She made up some letterhead and sent my script for me. The producer wrote to me to ask who heck the agent was and why she wasn't on WGA's signatory list. Then he specified that once I had a WGA agent, he'd be happy to look at my script.

But on the other hand...

You don't always need an agent and you don't always need contacts. I've had plenty of editors at major publishing houses read my proposals-- which I've sent via e-mail, no less, completely unsolicited-- even when they have a "no unagented submissions" policy. But, yes, that was after I'd already had a few books sold and sort of a reputation to draw from. I don't know if they would have shown me the same courtesy as a first-time writer.

Still... I'm now on my tenth book, and my agent sold only two of those. I made the other deals on my own. I wonder if we should start a new thread... perhaps not on the bewares board...?

[betjam]

Jenna
I agree with you. We went through the shock and disblief, even the anger and finally accepted we were scammed. However, each person talks about moving on now and we're getting good tips and trying to be supportive of each other. Everyone is pretty open to ideas, its going to be different for each of us now. I tried what you did and sent to agents and publishers. I'm trying just about anything. This board must be interesting or we wouldn't have so many answering. Even Chuck pushed us a little more shaking us out of our regrets. We hear you Chuck.
I sent out more query's again and made a goal to send out a few each week, again.
I was wondering if its proper to bind manuscripts so they can read them easier. I know most sources say to leave loose but I wondered if things changed. Or is that a absolute no, no. Where can I get an example of the perfect query? I do have writer's market but I don't know if there is a better one? This board helped calm me down enough that my dylexia is easing up. Thanks everyone even you my grabby friend. You know who I mean:rollin .
Shook up a little but wiser.::D
Betjam

[SRHowen]

I have not heard that you should now bind mss. only bind scripts.

The perfect query--ugh--I could take every how to book and toss them out the window. Every one of them is different.

I finally went with what it said on an agent's web site and combined that with an agency that accepted e-queries.

It was the one that finally got me accepted and even the rejections I got with it were complimentary of the query.

I've been lucky; I never had to deal with Mills. But having spent a good number of years on the editing side of the fence I had an idea of the scams out there. Even so, an agency here in TX almost took me in --they can really prey on you, sadly because so many places don't take unagented ms.

As to the query, e-mail me and I will send you an example.

Shawn

[Victoria]

Definitely don't bind a book manuscript. That's a serious no-no.

Here's what I think is a great article on query letters, using a query that sold a series: www.sfwa.org/writing/query.htm (http://www.sfwa.org/writing/query.htm)

- Victoria
Writer Beware
www.sfwa.org/beware (http://www.sfwa.org/beware)

[betjam]

Thanks so much SRHowen and Victoria I printed off the article and this weekend I going to study it and change my query accordingly. i just keep hoping and telling myself someday;) .

[Chip]

I may be wrong, but wasn't it Melanie Mills who was just recently killed in a car accident?

[emeraldcite]

you got quite an eye there, chip. that's what everyone's debating ;)

[kcarpenter]

Chip, you need to go back and read the message board starting at page 1. Anyone else who is just getting in on this should start at the beginning. It's an eye-opening read.

[Mmywriter]

Any new relevant info? Has everyone found a new agent to replace Melanie yet? I am having quite a hard time. How is everyone else faring?

[wildwilybill]

:rolleyes
You know, I have been having a rather hard time finding a new agent myself. I have quiet a few looking it over and the rejections are rather numerous, but we are still looking.
I got took...how many warnings had I received before allowing myself to be drawn into her rather eloquent bull and signed anyway? Who, after all, is really to blame? Duh...guys its us. So, with the whining a snot slinging over with, get back to library, web sites and start trying to put yourself back into the race. No matter what anyone else thinks, I've got a damn good book, no damn good series going and just because I allowed myself to be sidetracked by the likes of her, I am not about to cave in.

Bill Simpson WilcSimpson@ev1.net

[Mmywriter]

You know, I will admit that as soon as this whole death scam/money scam, etc with Melanie came out, for about ten seconds I thought to myself: OMG, did she only want to represent me because I could pay an upfront fee? What if my story really WASN'T that good?

IF ANY OF YOU OUT THERE THOUGHT THAT, DO WHAT I DID AND STOP IT RIGHT NOW.

Bill you are right. Yes, I am having a hard time finding another agent, but isn't it hard to find an agent ANYWAY? I am hitting the research, and I am only querying agents whom I have researched thoroughly. I think my story is great too, and I WILL see it in print out there someday.
This whole experience sure has made us all the wiser, to be sure. (and as I said in previous posts--all the more DETERMINED!) ;)

[Austenwannabe]

Wow, this all has been EXTREMELY eye opening, I have to say. I too, was represented by Melanie. But my experience with her was quite different. I honestly think she really TRIED with my manuscript. She sent tracking sheets and sent me scanned rejection letters.

I got a call from her last year, and she told me that Random House was interested in my YA Fiction manuscript, but that it needed some editing before I submitted the entire thing. After I was finished jumping up and down, I (at Melanie's advice) got someone else to edit it. In fact, in an email she sent me, she told me she was "very expensive" and told me it would be better to find someone else to edit. I even asked her if she could recommend an editor and she replied that she didn't do that.

Sadly, a month and a thousand dollars later, I got a rejection letter from Random House. But I will say, the rejection was extremely detailed (with examples) and they did say they liked my novel's concept.

I guess what I am trying to say is, I truly think Melanie was an AGENT for me. I think she really tried. I think there are more of me out there, who would like to jump on the "bash Melanie" bandwagon (and say "she cheated me, she cheated me!") but aren't, because they honestly feel she really tried for them. I am one of those people. If she really is a scam who faked her death, that is too bad. I too, am having an extremely hard time finding an agent interested in a YA fiction manuscript, and it's a pain in the neck, but I don't feel like the two years Melanie represented me were a waste of time. I really believe with me she honestly tried. Any more of you out there?

[betjam]

You may want to type in on yahoo search, Melanie Mills and read about 4th down list click on Melanie Mills agent sweet, compassionte, caring-then scan down to posting by Charles Shaw. August 9th.
www.cyblingcom/boards/bflymessage/890html/
Thats the newest information I saw.
I check current information and still work on queries, etc.
I just keep trying to get an agent or publisher.
Until they catch her we will never know how good or bad she was. She could have faked tracking sheets and publisher letters. Or she could have sent a few out now and then. Whatever she did I think we have a better chance without her. We are talking years for most of her clients and none that we can proved published. A bad agent isn't better than no agent. because you lose the time you had for finding a great agent. We learned now and I'm glad for this board it taught me alot and we supported each other through it.

[unsure]

I've been watching this board for some time now, hoping someone else would say this first. I was on of Melanie Mill's 'clients' and actually she became somewhat friendly. She sent me, what she said, is a picture of her. Anybody else get one???

A question though. Why the death mascarade? why not simply shut down and walk away? I must be missing something....?

[emeraldcite]

if she decided to 'die' instead of walk away, a number of people would feel bad and not try to contact her. if she just walked away, she would be hounded by mail, by phone, and by whatever other means to contact her regarding their contracts/books/etc.

if she's dead, that means no correspondence.

[Victoria]

And no reimbursements.

- Victoria
Writer Beware
www.sfwa.org/beware/ (http://www.sfwa.org/beware/)

[absolutewrite]

Hi Betjam,

That link isn't working. Would you mind checking it? I'd like to read it. And you're absolutely right about a bad agent being worse than no agent at all!

[emeraldcite]

absolute:

found the link, but it might change, it's a post board:


www.cybling.com/boards/bflymessages/971.html (http://www.cybling.com/boards/bflymessages/971.html)


if you have trouble with this one, go to www.cybling.com then click on messages boards then on writing on the fly then ctrl-f and search for Mills. you'll find the message by shaw

[emeraldcite]

I'll just make this simple, this is what was posted there:

"Melanie Mills" (aka. "Lisa Mills" and "Kat Baker&quot;) was a con-woman wanted in multiple states for Agency, Real Estate, and "Writers Conference" fraud. She faked her death, and remains at large.

The Ez Board charts much of this, and is verifiable. There are also a number of police stations in the Myrtle Beach South Carolina area looking into her, as well as the FBI.

that's it

[brightm]

This is in response to several new additions here. My partner and I received tracking sheets from Melanie as well. so what. a good con will make it appear legit to keep the scam going. I have no doubt that she was knowledgeable about agenting. Again to make the con work she'd have to sound legit. She also sent my partner a picture which in turn has been scanned and sent to necessary law enforcement, as well as copies of ALL correspondence which includes contracts and emails. As for walking away from her business or faking her death....NEITHER is professional. I've said it earlier, if she was tired of the business we should have been contacted individually. If she's dead then her executor or supposed family should have handled the situation. Sheesh people, no family can be located, yet the woman claimed to have some and this Kat, Rat or whatever is no where to be found. What it comes down to is I don't care if she sent my ms off or not. My partner and were not in any sense of the word represented in a professional manner. AND I'm still saying, show be the body...I'd even be satisfied if the cops said they'd found the head stone..sound tacky? well so does taking advantage of hopes and dreams. Good gone bad, bad gone ugly..it just doesn't matter.


Best of luck to everyone. Keep your eye on the prize...
Bright

[emosby]

I have been reading this thread for quite some time now and I am very much dedicated to say that I think Melanie Mills is still alive and she is watching this thread. I too had a contract with her and was invited to the writers conference but I could not attend, if it was ever going to take place. I have seen a picture of melanie, which she emailed to me, and I will try to post it for all to see. She told me about her daughter, who was also writing a book. She also told me that she had a book deal in the works and now I wonder if that was true. Melanie, if you are reading this thread, shame on you.

[betjam]

I went back to college to finish my Bach. degree and I work fulltime and take classes full time and I'm 54. Not easy so I've been busy. I think about all of you and feel a connection going through what we did. I was wondering if anyone heard anything. I'm not writing right now because I thought I would give myself the next 8 months to finish this once and for all. I'm sending out querys on my 2 and 1/2 books though anyone having any luck? I don't worry about rejection I just keep plugging. Some times I wander why? Then I think there must be a reason why I wrote and why I don't give up. So I keep on trying. :D

[Mmywriter]

Yes, I just signed with a new agent and she is WONDERFUL! The difference between her communication and Melanie's (for a start) is very refreshing. I've only been dealing with her for a month and I've already talked with her on the phone three times and exchanged a ton of emails, MORE SO than Melanie communicated with me in TWO YEARS. Life is definitely getting much better! Of course it was tough, I had to query about 37 agents and go through the whole yucky process for three months. But perseverance pays off--and I'm finally on my way!
One thing I can say--this time around I was a lot SMARTER. I have Melanie (Kat, Lisa, etc) to thank for that!:rollin

[unsure]

Great news for you! That is very encouraging to me, so thanks. I'll keep after it, too, and maybe the "Melanie" experience won't be wasted for either. Well done!

[sassenach]

...this thread could finally end:rollin

[Mmywriter]

But of course, this thread may never end. As long as that woman is at large, someone will have something to say about her. D*MMIT, she wasted our time before, and I guess she's still wasting it, isn't she? Maybe it's a thrill for her to read these posts. Maybe if we just ended the thread right here she'd shrivel up and die...

IT'S A THOUGHT! :evil

[betjam]

Here is another thought. I check out this site because I came to really like the ones who wrote on it and sharing their successes and failures. Melanie will get hers eventually. We're way past her now. It's the only place we know to meet other writer that share a commom problem getting published and let's face it the common bond we have for getting cheated. We could start another thread a writer's share thread. The next time I come on I will look for a Writer's share thread. I saw the writer who just found a new agent it gives me hope. Also, we don't feel so stupid when it wasn't just us that believed in a fraud.

[betjam]

Or here's a thought we can see if we get to 200 replys.;)

[wildwilybill]

Took me a few weeks but I finally realized success. I have a new agent and this one is a true for true real deal. Of course, he has been cracking the whip and putting my manuscripts into shape. I guess I have Melanie to thank for one thing, I knew what to look for and what not to fall for at the same moment.
The new scam I ran accross quiet often came int he form of the $95 refundable deposit. With a little research-and less whining-I found out the truth of things and avoided ithis particular pit fall. More of the Melanie sytle of only XX dollars I we almost--get the almost--guarantee that you will get published. There is no such thing as free lunch...but just cause you pay a fortune for a hamburger...it's still a hamburger. So quit trying to get it the easy way, it ain't happening.
If I might lend a bit of advice and share something I recieved from the marvelous lady, Victoria. "If it cost the writer, it's a scam." Simply put yet oh so profound.

Also, I highly recommend 'everyonewhosanyone.com' and 'Editor and Preditors' site as well. There are quiet a few other sites set up to keep us 1st timers out of harms way. Just remember this, those folks have seen the truth, and now, we have as well. Use your head and employe the lesson learned from our mistakes as guide lines for a more positive direction. We all should come out of this with flying colors if we think and research the ones who give us the nod.

[Victoria]

I heartily recommend Preditors & Editors. But the "Everyonewhosanyone" site is a completely unscreened listing, and contains a large number of marginal and scam agents. I advise caution in using it. This is true of most online agent listings, including the one at Publishers Marketplace.

About refundable "deposits": this is just a ploy to make you feel better about handing over money upfront. Not only is the refund a safe promise (since the agents who promise it usually aren't very good at selling books), it's a complete reversal of standard practice. It's perfectly OK for an agent to recoup the expense of submitting a book. But he should do so after the sale. An agent who allows expenses to accrue, and reimburses himself out of your income, is reimbursed only if he succeeds on your behalf. An agent who asks for expense money upfront, with a promise to give it back if he makes a sale, is essentially being paid for failing.

- Victoria
Writer Beware
www.sfwa.org/beware/ (http://www.sfwa.org/beware/)

[absolutewrite]

It's perfectly OK for an agent to recoup the expense of submitting a book.

I would ideally take this a step further. It's perfectly *standard* for an agent to recoup the expense, but I'd still say it's not perfectly OK. To me, these expenses (postage, phone calls, copying) are part of the agent's responsibility. My agent does not charge me for any expenses (upfront or after the sale). My manager says he charges for postage, but he has yet to actually do so.

Also, watch for what these "expenses" include. Some not-so-above-board agents will charge you for ridiculous things like putting up a web page for you or sending out e-mails, and I know of one bogus screenwriting "manager" (whose name escapes me right now) who charges $20 per script he mails. It does NOT cost $20 to print and mail a script!

There are some excellent agents on Everyonewhosanyone, as well as some scammers. If you find someone there, be sure to research further, and be aware that most of those people did not want their e-mail addresses posted, so you are taking a gamble. But it's still a really amusing site! It reads like a parody...

[marky1]

Managers are sub-par unregulated agents here in LA. They all charge these fees that state-regulated agents can't by law. That's the real difference. They troll. Acceptable in fishing but not in entertainment.

[NomadPress]

Publishers Marketplace is also a good place to visit to check out agents and publishers, and place your work (books only) up for sale. It's a web site used by many publishers, agents, and writers. It's not very expensive to join and I think you can search listings for free. It's worth checking out, anyway. The URL is www.publishersmarketplace.com.

[Victoria]

>> I would ideally take this a step further. It's perfectly *standard* for an agent to recoup the expense, but I'd still say it's not perfectly OK.<<

Jenna, I agree with you in principle. When my agent and I first started out together (literally--I'd just written my first novel and she'd just started up her agency), she didn't charge any expenses back to me, and that continued for many years. Now, though, she does charge certain expenses (taken out of my income). I'm not crazy about the practice, but as you say, it's standard (your agent--like Andrew Wylie, who I think is the last agent who still charges a 10% commission to book authors--is pretty unusual) and writers need to be prepared.

Just as the charging back of expenses has become the norm, I think that at some point in the future it's going to become the norm for agents to ask for even more stuff from clients--providing all full ms. copies, for instance, or multiple copies of a nonfiction proposal. I also think it's possible that some sort of initial deposit to cover expenses may eventually become accepted practice, or else a bill-as-you-go arrangement--there are already a few established agents who ask for something like this (the difference between this sort of deposit or billing and the fees requested by questionable agents is that the established agent won't promise a refund: she actually wants to recoup her expenses, not sweeten a fee with bogus promises). I think it's deplorable, and not in the best interest of authors. And I hope I'm wrong in seeing it as a trend--but I am hearing about this sort of thing more and more with established agents, and I just have a feeling it's the way things are going to go.

Right now, though, it's still unusual enough that any money requested prior to a book sale is a warning sign.

>>Also, watch for what these "expenses" include.<<

Definitely! Expenses to be charged back should be enumerated in the contract, along with a ceiling amount (say, $50) beyond which your approval must be sought.

- Victoria
Writer Beware
www.sfwa.org/beware/ (http://www.sfwa.org/beware/)

[Dave Kuzminski]

Okay, charging back expenses has good and bad points to it. I see a few that agents should consider more seriously that might not have occurred to them just yet.

If they make it permissible by reason of them all doing it to charge for every expense an agent makes to sell a manuscript to a publisher, they run the risk of making it easier for two other groups to enter their turf.

One is already there, but is easily recognized because it consists of scammers using the fees, that legitimate agents charge, as their cover and concealment. It's more difficult pegging them as crooks when good guys also use the same procedures and policies. The situation will become worse if all agents charge such fees.

The other group is the part-time agent who works at a day job that will be encouraged to enter the market. When that happens, enough of them will eventually end up with sales that it will dilute the market for the full-time agents making it even harder for them to make a go as full-time agents.

This goes without restating all the other arguments that such expenses are routine office expenses and should be part of the agent's fixed costs of doing business and that by doing so the agent shows a willingness to take a risk based upon his judgment and ability.

[agent99]

I would just like to thank you all for a marvelous read (well, with the exception of the whining phase). I do hope the MM finale will be just as interesting as the beginning was.

I am a new writer; not yet published unless you consider the copy writing stuff and the one and only Home Owner's Association Newsletter that I wrote ( and got exellent reviews on. I was just surprised that it got read at all, much less getting rave reviews. I guess it does take some talent to make "clean up when your dog poops in the neighbor's yard" and "pay your darn dues on time" interesting.) I just had my book edited and am starting the challenging rewriting process, but have also started to research agents and publishers. So I really appreciated the information I gleaned from the nine (so far) pages of the Melonie Mills Melodrama. Pretty much what it boils down to is: Use your head, Do your research and Trust those instincts. Even good people get screwed. Look at our last presidential election; the whole US of A got the shaft. You're not alone out there.

But I would especially like to thank Victoria, who through this entire I pictured in a super-hero costume, and on her cape was written "Common Sense Woman". I respect her knowledge and I will use her suggestions. She and her business are there for a reason- to help us. We appreciate you, Victoria.

I am sorry for all those who were cheated by the notorious MM, but think what you've learned. I feel we all go through things for a reason. As writers, we use what we've experienced in our life to tell the story. And, as mentioned earlier, this has been an intriguing mystery. Many of you now have the basis for an exciting new villian in your next novel. Get your revenge on MM- use her as the bad guy and profit on her behalf!

Good Luck & Good Writing- Agent 99

[Agent99]

Yes, I forgot a word! When I was thanking Super Victoria I skipped a word, and I do apologize. I didn't want to use "melodrama" again, and I couldn't decide on what to use and spaced it. "The entire _____" (mystery, dialogue, series, process)...you choose. I just hope it doesn't distract from my sincere admiration for Victoria and her colleagues.

Agent 99

[Chaoc Kazdul]

That was interesting.

[Victoria]

Thank you, Agent 99 (very James Bond!).

Speaking of superwomen...there are three of us at Writer Beware. Ann is a redhead, another staff member who prefers not to be named is Asian, and I have light hair. And our legal counsel is named Charlie (though we like to call him Jaws). So we're Charlie's Angels.

- Victoria
Writer Beware
www.sfwa.org/beware/ (http://www.sfwa.org/beware/)

[unsure]

Just for the sake of insipid accuracy, Agent 99 is 'very Get Smart.' When I remember Melanie, I remember how I got smart.:evil

[wordwork]

Haven't checked the board in quite some time. Was
shocked to learn of the death of Melanie Mills, my former
literary agent. For those of you who have doubts about
her demise, rest assured, she is OUTTA HERE.

OUTTA - no longer in touch with her clients

HERE - anywhere but where she was once purported to be

The unfortunate folks who paid the fee to attend her seminar probably financed her burial.

BURY - to conceal or hide

My condolences to Lisa, her sister. I mean, her daughter. Uhhhhh....or was Lisa her assistant? No,
Kat was the assistant. Or was the assistant's name
Art Vandelay? That name rings a bell for some reason.
No, I think it was Kat. The assistant, I mean.

Kat or Cat - a common domestic animal long kept by human beings as a pet or for catching rats or mice

Lisa is a mystery. Sister? Daughter? Alter-ego?
Or perhaps a religious vision of some kind. Those
things happen, I hear. It could have happened like
this:

Let's say Melanie was scoping out ezboard.com. And
suddenly she got a cramp! A very bad, nasty cramp!
So, she grabs the bottle of Bepto Pismol! And she
drops it! And the pink liquid spills upon the cold tile
floor, the creamy tendrils curling this way and that
until lo and behold...Lisa appears before her very eyes!
With a message! An unearthly, bovine, message!

"Hark! You have suckered one writer too many!
Those hapless wimps are onto you! Their backbones
are becoming straighter, their writing skills are improving,
their class action suit is in the works! Save yourself,
Melanie! Abscond before the tide turns! Cloak yourself
in darkness! Fake your own death!"

"But.....HOW? That sounds impossible!"

"You pretended to be a literary agent, didn't you?"

"Well...yeah."

"Death should be a cinch! No one expects anything
out of a corpse! Your life will be a lot easier!"

"Hey! You're right! Cool beans!"

FOR THE DECEDENT:

Melanie, I'm sure you're watching this board like a
hawk; you'll probably be the first one to read this. I'd
love to correspond with you and will gladly do so upon
the receipt of $350. Send your check in a light blue legal envelope (other colors will be rejected) to my
email address (it's the same as it was when you
ATTEMPTED to con me). While you're about it, please return all copies of my manuscript. I'm in second read
at two major houses - I have REAL agent now!

Ta-Ta ! ! !

FOR OTHERS WHO'VE BEEN CONNED:

Hone your writing skills as you vent! Might as well
have fun with it!

[SchuylerDunsmore]

Maybe y'all can check the Social Security Death index and see if there are any Melanie Mills that fit her location, date of death, etc. If she's dead she's probably listed there along with her Social Security Number.

www.ancestry.com/search/r...i/main.htm (http://www.ancestry.com/search/rectype/vital/ssdi/main.htm)

"The database contains information provided by the Social Security Administration through the end of July 2003 and contains 71,091,995 names.

Ancestry.com's Social Security Death Index is generated from the U.S. Social Security Administrations Death Master File. It contains the records of deceased persons who possessed Social Security numbers and whose death had been reported to the SSA. In most cases a report of death was made in connection with Social Security death benefits."

[Agent99]

So did anyone check the SS Death Index yet? I'm afraid to. The last time I tried the SSDI it took me instead to a porn sight showing people that SHOULD have been listed on the death list. I don't particularly care to see anyone naked, and seeing "Grandma" in her full glory has caused countless nightmares since. But I guess it's nice to know there's a place where old strippers can retire. Just don't ever take me there again!

I like thinking of Victoria and her group as "Charlie's Angels"- very fitting. I just hope they still have time to save us naive writers in-between all those wardrobe changes! And I'm glad I could help another writer "Get Smart". Snicker- I actually thought that was funny. But, just so you know, my real reason for choosing my name came down to vanity (doesn't it just rule everything?)

I loved "Get Smart" growing up and am waiting for it to appear on DVD (keeping my fingers crossed). Although much of my love for the show was for Maxwell's car, which I keep thinking is a Sunbeam Tiger (but don't quote me on that). I loved Agent 99 because she was glamorous, smart and full of common sense. But I also loved Catwoman on "Batman"- feisty, evil, sexy. Who to choose? Which of my personalities to indulge? It came down to this: I look much better in a black trenchcoat and boots than that darn spandex cat suit!

And yes- I'm writing humorous mysteries. I guess TV really does mold your personality.

Keep us posted on MM. Thanks- Agent99

[cdcasserly]

Just a little addendum on Melanie as I haven't been reading this for awhile (a new clutch of high school seniors and all the angst they can bring to one classroom). An old student who is now a lawyer did a check on Lexus/Nexus and fround that our Melanie was born in 12/61; fits the info that she gave me. Lisa Mills, had NO DOB. Hmm. Also no Date of Death from the SSA. She is out there.

[betjam]

I been so busy I work full time and I'm taking 4 classes so I haven't been on in a while. Glad to here some I are getting agents. The story by wood work was amusing. I haven't been writing but I will be done in May and I will get back to it. I still send querys with hints from Victoria on my other manuscripts. You lucky ones give me hope congratulations.

[tiva001]

Melanie Mills aka Elisabeth von Hullessem was recently arrested in Canada on irregularities associated with the Banff writers conference.

[DaveKuzminski]

What's the source of your information?

[starmason]

If the above post is true and Melanie was arrested for fraud, I just have one thing to say: :rollin

[XThe NavigatorX]

www.banffcragnewspaper.co...p?id=77128 (http://www.banffcragnewspaper.com/story.php?id=77128)

is the most recent information I could find. I'll keep digging. If any of you have a stake in her, you may want to email the author of this news story.

Conference kafuffle may hurt events, warns humourist

By Geneviève Svatek

Banff Crag & Canyon — A possible scam to attract writers to Banff for a series of conferences may taint legitimate Canadian events, says an author who was scheduled to attend what was billed as the Banff Writer’s Conference.

Humourist Gordon Kirkland said Elisabeth von Hullessem asked him to conduct two workshops at a weekend conference in February.

The same organizer had asked other writers, editors and agents to speak at a conference scheduled in Banff from Oct. 23 to 25.

Banff RCMP are attempting to contact von Hullessem in their investigation of the conference -- an investigation that was prompted by its registrants.

“There aren’t that many (writers conferences) in Canada and this is going to create a lovely reputation for Canadian writers conferences,” Kirkland said sarcastically.

In conversation with von Hullessem, Kirkland said, she implied the conference would be connected to the Banff-Calgary Wordfest, a prestigious festival that has been running for eight years.

Wordfest worries Wordfest producer Anne Green said it’s distressing someone would use a writers conference to scam money from writers.

“Wordfest is established, well known and quite credible,” Green said.

“I don’t feel anyone could confuse it with the other.”

No venue had been booked but the conference’s Web site named the Rimrock Resort Hotel, the Timberline Inn and The Banff Centre as possible venues.

“The reality of a conference taking place is nil,” said Const. Frank Lenarcic of the Banff RCMP.

Registration fees totaled more than $1,000 and did not include accommodation.

“That’s high. Most conference registration fees range from $200 to $400 for a three-day workshop,” Kirkland said.

Writers conferences attract unpublished writers, promising them one-on-one contact with agents and editors.

“Most people who attend writers conferences are people who would eventually like to be writers. It’s really unfortunate someone would take advantage of those people,” he said.

Investigation ongoing. The RCMP began an investigation on the conference in late August when registrants expressed concerns about von Hullessem’s intent.

“We did have some conversation with her at that time but so as not to compromise the integrity of our investigation we’re not prepared to release any more details because our investigation is preliminary in nature,” Lenarcic said.

A message on the conference Web site asking registrants to contact Lenarcic was posted last Wednesday (Oct. 8) .

“The reason it’s posted is so we can contact the registrants and speak to them as to what the circumstances were involving their registration for the conference. We’re attempting to collect as much information as we can to determine what criminal offences may have been committed,” Lenarcic said.

“If the information warrants charges being laid that will certainly be considered,” he said.

Von Hullessem’s whereabouts had not been determined as of late last week.

[DaveKuzminski]

So far, I haven't seen any conclusive proof that these two individuals are one and the same. Until then, it would be safer to assume that there are two individuals, one of whom could still be on the loose. That is if the other one has actually been apprehended. Even that appears to be a conclusion without any firm basis.

[tiva001]

See Times Colonist newspaper Nov 1, 2003, Section B, Page 2.

[SavannahL]

This is a tantalizing post, but could you please include a link? My perusal of the Times Colonist online turned up nothing, and I'd venture to guess a majority of the people posting in this forum do not subscribe to the Times Colonist. ;)

[tiva001]

This will be my last post on this subject. I encountered this news group while doing research on a woman that befriended an acquaintence. Elisabeth von Hullessem (Melanie Mills when in the US) is in custody in Canada and anyone with bonefied complaints should work through their local enforement agencies.

[Kuorisama]

I've been keeping up with this thread to see how it turns out. I have no stake in the outcome; I was just hoping that the woman was brought to justice.

I went to Times Colonist to find the article. Took me about five minutes. But, since someone asked, here's the link:
www.canada.com/search/sto...9f416a8228 (http://www.canada.com/search/story.aspx?id=bb7d4ba7-404e-4110-bdd8-cc9f416a8228)

It doesn't mention Melanie Mills, but it does say that Elisabeth is wanted in the US and under 15 different names. So, it might be her.

Good luck all; I hope you get justice out of this.;)

[Kuorisama]

This elaborates on the other story:
www.canada.com/search/sto...b124155c26 (http://www.canada.com/search/story.aspx?id=b2048408-93b1-4096-99d1-63b124155c26)

Didn't edit the above post because I'm being lazy. :D

[noelschutz]

Here is information on the officer in charge. I have written him and asked him whether Melanie, Lisa or Kat Baker are amoung the names used and let him know, if he hasn't been notified already, about Melanie Mills and her clients interest.

Constable Frank Lenarcic, who is heading the investigation, at 403-762-2228 or frank.lenarcic@rcmp-grc.gc.ca.

This information is from the website of Canadian Booksellers.

Apparently this woman also was sponsoring an autistic conference which is of interest as Melanie once told me she had an autistic child and was from Canada originally.

In the ad for the Banf Writer's Conference she used the following address:

Name: E. von Hullessem Phone number: 403-762-3334 E-mail address: hullmtn@telus.net Website: castlemtnretreat.tripod.com (http://castlemtnretreat.tripod.com)

She also on her website had the email mystique@telus.net.

Mystique, indeed.

Noel

[RottenLuckWillie]

Thanks to all of you who are staying current with this thread and updating the rest of us! It is much appreciated and I hope Melanie Mills, if this Canadian connection is real, gets her underwear starched.

[brightm]

If Melanie is back out there doing business, then perhaps the people who are working with her ought to notify the authorities. She's not just wanted by her scammed clients. Police are lookin for her dead butt too.

[betjam]

It excites me to even think it might be her.;)

[RottenLuckWillie]

8o Yeah, me too, for some perverse reason.

[writingal]

Have any of you contacted the journalist who wrote the newspaper article to say that Melanie Mills might be this scam artist?

[RottenLuckWillie]

If read it right, there's a previous post yesterday or day before, saying that someone had talked to RCMP abou that.

[noelschutz]

I had a reply from the RCMP saying they were aware of the Mills case and asked for my phone number to call me. Since I live in Taiwan, I gave them my buddy's number in Edmunton at the University of Alberta. No reply so far. Noel

[kcarpenter7]

It's official. "Melanie" is in jail in Canada. I heard it from the North Myrtle Beach (in SC) police department this afternoon. If you have been scammed and haven't filed charges, you can call them to find out who to file charges with. The officer didn't give me too much information because they don't want to mess up their case, but I found out her real name. Ready for this? It's Roswitha Elizabeth Von Meerscheidt-Huellessem. How's that for a pen name? She may not make it back to SC because Canada has first dibs on her, then Arkansas, where she faces felony charges. But if she does make it back to the US, maybe we should all show up for her court hearing. Wouldn't that be a nice surprise for her?!

[brightm]

Looks like I get to be number 200!..lol..Got a call this afternoon from the detective in North Myrtle Beach. He says Melanie has been caught in Canada. He says getting her here from Canada won't be easy and when and if it does happen Arkansas will get priority because of the number of felonies they have on her. Now he told me he'd been in contact with the editor (i believe that's what he said) of this website. Canadian police sent him via email the article about her arrest but it didn't open properly so they're supposedly sending him it by fax and he's going to try and get it on this site.
For those of you who might worry it's her making this contact well anything can be true, but I did call this detective way back when by way of the police departments. Took me a few tries then to find which precinct he was with. So as far as that time he is legit. I believe the man who contacted me today was in fact the same man. He told me they knew her real name now, (didn't ask because I was on the way out the door to pick my kids up from school and didn't have time), and that she was pulling her scams in Canada and still in the U.S. under a different name other than Melanie. So there's some news..


Brightm

[brightm]

well so much for number 200..lmao...I might not have been able to break this news, but it sure is nice to see someone else has the same info from the same person as me. YAY! And yes. It would be a priceless moment to show up at her trial....sigh

[XThe NavigatorX]

Wow. Someone should write a TV movie about all this.

[kcarpenter7]

It IS Melanie. The cops positively identified her with photos. See page 10 for more details.

[noelschutz]

The name Von Meerscheidt-Huellessem comes from that of an old noble family originally going back to Peter von Meerscheid genannt Hillesheim who married in 1487. The Hillesheim branch died out, but the others migrated to the Baltics and have come down to this day, even in North America. The progenitor of this branch was Heinrich von Merscheid gen. Hillesheim and the branch or sub-branch is the von Meerscheidt Hullessem family (with an ulaut for the "u" which, as in my name schutz, is often spelled "u" or "ue". Variants of the name are Hullesem, Hyllessem, etc.

The U.S patriarch would seem to be ARTHUR CARL WILHELM GUSTAV A. A. VON MEERSCHEIDT VON HULLESSEM, Arthur Meerscheidt von Hullessem, a young German-Austrian officer who married AMANDA KAROLINE VON ROSENBERG on 9 Nov 1850 in Nassau Farm, , Fayette, Texas. They had a number of children who use the surname Meerscheidt and they are prominent in Texas (a Grange, San Antonio, etc.) and also New Mexico. There is a Meerscheidt House Bed and Breakfast Inn in La Grange, Texas and a Meerscheidt Center in New Mexico. The Meerscheidt and Rosenberg families are still prominent in the area and a 1998 minutes of the Rosenberg family indicated that Leo Meerscheidt announced that a Meerscheidt Family History Book is available from his brother, Paul Meerscheidt.

This might be the place to find out the origin of our Roswitha Elizabeth -- Deep in the Heart of Texas. I have not been able to find other families of this name in North America and have not traced them down to the present, but a brief check of Ancestors.com, Genealogy.com and the LDS site familysearch.com only comes up with folks that seem to be from this Texas family. Hmmm... Noel

[writingal]

What is Melanie Mills' North Myrtle Beach connection? I am from Myrtle Beach and haven't seen anything about her in the local daily paper.

[writingal]

I just went back in the posts and found the North Myrtle Beach connection. Strange that the local media hasn't picked up on this.

[marky48]

Nice work. I'm a genealogist too, specializing in New England.

[pacwriter]

I met the lady in North Myrtle beach. she owns or did own a couple of condos.
Said she was from California, her daughter was to join her and to my understanding did some weeks after I met her the one time.

Guess I was lucky in that she did not scam me. She was my "agent" for about a year.

[vstrauss]

Well, folks, I'm eating my words. I talked with the RCMP last night, and they confirm that Melanie Mills was an alias used by Elisabeth von Hullessem during her residence in South Carolina. She was engaged in all kinds of fraud, not just literary, and is wanted on two warrants in Arkansas and one in Missouri. It seems very likely she'll do time, if not in Canada, then in Arkansas, which has dibs on her if she's extradited.

Hooray!

- Victoria
Writer Beware
www. (http://www.)

[marky48]

Good news. Watch where you go these days pac. There's more of them.

[RottenLuckWillie]

I emailed the RCMP and got a response. Supposedly they are going to call me for additional info. I'll report what I hear. This is too good/bad to be true, huh?

[XThe NavigatorX]

What they say about the mounties must be true. They always get their (wo)man. :lol

Though the bad news is if she's stuck out of the country, most of you won't be able to sue her to recover any of your money. Not that'd you'd be able to get back any anyway.

[noelschutz]

Note the following newspaper article:

Madison County: Canadian police arrest fugitive
Published in The Weekly Vista - Indexed on Oct 29, 2003 Relevance:
Posted on Wednesday, October 29, 2003 A fugitive who jumped bond in 1999 after being charged with faking her mother's death and later trying to run over the woman, has been arrested in Canada, the Madison County sheriff's office reported. Police in Victoria, British Columbia, arrested Lisa Roswitha Hackney, 49, on Tuesday, Madison County sheriff's Capt. Robert Boyd said. Canadian police arrested Hackney on several charges related to charity fraud and hot checks, Boyd said. Hackney filed false documents in Madison County Probate Court on Nov. 3, 1999, saying her mother, Greta Von Huellessen, had recently died, Boyd said.

This is Madison County, Arkansas. Melanie wrote me once that she grew up from 2 to 20 in Canada and Germany, so her family roots may go back to the German, not the Texas, Meerscheidt-Huellessems. She also sent me, in 2001, samples of submission packet information in which she had a write up of a novel by "Elisabeth von Hull" entitled THE SINS OF MY MOTHER which featured a woman whose mother faked her death in Germany (sound familiar?) and then came back and tried to kill her daughter (seems like it was the other way around!). The blurb said it was based on actual life experiences of the author--indeed it seems to have been!

Was she married to a Hackney or is it just another alias?

[betjam]

that her mother shot her father for molesting them. She said she hated her mother for it. She said her mother said he shot himself but Melanie said she didn't believe it.
She said her dad was kinder to her.
Maybe this explains her her sickness or she loves to tell stories.

[noelschutz]

You can keep up with news of the trials with the local Banff newspaper. She went to court, but it was delayed for her to get a lawyer until November 11th. They had better not let her out on bail -- :lol

www.banffcragnewspaper.co...p?id=79311 (http://www.banffcragnewspaper.com/story.php?id=79311)

[reph]

The fictitious writers' conference at Banff is still being advertised at this website:

castlemtnretreat.tripod.com/ (http://castlemtnretreat.tripod.com/)

[noelschutz]

On a more humorous note, the following notice is on a website about flying saucers and such.

www.rense.com/ufo6/ev.htm (http://www.rense.com/ufo6/ev.htm)

In March 1952, Rudolf von Meerscheidt-Hullessem sent a letter to the Canadian Embassy in Bonn stating he had developed a flying saucer capable of speeds and altitudes limited only by the strength of the metals used in the saucer's construction. In exchange for his invention, Rudolf wanted $100,000 and a salary of $1,500 per month tax free and Canadian citizenship....In the end, the Canadian government declined Rudolf' s offer but it is not known what the United States did.

I wonder if it is a close relative....Noel :(

[Rscribe]

Does anyone know if the S. Carolina authorities have ever run down the physical address from which the e-mail from 'Kat Baker' about Melanie's death originated? I know it can be obtained from the server, but only with the proper authorization. Also, is there any info available about the process of recovering manuscripts, etc., that were in the hands of the agency?

[vstrauss]

Rscribe, I can't answer the question about Kat Baker (though I'd bet that e-mail originated from British Columbia). But when I spoke in July with the detective in North Myrtle Beach, he told me that the trash receptacles outside or near her former office were filled with paper. It looks as if she simply discarded all or most materials. I don't think there's much chance that anyone will get manuscripts back.

- Victoria
Writer Beware
www.writerbeware.com/ (http://www.writerbeware.com/)

[tiva001]

For what it is worth, the posting from "Kat Baker" was made during the same week that Elisabeth von Hullessem re entered Canada after working in the US on a green card.

[RottenLuckWillie]

Each bit of news only makes this more bizarre. 0] When you go back and read the posts, it reads like a bad tv movie. How in hell did I ever get messed up with lady? I wish I could tell you, then I'd know.
rlw

[Kuorisama]

It may read like a bad tv movie, but I bet (to the screen writer who bangs it out) it would make some money. Still something of a tragedy but less so than the Jessica Lynch and Elizabeth Smart movies. People might think of it as a break from the current fare.

[reph]

Yes, Melanie is trash. But that's not what I meant.

Victoria wrote: "[The detective] told me that the trash receptacles outside or near her former office were filled with paper."

Presumably that material was preserved as evidence?

[Rscribe]

Hmm--the reports of paper in the trash receptacles is very interesting. IF N. Myrtle Beach detectives did go through the stuff looking for evidence, & IF they found manuscripts, I'm glad the cop in my novel was intelligent, handsome, & lovable.

[XThe NavigatorX]

Has there been an influx of homeless people from South Carolina publishing first novels? :lol

[RottenLuckWillie]

The RCMP said they would call. Haven't heard anything yet. Anybody else?

[absolutewrite]

I can't believe nobody told me this was going on!

For goodness sake, when something as exciting as this happens, somebody email me! I haven't checked the bewares board in about two weeks, and missed the first round of celebrations.

But now that I have arrived, may I suggest a second round of celebrations? :D

Champagne all around! May Melanie send apology notes to all of the writers she misled... from her dank, cold jail cell. :lol

Thank you to everyone who told us what was happening, and thanks to Victoria, who works tirelessly behind the scenes on cases like this.

[absolutewrite]

Hey brightm, would you e-mail me at Jenglatzer @ aol.com, please?

[cdcasserly]

Speaking of Melanie's trash... does anyone know her real address, residence and/or business, in N. Myrtle? When I visited 4009 N. Ocean Blvd in July, it sure was a far far cry from what she described to me in our many phone /email conversations. Was that her business address or just a mail drop?

As far as the Kat Baker Story, my guess now (isn't hindsight wonderful?) is that she was "born" in mid-May when the messages on this board came to her attention and she emailed her clients with this defensive letter and her talk of "working only with those clients who trusted her." that's when she first went to Europe because of a 'sick relative."

[RottenLuckWillie]

The only addresses I had for her was the 4009 and a PO box. I did some poking around on the Horry County (North Myrtle Beach) website using the 4009 address. I found some interesting/suspicious things in the property records that made me think she owned the 4009 property, but that is certainly not confirmed. I also found where she was 'renting' condos on couple of North Myrtle Beach tourism sites. All the phone numbers etc. matched up. Now that we have the Von Hustlewoman :p name, I should try it again. I will when I get a chance.
rlw

[betjam]

I hope Mindblowing saw this he was so upset about her
He would be glad she was caught.

[betjam]

Thanks for all your work on this Melanie deal. I think you did a lot in keeping things open and moving in the investagation.

[betjam]

I replied to a message with your name and I thought it would go under that message the ubove message is for you. Hooray to you

[brightm]

absolutewrite (Jenna), I sent you an email, but you haven't gotten back with me. Was wondering if it even made it to you. Have to admit, I'm pretty curious. If you didn't get it, post a message here and I'll try again.

brightm

[noelschutz]

Melanie is to appear in court Monday (today) and there is a nice write up at the following website:

www.globeandmail.com/serv...int/Front/ (http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20031122.wbanff1121/BNPrint/Front/)

There is a 1999 photo from Arkansas of her there, so I now have two photos of her if anyone is interested (but you can download the one on the above site).

Some interesting comments about how she appeared to folks in S.C. and Banff. Also that her mother and father (the latter since deceased) immigrated to Canada ten years prior to the Arkansas incident where he tried to run her mother down. Her mother sold off holdings and returned to Germany apparently, and was a wealthy countess. So enjoy reading it. We will see about the court hearing shortly.

Noel

[noelschutz]

Typo, so change to: "...where [s]he tried to run her [mother] down..." --Noel

[marky48]

I may add for those who poo poo writer beware, being quoted as a expert on these matters by major newspapers in two countries is pretty good evidence of major watchdog status and legitimacy. Meiners better watch out because the reporters will visit both places and that doesn't bode well for one: Meiners.

[RottenLuckWillie]

Hooray for VS! Nice job. I saw the picture. It's her. Such a psycho!
rlw

[noelschutz]

There is an ebay add for bidding (starting at 10,000) for the book SINS by L. S. Thomas (pen name for Melanie Mills, etc.).

cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI...tegory=377 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3568464068&category=377)

Is this a joke? It is headed with FUGITIVE VON HULLESSEM/HACKNEY/MILLS and the description reads:

A woman with 4 identities sensationalized in the news media throughout North America.

"Sins" by L.R.Thomas.

Hackney becomes a fugitive after a disagreement with her mother, Countess von Hullessem (read "Sins" for the details) in November, 1999. She establishes a new life as literary agent Mills, in North Myrtle Beach, SC, then finally returns to her native Canada seeking sanctuary and protection from the United States. von Hullessem wants to share the slendor [sic] of Banff with writers by throwing the Banff Writers Conference. Location and famous literary agents and editors were not enough to entice writers to attend the conference; von Hullessem learned the hard way.

Winning bidder will also receive:

invitation to a 1 hour lunch with the author, the first week of May 2004 in beautiful Victoria BC. Background check of buyer will be required.

Autographed "Sins" novel and photograph of author.

10 page excerpt of her humourous autobiography entitled "Damsel in Distress".

This looks like a lampoon! --Noel

[emeraldcite]

she's probably trying to raise money to post bail...

[vstrauss]

IMO the eBay thing is the real thing...In addition to her other frauds, "Mills" ran scams on eBay (I heard from someone who she took for over $1,000), so she is familiar with eBay as a venue. Note that the seller is registered in Canada; note also the sympathetic description of the attempted murder of Mom, and of what happened in Banff (gee, Ms. Alias just wanted to make writers happy!). I'm betting this is Mills/von Hullessem/Hackney herself, trying to make a buck from her newfound notoriety.

But the funniest part...Wanna know who the publisher of SINS is? C'mon, guess....

PUBLISHAMERICA!!!

Is that a hoot or what?

- Victoria
Writer Beware
www.writerbeware.com/ (http://www.writerbeware.com/)

[FM St George]

it's almost... impossible to comment on that...

:lol

the sad thing is that it's got to be one of the WORST eBay auctions I've ever seen - thank GAWD no one's actually bid on it...

if I were PA I'd be pulling her book off the site fast... but then, probably not...

:b

[RottenLuckWillie]

This is so funny. I've been thinking of sending her a telegram in jail. Several things have crossed my mind. Maybe a bill? Any ideas from you - all?:evil
rlw

[James D Macdonald]

Hey, do you think that PA is going to put Melanie/Elizabeth in their Up In Lights section?

[RottenLuckWillie]

:rollin Oh yeah, I think that's a given. 'Cept the marquee is getting a bit faded, don't you think?
rlw