A day job [Archive] - Absolute Write Water Cooler

katiemac

03-08-2005, 08:22 AM

Lel, I'll be in a similar situation, but I still have the majority of my college career ahead of me. I think in a case like this, since you don't want to teach, it might depend on location. Are there any publishing houses or agents nearby you can intern with? I had to do research like this for one of my classes, and there were quite a few opportunities available to college students as internships to editors, assistants, that sort of thing.

Your English degree should help you there (most pub. houses I saw weren't very picky about degrees) and then you can even learn better the inside of the trade when it comes to agenting/editors.

I know you didn't want to teach, but a lot of classes at my college are taught by graduate students (don't know if that's what you want to pursue) but there are also other opportunities available in conducting and mediating reseach studies, etc.

preyer

03-08-2005, 09:11 AM

yeah, i was going to suggest some form of editing, but that seems covered in the post. maybe you should stay in college and collect another useful degree, like 'philosophy', lol. j/k. actually, with a degree, that's a pretty good credential if you want to be a novel proofreader, eh? that's something you can do on the side, don't have to have a boss so you can measure your commute to work with a yardstick, do in your underwear with drinking captain morgan's, and cash in pretty easy paychecks.

or you can work in a factory. nah.

ever thought about a life of crime?

dancing?

picking up cans on the side of the road?

re-write a thousand 'humour' articles and sell them to a newspaper, because they eat that crap up?

'website developer.' that one always cracks me up. that's not far from saying, 'i don't have a real job, but yet it's barely legitimate enough to keep my g/f from harping on my constant poverty.'

operate a huge on-line business out of your closet. helloooo, ebay.

write a book titled, 'the art of poverty.'

say your professor sexually harassed you, sue the university.

put the cocaine back in coke.

breed dogs.

open a cake store. when you're making half a G on wedding cakes, you'll forget all about that writing thing. and, hey, you still get to write 'happy whatever', so, you know, you're *still* writing....

be a critic.

put on a business suit, walk into a chinese retaurant, and tell them you're the health inspector. tell them you're there because there's been several complaints about cockroaches (cockroaches love chinese food). they'll bribe ya, trust me.

go through a mcdonald's drive thru during rush hour. order a water. the first window operator won't be able to collect any money (water's free), but won't have time to get it themselves. water also doesn't show up on their order thingies. pull up to next window and collect whatever food the guy behind you has already paid for. it's pot-luck, but free. sell food at discounted prices to homeless people. laugh at how much chaos you've just created. repeat until arrested.

sell 'authentic celebrity bath water.' you say you'd drink britney spears' dirty bath water? prove it.

tell fortunes. no skill required as long as you say, 'for entertainment purposes only.'

baby-sit.

sell gravestone insurance.

be a secret shopper or undercover store detective.

write a diet book. people are stoopid for those.

invent a backpack with wheels. (actually, that's not a bad idea if they already don't have those.)

open a porn site.

wash cars in a bikini.

two words: 'oiled boob rubdowns.' okay, that's three words, but we're not shooting for the stars here, are we?

mow lawns.

design a scrotum-friendly razor so i don't keep using my wife's lady gillette (shh, don't tell).

be a private investigator.

buy junk at garage sales and sell them for twice the price at flea markets (hey, don't laugh, i don't know how many thousands of dollars i've made this way).

clean houses. seriously. people will pay big bucks for that stuff.

'landscape.' of course, you shouldn't be afraid of real work.

learn spanish. again, trust me on this one. just learn spanish and you can write your own paycheck.

start a viable third political party. call it 'the american freedom' party. accept donations.

sell girl scout cookie rip-offs. these people's taste buds are so dead by now they won't know the difference, anyway.

take ordinary items, put a fancy package around them, and ask a ridiculous amount of money in hopes some sucker with too much money buys it.

become robin hood.

steal lawn furniture/grills, sell on ebay.

open a church. accept donations. open a website. claim that for just $19.95, you can put your hands on your monitor and you'll send them the power of gawd and fulfill their wishes. 'for entertainment purposes only.'

offer to chew other people's fingernails.

learn to make curtains, sell for outrageous sums of money. use cheapest materials available. claim to make best curtains in the world.

walk into a trendy nightclub and claim to be royalty. use bad accent. say you forgot purse/wallet and need cab fare back to homeland. (helps if you're very attractive.)

find osama.

start 'philosophy students against terrorists' campaign. accept donations.

move to sweden, claim to be an artist.

do you really *need* two kidneys?

Umbhali

03-08-2005, 09:25 AM

Firstly, hi all - I've been lurking on and off here for a while, catching up on Uncle Jim's mega-thread. I'm a pro TV writer in Cape Town, SA and while I earn a fairly decent living from the fast food world that is TV writing, novels have always been my first love, hence my presence in your midsts.

As to day jobs - depends on whether you want to make a decent living or just get by. If money's not that important, I highly recommend bookselling. For 5 years after I decided to abandon my fledgling law career and turn to writing, I earned not a cent from the scripted word. Selling the scripted word of others paid my bills. And although sometimes I felt like an addict working in a chemist (drugstore?), it's ultimately a great environment - you get staff discounts on the books, get to meet sales reps who can at least help you when you approaching publishing houses and, depending on the size of the shop you work at, you may even get to meet some established writers.

And I don't know about the US, but here, there are hundreds of freaking nutjob customers - my first success was a short film called "Killing Customers". Oh, and there's the added bonus of canceling orders or of hiding and misshelving the books of authors who treat you like sh*t.

tjwriter

03-08-2005, 09:29 AM

Actually, preyer's list reminded of something I thought about a couple of month's ago. Your one strange man, you know that right?

I would really like to open a gourmet coffeeshop/internet cafe in the town I live in. We're small, but a major tourist area because of our "historic value." I use the term loosely because I still for the life of me cannot figure out why people still keep coming here for a taste of failed utopia. Twice.

Anyway. We have a lil ole coffee place where the old folk go for morning discussion and coffee, sort of. The movie theatre does coffee too, but on a small scale.

Funding is the biggest issue. I could probably get grants, but that takes some effort. Still it's a nice idea. Wouldn't need many employees. On quiet afternoons during the week, write my next piece of fiction. Sounds good doesn't it. *sighs*

zornhau

03-08-2005, 12:04 PM

What's your chosen genre?
Suggest you pick a day job/career which will enhance your life experience and provide useful material for your fiction.
perfect job for a young writer who only needs to make enough to live on??
This concerns me, having done jobs like that.http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/smilies/EmoteHeadbang.gif
Beware numbing jobs which leave you too burned out to write. You might actually be more prolific while on a demanding career track.
As a recent graduate, you have this fleeting window when you can be recruited into an organisation's graduate training programme without any specific experience.
There's a lot to be said for seeing the business world from the inside. Also, if you pick the right career track, such as PR, journalism, or techwriting, you will get to hone your writing skills on somebody else's time, not something you can do with a disposable job.
I've recently graduated from college, yet all I really want to do is write fiction.
Whoaaa there!
I'm not saying it's not possible to live off writing straight out of college.

However, most writers don't achieve success until their late 30s. Charles Stross (who knows about such things) reckons:...the ability to get under someone else's skin (to whatever extent) is much harder to come by and usually only arrives once we've kicked around the world for a few decades.

http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blosxom.cgi/2005/02/27#writing-109

If you're going to have to wait 15 years anyway, you might as well make some money and get as wide a perspective on the world as possible.
Good luck. (Wish I had your relative youth.)

Z

Jamesaritchie

03-08-2005, 12:35 PM

I've recently graduated from college, yet all I really want to do is write fiction. I know I can't live off of writing fiction, at least not until I write and sell a couple of novels. Yet I was wondering if anyone had any advice on a job I could get that would leave me enough time to continue to write. My degree was in English so I don't have a ready made career waiting for me(since I don't want to become a teacher). Can anyone think of a really perfect job for a young writer who only needs to make enough to live on??

I don't think it matters, as long as it's a job that doesn't drain all your time and energy. The more of either a day job demands, the less you'll have for writing.

Someone once told me, "Never take a job you'll be afraid to quit." I think it's good advice.

The ideal job, to my mind, is one that pays enough to let you get by, and that has medical coverage, but that doesn't demand too much time or energy.

I think my middle son has a perfect job for a writer. He's night manager at a hotel, and of the eight hours he works, he's free to write at least six of them. He doesn't make a lot of money, but he makes enough to pay his way, with a bit left over for fun, and a bit left over for a rainy day.

oswann

03-08-2005, 01:27 PM

I left university and swore that I would never teach.

Since that fateful day I have spent the majority of my professional life teaching. However, there are things to be said for teaching, especially teaching English, as I do.

Working with the language everyday keeps my chops up. I feel fine tuned and ready to write at any given moment. Having said that, teaching requires a lot of time so the given moments can sometimes be few and far between.

Also being a writer is something you don't retire from. You write until you are dead. Take in all life experience and pace yourself to in for the long haul. :Thumbs:

Os.

oswann

03-08-2005, 01:30 PM

Post Scriptum

Preyer, I'm impressed with the list. If only you used your powers for good... ;)

Os.

BlueTexas

03-08-2005, 05:18 PM

I say look for the job you've cast a current character in--and live somewhere you've never visited.

James D. Macdonald

03-08-2005, 05:28 PM

I know I can't live off of writing fiction, at least not until I write and sell a couple of novels.

Ya mean "a couple of novels a year," right?

Anyway, to answer your question: The job I found was "sailor." Any time you're not on watch or otherwise working your time is your own, and writing will definitely fill that time.

azbikergirl

03-08-2005, 05:52 PM

When writing is in you, you can make time for it no matter what you do for a living. I'm a software engineer working for a medium-sized, publicly traded, fairly demanding company. There've been times that I worked so much that I barely got adequate sleep, but for the most part I work 40-45 hours per week. I use a PDA and write during my lunch breaks, then sync with my PC when I get home. (And the pay is good so I don't have to struggle to make ends meet while I'm pursuing my dream of writing. :Thumbs: )

I started in the industry as a technical writer (there's another idea if you're good with computers or other technology). I got paid a decent salary to write, plus had medical and 401k and all that.

maestrowork

03-08-2005, 06:49 PM

If you want to stay with writing, become a copy editor or copy writer or magazine writer or ...

Teach -- community college, university... etc. BUT NOT elementary/high school. The jobs are hard to get, they work you like a dog, and give you peanuts for pay.

Or receptionist to a spa or chiropractor or corporate office... might gives you some time in between to take notes for your work or even write it.

Executive assistant (formerly known as secretary).

Start your own business.

Do temp work (work your a** off to make money, then use the down time to write).

pepperlandgirl

03-08-2005, 08:04 PM

I was going to get an MFA, but it looks like all of the schools will reject me (already got two rejections and those were the less prestigious universities. I don't have high hopes for the other two). So come May, I'm going to be floundering around like a fool because I always thought I'd go to grad school and now the joke is on me...and I'm going to start crying again. heh.

I live in the Los Angeles area and I would love, absolutely love, to work in publishing. I interned with Red Hen Press for about six months, and I adored the experience. When I graduate in May, I'll have a BA in English with a minor in creative writing. Does anybody know what I have to do to find a job in publishing? I've also been working the past 4 years as a tutor (which usually, to my chagrin, amounts to copy-editing).

mistri

03-08-2005, 08:10 PM

It's different for everyone and every job, so I'm going to go through my personal experiences.

Working in a bookshop gave me plenty of reading time (when it was quiet in the shop in the mornings) and hefty discounts on books. I learned a lot about other authors here, and what made readers want to buy their books.

Working in book publishing (as an editorial assistant) gave me an invaluable insight into the editing process - from picking out slush manuscripts to doing line edits on books and writing cover copy. However the work load (taking manuscripts home at the weekends and evenings), plus editing other people's work all day left me too tired to get much writing done myself.

Working part-time as a proof reader gave me time, mostly, which I thought I'd fill with writing. It was easier to write on the days I made an effort, but usually I'd reward myself on my days off (for working so hard the previous days!) by going shopping and napping. Ooops.

Now I'm working full-time again in magazines (production). My mag is quite well organised, so there's little overtime. Plus, it sucks less of my creativity away (compared to working in book publishing). Furthermore, I seem to be more disciplined as well. Whether it's getting up to go to work each day, or that I've matured, I just don't know. I'm not complaining. I've written over 50k this year (not much to some, but a lot for me).

Don't make assumptions about what jobs will leave you the energy for writing and which ones won't. You might need to try them to find out for sure.

mistri

03-08-2005, 08:13 PM

Alphabeter

03-08-2005, 08:13 PM

Try everything on Preyer's list.
Get arrested,
write a best-seller,
go on Oprah or Judge Judy/Joe/Milian (people's Court)
tell everyone about AW and get a cut of the "profits" from Jenna.
Give absolutely (heh!) no credit to Preyer and claim him as a "separate personality free to do his own thing" when pressed.

OR

Deliver diabetes testing supplies and blue pills to actors.

Make candles for snowy states. Make red and blue specialties!

Grow tomacco. Start with tobacco and tomatoe seeds and mix while planting. Hey it worked on the Simpsons!

Try anything Homer did on The Simpsons.

Write a book about spelunking in haunted houses. Take lots of pictures.

Make rubber bracelets for writers. Green for politicals, Yellow for humorists, Pink for Romance, Black for Horror, Blue for Skiffy, Red for Action, Silver for Medical, Gold for True Crime, Brown for Biography...

List (c) The Super Snarzler :D
:Sun:

pepperlandgirl

03-08-2005, 08:18 PM

Get as much relevant experience as you can (whether it's copy-editing, bookselling, or office work (junior jobs can have a lot of admin)), persevere, and develop a thick skin for rejection. It's a competitive market.

Right now the only thing I feel qualified for is hiding in bed for the rest of my life. But thanks for your advise.

JanaLanier

03-08-2005, 08:31 PM

maestrowork

03-08-2005, 08:35 PM

Yeah, find a job you absolutely hate and you can't stand the coworkers... that would motivate you to write the most gritty, gut-wrenching, angtsy stories. ;)

Otherwise you'd end up devoting all your time on the job. At least that's what I did -- I liked my job, and it cut into my writing time and mindset...

Nivvie

03-08-2005, 08:38 PM

What's your chosen genre?
Suggest you pick a day job/career which will enhance your life experience and provide useful material for your fiction.

However, most writers don't achieve success until their late 30s. Charles Stross (who knows about such things) reckons:...the ability to get under someone else's skin (to whatever extent) is much harder to come by and usually only arrives once we've kicked around the world for a few decades.

http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blosxom.cgi/2005/02/27#writing-109

If you're going to have to wait 15 years anyway, you might as well make some money and get as wide a perspective on the world as possible.
Good luck. (Wish I had your relative youth.)

Z

I agree with this.

Day jobs are hugely important for most writers. If you really want to be a good writer you have to experience as much of life as possible, be forced to spend time with a whole load of characters who you may not like, but will be great fiction fodder.
Think of all the weirdos there are out there to meet and deal with. That's priceless living.

Charles Dickens understood poverty and expressed hardship in a believeable manner as his middle class family fell from grace and he spent a chunk of his childhood filling jars with blacking in a stinking factory.
He probably wouldn't have been the writer he was without that experience. The list goes on.

I know it sucks thinking about waiting years to make money, but I recently read an article on ten writers who all had novels publised under 30, and only a few of them were still making a living out of it ten years later. It seemed that they just had one good book in them, whereas those that have to wait get the chance to build up a decent stock of ability.
I'd rather struggle now and be comfortable when older, than have a burst of success and then have to crash land back into the world of day jobs at a later age.

mistri

03-08-2005, 09:01 PM

Right now the only thing I feel qualified for is hiding in bed for the rest of my life. But thanks for your advise.

Don't worry - I feel like that a lot. When I was working in bookselling, after completing my English degree, it took me a year and a lot of rejections to get a job in publishing.

johnnycannuk

03-08-2005, 09:11 PM

Ok, from your list I have actualluy done the following:

or you can work in a factory. nah.

2 summers at a foundary making engine blocks for AMC then Chrysler. Lovely way to turn your brain off and start smoking because you're bored.

dancing?

On night, in University, on a dare, for one of my female house-mate's birthday. Made $150 bucks for 20 minutes of "work", got drunk and got...er....lucky ;)

picking up cans on the side of the road?

Highschool. Empties are a great source of income for the poor country boy.

'website developer.' that one always cracks me up. that's not far from saying, 'i don't have a real job, but yet it's barely legitimate enough to keep my g/f from harping on my constant poverty.'

Somewhat what I do now. I'm a Software Developer and I design and make web applications. You know, like online banking and government apps.

write a book titled, 'the art of poverty.'

Still doing the research. :)

be a critic.

Come on, preyer, everybody's a critic.

baby-sit.

All my life - I'm the oldest of 6 kids.

be a secret shopper or undercover store detective.

Oh man, this was one of the BEST jobs I ever had. Ever. Of course, I wasn't about to get killed for $8.35/hr (CDN), so a fair amount of crime was witnesse with the perps going unapprehended...

mow lawns.

All through elementary and highschool. Easy with a John Deere 210 riding lawn tractor.

be a private investigator.

Along with busting shoplifters at a store, I worked two weeks undercover in a supermarket to build a case against a group of thugs stealling meat from the butcher. Turns out, the butcher was in on it.

'landscape.' of course, you shouldn't be afraid of real work.

Does working on the farm throwing hay bales, picking stones, planting wheat and ploughing count here?

start a viable third political party. call it 'the american freedom' party. accept donations.

Wow. you only have two parties? Bummer. I'm already a member of the NDP up here in the Great White North. We have like 5 federal political parties. That would not be a money maker up here. Of course, the real money would be in joining the Liberals (ask a Canadian to explain the Sponsorship scandal).

To your list I would add:

Take out life insurance on yourself, naming your heretofore unknown twin brother "Raoul" as the sole beneficiary. Fake your own death.

Mix both work and play: put a personal add in your local art newspaper as an "Escort". As long as you remember to charge your clients GST, you're safe.

Give up all worldly goods and "live by the bowl". This is easier in California than in Ontario ;)

Tree planting in Northern Ontario or British Columbia. Hard work, good money and no place to spend it. This works best if you don't mind blackflies, deer flies, mosquitos, heat, cold, drugs, alcohol, sex in the bush and the inability to bathe or shower regularly.

Show up on a street in Toronto and claim to have no memory. Get your picture in the paper and let the donation roll in. But stay away from any reporters from the 5th Estate.

Feel free to expand my list if needed.

Mike

Julian Black

03-08-2005, 09:36 PM

Day jobs are hugely important for most writers. If you really want to be a good writer you have to experience as much of life as possible, be forced to spend time with a whole load of characters who you may not like, but will be great fiction fodder....

...but I recently read an article on ten writers who all had novels publised under 30, and only a few of them were still making a living out of it ten years later. It seemed that they just had one good book in them, whereas those that have to wait get the chance to build up a decent stock of ability.

I agree absolutely. I'm 37 years old and have worked at all kinds of jobs--receptionist, housepainter, finish carpenter, waitress, bookseller, cake decorator, delivery driver, artist, and more ill-paid front-counter jobs than I want to think about. Every last one of them has taught me things about people and the world around me, even though I was often too tired, annoyed, discouraged, and cranky to realize it at the time.

I always managed to find time to write, no matter what job I had. In the last 20 years, I've written a few halfway decent things, a couple of good things, and boatloads of crap. Only in the last year have I really begun to feel like I'm maturing as a writer. I've never had this many good ideas for novels and short stories before--never. So I'm glad all my fantasies about making it as a writer never came true when I was young. I've done a lot of things and read a lot of books in the meantime, and finally it's all paying off.

shugar

03-08-2005, 10:12 PM

I guess there's a couple of different ways you could approach it.

You could find a job that you really enjoy, so that you'd be centered enough at the end of the day to write well.

Or you could find a soul-sucking position so that your work will be full of grim angst.

I dunno. Your choice.

:tongue

Haaaa! I'm currently getting both in one job, I work in a veterinary clinic.

The patients want to kill you, literally. But that can go either way in this business. Evil pets live forever and the good die young.

I don't know who is worse to deal with, the vets or the clients.:crazy:

Very interesting but mentally and physically draining work. And you have to guard your hands with your life (or else look really busy when the vet is looking for someone to restrain 'Cujo' the 120 lb nasty rottie, for blood.)

I really think there is a need for "The Complete Idiot's Guide to Working in a Veterinary Clinic."....hmm.

preyer

03-09-2005, 01:16 AM

there ya go, write a 'complete idiot's guide' to something.

dog groomer. biiig business.

lobbyist/sandwich board wearer.

be a professional at some stupid sport like card tossing.

get in the guiness book of world records.

admit yourself into an asylum.

deliver pizzas.

manufacture extension cords.

buy a dump truck, rent it out.

drive a cab.

buy a convenience store. oops, this is what i'm doing.

retire at 25 for no good reason.

walk dogs or be a pet psychologist.

two words: pet astrologer.

roof under the table, where the motto is 'you're fired before you hit the ground.'

start an online university or ministry. sell cheap diplomas and/or robes.

make your own wine and/or beer.

smuggle americans into australia.

develop fool-proof, high stakes bar bets. (that actually sounds like an interesting story, eh?)

...'the butcher did it'? lol.

Azure Skye

03-10-2005, 12:44 AM

I've recently graduated from college, yet all I really want to do is write fiction. I know I can't live off of writing fiction, at least not until I write and sell a couple of novels. Yet I was wondering if anyone had any advice on a job I could get that would leave me enough time to continue to write. My degree was in English so I don't have a ready made career waiting for me(since I don't want to become a teacher). Can anyone think of a really perfect job for a young writer who only needs to make enough to live on??

What timing! Here I am sitting at my computer polishing up my resume after finishing courses to land a "real" job (whatever that means) and I find myself in the same predicament. I just want to write full time but the reality is, I know I can't. I've been out of the work force for over a year now because of school so I'm heading to a temp agency probably tomorrow to weedle my way back in. Since I seem to want to write in the evenings, it would be ideal if I could find a day job that isn't too taxing. We'll see.

I have no real advice but I can let you know you're not alone. Here's to resumes, job hunting and pining for pen and paper. Good luck.

Azure Skye

03-10-2005, 12:48 AM

This concerns me, having done jobs like that.http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/smilies/EmoteHeadbang.gif
Beware numbing jobs which leave you too burned out to write. You might actually be more prolific while on a demanding career track.

Z

I'm going to have to agree with that. The reason I left my previous job to go to school was because it was mind numbing. My creativity packed its bags and went on holiday somewhere. I put out an APB when I finally realized it was missing. There is something about mentally challenging work, but not personally draining work, that makes my mind feel alive...sort of like math. LOL. I hate math but my mind seems to like it.

preyer

03-10-2005, 04:47 AM

up until the 28th of february when i accepted the buyout from delphi, i'd worked there doing factory work for ten and a half years. while it could be physically demanding from time to time, it was such a brainless job that it allowed me hour upon hour just to think, fantasize, daydream, etc.. there's something to be said for moronic work. it also gave me insight to whole other lifestyles i'd otherwise have had to completely guess at were i to write. anyone unable to derive anything from practically any job just isn't paying enough attention.

i've also decided that if i ever want to persue writing for a career i'll also need to maintain some kind of real work, maybe not something i'd retire doing, but just to keep me around people. i honestly believe the artists who hermitize themselves after a huge success only do themselves and their art a disservice. i think george lucas is a perfect example of how storytelling suffers once you've become disconnected with reality. further, 'talking' with people on the 'nut is a poor substitute for actual human contact, and is no better than imagining what people are like from a perch in a coffee shop/hotel lobby/park bench.

whatever job you wind-up with, look at it as an opportunity to learn. more than any skillz you may pick up, you learn about people, which is really one of the few things ever worth knowing, eh?

Dawno

03-10-2005, 10:16 AM

I used to work in the temp industry (both as a temp and later for the agency) and we were always looking for people willing to take short clerical and receptionist assignments. This might not be as true in this economy or your area but if it is you could work 3 or 4 days a week and time free to write. One thing I've noticed where I work is that the receptionists spend a lot of time in empty lobbies surfing the web. If you were doing that you could not only write but you'd meet lots of characters, uh people...just a thought.

gp101

03-10-2005, 10:38 AM

Don't think 9-5 AM. Think 9-5 PM. Or some sort of overnight job. I worked in a hotel during college doing overnights. Know what goes on in a hotel during the overnight? Not a helluva lot. Which meant I always had about 4 to 6 hours to do my homework. Hotel overnights are ideal, but even a security job at a desk, or an attendant at a parking lot, or any job overnight where you don't have to answer phones provides a lot of downtime where you can write, provided you have access to a desktop or bring in your own laptop. The hours suck, but you get used to it and they actually work in your favor. It's so damn quiet during those hours that you have few distractions as long as you avoid TV.

Jamesaritchie

03-10-2005, 06:41 PM

I agree with this.

I know it sucks thinking about waiting years to make money, but I recently read an article on ten writers who all had novels publised under 30, and only a few of them were still making a living out of it ten years later. It seemed that they just had one good book in them, whereas those that have to wait get the chance to build up a decent stock of ability.
I'd rather struggle now and be comfortable when older, than have a burst of success and then have to crash land back into the world of day jobs at a later age.

Darned few writers who sell novels earn a living from it ever, at any age, let alone ten years later. The average selling novelist earns only $12,000 a year, and that isn't much of a living.

I think a day job may be important when you're very young, but I don't find many full-time writers become hermits in any sense of the word. I find I have far more time and energy to interact with other people, to travel, to do things I couldn't do with a 9-5 day job, to get involved with various things and organizations, as a full-time writer than I ever did as a full-time worker.

I've found the life of most full-time workers is far more constrained, far more limited, than that of a full-time writer.

Writing just doesn't take that many hours a day to do, and it's something that can be done anywhere, and during the hours you have available for it.

And those very few writers who do become hermits seem to do very well for themselves, probably because, as Flannery O'Conner said, "any novelist who could survive her childhood had enough to write about for a lifetime.

I think this is true, especially if you consider "childhood" as those years right up to being an adult.

Being a full-time writer doesn't have to mean becoming a hermit, and usually means the exact opposite, though I haven't actually seen any hermit writers who didn't get the job done very well.

Mistook

03-11-2005, 09:25 AM

I would say, if you're under twenty five, and living with your parents, stay there! ...that is if the arrangement is tolerable to you and your parents. Such an arrangement can free you from most of the crushing bills that will hit once you "get out into the real world" and give you a real shot at finding your voice as a novelist while you're still young.

As for employment, if all you need is bare survival, I highly (HIGHLY) recommend the local library. If all you need is part time work, you can be a page, which offers incredible opportunities not only to read, but to mingle with the general public. From there you can always move up to a full time position as a clerk, which pays decently.

Further, the experience you gain working in a library looks good on 1001 resume's for real careers down the line. It involves filing, and every kind of A/V equipment, also customer service, and the experience translates well into any kind of academic job. I guess it even looks good to potential agents or publishers. You really can't lose at the library.

preyer

03-11-2005, 10:46 AM

hm, not convinced cutting yourself off from human contact and the outside world is good or healthy for your spirit or art any way you slice it, heh heh. aquaintences are great for what they are, but if that's all you manage to accomplish with all that spare time, you've probably not done yourself any great favours, eh? it's not even about stealing people's stories, any of us should be competent enough to fill in the blanks without having to have a real person verify things for us, rather about being a part of the human race. that's where i find fault with these internut things, it removes real people from the equation. trust me, to know me in person is vastly different than this drivel i spout on a message board, lol.

i like the library idea. though, if possible, i'd try a nice bookstore where authors consistently stop in for signings, readings, etc.. bear in mind these are usually pretty tough to get into, requiring actual literary tests as part of the application (at least the one i tried for many, many years ago, though this wasn't one of your 'books-a-million' mega-stores, either).

i'm seeing two different approaches here, the job that supposedly gets you 'in' the business and garners some kind of inside track, and the job that supposedly exposes you to real-life and those kinds of experiences. personally, i prefer the latter. i think you're going to appreciate a year in the coal mines a helluva lot more than interning for some editor, as far as your own writing is considered. i'm for varied experience: i think it's the experience whores who tend to be better writers because they've got a basis in various things. that's me, though. you're certainly more driven than i am to be a part of the published community.

as far as expanding your own personal insight and translating that to the written word, which is going to work best for you? i understand completely the desire to have time to write (writers, it seems, tend to be a pretty lazy bunch a lot of times, fairly adverse to real work), but i can't really stress enough the value of hard, physical labour. put a damn roof on a house. work for a landscaper. bust your a ss in a factory for twelve hours, six/seven daze a week. that'll learn ya. certainly don't go through life having never felt a burn in your back.

here ya go, you wanna job? join the military. do something you can be proud of, eh? yeah, i liked working in a book store, but i hardly beam with joy at the rememberence. seriously, one of my major life's regrets was i never joined the armed forces. jeez, i sound like a recruiter, lol.

Jamesaritchie

03-11-2005, 07:28 PM

as far as expanding your own personal insight and translating that to the written word, which is going to work best for you? i understand completely the desire to have time to write (writers, it seems, tend to be a pretty lazy bunch a lot of times, fairly adverse to real work), but i can't really stress enough the value of hard, physical labour. put a damn roof on a house. work for a landscaper. bust your a ss in a factory for twelve hours, six/seven daze a week. that'll learn ya. certainly don't go through life having never felt a burn in your back.

here ya go, you wanna job? join the military. do something you can be proud of, eh? yeah, i liked working in a book store, but i hardly beam with joy at the rememberence. seriously, one of my major life's regrets was i never joined the armed forces. jeez, i sound like a recruiter, lol.

I agree, but there's no good reason I can think of to spend your entire life at hard, physical labor. As far as I'm concerned, a little bit goes a long way. I spent most of the first twenty-six years of my life doing some of the most brutal physical labor possible. That was more than enough. Hard work may not kill, but it can certainly make you old before your time if you don't know when to quit.

As for cutting yourself off from people, it's an individual thing. It works just fine for many, and not at all for others. We're individuals, and we simply don't have the same needs or desires. Some of the best writing, reasoning, and insights I've ever read came from writers who had cut themselves off from the rest of humanity as much as was humanly possible.

novelator

03-12-2005, 07:31 AM

Well, you could do what I did--change jobs every three months for about twenty five years (lots of real world experience there--I kept one or two for a couple of years a piece) while playing music on nights and weekends and weekend nights, not to mention writing poetry every day just to get a decent song lyric once in a great while, then this woman in a Bronco rams you and your poor old Cutlass at forty-five miles an hour. Then God decides to see if you're going to b*tch about this sudden change of identity, and for six years you do nothing creatively (but no complaint, you just accept what's on your plate), write not a word to anyone, then one day you're abruptly moved to write fiction. The best thing about this whole long process was that all my life I had so many questions about why I lived my life this way--roaming all over the country to boot--but after I wrote that first story, I suddenly realized what a gift I'd been given. My past made all kinds of sense then. I can't tell you how many real characters I got to know, how many different types of jobs and work places to which I've been exposed. You can't get this kind of education in a college, but now I get to write about it all. Man, have I ever been blessed.

And to top this off, I'm now working part time as a customer service representative in a call center with even more exposure to people from all walks of life, and even better, names, all kinds of names for characters at my disposal. What a great life this has been so far, and the best is yet to come.

Mari

Vipersniper

03-12-2005, 08:56 AM

:banana: Personally I like everything everyone is writing and truly I would like to be able to make a halfway decent living writing. So I am trying to figure out what else to do beside making gemstone jewelry and irritating all the bible thumpin, chicken eatin, foot stomping, you are going to bust hell wide open ministers that throw me out of their church. Haha at least I am popular with the sinners of the world. I had to retire from nursing when a demented patient attacked me not once but twice and so I started writing which was my first love and therefore I am hoping like the rest of you the best way to do it.

preyer

03-12-2005, 12:14 PM

oh, to be sure, stop hard labour before it breaks you down. it's just good to know what it is. it gives you a good perspective on things, i think. it's also great to have a bunch of bosses to illustrate the exact reason why you don't ever want to work for anyone but yourself, lol, which is part of the appeal of being a professional writer to me. okay, it's a major appeal.

the great thing about writing is you can do it until you die or when the synapses in your brain quit firing, so it's not like there's a huge rush to get it accomplished, necessarily. personally, i tend to find i like more mature writers who've lived a little bit. that's just me. anyone of practically any age can write well, but it's the level of, ah, intimacy with the matter that often shows through. not always, of course, but in general i think this holds some water. experiences to draw from gives a more balanced realism to most works, so that's why i say go out and get some experiences that expose you to different people and situations. a lot of this stuff doesn't even entail work, really: go camping under the stars, visit another country, own a ridiculously fast car, get your arse-cheeks pierced together, stuff like that. that's all good stuff you can use later. plus, it's kinda fun. :)