When you're too defensive about your work...

[Kryianna]

My husband is my greatest fan, cheerleader, and idea-man. Often I'll ask him for suggestions, but get really defensive and fight him on them. I want his ideas, because they generally are really good; sometimes, though, the suggestion might be completely antithetical to my intended plot, and my claws will come out.

He's not telling me how to write my novel. He's only offering suggestions after I ask. I want to have him read my WIPs and different drafts so that he can help me develop the plot. But I don't want to get into a fight each time. I think ...well, it's my baby, and I'm holding on to it too tightly. He loves my passion, and just wishes I'd retract the claws.

Do you know what I mean? Has anyone else been in a similar situation? Any words of wisdom? Help!

[Toothpaste]

I think many people get defensive at the initial response to even asked for advice. The key is to be aware that the response is not productive. You seem to be very aware that you are defensive so that is excellent, it isn't that you know your work is perfect, it's that you simply feel a certain way when people tell you stuff. The next step is simply to, when you feel that way, not say anything. Just don't say anything. Think things, get mad, whatever, but don't say anything. Nod, and say thank you. Then take the advice away, rant and rave to yourself about how brilliant your work is. Finish. Breathe. And then take the advice. (of course only if you agree with it!)

[CheshireCat]

Yeah, learn to be a grownup writer.

If you ask for advice, listen to it, walk away and think about it for a while, and then sift out what makes sense to you and ignore the rest.

If you can't do that without snapping at, clawing at, and otherwise attacking whoever you ask for input --

Stop asking.

[IceCreamEmpress]

Maybe you would do well by sharing your work here, or in a writer's group, first. That way you'd be accustomed to hearing critiques and wouldn't take your husband's comments personally.

[Shadow_Ferret]

I don't ask.

I'm not a grownup writer.

[Giant Baby]

Maybe you would do well by sharing your work here, or in a writer's group, first. That way you'd be accustomed to hearing critiques and wouldn't take your husband's comments personally.

I find this very helpful. I never let my husband (or close friends) see any of my work until someone who doesn't love me (and preferably writes or is a *good* reader) reads it first. By the time he sees it I'm usually far along enough that I'm obsessing over stripping out unnecessary "that"s and "just"s, and not gaping plot holes or inconsistent characters or other whoppers.

[DeleyanLee]

I've learned two secrets about commentary. One is how to ask for it, the other is how to listen to it.

If I say "What do you think?" the commentor doesn't have much direction and is liable to go off on whatever tangent that comes to their mind, which is generally totally unrelated to the story I'm telling. If I lead off with something more along the lines of "I'm trying to make this character more interesting in this way--brainstorm with me" that direction usually helps a lot with keeping things (including my emotions) on track and the conversation helpful.

When I'm listening to comments that are coming back, I actively try to use them to springboard my thinking out of whatever box or rut I'm stuck in. Some amount of chaos is good and keeps thing interesting, after all. If something's too far out, I ask about their mental leaps to get to that point from wherever we were. Sometimes I can use what they came up with, but more times I can zigzag over to something that totally fits that I never would've found otherwise.

People willing to be sounding boards are founts of inspiration and help, but the challenge is remembering that they don't know the story as well as I do and, often, will never understand my creative process. It's up to me to use the raw input they give me and make it my own and incorporate it however it might fit. And when I do it right and give them the hugs, smiles and congrats for their brilliant input--it makes them feel like a valued part of the book--which they are, of course.

Good luck with it.

[Sofie]

Personally, I learnt not to be too defensive by asking my boyfriend for advice. He's awesome and supportive, but he's also brutally honest. In the beginning, that caused a lot of arguments and tears from my side, but eventually I came out the other side not only as a stronger writer, but as a much more confident one, too.
Harsh criticism thickened my skin significantly - if you're willing to put up with the agony and suffering (there'll be plenty of that, before you learn how to look at your writing more objectively), having someone reliable tearing your work apart on a regular basis is a great way of learning to deal with it.

[sunna]

I think it's natural to get defensive, at least at first. It is your baby. But you do need to learn to take criticism and thank the giver of it: even if you feel they're way off base (which, keep in mind, doesn't necessarily mean they are!), they've done you the favor of reading your work and thinking about it, and offering suggestions to improve it.

If your husband's willing to give feedback, that's great. Value it. Don't argue, just ask questions if you have any, thank him, and then sift out the parts that make sense and will improve the story. Ultimately it's up to you what to do and where to go with it: just keep that in mind and it's easier not to get upset about criticism. If he's telling you something that gets you frustrated, just say you need to think about it - and do that. I've found it's often the advice I like least that turns out to be the most useful, even if I don't always employ it the way it was intended. :)

[Keyboard Hound]

One real danger bristling to the person giving feedback brings is that they'll think twice before lending help next time. At best, the help they give will be watered down to suit what they think you can handle. I've seen people completely lose critters by acting defensive at their suggestions.

I agree with sunna7kore. Usually when a crit makes a person bristle, they should pay attention because it contains something important. That's true for me anyway.

It's best to make notes of the crits and look at them later if you're not ready to face them now.

[dantem42]

And remember, if you can't learn to stand up to constructive criticism, just think how you'll deal with an egregious, withering review by some self-satisfied literary critic if you do get published. We're talking twenty to life.

Luckily, for most genuinely aspiring writers, dealing with criticism is something you get used to with time. I nearly went catatonic when I got my first critique years back, but by now my skin is as thick as an old Louisiana swamp gator's. I find the process exhilarating in a way; after you've read your own stuff a hundred times, it's virtually impossible for you to see plot holes and other flaws, and it's a relief to me when someone else catches something I probably would have missed even with another five reads.

[PeeDee]

I don't ask my wife for ideas. I tell my ideas to her. In the process of telling, I hear my own ideas out loud. And I gauge whether or not she glazes over.

The first words out of any writer's mouth when one of his darlings are challenged is "yeah, but..."

[bunnygirl]

I say it depends on a lot of things. There is a definite art to critiquing and a lot of people do it badly, causing (sometimes justly, sometimes not) a defensive reaction on the part of the writer.

For example, nothing gets my goat quicker than someone reading a short outtake from halfway through one of my novels and instead of critiquing what I've asked for (ie: dialogue or scene description) starts blathering about the implausibility of my my characters' actions and motivations. Huh? You can understand all their motivations from a 100-word outtake 50K words deep into the novel??? Call Miss Clio-- she's got a great new career path for you!

Help your critter out! Be specific about what you want assistance with. If it's novel-length fiction and your critter isn't familiar with your story from the beginning, you may want to say something like, "Some things might not make sense because this is near the end and a lot has happened, so only tell me if the sword-fighting scene is realistic and what to change if it's not."

And if your critter still insists on critting stuff they're in no position to have an opinion on, or if they critique in a hurtful way, find someone else.

If they don't succumb to these common critting flaws, though, accept that the problem could be your own approach to criticism. Everyone has an opinion, and one person's opinion isn't the be-all and end-all. Don't like what they say? Thank your critter graciously and get a second opinion. Get a third. If you notice a trend, consider making changes. If opinions differ, though, go with your own gut.

[VGrossack]

An article I wrote on critiquing which has proven to be rather popular. Here's the link and the text

http://www.coffeehouseforwriters.com/fictionfix/0511%20Grossack.html

How to Get - and Take - Criticism

Victoria Grossack

One of the best ways to improve your writing in general and your work in particular is to apply the criticism of others. But where do you go to get such a critique? And how do you take it? Having your work critiqued can be occasionally painful; how do you deal with negative reactions?

Finding People to Critique Your Work

If all you want to hear is praise about your work, then you should turn to friends and family who never say a bad word to your face. This will prevent your ego from being damaged. However, if you want to improve your writing, you have to find people who are both willing to look at your work and who are competent at writing, or at least at analyzing what they read.

Where do you find such people? If they are not in your close circle of acquaintance, then you will have to step outside that circle. In many ways, it is good to step outside your normal circle of friends for literary criticism, because relationships can be strained by writing critiques. Your friends may provide you with great, right-to-the-heart-of-the-matter comments that help you improve your story by tall bounds. But you may write so terribly that your friends don’t know what to say and feel imposed upon by the request. Or you may write so well that you make your friends jealous. I have experienced all three reactions, including, I admit it, the second (but that was many years ago).

So you may want to turn to relative strangers for critique. There are many ways to do this. Some of them are free; others cost money. There may be writing groups that meet in your area. These can be great; for face-to-face meetings with other writers can inspire you and give you a shot of creative-laden energy. They can also be timewasters, spiraling down into social meetings – pleasant, perhaps, but not useful. The problem with these meetings is that they are constrained by time and space: whoever in the surrounding area can get to the library every other Tuesday, for example.

Another possibility is an online critique group. Now here I will do a plug for coffeehouseforwiters, which sponsors Fiction Fix. This site has an excellent critique group, CH Select which is where I sharpened my own writing skills years ago. If you search on the internet you can find others which may suit your specialty.

Some alternatives involve money but should not be dismissed out of hand just because of this. You may take a class or a seminar, either in person or on-line. Another possibility is to hire someone to look at your work individually. Some people may scorn the idea of going to “book doctors,” because they feel that they should not have to pay in order to learn to write. Perhaps these people can’t afford the money, but I don’t see why a service, if it offers you value and insight, should not be paid for. Another reason people are leery of paying for help is because they are afraid of getting ripped off, which of course is always a possibility. So if you are considering this, you should always check references.

People who give you criticism are often known as “critters.” I’ll be using this word occasionally in the rest of the article.

What to Give Them
Say you have found someone or some people you want to look at your writing. What should you give them? Unless you already have a working relationship with these people, please consider the following two suggestions:

1. Start with a sample. Unless you are paying someone to read thousands of your words, then don’t begin by saying, “Could you give me a critique of my 80,000-word novel?” This sort of request strikes terror into a busy person. Instead, ask your potential critter to read and comment on a few paragraphs or pages. In fact, this is a pretty good thing to do with a book doctor, too – this way you could test your potential hire.

2. Give them your very best. Don’t think that poor grammar and typos are excusable, simply because you are not sending your work to an agent or an editor. Wait until you have finished your piece and re-read it several times before passing it along. Not giving critters your best is actually insulting because you’re wasting their time – you are telling them that they do not merit your very best. If you give critters a piece full of obvious mistakes, then you may ruin your chances with getting a good critique of the story. In addition, they may be reluctant to look at anything else.

Not giving critters your very best wastes your time, too. How? Well, good critters should be used to help you find the problems that you can’t find on your own. If all they do is point out the problems that you already knew were there, then how have they helped you?

How to Take Criticism
Receiving praise is easy. All you have to do is smile and say thank you. But what should you do when the response is less than flattering?

You may not be able to smile, but you should still say thank you. Someone has taken the trouble to offer you an opinion. Unless you have half-a-dozen qualified opinions to the contrary, you should listen.

Still, what if it hurts? You may be offering your masterpiece, your child, your very soul on the paper – the slightest criticism can sting. What do you do?

I’ll start by saying what you should NOT do: do not reply hastily and negatively, especially with insults. Tell them that you appreciate their taking the time to tell you what they think. Even if you know they have made a mistake – for example, if they have claimed that Benjamin Franklin never went to France, when you know that the opposite is true – point out this difference of opinion politely.

The most difficult chore is dealing with the possibility that what you wrote has genuine flaws. What do you do? Here are some suggestions:

1. Take pride in the fact that you wrote something. Many people dream of being writers; far fewer get around to actually writing their stories and novels. So by writing anything – even if it is not great – you have done a lot. The first step is to write. The second step is to learn to write well.

2. Distance yourself from your writing. One reason criticism of your writing can hurt so much is because you see it as an extension of yourself. Recognize that your writing is not you; try putting your ego away and concentrate on making your work better.

3. Remind yourself that others have taken a long time to learn how to write. Why it should be any different for you? Many people seem to believe that because they know how to read, they also know how to write. Perhaps you enjoy watching professional baseball – you understand all the rules, you know the statistics, and so on. Do you think that just because you know how to watch that you could hit a homerun out of Yankee Stadium? Or think of professional figure skating: when it’s well done, it looks easy. But we all know that these things are not easy. Why should writing be any different? You have to do your exercises and learn the craft.

4. Take the criticism and apply it. When you accept the criticism, and apply it to your story, your work will get better. You will also start gaining that necessary distance from your work so that you can see – and fix - the flaws before others do.

Give as Well as Take
If you join a critique group, make sure you give critiques at least as often as you receive them. There are several reasons for doing so. First, it’s simple courtesy. Second, when you give a thoughtful critique of someone else’s writing, you are much more likely to receive a thoughtful critique in return. Third, as you give another person a thoughtful critique, explaining what you did or did not like about a particular paragraph, you will be simultaneously improving your own writing. You will be taking writing more seriously, and others may eventually take your writing more seriously too.

[PastMidnight]

I find online critiques to be great because I'm not reacting face-to-face. I can do my defensive raving in an empty room, shouting at my computer screen, then I shut it down and come back the next day to compose my response. I find that, by then, most of the defensiveness has worn off and I'm able to look at the critiques a little more objectively.

[Irysangel]

I used to ask my husband for his advice too, when I got stuck. I write romance...he dislikes romance intensely. So he would offer me a plot idea that was completely unsuitable for a romance, and I'd shoot it down. He'd offer another. I'd shoot it down too. So on and so on.

He would then get mad at me and ask me "Why the h#$& did you ask my opinion, then?"

And I didn't know. *g*

Don't ask your spouse. Seriously. Unless you are ready to take their suggestions and thank them profusely for being so clever with it, no matter the suggestion.

[Paichka]

Pfft.

I wish I'd read this thread before asking DH to read the first couple of chapters of my WIP.

He didn't shoot them down, precisely, or really say anything negative. He LIKES the genre (fantasy) and we have essentially the same taste in books. I asked him what he thought of the chapters, and he said, "Oh, they're good."

*crickets chirping*

"Good?"

"Yeah. Want to watch TV?"

*sigh* The fact that he didn't jump up and down and tell me I'm the next George-RR-friggin-Martin stuck in my craw a bit.

Silly, I know. But still.

[nevada]

Remember that anything anyone says about your writing is not a critique of you. If they don't like something that doesn't mean they don't like you. If someone says I don't like your coffeetable, you don't get all huffy and nasty and you shouldn't because that coffeetable has nothing to do with you. (Unless it's an Ikea table and you assembled it wrong because you wouldn't read the instructions and now it looks more like the poang chair. Then it is your fault lol)

Yes, you wrote it, yes you poured your heart and soul into it but it's not you. It's an entity that is separate than you and if you want to be published you need to learn that really quick because there will be people who will say "I hate this. This is the worst thing I've ever read. I want my money back. This writer is a hack" No matter how good your book may be. And if you don't think so, check out the "last movie you saw" thread in Movies and TV to see how very varied people's reactions to things can be.

And you will find out when someone says that. People like that post on amazon. So what will you do then? Take it personally and hunt that guy down so you can give him a piece of your mind? Punch him in the face? Or better yet, respond like Anne Rice? No. You say "Oh well, he's got a right to his opinion." And you look at his specific points to see if maybe he has a point. If he does, you keep that in mind for the next book. If he doesn't, you move on. Every crit should be handled like that. And if you can't do that, don't show anyone your work. Ever.

[Gray Rose]

I have experienced this, too. I am sure my troubles came from disregarding the rules.

Two rules that S. King discusses are: LET IT SIT and CLOSE THE DOOR.

Examples from my experience.
I finished my first short story in the end of August, gave it to betas, got feedback, finished a rewrite (all within 2 weeks or so). My husband said, LET IT SIT. I wanted to send it out NOW, so I argued. My argument boiled down to "You don't understand anything." Eventually I put the story aside and sent it out three months later; it is a better story now. Let It Sit really works.

Close the Door is even more important. It means that you do not show your stuff until you have a full first draft - and yes, not even to your spouse. One of the worst mistakes I've made was to give out pieces of the WIP before I was through. It was a good experience, too, because I needed the validation, but I ended up catering to my readers' wishes - too much so. Those days I am closing the door.

The time to open your work to crits will come when you have a body of work to share. King discusses the ill effects of both good and bad reactions to half-baked drafts in his book (which I warmly recommend).

Just my 2c. Good luck with your writing!

[honeycomb]

Yeah, learn to be a grownup writer.

If you ask for advice, listen to it, walk away and think about it for a while, and then sift out what makes sense to you and ignore the rest.


I agree with CheshireCat. Learn that it's not a personal attack against you. Although it feels like it. Remember, three things:

It's the reader that you have to make understand what you've written.

Opinions are like buttholes, everybody has one.

Take the meat and throw away the bone.

These are things that I'm still learning.

[Christian Genzel]

Someone mentioned online criticism - I was going to suggest writing all feedback down and then handing it to the other person. It helps the critic to talk about all the important issues without getting lost in all the tangents a normal conversation usually pursues - and the writer can read all of it and then have his initial response privately. I've done script consulting on a number of screenplays, and I usually just write down all my feedback and give it to the writer - it's a much better way to discuss all the initial thoughts, and then, if the writer wishes to, we'll talk about his script and my feedback in person.

[mum23]

My husband is my greatest fan, cheerleader, and idea-man. Often I'll ask him for suggestions, but get really defensive and fight him on them. I want his ideas, because they generally are really good; sometimes, though, the suggestion might be completely antithetical to my intended plot, and my claws will come out.

He's not telling me how to write my novel. He's only offering suggestions after I ask. I want to have him read my WIPs and different drafts so that he can help me develop the plot. But I don't want to get into a fight each time. I think ...well, it's my baby, and I'm holding on to it too tightly. He loves my passion, and just wishes I'd retract the claws.

Do you know what I mean? Has anyone else been in a similar situation? Any words of wisdom? Help!

I was kicked out of a writers group for not having enough experience. Then had a few bad comments, but I am so thankful from them. There have been people when posting their work who (I feel) may be a little big headed and think they don't need critisism.
Critisism makes me a better writer. I am thankful for it.

[JeanneTGC]

I use my husband as my litmus test -- if he likes it, it's not any good.

That comes across badly, but it's been proven true over and over again. If he hates an idea, I run with it. If he loves something, I have to admit that it's chances of selling just plummeted.

This is more because he prefers a vastly different writing style to what I do, as opposed to him being an uneducated reader. Or him being unsupportive -- he's hugely supportive of me and my writing.

However, I like asking him what he thinks, and I also like to run my ideas by him, because he can help point out areas where I'll need to change or expand or explain something.

I figure if I can handle my husband basically telling me that he can't stand anything I write BUT at the same time thinks I'm a great writer (and I can, by now, it's a source of comedy for our family), then I can handle some critic I've never met panning my books or short stories.

[Judg]

Kryianna, this is your husband. We do not react to our husbands the way we do to other people. There's a completely different emotional dynamic.

If you haven't already done so, I'd suggest apologizing to him and telling him what you've said to us. It will make him feel better. Although I get the impression you probably have pretty good communication going on, so this is probably redundant.

Then I'd suggest deciding how badly you want his input. If you really can't react more coolly, it might be better to stop asking. But if you do want to continue, you might consider asking him to write his thoughts down, so you can read them when he's not there. Or else practice the line "I will have to give this idea some really serious consideration" and say it every time you're tempted to use your claws.

Good luck with all this. Somebody with your level of self-awareness will probably find a way to work it all out, and probably with better techniques than my suggestions. Hope it helps a little anyway.