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Hapax Legomenon
12-15-2007, 01:24 AM
I don't have anything against Christmas, in and of itself. The birth of Christ is an important thing to celebrate for Christians (though the fact that Christmas as it is now was originally a Pagan holiday is besides the point), but the fact is that all the things that go along with Christmas has gone out of control.

I know a lot of people here don't live in the States, but I'm talking about what's happened to it in the US. Feel free to laugh at us. I say it's ridiculous.

This is why:

1) Christmas lights. They are a) and eyesore, b) dangerous to put up, and c) waste a tremendous amount of electricity. Also, because there's no Boxing Day, there's nothing to curb this waste of electricity and d) so a lot of times people are wasting electricity on Christmas from November through February, long past the Christmas season.

2) The music. It's played over and over nonstop in commercial places and on the TV. Nothing wrong with it in and of itself, but, haven't they proven that listening to the same song over and over again can drive a person insane? Even if that's not true, it's extremely annoying.

3) It starts earlier and earlier every year. In fact, Thanksgiving (the most American holiday there is) was pushed back a week to accomodate for a longer Christmas season, but that's STILL not enough. I've seen Christmas advertisements and sales and decorations up BEFORE Halloween. Seriously. And this is awful because:

4) It throws people into a tizzy. Even if you're not Christian, you have to buy everyone gifts! It's caused a) other traditionally non-important holidays to adopt a Christmas-like attitude to keep things representatively correct, and it also b) crowds and congests commercial centers so much that people who are trying to buy the basic necessities can't get through those trying to buy for Christmas. Crowds are impossible to avoid, especially the closer and closer to Christmas it is. It also c) racks up a lot of debt right before tax season. That seems a bit cruel, doesn't it? At least birthdays are usually spread across the year, but on Christmas everyone's buying at the same time.

5) The political correctness. Other faiths and cultures feel the need to compensate and make another holiday a gift-giving holiday, too. These holidays usually don't fall on Christmas but are treated as if they did. I'm Jewish (though that doesn't make my argument any less valid), and I know that Hanukkah rarely falls over Christmas, yet well-meaning people who know I'm Jewish wish me Happy Hanukkah long after Hanukkah is over. Those who are being thrown into a tizzy over PCness are usually Christian themselves and have no idea what those who are not Christian go through. Yes, Christmas is an important holiday to Christains. We non-Christians get that. We'd be a lot happier if you stopped being meshuggeneh during this time of year than if you wished us 'seasons greetings,' but that's not going to stop any time soon, we know. And don't even get me started on banning "Ho Ho Ho."

6) The stress. Ignore the song, it most certainly is NOT the 'most wonderful time of the year.' Everybody feels the need to be 'festive' during Christmas under threat of being called a Scrooge or a Grinch. Along with Christmas, many students have finals and other end-of-semester worries to worry about on top of remembering if they got gifts for all of their friends.

7) And then it's all over, right on December 26th. Which is pretty ridiculous for something that lasts since the middle of October, isn't it? It just suddenly ends, just like that, and yet there are still commercials with Christmas songs, and of course there's overproduction of Christmas things, which the stores all sell at 70% off the day after. And why should there be any more celebration after that, anyway? Those who were getting gifts got theirs, and all there's left to deal with is the debt and endless cleanup.

Christmas, as it is now, is a pain in the ass. Go to Mass and give gifts to your kids, but please, can't we do without the Christmas season?

KTC
12-15-2007, 01:26 AM
Where do I sign the petition? #2 and #3 are particularly annoying. Well, I'm not a fan of #5 or #6 either. Quick...where do I sign!

Hapax Legomenon
12-15-2007, 01:27 AM
Where do I sign the petition? #2 and #3 are particularly annoying. Well, I'm not a fan of #5 or #6 either. Quick...where do I sign!

I need to make a petition.

I've also got to start taking the title of 'Grinch' as a term of endearment. ^_^

TrickyFiction
12-15-2007, 01:30 AM
I agree with everything you said, except for the bit about lights.
I am a sucker for anything shiny or sparkly.

Shady Lane
12-15-2007, 01:32 AM
:(

III
12-15-2007, 01:43 AM
But oh, to be a child at Christmas again. Just one more Christmas as a child without the weight of the season on my shoulders would be quite wonderful.

kristie911
12-15-2007, 01:43 AM
I used to love Christmas time. I still love the lights! But when they started putting up Christmas decorations in the stores before Halloween, I said, "Bah-humbug". When people started buying 15 of the giant blow-up yard decorations, I said, "What a bunch of frickin' idiots." And when "they" decided Santa couldn't be fat or say ho ho ho anymore...well, I said, "f--k you, Christmas. Kiss my ass."

Where do I sign?

scarletpeaches
12-15-2007, 01:44 AM
I don't celebrate Christmas anyway.

It's a load of old wank.

KTC
12-15-2007, 01:46 AM
III...not everybody had fun during the childhood Christmas season. Trust me on that one. I like to give my kids a fun Christmas...but for me, I'd just as soon see it be gone.

Hapax Legomenon
12-15-2007, 01:47 AM
I don't celebrate Christmas anyway.

It's a load of old wank.

I don't celebrate Christmas either but I still have to deal with it every day from the middle of October through probably the tenth of January.

It's a pain.

Tiger
12-15-2007, 01:47 AM
Everybody "used" to love Christmas (most of us were children, once). :)

I'm somewhat ambivalent. I'm making a roast, this year and will enjoy the time off.

sharpierae
12-15-2007, 01:48 AM
You present a well-reasoned argument. Thumbs up (to you), thumbs down (to the season).

scarletpeaches
12-15-2007, 01:52 AM
But oh, to be a child at Christmas again. Just one more Christmas as a child without the weight of the season on my shoulders would be quite wonderful.

If only.

Christmas for me meant a beating. So, pretty much like any other day.

III
12-15-2007, 01:55 AM
III...not everybody had fun during the childhood Christmas season. Trust me on that one. I like to give my kids a fun Christmas...but for me, I'd just as soon see it be gone.

If only.

Christmas for me meant a beating. So, pretty much like any other day.

Well you're both getting something for Christmas from me this year. A BIG HUG! :Hug2: **pinches respective rumps**

WendyNYC
12-15-2007, 01:56 AM
I don't celebrate Christmas anyway.

It's a load of old wank.


Aw, you are welcome to come to my house, Scarlet. That is, if you enjoy overeating and chaos.

scarletpeaches
12-15-2007, 02:00 AM
Well you're both getting something for Christmas from me this year. A BIG HUG! :Hug2: **pinches respective rumps**

I'd rather have a chocolate bar than a butt-grope, thank you.

Tiger
12-15-2007, 02:00 AM
To me, Christmas used to mean a family get together: an experience which, for me, existed somewhere between Root Canal, and Shit Alley on my personal pleasure map.

It doesn't any more, so now I can enjoy my roast.

KTC
12-15-2007, 02:00 AM
Well you're both getting something for Christmas from me this year. A BIG HUG! :Hug2: **pinches respective rumps**

I'd rather have a chocolate bar than a butt-grope, thank you.

Tiger
12-15-2007, 02:01 AM
Can I have a chocolate butt grope?

OverTheHills&FarAway
12-15-2007, 02:01 AM
I am not a Christmas fan. I avoid it at all costs.

Pretty hard to avoid....where's this-here so-called petition thing?

Tiger
12-15-2007, 02:01 AM
Argh. Curse my slow typing.

choppersmom
12-15-2007, 02:38 AM
http://www.festivusbook.com/

Shady Lane
12-15-2007, 04:04 AM
But just because you're pissed off at people who can't celebrate Christmas correctly doesn't mean you have to be pissed off about Christmas.

And Hap, I gotta say, I think it's sort of out of line for a Jew to propose the end of Christmas. I wouldn't start a thread calling for the end of Ramadan, just because I don't celebrate it. So the consumerism's out of hand. I don't think you'll find a single person who won't agree with that. But that's not what Christmastime's about, Charlie Brown.

William Haskins
12-15-2007, 04:08 AM
i propose that people who don't want to celebrate christmas not do so and leave people who do the fuck alone.

This is why:

1) Christmas lights.
don't put up any. there are a lot of eyesores in the world, so ignore them as you would any other. if you're concerned about the energy wasted, feel free to reduce your own consumption to compensate for it or, better yet, buy carbon credits. until you pay my light bill, you can piss off...

2) The music.
between commercials, muzak and people's stereos, there's no shortage of shitty music being pumped into the public space. again, ignore it as you would any other. i'll take 'winter wonderland' over that goddamn beyonce 'upgrade me' commercial being played 20 times an hour any day.

3) It starts earlier and earlier every year.
it seems to me that anyone so inclined could easily ignore the trappings of christmas season simply by pursuing something productive in their own lives.

4) It throws people into a tizzy. Even if you're not Christian, you have to buy everyone gifts!
i'm not a huge fan of consumer culture, but if people work and earn money they want to spend in a particular season on people they care about, they have that right. if you don't want to buy gifts, don't.

5) The political correctness. Other faiths and cultures feel the need to compensate and make another holiday a gift-giving holiday, too.
i would say that's the other faiths and culture's problem. why should those who enjoy christmas not experience it because of what someone else will do?

6) The stress. Ignore the song, it most certainly is NOT the 'most wonderful time of the year.' Everybody feels the need to be 'festive' during Christmas under threat of being called a Scrooge or a Grinch.
this seems to be a fairly broad assumption.

7) And then it's all over, right on December 26th. Which is pretty ridiculous for something that lasts since the middle of October, isn't it?
not really. you have to start getting ready for new year's eve.

merry christmas.

Esopha
12-15-2007, 04:10 AM
I like Christmas!

It's the only time I get to see my whole family, happy... not driving each other crazy.

Seriously, if you dislike the consumerism, then don't take part. It's easy to do. Just say no. I've been saying no for 16 years.

Hapax Legomenon
12-15-2007, 04:12 AM
But just because you're pissed off at people who can't celebrate Christmas correctly doesn't mean you have to be pissed off about Christmas.

And Hap, I gotta say, I think it's sort of out of line for a Jew to propose the end of Christmas. I wouldn't start a thread calling for the end of Ramadan, just because I don't celebrate it. So the consumerism's out of hand. I don't think you'll find a single person who won't agree with that. But that's not what Christmastime's about, Charlie Brown.


Christmas, as it is now, is a pain in the ass. Go to Mass and give gifts to your kids, but please, can't we do without the Christmas season?

At the end of the essay. I want this consumerism and ridiculousness of the season to end. I say it's fine and dandy to celebrate the birth of Christ, but all the trappings are what's got me.

And this is the Take It Outside board. I've seen people rant about lesser things. Nobody said you had to agree with me, although it seems that a few people do.

BenPanced
12-15-2007, 04:14 AM
I'm giving serious consideration to finally announcing next July, to coincide with Hallmark Greeting Card stores putting up their collectible Christmas ornaments (don't believe me? Go to the mall around the middle of July and call me a liar, I dares ya!), please NO MORE CHRISTMAS FOR ME. I will put up the tree for my lover/boyfriend/husband/significant other/roommate/whatever, but I will not be buying or receiving gifts; donate the money you were going to spend to the charity of your choice (hell, I won't complain if you want to join the NRA! It's your money). I will not celebrate it in any way. I'm just getting sick of going through the motions and having people tell me I MUST be bright and happy and cheerful, like it's some kind of requirement for my very existence. Look. If I'm not feeling any of that, why should I put on an act? I don't even feel guilty for missing both holiday lunches at work this year (I enjoyed my Chicago-style hot dog very much, then kew). I've put up with enough of it to where I think I'm justified in saying NO MORE for me.

And let's face it: most of the time, the Christmas presents I get from my family are no longer surprises, which was half the fun (the other half? Gorging myself on my grandmother's cooking). My mother calls me up, asks me what I'd like, and I usually get the DVDs I ask for. Whee.

And I'm also sick of the stress. It's all self-induced! Why should I pat somebody on the back of the hand while tut-tutting about their headache over being so rushed to get to the mall after work to get little BritneyAmberCourtneyLoganMarie the last Street Walker Barbie? What's little BrittanyLuluKortkneeMannyMoJack going to do if she doesn't get the Barbie? Sue for neglect? Cry? Pay attention to the Rolling Stones, people: YOU CAN'T ALWAYS GET WHAT YOU WAH-HONT! If you needed it in time for Christmas, you should have ordered it back in October!

No, we don't have to do it "for the kids". It's no longer "for the kids", if it ever was. It's about parents doing it for themselves and assuaging their guilt because they remember not getting the Slutty Stewardess Barbie with the authentic Fredericks of Hollywood split-crotch panties, so they don't want to disappoint little JasonJoshuaAidenOrlandoAiden and promise him he'll be getting the blue, not the green the BLUE HE ALREADY HAS THE GREEN ONE HE NEEDS THE BLUE Mighty Morphin Wasn't This Show Canceled About 80 Years Ago Power Ranger with Kung-Fu Testicle Punching Action?

And of course, there's the Christmas specials. Yes, there are many classics to choose from but what do we have these days? Just about every single TV show has a Christmas episode that's either a riff on A Christmas Carol or It's A Wonderful Life with the pitiful soul who can't seem to get their pitiful little peabrain wrapped around Christmas and they aren't celebrating this year because it's just too much stress and they have to learn a lesson about "THE REAL REASON WHY WE CELEBRATE CHRISTMAS", which is we have to run down to the mall before it closes after our dream sequence so we can buy everybody the most expensive fruit basket/cheese assortment/last minute present that says "Look! I bought you a gift!", if only in the name of Having Learned A Very Important Lesson About Spending Money Giving.

Where's the petition?! I promise I'll only sign it once!

WendyNYC
12-15-2007, 04:15 AM
7) And then it's all over, right on December 26th. Which is pretty ridiculous for something that lasts since the middle of October, isn't it? It just suddenly ends, just like that, and yet there are still commercials with Christmas songs, and of course there's overproduction of Christmas things, which the stores all sell at 70% off the day after. And why should there be any more celebration after that, anyway? Those who were getting gifts got theirs, and all there's left to deal with is the debt and endless cleanup.



Actually, it's not over until 12 days after that, on Epiphany.

Shady Lane
12-15-2007, 04:15 AM
At the end of the essay. I want this consumerism and ridiculousness of the season to end. I say it's fine and dandy to celebrate the birth of Christ, but all the trappings are what's got me.

And this is the Take It Outside board. I've seen people rant about lesser things. Nobody said you had to agree with me, although it seems that a few people do.

Yes, it is Take it Outside. Given that, I figured my counterargument would not be out of place.

Tony_LaRocca
12-15-2007, 04:17 AM
I'm just fed up with the whole consumerism thing. You must buy Christmas presents. You also better buy your wife a Valentine's day present, your mother a mother's day present, your father a father's day present, etc.

Esopha
12-15-2007, 04:19 AM
I think if we do away with Christmas we should also do away with public celebration of any and all religious holidays.

People would be forced to celebrate within the privacy of their own home, with the windows boarded up, so no one else could see them.

Because menorahs are an eyesore. I hate candles.

:D

Happy holidays!

Hapax Legomenon
12-15-2007, 04:20 AM
I think if we do away with Christmas we should also do away with public celebration of any and all religious holidays.

People would be forced to celebrate within the privacy of their own home, with the windows boarded up, so no one else could see them.

Because menorahs are an eyesore. I hate candles.

:D

Happy holidays!

Sounds like a plan to me.

Hapax Legomenon
12-15-2007, 04:23 AM
Yes, it is Take it Outside. Given that, I figured my counterargument would not be out of place.

I was just trying to say that, despite the sensationalist title, the ranting was about the trappings and consumerism and ensuing stress. I have nothing against Christmas in and of itself, and from your comment about banning Ramadan, it looked like you had only read the title and not all the comments. I thought I'd made that I have nothing against the holiday very clear.

nerds
12-15-2007, 04:25 AM
I've had some broke Christmases indeed, when as a single mom, having the power not shut off and oil in the burner were our presents, and the tree was the evergreen outside our window, decorated by the cardinals who came and went. The presents we gave were visiting the lonely, since we had nothing else to give. Were those lesser Christmases? You decide.

This business of ooooh, it's too commercial, is driven by the consumers themselves! I've had times in my life when I could splurge for people, and times when a tin full of my cookies was the best they could expect. It doesn't damn matter. The idea that everyone is enslaved by the commercialism is a gross generalization.

Monkey
12-15-2007, 04:35 AM
I'm a non-Christian that loves Christmas. It was, after all, originally pagan. :)

Say what you want about it, but I've seen my children's faces light up on Christmas morning. My little boy points at those "eyesore" Christmas lights and says, "Look, Mommy! So pretty!" He giggles at Rudolph, the Red-Nosed Reindeer.

All the hullaballoo around Christmas excites my kids, and means my husband gets a long break from work. My parents get a break, too. It means that we can all get together.

And all those attempts at being PC can be used to teach children about different religions. The point that I make to my kids is that any holiday (or any day) has the meaning that people give it. Some people celebrate the turning of the seasons, others celebrate Jesus. Some people believe in Santa, others say Santa's evil. People's beliefs are as varied as the people themselves. To each his own, I say. :)

My family buys presents for the kids. It's not an ego thing. We don't have to spend a fortune just cause someone else did. We use it as an excuse to do something nice for the kiddos. And everyone else gets homemade desserts.

So I say, YAY CHRISTMAS! (or whatever you want to call it.)

Shady Lane
12-15-2007, 04:42 AM
I was just trying to say that, despite the sensationalist title, the ranting was about the trappings and consumerism and ensuing stress. I have nothing against Christmas in and of itself, and from your comment about banning Ramadan, it looked like you had only read the title and not all the comments. I thought I'd made that I have nothing against the holiday very clear.


But the season is part of the holiday. And, in all honesty, it's something that bothers me to see desecrated.

I don't like the idea that all the people who feel happy around this time of year, who feel that little seed in their stomachs when they think about being with their family and just not sweating the small stuff--I don't like the idea that these people are faking it. That they're just going through the motions.

That's what it's about, really. It's about not letting little things stand in the way of being happy. That's why you don't have school. That's why you have the fires and the snow and yeah, the Christmas lights. So that there's nothing in your way if you really want to be happy.

No one's making you be happy, but I feel like they're enough days--and yeah, seasons--already when being happy is a chore. When it seems like everything in your life is stacked up against that basic human need for compassion and affection. We're the same people all year, but I refuse to believe that the sullen faces you'll see through most of the year are anything but a product of society. We are, deep down, good people, and now we've got no excuse not to act like it.

There IS good, and this is the season when you can see it.

It's honestly pretty beautiful.

Hapax Legomenon
12-15-2007, 05:08 AM
Little things don't stand in the way of me being happy the rest of the year. They do when Christmastime rolls around.

William Haskins
12-15-2007, 05:11 AM
Little things don't stand in the way of me being happy the rest of the year. They do when Christmastime rolls around.

well shit, man, it'd be much easier for you to just get yourself some therapy than to worry about abolishing a holiday millions get pleasure from, yes?

larocca
12-15-2007, 05:12 AM
One snowy December, I was rushing around trying to get some last-minute Christmas shopping done. I was stressed out and not thinking very fondly of the Christmas season just then. It was dark, cold and wet in the parking lot as I was loading my car up with gifts I felt obligated to buy. I noticed that I was missing a receipt that I would probably need later on, so muttering under my breath I retraced my steps to the mall entrance.

As I was searching the wet pavement for the missing receipt, I heard a quiet sobbing nearby. The crying was coming from a poorly dressed boy, who I guessed was about 12 years old. He was short and thin, and had no coat. He wore only a ragged flannel shirt to protect him from the cold winter night's chill.

Oddly enough, he was holding a hundred dollar bill in his hand. Thinking that he had gotten separated from his parents and was lost, I asked him what was wrong. He told me his sad story.

He came from a large family of three brothers and four sisters. When the boy was nine years old, his father had died. His mother was poorly educated and worked two full-time jobs, from which she made very little to support the family.

Nonetheless, she had skimped and saved $200 to buy Christmas gifts for her children. On her way to her second job, his mother had dropped off the young boy. She had given him the money and told him to buy presents for the kids, saving just enough to take the bus home. He had not even entered the mall when an older boy stole one of his $100 bills and disappeared into the night.

"Why didn't you scream for help?" I asked.

"I did."

"And no one came to help you?"

The boy stared at the sidewalk and sadly shook his head.

"How loud did you scream?" I asked.

The soft-spoken boy looked up and meekly whispered, "Help me!"

I realized that absolutely no one could have heard this boy's cry for help. So I grabbed the other $100 and ran to my car.

Sweetlebee
12-15-2007, 05:16 AM
http://www.scroogeyourself.com/?id=1411162728

Hapax Legomenon
12-15-2007, 05:21 AM
http://www.scroogeyourself.com/?id=1411162728

Oh my god.

That froze my browser.

triceretops
12-15-2007, 05:26 AM
Leave Christmas. Take the 4th of July crap out and stomp on it. Not the celebration part--the fireworks that burn, injure and kill--the tons of noxious chemicals spewed into the atmosphere. Not to mention burning your money up and making the dogs howl, and shooting weapons off, and black market firewords...and...and...

I'll take the lights of Christmas any day, the smell of pine, avoid the crowds by ordering on line, and watch my damn dumb Xmas cartoons.

Tri

Shady Lane
12-15-2007, 05:27 AM
well shit, man, it'd be much easier for you to just get yourself some therapy than to worry about abolishing a holiday millions get pleasure from, yes?

Never thought I'd agree with Haskins...;)

Hapax Legomenon
12-15-2007, 05:30 AM
well shit, man, it'd be much easier for you to just get yourself some therapy than to worry about abolishing a holiday millions get pleasure from, yes?

Why thank you for thinking of my well being.

Unfortunately, they couldn't figure time to pencil me in until after Christmas. So you'll just have to put up with me until then, yes?

Bravo
12-15-2007, 05:30 AM
4) It throws people into a tizzy. Even if you're not Christian, you have to buy everyone gifts!

why on earth would you have to do that?

that seems very bizarre to me.

nerds
12-15-2007, 05:41 AM
By all means feel free to be a Scrooge. But do not make generalizations. Don't assume that because someone lives in the U.S., or likes Christmas, that they are then by default all consumeristic idiots.

Would it have been okay for me to start a thread with a title wishing an end to Paganism? Judeaism? Islamic views? Agnostic? Atheist? No, it would not have been.

Not every American is having a credit card orgasm at Christmas. I don't even choose to have a credit card, how's that for a shock? I'm feckin' broke, okay? Guess what? I won't buy what I can't pay for on the spot.

Don't assume, just don't assume. It's the assumptions which I find unoriginal. People said this same thing in the U.S. 1920s. They say it now in countries of every faith which are in economic boom.

It doesn't matter a good goddamn how much Wal-Mart or Macy's stocks on their shelves. It only matters when people decide they have to have it. That isn't Christmas' fault.

scarletpeaches
12-15-2007, 05:47 AM
http://www.scroogeyourself.com/?id=1411932328

Hapax Legomenon
12-15-2007, 05:52 AM
By all means feel free to be a Scrooge. But do not make generalizations. Don't assume that because someone lives in the U.S., or likes Christmas, that they are then by default all consumeristic idiots.

Would it have been okay for me to start a thread with a title wishing an end to Paganism? Judeaism? Islamic views? Agnostic? Atheist? No, it would not have been.

Not every American is having a credit card orgasm at Christmas. I don't even choose to have a credit card, how's that for a shock? I'm feckin' broke, okay? Guess what? I won't buy what I can't pay for on the spot.

Don't assume, just don't assume. It's the assumptions which I find unoriginal. People said this same thing in the U.S. 1920s. They say it now in countries of every faith which are in economic boom.

It doesn't matter a good goddamn how much Wal-Mart or Macy's stocks on their shelves. It only matters when people decide they have to have it. That isn't Christmas' fault.

Because I am not personally involved with a lot of Christmas rituals, I can only see people flocking to the shelves to buy these seasonal items. And yes, I do see people buy them in vast quantities. I know it's not everyone, but there are a lot of people who buy that.

It's great that you're trying to watch out for your financial state, but a lot of people don't.

And the assumptions? Unoriginal? Sometimes things become cliches because there's truth in them.

Christmas is shoved into everybody's face much, much more than any other holiday on the calendar, with ones like Halloween coming in at a second, but I wouldn't call it a close second. And because Christmas is a religious holiday, at least in some respect, people constantly worry about offending everyone, and the ones who are offended and try not to offend are both made up of mostly Christians. That's not exactly the same complaint as one would make in the 1920s.

And yes, trying to be culturally and religiously sensitive is very noble, I respect those who try, but would it kill to at least get the dates right? To try to be this way throughout the year, not just when Christmas comes? There are more Jewish holidays than Hanukkah, and I honestly know some people who don't know that. :|

nerds
12-15-2007, 06:02 AM
I understand, I'm just sayin' - don't make a lump, because all it makes is . . . a lump. Which gets hard over time, the longer it's left on the counter.

:Hug2:

Hapax Legomenon
12-15-2007, 06:03 AM
I understand, I'm just sayin' - don't make a lump, because all it makes is . . . a lump. Which gets hard over time, the longer it's left on the counter.

:Hug2:

Which is why we have cathartic rants, don't we?

Siddow
12-15-2007, 06:06 AM
I felt like a Scrooge the other day when me and Mr. Siddow did Christmas cards. I looked at my little pile, compared to his HUGE one, and at first I thought, why don't I have more people to send Christmas cards to?

Then I looked at his pile and realized that he was sending cards to the insurance man, old bosses, old co-workers, distant relatives, people he had to go on the internet to find their addresses...and I asked him, "When's the last time you spoke to any of these people?"

He blinked a couple of times and said, "I don't know. Years."

I then felt very smug knowing that I spent that five minutes on people I really cared about, and then I used up all the stamps and got mine off in the mail while he was still searching down addresses on the internet.

Tiger
12-15-2007, 06:17 AM
When I lived in Japan, folks in this mostly Buddhist/Shinto country used to flock to McD's to celebrate. I hear that now this has switched to KFC. No wonder there's no upsurge in suicide rates at this time of year for them.

I'm really looking forward to my roast.

Life's what you make it... So's Christmas, I think.

nerds
12-15-2007, 06:23 AM
Which is why we have cathartic rants, don't we?


I guess. It's your cathartic rant, not mine. :) Merrie Christmas to you, in the best sense of the term.

PattiTheWicked
12-15-2007, 06:26 AM
In our family, we've got a pair of birthdays on December 9th, so it's hard for me to even be interested in Christmas until at least after that. Plus, we're Pagan, so while we do get a visit from Santa on the night of the 24th, the rest of it really isn't a big deal. We exchange a few gifts on Yule, but since we're just coming on the twin birthday we keep it really small: each kid gets on Really Good gift, a smaller but still nice gift, and a useful gift like a pair of new pajamas or sweaters or something. My kids are totally fine with that. I don't go crazy with lights or decorating, just put up a Yule log on the family altar, some boughs of fresh cut pine or fir, and then stick a bowl of candy canes in the living room. Bam, I'm done.

I shop for the rest of my family but keep it minimal. I send cards only to people I care about and have heard from in the past twelve months. I don't stress out, and in fact when most people are going bonkers on the 24th, I'm sitting back enjoying the perfume or CD the kids gave me two days before.

If the holiday season upsets you that much, perhaps you should rethink the reasons you're celebrating. I mean, why send gifts to people if you don't want to? Why hang lights if you think they're tacky? You do have a choice about how you feel about things, you know.

benbradley
12-15-2007, 06:38 AM
I felt like a Scrooge the other day when me and Mr. Siddow did Christmas cards. I looked at my little pile, compared to his HUGE one, and at first I thought, why don't I have more people to send Christmas cards to?

Then I looked at his pile and realized that he was sending cards to the insurance man, old bosses, old co-workers, distant relatives, people he had to go on the internet to find their addresses...and I asked him, "When's the last time you spoke to any of these people?"

He blinked a couple of times and said, "I don't know. Years."
I humbly submit to you that that's the wrong answer. If he had given a moment's thought about it he probably would have said "Doesn't matter. It's networking. I gotta do this to keep advancing in my career." You've mentioned what he does for a living, and presuming you want his continued success I wouldn't be too discourage or questioning of such activities...

Shady Lane
12-15-2007, 06:59 AM
Life's what you make it... So's Christmas, I think.

Excellent.


With regards to Christmas decorations, my family has never done very much. My family, by the way, is my Jewish father, my Christian mother, and my sister and me. My sister is eighteen, two years older than me, and now a freshman in college. We are very very close.

Today we decorated the tree without her for the first time, and I think we all felt a little lonely.

A few weeks ago, I came home from school and the house was covered in wearths and lights and evergreen branches. It was beautiful, and nothing like we've ever had.

My Mom walked out of the kitchen, flour on her hands from the Christmas cookies.

She said, "I just want to get slapped in the face my Christmas this year."

If you'll excuse my saying so, sometimes there's nothing better than a good slap in the face.

Jersey Chick
12-15-2007, 07:27 AM
I
1) Christmas lights. They are a) and eyesore, b) dangerous to put up, and c) waste a tremendous amount of electricity. Also, because there's no Boxing Day, there's nothing to curb this waste of electricity and d) so a lot of times people are wasting electricity on Christmas from November through February, long past the Christmas season.
I think my house looks very nice all lit up. And my husband took a lot of pride in hanging those "eyesores" since it's our first Christmas in a real house. With the snow and icicles on the trees, the front looks like a Christmas card. As for electricity, I hardly doubt my lights are sucking up nearly as much as my central AC will this summer when it runs from late May until late September.

The next town over seems to do whatever it can to be the town of Griswolds when it comes to decorations. I think some of them can be seen from space. And they are hideous. But my daughter loves to look at them and try to figure out who really has the worst taste in decorating. It's something of a joke now. So even though they probably are eyesores - it's still funny to look at.

2) The music. It's played over and over nonstop in commercial places and on the TV. Nothing wrong with it in and of itself, but, haven't they proven that listening to the same song over and over again can drive a person insane? Even if that's not true, it's extremely annoying.
I'd rather listen to the Jingle Cats over and over than be forced to listen to Kenny G's elevator version of "Funkytown."

4) It throws people into a tizzy. Even if you're not Christian, you have to buy everyone gifts! It's caused a) other traditionally non-important holidays to adopt a Christmas-like attitude to keep things representatively correct, and it also b) crowds and congests commercial centers so much that people who are trying to buy the basic necessities can't get through those trying to buy for Christmas. Crowds are impossible to avoid, especially the closer and closer to Christmas it is. It also c) racks up a lot of debt right before tax season. That seems a bit cruel, doesn't it? At least birthdays are usually spread across the year, but on Christmas everyone's buying at the same time.

No one is forced to spend what they don't have. Nothing is stopping anyone from setting a budget and sticking to it. Just because an ad tells someone they just have to have the latest thing, doesn't mean that someone has to buy it. Since my kids came along, and my niece was born, my brother and his wife, and my husband and I don't do gifts any more - we give to the kids. All anyone has to do is speak up. It doesn't hurt, it isn't embarassing. It's just reality. And my kids aren't getting a Wii or PS whatever number they're on. So if someone spends beyond their means, in the end, it's their fault, not Madison Avenue or the Joneses or whomever.

6) The stress. Ignore the song, it most certainly is NOT the 'most wonderful time of the year.' Everybody feels the need to be 'festive' during Christmas under threat of being called a Scrooge or a Grinch. Along with Christmas, many students have finals and other end-of-semester worries to worry about on top of remembering if they got gifts for all of their friends.
I beg to differ. I love this time of the year. I love the fact that my family - which is pretty spread out - will actually all be together under one roof. I love the fact that my mom will make Wassail and it won't be long before we're all laughing like idiots over something that happened ten years ago, but it's still as funny. I love the look on my daughter's face when she goes downstairs and sees that Santa really was there, or how my two year old thinks the wrapping papers is infinitely more interesting than what's inside it.

It's as stressful as you let it become. My husband finally went back to work after being on disability for almost four months. We just bought a house and have mortgage payments for the first time ever. I'm cooking dinner for the entire family on Christmas Day, which is something I've never done before - so believe me, it would be so easy to let it stress me out. But it really isn't about what's in the box under the tree - it's about the fact that, like I said, my family will be together. All of us. And if that's simple and cliche, so be it, but it's also true.

7) And then it's all over, right on December 26th. Which is pretty ridiculous for something that lasts since the middle of October, isn't it? It just suddenly ends, just like that, and yet there are still commercials with Christmas songs, and of course there's overproduction of Christmas things, which the stores all sell at 70% off the day after. And why should there be any more celebration after that, anyway? Those who were getting gifts got theirs, and all there's left to deal with is the debt and endless cleanup.

Great time to replace the decorations that got broken, or the ornaments that didn't survive. And who cares if they put it on sale the next day? That's not relegated to Christmas - that happens after every holiday.

Christmas, as it is now, is a pain in the ass. Go to Mass and give gifts to your kids, but please, can't we do without the Christmas season?

Never. I have the warmest memories of Christmas and I want my kids to experience that. No one has the right to try to take that from me. It's like anything else, if you don't like it - that's cool. Don't take part in it. But that doesn't mean that someone else can't enjoy it.

Merry Christmas. :)

choppersmom
12-15-2007, 07:33 AM
2) The music. i'll take 'winter wonderland' over that goddamn beyonce 'upgrade me' commercial being played 20 times an hour any day.

:hooray::hooray::hooray::hooray:

:Clap::Clap::Clap::Clap:
:e2cheer::e2cheer::e2cheer:

choppersmom
12-15-2007, 07:45 AM
I'm just fed up with the whole consumerism thing. You must buy Christmas presents. You also better buy your wife a Valentine's day present, your mother a mother's day present, your father a father's day present, etc.

Very good point, and don't forget anniversaries (better get her that diamond!), birthdays (isn't 37 an important one?), and keeping up with the Joneses ("But Denise has the 2008 Escalade! I HAVE to have the Lexus!"). See, it's not just Christmas! How about just letting those of us who actually enjoy the season, enjoy it in peace? OK, so it's a little over the top commercialism-wise, but lots of businesses would go under if it wasn't for Christmas. Seems like it might be a good thing that so many people buy so much stuff!

I want to have have a Holly Jolly Christmas, and I want to have a cup of cheer. Does that really hurt anyone?

BenPanced
12-15-2007, 07:46 AM
I'm thinking of continuing a tradition I'd started a few years ago and wear black on Christmas Eve to work. For the longest time, I wore black on all "color" holidays, i.e., when everybody else was wearing pink, red, and white for Valentine's Day or green and yellow for St. Patrick's Day.

Nobody got it, though.

choppersmom
12-15-2007, 07:49 AM
I've had some broke Christmases indeed, when as a single mom, having the power not shut off and oil in the burner were our presents, and the tree was the evergreen outside our window, decorated by the cardinals who came and went. The presents we gave were visiting the lonely, since we had nothing else to give. Were those lesser Christmases? You decide.

This sounds like the most lovely of all possible holidays, or any-old-days, no matter what your faith. Mother Nature's ornaments, and a giving spirit to light the candles in the heart.

Hapax Legomenon
12-15-2007, 07:54 AM
Very good point, and don't forget anniversaries (better get her that diamond!), birthdays (isn't 37 an important one?), and keeping up with the Joneses ("But Denise has the 2008 Escalade! I HAVE to have the Lexus!"). See, it's not just Christmas! How about just letting those of us who actually enjoy the season, enjoy it in peace? OK, so it's a little over the top commercialism-wise, but lots of businesses would go under if it wasn't for Christmas. Seems like it might be a good thing that so many people buy so much stuff!

I want to have have a Holly Jolly Christmas, and I want to have a cup of cheer. Does that really hurt anyone?

The other commercialism things aren't being thrown into your face as much as Christmas is, whether you like Christmas or not. I can't enjoy the season in peace. How is this tizzy peace? How are the crazed crowds peace? I see no peace.

If your spouse and your friends and family understand about anniversaries and birthdays, then there's little problem. Keeping up with the Joneses? that's just ridiculous and entirely your choice.

Christmas, however, has long, long, long, LONG precedence of heckling those who don't like it and want no part in it. It's been preached into a part of society. You can't avoid it, either. There's really nothing you can do. Even if I lock myself in my room, Christmas still manages to find me there and whip me silly. You can't win.

William Haskins
12-15-2007, 07:55 AM
Why thank you for thinking of my well being.

do you have any idea how ridiculous it is that you're basically advocating nothing BUT your "well-being" at the expense of something millions of people feel enhances their well-being?

what other mass cultural traditions can we do away with so that you feel better about yourself?

should we also go ahead and amend physics so that the world really does revolve around you?

if i were jesus i'd expedite the second coming and come back and kick your ass.

MacAllister
12-15-2007, 07:58 AM
Ultimately, historically, and at the core of the matter, still - Christmas/Solstice/Yule holidays are about hope, and about love. All the commercialism in the world doesn't negate that.

And yes, I have one of those houses you can see from space.

Hapax Legomenon
12-15-2007, 07:59 AM
do you have any idea how ridiculous it is that you're basically advocating nothing BUT your "well-being" at the expense of something millions of people feel enhances their well-being?

what other mass cultural traditions can we do away with so that you feel better about yourself?

should we also go ahead and amend physics so that the world really does revolve around you?

if i were jesus i'd expedite the second coming and come back and kick your ass.

So I'm not allowed to rant anymore?

Let's silence it all. Nobody's allowed to complain. Ever.

Don't think I don't realize that doing away with this is impossible, an absolutely futile attempt. I'm not that stupid.

It's a rant phrased as a proposal, if you couldn't tell.

choppersmom
12-15-2007, 08:02 AM
I love the fact that my mom will make Wassail and it won't be long before we're all laughing like idiots over something that happened ten years ago, but it's still as funny.

Mmm...Wassail...Where's my teapot, I'm comin' over...:e2drunk:

choppersmom
12-15-2007, 08:09 AM
The other commercialism things aren't being thrown into your face as much as Christmas is, whether you like Christmas or not. I can't enjoy the season in peace. How is this tizzy peace? How are the crazed crowds peace? I see no peace.

If your spouse and your friends and family understand about anniversaries and birthdays, then there's little problem. Keeping up with the Joneses? that's just ridiculous and entirely your choice.

Christmas, however, has long, long, long, LONG precedence of heckling those who don't like it and want no part in it. It's been preached into a part of society. You can't avoid it, either. There's really nothing you can do. Even if I lock myself in my room, Christmas still manages to find me there and whip me silly. You can't win.
City sidewalk, busy sidewalks
Dressed in holiday style.
In the air there's a feeling of Christmas.

Children laughing, people passing,
Meeting smile after smile,
And on every street corner you'll hear:

Silver bells
Silver bells
It's Christmastime in the city.
Ring-a-ling, hear them ring,
Soon it will be Christmas day.

City street lights,
Even stop lights,
Blink a bright red and green,
As the shoppers rush home with their treasures.

Hear the snow crunch,
See the kids bunch,
This is Santa's big scene,
And above all this bustle you'll hear:

Silver bells
Silver bells
It's Christmastime in the city.
Ring-a-ling, hear them ring,
Soon it will be Christmas day.

MacAllister
12-15-2007, 08:12 AM
Oh please. Now you want to be pissy because some people fervently disagree with your rant? What on earth did you expect when you titled the thread? Where on earth did anyone propose you be "silenced" - I'd really like to know?

So I'm not allowed to rant anymore?

Let's silence it all. Nobody's allowed to complain. Ever.

Don't think I don't realize that doing away with this is impossible, an absolutely futile attempt. I'm not that stupid.

It's a rant phrased as a proposal, if you couldn't tell.

William Haskins
12-15-2007, 08:17 AM
So I'm not allowed to rant anymore?

see, how it works is you're perfectly free to rant, but others are as well.

if you want to rant and have people simply humor you, you should go to the local street corner.

Don Allen
12-15-2007, 08:18 AM
For once I'm not going to comment on anything any one individual on this post said, but I do have to say my God most of you people really don't get it, and that's a damn shame. You know this is pretty much a shit world we've created for ourselves. The vast majority of the people on this planet live in object poverty or under some sort of authoritarian rule that strips them of their dignity. Christmas, with all it's commercialism, exploitation and gaudiness for lack of a better word is prehaps the single greatest testament to the slim possibility that man may just not destroy himself.

Christmas is good... You don't have to be a Christian, Jew, Muslim, or Pagan to find Christmas in your heart. Many of the rants belittling Christmas here reek of selfishness and anger at a society that, with all it's ills, trys to set aside a time where instead of thinking about ourselves, we think about others, and those less fortunate. All of us who participate on this web site are suppose to have some knowledge of writers that came before us, yet not one post mentions the work of Charles Dickens (May I say one of the greatest writers of all time) How is it that he was able to sum up so elequantly the meaning of Christmas with his work "The Christmas Carol".

I know that people can find fault with anything, and by all means anyone who wishes to hate Christmas because it dosen't fit your ideals is free to do so with best wishes. BUT consider this, if you will: Is it so terrible that people feel forced to be nice to each other once a year? (we're actually forced to pay to taxes, and I think that's far worse).... Is buying a gift for a friend or a relative or perhaps a child such a dastardly act that it causes someone to stress to the point of depression. (The beauty of Christmas is that no one forces you do buy anything for anyone, a willing act of kindness to someone in need is far superior to meaningless gifts).... The sights and sounds of Christmas are so incredibly wonderful it's actually hard to imagine people find them distasteful. (In contrast we have been engaged in a war for the last 7 years that splashes images of death and destruction at us on a daily basis, I would give everything I own to be bombarded with the images of Christmas day in and day out instead of the brutality of war)

Finally... I have to say that I truly feel sorry for those of you who hardened to the point of giving up on this holiday, maybe someday you'll remember how glorious Christmas can be if you just let in...

I'm sure the next few posts will include the words ....tosser, loser, jerk, idiot or some derogatory remarks in my direction for this post, but I will say this to each and every one of you from the bottom of my heart that I wish you the Merriest Christmas EVER, and hope that even if you post somthing nasty, you'll think just a little bit about the wonders of Christmas, if you'll just open up and let it happen....

Hapax Legomenon
12-15-2007, 08:19 AM
see, how it works is you're perfectly free to rant, but others are as well.

if you want to rant and have people simply humor you, you should go to the local street corner.

I should have you know that I haven't been allowed on the local street corner in years.

:P

BarbJ
12-15-2007, 08:19 AM
I'm a Christian, celebrate the birth of Christ and have no desire to do it in hiding, love Christmas lights and have on embarassing occasions discovered myself gaping like a fascinated child, think the decorations consisting of plastic snowmen and Santas lying deflated on the grass (I'm in California) are really stupid, stopped buying presents - with due notice - several years ago and give the money to charity, agree that if the consumerism doesn't run amok on this holiday it will on another, think those who don't want to recognize the holiday shouldn't be forced to but feel equally strongly those of us who do should be allowed this same freedom, suggest timidly that if not celebrating one should not take the day off because it seems a little hypocritical - if the business is closed, volunteer at a hospital or senior center or picking trash out of the gutter - and get really, really tired of hearing it's a pagan holiday "not that it matters".

We know the day was chosen to counter the pagan celebrations and it is not the actual date of Christ's birth, especially since the shepards wouldn't have been sleeping out in the open in winter. We know the visitors, the "wise men" ,were not necessarily three, and they didn't come to a stable shortly after the birth but to a house when Jesus was about a year old. We know there's a lot of myth surrounding what we believe is a reality. Be kind. If not for the sake of this holiday, than for the sake of a bright new year.

I also love Christmas carols, but sometimes think if I hear the same Christmas "jingles" one more time, I'll run screaming into the streets. There's good and bad in all things.

Shady Lane
12-15-2007, 08:19 AM
For once I'm not going to comment on anything any one individual on this post said, but I do have to say my God most of you people really don't get it, and that's a damn shame. You know this is pretty much a shit world we've created for ourselves. The vast majority of the people on this planet live in object poverty or under some sort of authoritarian rule that strips them of their dignity. Christmas, with all it's commercialism, exploitation and gaudiness for lack of a better word is prehaps the single greatest testament to the slim possibility that man may just not destroy himself.

Christmas is good... You don't have to be a Christian, Jew, Muslim, or Pagan to find Christmas in your heart. Many of the rants belittling Christmas here reek of selfishness and anger at a society that, with all it's ills, trys to set aside a time where instead of thinking about ourselves, we think about others, and those less fortunate. All of us who participate on this web site are suppose to have some knowledge of writers that came before us, yet not one post mentions the work of Charles Dickens (May I say one of the greatest writers of all time) How is it that he was able to sum up so elequantly the meaning of Christmas with his work "The Christmas Carol".

I know that people can find fault with anything, and by all means anyone who wishes to hate Christmas because it dosen't fit your ideals is free to do so with best wishes. BUT consider this, if you will: Is it so terrible that people feel forced to be nice to each other once a year? (we're actually forced to pay to taxes, and I think that's far worse).... Is buying a gift for a friend or a relative or perhaps a child such a dastardly act that it causes someone to stress to the point of depression. (The beauty of Christmas is that no one forces you do buy anything for anyone, a willing act of kindness to someone in need is far superior to meaningless gifts).... The sights and sounds of Christmas are so incredibly wonderful it's actually hard to imagine people find them distasteful. (In contrast we have been engaged in a war for the last 7 years that splashes images of death and destruction at us on a daily basis, I would give everything I own to be bombarded with the images of Christmas day in and day out instead of the brutality of war)

Finally... I have to say that I truly feel sorry for those of you who hardened to the point of giving up on this holiday, maybe someday you'll remember how glorious Christmas can be if you just let in...

I'm sure the next few posts will include the words ....tosser, loser, jerk, idiot or some derogatory remarks in my direction for this post, but I will say this to each and every one of you from the bottom of my that I wish you the Merriest Christmas EVER, and hope that even if you post somthing nasty, you'll think just a little bit about the wonders of Christmas, if you'll just open up and let it happen....

That actually made me cry.

Fucking brilliant.

Hapax Legomenon
12-15-2007, 08:25 AM
For once I'm not going to comment on anything any one individual on this post said, but I do have to say my God most of you people really don't get it, and that's a damn shame. You know this is pretty much a shit world we've created for ourselves. The vast majority of the people on this planet live in object poverty or under some sort of authoritarian rule that strips them of their dignity. Christmas, with all it's commercialism, exploitation and gaudiness for lack of a better word is prehaps the single greatest testament to the slim possibility that man may just not destroy himself.

Christmas is good... You don't have to be a Christian, Jew, Muslim, or Pagan to find Christmas in your heart. Many of the rants belittling Christmas here reek of selfishness and anger at a society that, with all it's ills, trys to set aside a time where instead of thinking about ourselves, we think about others, and those less fortunate. All of us who participate on this web site are suppose to have some knowledge of writers that came before us, yet not one post mentions the work of Charles Dickens (May I say one of the greatest writers of all time) How is it that he was able to sum up so elequantly the meaning of Christmas with his work "The Christmas Carol".

I know that people can find fault with anything, and by all means anyone who wishes to hate Christmas because it dosen't fit your ideals is free to do so with best wishes. BUT consider this, if you will: Is it so terrible that people feel forced to be nice to each other once a year? (we're actually forced to pay to taxes, and I think that's far worse).... Is buying a gift for a friend or a relative or perhaps a child such a dastardly act that it causes someone to stress to the point of depression. (The beauty of Christmas is that no one forces you do buy anything for anyone, a willing act of kindness to someone in need is far superior to meaningless gifts).... The sights and sounds of Christmas are so incredibly wonderful it's actually hard to imagine people find them distasteful. (In contrast we have been engaged in a war for the last 7 years that splashes images of death and destruction at us on a daily basis, I would give everything I own to be bombarded with the images of Christmas day in and day out instead of the brutality of war)

Finally... I have to say that I truly feel sorry for those of you who hardened to the point of giving up on this holiday, maybe someday you'll remember how glorious Christmas can be if you just let in...

I'm sure the next few posts will include the words ....tosser, loser, jerk, idiot or some derogatory remarks in my direction for this post, but I will say this to each and every one of you from the bottom of my heart that I wish you the Merriest Christmas EVER, and hope that even if you post somthing nasty, you'll think just a little bit about the wonders of Christmas, if you'll just open up and let it happen....

I could imagine the tone of voice you said this in so well it's scary.

I've been making everybody on my list hats for the past WEEK. I didn't have to do that, but I did anyway. And I'm still making hats. I have a lot of friends and not a lot of free time on my hands.

Even so, I have given up on the holiday. It was never mine to begin with. I have never been able to enjoy it, and I never will.

But I still make the hats.

And the food pantry accepts donations all year round.

BenPanced
12-15-2007, 08:30 AM
*banninates self from thread*

MacAllister
12-15-2007, 08:35 AM
Haphazard, here's a question - are you making hats to gift to people because you want to be able to give them something, or just because you feel obligated?

choppersmom
12-15-2007, 08:36 AM
I'm sure the next few posts will include the words ....tosser, loser, jerk, idiot or some derogatory remarks in my direction for this post, but I will say this to each and every one of you from the bottom of my heart that I wish you the Merriest Christmas EVER, and hope that even if you post somthing nasty, you'll think just a little bit about the wonders of Christmas, if you'll just open up and let it happen....

Not from me, you won't hear those words!

Bravo! Bravissimo!!

I agree, fucking brilliant.

Thank you.

Hapax Legomenon
12-15-2007, 08:38 AM
Haphazard, here's a question - are you making hats to gift to people because you want to be able to give them something, or just because you feel obligated?

I don't even know.

I make hats because I like to make hats.

People should keep their heads warm.

It's kind of hard to stop making hats once you start, if you've ever made hats before. It's something of a compulsion. I wouldn't have done it if all I was going to do was buy something. That wouldn't be worth it.

choppersmom
12-15-2007, 08:40 AM
And yes, I have one of those houses you can see from space.

Just a few more years of after-Christmas sales, and my house will blind each and every one of you, even those on other continents. There won't be one single inch that won't be plastered with lights and angels and Santas and reindeer and I don't know what all. Just you wait...!

Bravo
12-15-2007, 08:46 AM
my sources at fox news tell me that this thread will appear on o'reilly's daily "war on christmas" segment.

Hapax Legomenon
12-15-2007, 08:47 AM
my sources at fox news tell me that this thread will appear on o'reilly's daily "war on christmas" segment.

Lol.

I want to see that now.

Medievalist
12-15-2007, 08:53 AM
So I'm not allowed to rant anymore?

Let's silence it all. Nobody's allowed to complain. Ever.

Stent your duff, dude:

iijus pastor
Hayll derlyng dere: full of godhede
I pray the be nere: when that I haue nede
Hayll swete is thy chere: my hart wold blede
To se the sytt here: in so poore wede
With no pennys
Hayll put furth thy dall
I bryng the bot a ball
Haue and play the with all
And go to the tenys

Anonymous; c. 1480
The Second Shepherds' Play (http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/etcbin/toccer-new2?id=AnoTown.sgm&images=images/modeng&data=/lv1/Archive/mideng-parsed&tag=public&part=13&division=div1)
The Townley Cycle /Wakfield Drama
(http://www.litencyc.com/php/sworks.php?rec=true&UID=8418)

Cassiopeia
12-15-2007, 09:10 AM
I love Christmas! It's the one time of the year that almost everything sparkles. I look over the Salt Lake Valley from my front porch at night and I get to imagine all kinds of fairies and elves and what not because the city twinkles and virtually glows.

It's a break from the hum drum of every day life. It's a time for families and story telling around the dinner table on Christmas Day. Traditions are forged and held that bind our families together.

Every Christmas I make pies like my grandmother did and I share her stories with my kids who never got to meet her. Its a time when we slow down and enjoy each other's company.

I am sorry that some find it so tedious. Perhaps it's time to revisit your perspectives and claim back the holiday that you loved as a child.

Beaker
12-15-2007, 09:32 AM
I've read all of these, and if you look at it objectively, every single poster has a good point. Christmas means very different things to different people, and there's no way to really unify the experience for everyone.

The stress. Ignore the song, it most certainly is NOT the 'most wonderful time of the year.' Everybody feels the need to be 'festive' during Christmas under threat of being called a Scrooge or a Grinch.

This struck me because we were out looking at a big Christmas light display earlier this week, and this song came on the radio. I heard it and thought there must be something wrong with me. Christmas is so stressful and so difficult for me that I dread it for months. I'm worried about paying for the presents, getting time to shop, whether the presents will be liked, I can't stand the constant traffic this time of year and now I have to sweat the evil MIL coming. The kids will be out of school, so I will be able to work fewer hours, make less money and still have to pay for everything, plus presents, somehow. I wish I could say it was the most wonderful time of the year, but personally I just wish it was over.

I do like the lights, though. And the candy. For some reason you get to eat lots of candy and no one says anything about it. That's pretty good, but you can do that on Valentine's Day too and no one objects when you say you need to work that day.

aruna
12-15-2007, 10:19 AM
http://www.scroogeyourself.com/?id=1411162728


I prefer this one, with Orion's cat! (http://www.elfyourself.com/?id=1136775473)

aruna
12-15-2007, 10:37 AM
When I first moved t England, about 7 years ago, I knew someone who lived in a very poor area of my town. I was astonished when Christmas time came around that in THIS particular part of town the houses were far more gaudily decorated than anywhere else. There seemed to be a competition between the residents as to who could put up the most lights in the gaudiest and most kitchiest combinations. In fact, every year I used to drive past this street with my kids just to get a bulge to my eyes. These people's electricity bills must be horrendous... and this is a council estate! It;s not my business if they want to do this but I do think, gawd, what a waste.

See, I never knew this in Germany. People tend to lose less decorations there, and so tastefully. They like live candles; even their trees are real firs and pines and lit with real candles. They have the most beautiful Christmas markets with mulled wine and chestnuts and so atmospheric and nostalgic. That photo at the top of the AW page looks very German! Here in England there's no comparison. It's all very commercialized and somehow gaudy. I don't feel the atmosphere at all.

Most of all, I love the music. I can hear Christmas music forever, it makes me go all fuzzy inside and takes me back to when I was a child. There's something so very special; and I think it's up to us as individuals whether we want to be seduced by the commercialism or reflect on the meaning of it all and cultivate a genuine warmth and goodwill.

Yesterday I played my first Christmas CD of the year. Among the songs was Good King Wenceslas (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcQYsujAVC0). And it took me right back to primary school when we did a play of King Wenceslas one year, and I played a maid called Miss Martha, and a big boy called Christopher Bollers was King Wenceslas. And all the words came back to me and I felt I was a child again, and I realized how even a simple song like that can carry such a great message, and how that song may have been one of the things that helped form my philospphy of life, and how much I loved my fantastic teacher Mrs Hunter who sadly died last year, and how I;d love to get in touch with some of my school mates from that time.
Yes, Christmas is GOOD.

In his master’s steps he trod, where the snow lay dinted;
Heat was in the very sod which the saint had printed.
Therefore, Christian men, be sure, wealth or rank possessing,
You who now will bless the poor shall yourselves find blessing.h

TrickyFiction
12-15-2007, 10:39 AM
I don't think the holiday is proof of man's loveliness at all, and I'm one of those people who thinks man is lovely. It's just that I'm also one of those people who worked in service, whose family has worked in service. To me, Christmas is a time of loneliness. I don't get to see the people I love most. All of December, my husband comes home and goes to sleep so he can get up early and leave again, my mother worked at the restaurant every Christmas, and I just remember extra pressure to sell at my job, longer hours. It's silly to assume this time of year should be happy and warm for everyone. To me, it's a happy time of year for those who can afford to see the ones they love. For the rest of us, it's just overtime.

That said, I'd like to repeat the fact that I like sparkly lights.

dpaterso
12-15-2007, 11:58 AM
This should'a have been a fun thread, dammit.

But it's not too late!

I Wish It Could Be Christmas Every Day - Wizzard (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ApjdOU8caMI)

-Derek

TrickyFiction
12-15-2007, 12:07 PM
I Wish It Could Be Christmas Every Day - Wizzard (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ApjdOU8caMI)

:eek: God, help me.
Did I just interrupt Notre Dame de Paris to watch that?

I am ashamed.

dpaterso
12-15-2007, 12:42 PM
I had a hunch you might be.

Come to think of it, Victor Hugo probably thinks the same about Notre Dame de Paris.

-Derek

TrickyFiction
12-15-2007, 01:40 PM
Come to think of it, Victor Hugo probably thinks the same about Notre Dame de Paris.

Blasphemy.

Anyway, I'm listening to the pretty French musics, inspired by God's gift to novels, which I bought myself for Christmas (see how I swung that back around to on-topic :D). And food. And lights. Those things are good.

kristie911
12-15-2007, 02:41 PM
I love Christmas...usually. I really do. There are things about it that I'm sick of but my 3 year old son is so excited for Christmas to get here, how can I not be excited?

I'm not excited because I have to work, both Christmas Eve and Christmas Day and I won't see my son at all...not for one second of those two days. Most likely, I won't be able to even talk to him on the phone. I bought him some great gifts...then I made the mistake of telling my ex-husband what I'd bought him so he wouldn't buy the same gifts. Well, that backfired, because the ex went out and bought him the same thing and he'll give it to him first. Yeah, he's trying to ruin my Christmas and he did a damned fucking fine job of it.

So while I don't think we should cancel Christmas because next year might be nice, everyone can take their Merry Christmases and stick it because I don't get to have a Merry Christmas this year.

But I'm trying really hard to be happy for those of you that will.

dpaterso
12-15-2007, 02:52 PM
Now that there is one damn fine reason to be pissed off. These people are pricks and you have my sympathies. But you'll make it up to him with love and kindness when you see him afterwards. What better gift?

-Derek

Bartholomew
12-15-2007, 03:37 PM
The Christmas season was a nightmare for me, growing up. Gigantic, month-long family fights--Mom was always freaking out about the budget--car trips--wrestling with the airports. Ugh.

I intend to make up for every lousy yule I've ever had in my adult years.

thethinker42
12-15-2007, 05:15 PM
But oh, to be a child at Christmas again. Just one more Christmas as a child without the weight of the season on my shoulders would be quite wonderful.

I have to agree with you on this one.

As an adult, the commercialism of Christmas has pretty much killed my Christmas spirit. It's been 6 years since the last hellish Christmas season I spent working in retail, and my Christmas spirit has never fully recovered from it.

If I could be a child from Thanksgiving until New Year's, that would rock. No worries about appeasing in-laws, getting cards out on time, last minute gifts, cooking, etc...AND, as an added bonus, not finding Christmas music so painfully annoying.

thethinker42
12-15-2007, 05:28 PM
I'm just fed up with the whole consumerism thing. You must buy Christmas presents. You also better buy your wife a Valentine's day present, your mother a mother's day present, your father a father's day present, etc.

Amen to that. I'm fine with the holidays in and of themselves, but the consumerism is out of hand.

After wasting spending a couple of years of my life selling jewelry, I became rather jaded (no pun intended) about the whole Valentine's Day thing, not to mention Christmas, etc. It was basically all this pressure on men to buy The Right Gift -- which meant it better be big, sparkly, and expensive -- so that their SO could WIN ("WIN" meaning having the biggest, sparkliest, and most expensive gift at their work/book club/Mommy and Me group/etc). Heaven help the husbands/boyfriends of the women who DIDN'T win. One year for V Day, my boyfriend sent me a HUGE arrangement of roses at work...I could barely fit the sucker in my car. My female co-workers gave me the evil eye all day, and their husbands were read the riot act for the small, but very nice, bouquets that they got. Ugh.

One year, a girl came in a few days after Valentine's Day and pointed at something in the case. She asked how much it was, so I told her. She kind of scowled about it, and that's when I noticed that she was wearing the identical piece. That's when she said, "OK, well, I just wanted to find out how much he spent," and left. DOUBLE UGH.

Valentine's Day gifts are forbidden in my house now. It took my husband 3 years to figure out that this was NOT one of those "I'm telling you not to give me anything, but you damn well better get me something" mind games...I really, truly, from the bottom of my heart....HATE VALENTINE'S DAY because of what it has become. As I tell my husband, "A single rose any other day of the year means 10x more than a dozen roses on V-Day...you're doing it because you want to, not because you have to."

Anywho...that's my Valentine's Day rant. Back to your regularly scheduled Christmas rantings...

Jersey Chick
12-15-2007, 06:50 PM
Actually, Christmas trees are good because they are replanted each year.

I worked in retail for many years - the last few in a liquor store. YOu want to see crazy, check out a liquor store from about mid-November to New Year's Eve. I worked 70 hour weeks during that time. Ended up sick as anything the last year I was there.

But you know what? The people were the nicest at that time of year. Even after they'd stood in line for a long while, or had to wait for a stock boy to be free to come up and help them, and they were still nice. A guy tipped me $20 for bagging a few bottles of wine. They were stressed, but smiling and laughing. That's one of the things I like about this season. And considering Jersey's state bird is the middle finger, that's quite a turnaround at the "worst" time of the year.

It's too bad not everyone can experience something like that - it truly is amazing. Especially considering a lot of those same people would come in for all the holidays and bitch and moan about this or that the rest of the year.

Bufty
12-15-2007, 07:24 PM
You know, Scarlet, Billy Connolly had a rough childhood, too. So did thousands and thousands of others.

Nothing can change the past, but if we didn't like it we don't need to dwell on it. What we make of our present and future is in our own hands - it's nothing to do with the folks of yesteryear.

Don't let the bastards - whoever they are - control the present and the future as well as the past.

Happy Christmas to you, whether you want it or not.:Hug2:

If only.

Christmas for me meant a beating. So, pretty much like any other day.

thethinker42
12-15-2007, 08:19 PM
I worked in retail for many years - the last few in a liquor store. YOu want to see crazy, check out a liquor store from about mid-November to New Year's Eve. I worked 70 hour weeks during that time. Ended up sick as anything the last year I was there.

That happened to me when I worked in jewelry...80 hour weeks for 6 weeks, and then we ALL got sick once the holidays were over. I swear, we actually HEARD our immune systems say "Ok, I'll keep you going until the end of this....but once it's over, you and me are gonna fight..."

But you know what? The people were the nicest at that time of year. Even after they'd stood in line for a long while, or had to wait for a stock boy to be free to come up and help them, and they were still nice. A guy tipped me $20 for bagging a few bottles of wine. They were stressed, but smiling and laughing. That's one of the things I like about this season. And considering Jersey's state bird is the middle finger, that's quite a turnaround at the "worst" time of the year.

Wow, must've been nice. Our customers were stressed, bitchy, nasty, and demanding. One actually yelled at me because I paused in the middle of wrapping her gift...to help one of my co-workers who had just dropped something and sliced her hand on a piece of broken glass!!! She even huffed and bitched when I took a minute to run into the back and wash my hands (you know, blood and stuff...) before resuming wrapping her gift. That was the kind of crap we dealt with on a daily basis. I even had our regional VP come up to me and say, in front of about a dozen customers, "What are you? Stupid?" because of how I was doing something (joke as on him -- turns out there was no other way BUT the way I was doing it).

For us, Christmas basically meant a lot more verbal abuse from BOTH sides of the counter. From Thanksgiving weekend until New Year's, we all pretty much bent over and grabbed our ankles. Not that our job was overly pleasant the rest of the year, but that season was exceptionally nasty. It's difficult to regain the Christmas spirit after that....it was about 3 years before the sight of Poinsettias didn't fill me with a sense of dread. LOL

scarletpeaches
12-15-2007, 08:22 PM
I even spoke to one of my supervisors about being spoken to like I was stupid and you know what her reply was? "Well, we're all stressed at this time of year."

Oh well, that's a good enough excuse for treating your staff like shit, isn't it? Stress.

And they have the cheek to complain the Christmas temps don't take their job seriously! Well why the hell should we when we're treated like the bottom rung of the ladder?

robeiae
12-15-2007, 08:57 PM
3) It starts earlier and earlier every year. In fact, Thanksgiving (the most American holiday there is) was pushed back a week to accomodate for a longer Christmas season, but that's STILL not enough. I've seen Christmas advertisements and sales and decorations up BEFORE Halloween. Seriously. And this is awful because:


Where do I sign the petition? #2 and #3 are particularly annoying. Well, I'm not a fan of #5 or #6 either. Quick...where do I sign!

I used to love Christmas time. I still love the lights! But when they started putting up Christmas decorations in the stores before Halloween, I said, "Bah-humbug".Just to throw a little reality in here...Christmas decor and advertising has started as early as Halloween for a long, long time. You probably just notice it now because there are more people, more businesses and because you're older.

Jersey Chick
12-15-2007, 09:58 PM
Tell that to the trees that are killed. I'm sure it'll make them feel better. The trees that are replanted take several years to mature and then they, too, are cut down in their prime.

Umm... Okay... I don't really even know where to go with this - So, I should buy an artificial tree that will last a few years and then wind up in a landfill, where it won't degrade and enrich anything - while my live tree is mulched and composted to make healthy soil for new trees.


Wow, must've been nice. Our customers were stressed, bitchy, nasty, and demanding. One actually yelled at me because I paused in the middle of wrapping her gift...to help one of my co-workers who had just dropped something and sliced her hand on a piece of broken glass!!! She even huffed and bitched when I took a minute to run into the back and wash my hands (you know, blood and stuff...) before resuming wrapping her gift. That was the kind of crap we dealt with on a daily basis. I even had our regional VP come up to me and say, in front of about a dozen customers, "What are you? Stupid?" because of how I was doing something (joke as on him -- turns out there was no other way BUT the way I was doing it).

For us, Christmas basically meant a lot more verbal abuse from BOTH sides of the counter. From Thanksgiving weekend until New Year's, we all pretty much bent over and grabbed our ankles. Not that our job was overly pleasant the rest of the year, but that season was exceptionally nasty. It's difficult to regain the Christmas spirit after that....it was about 3 years before the sight of Poinsettias didn't fill me with a sense of dread. LOL

Ouch... that sounds like the customers all the rest of the year :D Although, that's one of the reasons I try to avoid the mall like the plague this time of the year. My SIL is in the jewelry biz and says the same thing about her customers (though she is gifted in restraint and doesn't tell them exactly what she thinks of them - which I could NEVER do.)

I guess all the liquor store people were happy because they knew they'd be tanked in a few hours. :D

thethinker42
12-15-2007, 10:22 PM
Ouch... that sounds like the customers all the rest of the year :D Although, that's one of the reasons I try to avoid the mall like the plague this time of the year. My SIL is in the jewelry biz and says the same thing about her customers (though she is gifted in restraint and doesn't tell them exactly what she thinks of them - which I could NEVER do.)

Oh, I was always able to keep a smile on my face and take it without telling them what I thought but believe me, my imagination ran wild while they were ranting. I think someone on this board once said something along the lines of "don't piss off a writer -- they're the only people who, while you were talking, have thought of a least a dozen ways to kill you". That's certainly true for me. LOL

I guess all the liquor store people were happy because they knew they'd be tanked in a few hours. :D

Good point. My customers were probably bitter because, deep down, they knew they'd just shelled out entirely too much money on a piece of gravel (I knew it was time to leave the jewelry business when I said, in response to "what do you do for a living?", that I "sell rocks to rich people"...)

Ugh, I am so glad I don't do retail anymore. LOL

thethinker42
12-15-2007, 10:23 PM
Instead of killing trees, why not go and hug one? That could be your Christmas present to the tree.

Last time I hugged a tree, it dropped a spider down the back of my shirt.

I won't kill a tree as long as it doesn't drop anymore spiders on me. Consider it a non-aggression pact.

Shady Lane
12-15-2007, 10:26 PM
Umm... Okay... I don't really even know where to go with this - So, I should buy an artificial tree that will last a few years and then wind up in a landfill, where it won't degrade and enrich anything - while my live tree is mulched and composted to make healthy soil for new trees.

Amen to that.

And...trees have feelings?

I'm really not going to get inot that, except that last time I checked you need a brain to have feelings. And unless AP Bio was lies lies lies...

Jersey Chick
12-15-2007, 10:27 PM
I'm not arguing about trees' feelings. I get a live one every year and I'm not about to stop. If the trees complain, I'll think about it, but as long as they keep quiet...

Besides, our township collects them and chips them for mulch - you just put it out and they come and take it away. We'll put ours in the woods behind the house when we're done, and so will a lot of other people. Not to mention the christmas tree farmers who count on those trees to help feed their families.

To go by that argument, we shouldn't eat vegetables, or cut flowers or even mow our lawns.


Good point. My customers were probably bitter because, deep down, they knew they'd just shelled out entirely too much money on a piece of gravel (I knew it was time to leave the jewelry business when I said, in response to "what do you do for a living?", that I "sell rocks to rich people"...)

Ugh, I am so glad I don't do retail anymore. LOL

You and me both! :D

WendyNYC
12-15-2007, 10:30 PM
To go by that argument, we shouldn't eat vegetables, or cut flowers or even mow our lawns.




You MOW your LAWN?! Barbarian! http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif

Jersey Chick
12-15-2007, 10:32 PM
Hee hee... I laugh while I prune the hedges and cackle when I cut lilacs to make my room smell all pretty-like! :D


bwahahaha!

Cassiopeia
12-15-2007, 10:49 PM
I love Christmas...usually. I really do. There are things about it that I'm sick of but my 3 year old son is so excited for Christmas to get here, how can I not be excited?

I'm not excited because I have to work, both Christmas Eve and Christmas Day and I won't see my son at all...not for one second of those two days. Most likely, I won't be able to even talk to him on the phone. I bought him some great gifts...then I made the mistake of telling my ex-husband what I'd bought him so he wouldn't buy the same gifts. Well, that backfired, because the ex went out and bought him the same thing and he'll give it to him first. Yeah, he's trying to ruin my Christmas and he did a damned fucking fine job of it.

So while I don't think we should cancel Christmas because next year might be nice, everyone can take their Merry Christmases and stick it because I don't get to have a Merry Christmas this year.

But I'm trying really hard to be happy for those of you that will.Kristie Kristie *shakes head* I wish I had known you speak to your ex about things. I could have saved you. I used to tell my ex things that i was going to get my son and he'd run out and get them or better. I keep quiet now. I told my kids, "listen, give your Dad a completely different wish list". HA! It works :D

Of course your boy is too little to write it himself but you could write it for him. :)

*hugs* you should PM me your phone number and I'll phone you on Christmas Day ;)

WendyNYC
12-15-2007, 10:51 PM
You know these trees come from tree farms, right? It's not like they are all cut from national parks. The trees wouldn't even be there if they weren't planted for this sole purpose. The land would probably be used for yet another McMansion development.

Jersey Chick
12-15-2007, 10:51 PM
Well, technically, I didn't kill any trees. They were already dying when I got them.

I don't like fake trees. I don't like the way they look, I don't like the way they smell. I love the way my house smells like Christmas - and I think it looks pretty all done up in my living room. I recycle every scrap of paper and every freakin' tin can in my house. I recycle used motor oil. I set my heat low and my AC high, I don't top off my gas tank, I keep my tires properly inflated and my car regularly serviced. I don't drive if I don't have to. If I want a live tree, and that makes me a tree-killer, I can live with that.

choppersmom
12-15-2007, 10:56 PM
I bought him some great gifts...then I made the mistake of telling my ex-husband what I'd bought him so he wouldn't buy the same gifts. Well, that backfired, because the ex went out and bought him the same thing and he'll give it to him first. Yeah, he's trying to ruin my Christmas and he did a damned fucking fine job of it.

Ohhh, this sucks, but it's so easy to avoid next time! OK, here's what you do: Go out and find, say, ten things you want to get your son for Christmas. Buy five of them. Tell your ex you bought the OTHER five. He'll think he's duplicating your list again, and your son will get it all!

I'm sorry you're having such a bad time of it this Christmas. Try to feel better, and look at it this way: The lines to return stuff are short now anyway, you can always get something else. Just don't tell the ex!

thethinker42
12-15-2007, 11:01 PM
Thinker, the spider was a gift to you from the tree. :D

But I don't LIKE them!!! Not on me, at least. And it touched me where my bathing suit covers. BAD SPIDEY TOUCH, BAD SPIDEY TOUCH...

thethinker42
12-15-2007, 11:03 PM
hugs* you should PM me your phone number and I'll phone you on Christmas Day ;)

Isn't it 911???

Rolling Thunder
12-15-2007, 11:07 PM
Thinker, the spider was a gift to you from the tree. :D

Shady Lane -- if trees are killed, there won't be any shady lanes for you to enjoy. Trees don't have brains, but they do have feelings. Sensitive people can feel their vibes.

It makes me want to cry when people kill trees. I'm an environmentalist (though some people will take out the beginning and end of that word) and I'll do my part to save all the trees I can.

And, FWIW, all my books are printed on recycled paper.

Do carrots scream when they're ripped from the womb of Mother Earth? Just wondering...

Angelinity
12-15-2007, 11:07 PM
But oh, to be a child at Christmas again. Just one more Christmas as a child without the weight of the season on my shoulders would be quite wonderful.

next time around....maybe (depending on -- well, you know: WHERE you be next time around).

Jersey Chick
12-15-2007, 11:12 PM
Who wants eggnog?

Rolling Thunder
12-15-2007, 11:18 PM
Did you come out screaming when you were ripped from your mother's womb? Just wondering ...

Perhaps. But, you've avoided the question by asking your own. So, which is it? If your logic is correct, even Vegans are murderers.

scarletpeaches
12-15-2007, 11:20 PM
I was, from my mother's womb, untimely rip'd.

choppersmom
12-15-2007, 11:24 PM
Who wants eggnog?

Do you need to ask me twice?

Siddow
12-15-2007, 11:29 PM
This is a thread for Scrooges, not vegans.

We cut our own tree from the tree farm down the street, spiders included. I'd like to stop the tradition (for the spiders, not trying to put the farm out of business), but the kids love it, and I love the smell of the tree. I take mine to a recycling center, usually, but I will admit to setting fire to one in my own yard.

By that time, it's dead, has lived out the purpose of its life, and cremation seems...suitable.

Jersey Chick
12-15-2007, 11:41 PM
When I was a kid, our tree went out in the woods to "make a home for the animals" - we built housing developments for squirrels... :D

TrickyFiction
12-16-2007, 12:36 AM
I will admit to setting fire to one in my own yard.

Did you continue to feed and care for the fire after that, or did you just leave it to starve to death?
Fire has feelings too, you know. :e2arms: Hug a fire this Christmas.

Jersey Chick
12-16-2007, 12:40 AM
But stock up on gauze pads, bandage rolls, and Silvadene cream first. :D

xhouseboy
12-16-2007, 12:45 AM
This thread is about what we don't like about Christmas. I don't like that trees are killed and I shared my reasons for it. No one has to agree with me or feel the same way. Didn't intend to get into an argument about it.

Peace on Earth, Good Will, Joy to the World, and all that other stuff.

I too share your sentiments about trees, but for completely different reasons.

We've got a couple in the back garden, and I'm forever being hassled about trimming them.

I used to fall back on the excuse that I'd read this article that recommended letting your garden get out of control benefits the wildlife. But it was getting kind of old.

You've given me a new get-out clause. I will now refuse to inflict violence on a tree, but I'll have to stop short of hugging it if there's to be even the slightest chance that I'm going to be believed.

justJM
12-16-2007, 12:54 AM
I like the lights and the music. I don't want to see (or hear, as the case may be) them before the day after Thanksgiving. And I've found that the stress is nearly all self-imposed. Now, I buy gifts for my children and if I see something I know someone else would enjoy - I buy that too. I do not get upset if I don't get presents from everyone who claims to like me and I let this be known well in advance. I invite over people who I enjoy and attend the events that feel obligatory with the attitude that, if nothing else, it's an opportunity to show up somewhere dressed in something spiffy.

And I know I'm mature because I now fully realize that food and well-wishes are awesome presents.

Christmas is great.

Siddow
12-16-2007, 12:55 AM
It's pitiful that you feel you have to make fun of people for what they believe.

Hey! I'm the one she suggested go hug a fire!

I politely declined. :D

WendyNYC
12-16-2007, 01:02 AM
It's pitiful that you feel you have to make fun of people for what they believe.


Do you believe that plants feel pain and it's wrong to harvest them? I'm not making fun, I'm truly wondering. And if so, I'm wondering what it is that you eat?

WendyNYC
12-16-2007, 01:25 AM
Fair enough. Thanks for answering.

Jersey Chick
12-16-2007, 01:28 AM
Aerosol cans are usually bad for the environment as well. And then there's the can leftover - I should throw out a bunch of them to save a Christmas tree that was grown to be a Christmas tree? I fail to see the logic in that at all.

It's different only because you don't like someone cutting down trees. A plant's a plant's a plant, isn't it? What about roses or even weeds? Roses look pretty outside, but they also look pretty in a vase. Or cotton to make clothes. Or flax to make linen.

That's like saying you don't eat meat because it's animal, yet you wear leather or suede.

And I happen to like the tradition as well - but I suppose that should go out the window, along with the ornaments that have been passed down through the years, and the ones my kid made in school.

I think it's time for me to bow out of here before I post something I'll regret. And I have to go help Jersey Guy put up our tree.

justJM
12-16-2007, 01:28 AM
You can buy aerosal sprays that smell like pine trees. Oi. I'm sure that's fantastically healthy.

I can see the argument for artificial trees, but for those who prefer the real thing, the salve (weak as it may be) is that the pines and conifers are some of the fastest growing trees out there and easily replenished. I suppose that's why we haven't run out yet.

KTC
12-16-2007, 02:10 AM
holy crap. i thought this thread was in jest. apparently there are anti-christmas police and christmas-police. Who knew?

WendyNYC
12-16-2007, 02:40 AM
I was wondering why someone so festively dressed would be anti-Christmas. But I thought perhaps you had Multiple Personality Disorder, what with the KTC/Sebby and all that.

robeiae
12-16-2007, 02:55 AM
He has multiple disorder disorder. It's a subject best left alone. Trust me.

Novelust
12-16-2007, 02:58 AM
My office advertised for its 'Secret Santa' program weeks ago. I thought it was just a 'you get them a small gift, someone gets you a small gift' thing.

WRONG.

For four days, you get some random person a small gift (they approximated a 5$ value) every day. Then on the fifth day, you get them a big gift (approx. 15$ value). That's 35 bucks before wrapping paper, shopping, and planning.

Pardon me, but WTF? No. I'm going to instead spend 3.50$ to make my officemates some Christmas cookies.

Also, there is a 'Christmas Lottery!' happening. Everyone who wants to participate buys lottery tickets or scratch offs and puts them in a pot. For each ticket, the donator gets a name in the drawing - and at the end, they pick a name from the drawing and that person gets the whole pile of tickets.

I guess I'm just sad that Christmas lately hasn't seemed so much, 'Hey, man, Merry Christmas!' and more, 'Come on, come on, come on, go Santa, Big Money, Big Money, No Whammies, STOP!'

scarletpeaches
12-16-2007, 03:00 AM
Yes, I believe that plants have feelings. There have been scientific studies done which have proven this. Yes, I eat veggies. If that makes me a hypocrite, so be it. Killing veggies to eat them is quite different from killing trees simply because you like the smell of them in your house or because they look so pretty in your house. You can buy aerosal sprays that smell like pine trees. And trees look much prettier in their natural setting.

Now, can we get back on topic, please?

Hold on, I'll come outside and join you to look at those beautiful trees.

But it's very cold outside, so give me a minute to pull on my fur coat made from screaming gerbils, with bloody rabbits' feet trim.

Novelust
12-16-2007, 03:01 AM
Hold on, I'll come outside and join you to look at those beautiful trees.

But it's very cold outside, so give me a minute to pull on my fur coat made from screaming gerbils, with bloody rabbits' feet trim.


Baby seal is a much better insulator.

justJM
12-16-2007, 03:04 AM
My office advertised for its 'Secret Santa' program weeks ago. I thought it was just a 'you get them a small gift, someone gets you a small gift' thing.

WRONG.

For four days, you get some random person a small gift (they approximated a 5$ value) every day. Then on the fifth day, you get them a big gift (approx. 15$ value). That's 35 bucks before wrapping paper, shopping, and planning.

Pardon me, but WTF? No. I'm going to instead spend 3.50$ to make my officemates some Christmas cookies.

Also, there is a 'Christmas Lottery!' happening. Everyone who wants to participate buys lottery tickets or scratch offs and puts them in a pot. For each ticket, the donator gets a name in the drawing - and at the end, they pick a name from the drawing and that person gets the whole pile of tickets.

I guess I'm just sad that Christmas lately hasn't seemed so much, 'Hey, man, Merry Christmas!' and more, 'Come on, come on, come on, go Santa, Big Money, Big Money, No Whammies, STOP!'Good lord. That's awful. Someone's been to too many team-building seminars.

PattiTheWicked
12-16-2007, 03:06 AM
My office advertised for its 'Secret Santa' program weeks ago. I thought it was just a 'you get them a small gift, someone gets you a small gift' thing.

WRONG.

For four days, you get some random person a small gift (they approximated a 5$ value) every day. Then on the fifth day, you get them a big gift (approx. 15$ value). That's 35 bucks before wrapping paper, shopping, and planning.

Next year, why not suggest that the office adopt a needy family through one of your local social service agencies? If you had ten people in your office, $350 would buy a shitload of gifts and food for a poor mom and her kids. Plus, you get the benefit of (a) feeling good about yourself and (b) not getting a bunch of crappy $5 gifts you don't want.

Novelust
12-16-2007, 03:08 AM
Next year, why not suggest that the office adopt a needy family through one of your local social service agencies? If you had ten people in your office, $350 would buy a shitload of gifts and food for a poor mom and her kids. Plus, you get the benefit of (a) feeling good about yourself and (b) not getting a bunch of crappy $5 gifts you don't want.

Stop, stop! You're making far too much sense! :)

justJM
12-16-2007, 03:10 AM
My daughter's school found a very interesting charity for the children of incarcerated parents. I never thought about this, but a little goodwill towards a child in a time where they are not only a parent (or two) down, but growing up in the shadow of crime and all the privations that can come with it could mean a lot.

At least I hope that's the way it works. I liked the sound of it, anyway.

scarletpeaches
12-16-2007, 03:11 AM
Hey, here's a weirdo idea.

Why not just do good deeds all the year round and quit making a big show of it?

Shady Lane
12-16-2007, 03:14 AM
Hey, here's a weirdo idea.

Why not just do good deeds all the year round and quit making a big show of it?


"It's not the things you do at Christmas
But the Christmas things you do all year through."


Just sayin'.

Jersey Chick
12-16-2007, 03:16 AM
Some of us do - and don't make a show of it.

William Haskins
12-16-2007, 03:17 AM
Hey, maybe Ill dye my hair
Maybe Ill move somewhere
Maybe Ill get a car
Maybe Ill drive so far
Theyll all lose track
Me, Ill bounce right back
Maybe Ill sleep real late
Maybe Ill lose some weight
Maybe Ill clear my junk
Maybe Ill just get drunk on apple wine
Me, Ill be just

Fine and dandy
Lord its like a hard candy christmas
Im barely getting through tomorrow
But still I wont let
Sorrow bring me way down

Ill be fine and dandy
Lord its like a hard candy christmas
Im barely getting through tomorrow
But still I wont let
Sorrow get me way down

Hey, maybe Ill learn to sew
Maybe Ill just lie low
Maybe Ill hit the bars
Maybe Ill count the stars until dawn
Me, I will go on

Maybe Ill settle down
Maybe Ill just leave town
Maybe Ill have some fun
Maybe Ill meet someone
And make him mine
Me, Ill be just

Fine and dandy
Lord its like a hard candy christmas
Im barely getting throung tomorrow
But still I wont let
Sorrow bring me way down

Ill be fine and dandy
Lord its like a hard candy christmas
Im barely getting through tomorrow
But still I wont let
Sorrow bring me way down

Ill be fine and dandy
Lord its like a hard candy christmas
Im barely getting through tomorrow
But still I wont let
Sorrow bring me way down

cause Ill be fine
(Ill be fine)
Oh, Ill be fine

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ErOO4WHgyI0

justJM
12-16-2007, 03:19 AM
Hey, here's a weirdo idea.

Why not just do good deeds all the year round and quit making a big show of it?Why would Christmas in any way preclude that? Celebrating festival times has been natural to mankind throughout civilization. It's one of the things we do. I'm sure it's very avant garde to bash Christmas, but I don't get it.

WendyNYC
12-16-2007, 03:19 AM
Some of us do - and don't make a show of it.
I do, too. But I still like to "adopt" a family for Christmas and have my kids help pick out their presents.

Cassiopeia
12-16-2007, 03:56 AM
Hey, here's a weirdo idea.

Why not just do good deeds all the year round and quit making a big show of it?

Now..now... no need to be so harsh. I am sure people do lots of good things all year long.

Some even do it anonymously.

Medievalist
12-16-2007, 04:43 AM
Oi. I'm sure that's fantastically healthy.

I can see the argument for artificial trees, but for those who prefer the real thing, the salve (weak as it may be) is that the pines and conifers are some of the fastest growing trees out there and easily replenished. I suppose that's why we haven't run out yet.

They really are grown just for the Christmas tree market, and they keep a lot of the families I grew up with in meat during the winter, when the ground's frozen and the stock is not for butchering . . .

KTC
12-16-2007, 05:04 AM
I was wondering why someone so festively dressed would be anti-Christmas. But I thought perhaps you had Multiple Personality Disorder, what with the KTC/Sebby and all that.


I absolutely love Christmas. I just don't like people. If people would disappear, I might consider being more pro-Christmas.

scarletpeaches
12-16-2007, 05:07 AM
I absolutely love Christmas. I just don't like people. If people would disappear, I might consider being more pro-Christmas.

God, I love you sometimes.

KTC
12-16-2007, 05:07 AM
He has multiple disorder disorder. It's a subject best left alone. Trust me.



Bite me twice.

Don't be mean.

No...you bite me too.

Come on. Don't get all nasty.

I can get nasty if I want...I'm feeling very grumpy today.

Well, don't take it out on Robiiaieiieaieaeiaeaieiaieeia. He's an ass...but he's a nice ass.

Says you!

Pffft.

KTC
12-16-2007, 05:07 AM
God, I love you sometimes.


I know. I'm freakin' brilliant.

robeiae
12-16-2007, 05:13 AM
God, I love you sometimes.

I know. I'm freakin' brilliant.
This is better than watching paint dry.


Just barely.

KTC
12-16-2007, 05:17 AM
This is better than watching paint dry.


Just barely.

Drop acid. The paint dries faster. And more interestingly. Then you can stop watching us...perv.

rhymegirl
12-16-2007, 06:22 AM
Merry Christmas, Sebby.

KTC
12-16-2007, 07:08 AM
Merry Christmas, rhymegirl, ma'am.

rhymegirl
12-16-2007, 07:33 AM
Here is a little something that might help everyone feel the Christmas spirit. It is just beautiful:

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=kGrhzCgy_bg&feature=PlayList&p=595E6F302278EC7D&index=1

aruna
12-16-2007, 10:41 AM
I'm not arguing about trees' feelings. I get a live one every year and I'm not about to stop. If the trees complain, I'll think about it, but as long as they keep quiet...

:D

I'm not going to stop either. I lived in Germany 30 years and ALL Germans except three use real trees, and Germany is the most eco-conscious country in Europe. If they are killing trees you can be sure that they are doing it in a ecologically friendly manner with respect to the tree's feelings, and making sure that they are ecologically replaced. Oh, and all Germans recycle. That's cos you have to pay a lot for the non-recycled stuff. So, it CAN be done.

TrickyFiction
12-16-2007, 10:57 AM
I hope you never have to hug a fire. My daughter is a firefighter and she's held people in her arms as they were dying.

It's pitiful that you feel you have to make fun of people for what they believe.

Ah, I was only teasing. I used to hate getting Christmas trees, too. I still can't bring myself to be there while they're cut down, cause I'm a soft-hearted girl. And, just so you know, I too have lost someone in a fire.

WendyNYC
12-16-2007, 08:14 PM
I can't help but find it ironic, Haphazard, how your rant on the Chistmas season parallels the Puritan bannation of Christmas celebrations in the 17th Century. They felt that all this excess (the eating, dancing, singing, gift-giving) was decidedly UN-holy. And, well, since most Christmas carols, food and dances were rooted in pagan traditions, they might have been right.

But this excess has been around for a long time, and will likely continue to be so. Just think of how many gifts that gal from "The Twelve Days of Christmas" got. Her husband was probably stressed to hunt down all those turtle doves, gold rings, callybirds, pipers piping....

So if you ever decide that if you can't beat 'em, join 'em, you are most welcome to come to my Christmas party. Since more than half of my friends are Jewish, rest assured there will be many non-Christians in attendance.

Medievalist
12-16-2007, 08:52 PM
I can't help but find it ironic, Haphazard, how your rant on the Chistmas season parallels the Puritan bannation of Christmas celebrations in the 17th Century.

In 1644 Dec. 25 was declared a fast day; somewhat earlier, in 1583, Philip Stubbes railed against Christmas in his Anatomie of Abuses (here in its glorious second edition (http://ocw.mit.edu/NR/rdonlyres/Literature/21L-703Fall2003/B1DC8920-4F2B-4557-8D66-E27A2E998CEA/0/stubbes_anatomy.pdf)):

"But especially in Christmas type there is nothing els vsed but Cards, Dice, Tables, Maskyng, Mumming, Bowling, and such like fooleries." Stubbe's Anatomie of Abuses, 1584 fol. 111.

rhymegirl
12-16-2007, 08:53 PM
What we're doing this year is simplifying. We have a little Charlie Brown tree in the front window and yesterday we put up our artificial tree in the living room. When decorated, they both look very pretty.

Every year is different. Some years we've had more money than we've had in other years, so some Christmases could be more extravagant than others. But I've always tried to tell my kids that people mean more than things. If we can all be together and we're all healthy, I'm happy.

Sometimes we just have to disregard the constant messages we're bombarded with on TV and radio. (Buy, buy, buy!) We all know they have to do that to stay in business. But we can simply buy what we can afford.

And we need to realize that everyone's situation in life is different. Some people are very sad at this time of year for various reasons. For myself, this Christmas is the first Christmas without my father who died this year. Even though I have my own family, his absence will be very obvious to every one of us and it will affect us. But we will also appreciate each other so much more.

So, I would say to the OP and others, try to find something meaningful in this season. Discard the things that don't matter and focus on what does. Simplify your decorating, simplify all the chores and excess.

And as for Christmas lights, I must say I really like them. We have a place called LaSalette Shrine in Massachusetts--300,000 lights. It's a beautiful place and people go there to see the lights and look at the Nativity scenes and other pieces of religious artwork, etc. It might seem like excess, but not to the many, many people who go there.

Jersey Chick
12-16-2007, 08:55 PM
The Garden State Arts Center (renamed PNC, but it'll always be Garden State to me) does a big light display every year. It's gorgeous. I even get a kick out of the Griswold houses - the worse the better. :D

thethinker42
12-17-2007, 10:26 PM
Hey, here's a weirdo idea.

Why not just do good deeds all the year round and quit making a big show of it?

Because you get extra points if you save up all your good deeds and do them in the spirit of Christmas.

DUH...

scarletpeaches
12-17-2007, 10:38 PM
The Spirit of Christmas can bite me on the girlballs. DUH...

Cassiopeia
12-17-2007, 10:59 PM
My gosh, I think I must unsubscribe from this thread. Every time I look it just makes me upset.

scarletpeaches
12-17-2007, 11:03 PM
I shall say something nice to prevent Cass unsubscribulating.

Happy Xmas.

Oh dear god, now I feel sick...

Cassiopeia
12-17-2007, 11:14 PM
I shall say something nice to prevent Cass unsubscribulating.

Happy Xmas.

Oh dear god, now I feel sick...Maybe you should. Typing Xmas is taking the very meaning out of Christmas. :) Xmas commercializes it in my opinion.

scarletpeaches
12-17-2007, 11:18 PM
Xmas! Xmas! Xmas!

Tiger
12-17-2007, 11:21 PM
...That does something else to it

My-Immortal
12-17-2007, 11:22 PM
The Spirit of Christmas can bite me on the girlballs. DUH...

For someone who uses the argument of doing good deeds all year round instead of saving up for Christmas and making a big show of it as a reason to get rid of the holiday, you don't exactly practice what you preach, do you?

If you want to do something nice today - quit spewing your 'bitter' on our holiday spirit! Thanks. :)

Merry Christmas.

Cassiopeia
12-17-2007, 11:24 PM
Xmas! Xmas! Xmas!You know, somehow, I don't find that funny. Cheers

scarletpeaches
12-17-2007, 11:24 PM
For someone who uses the argument of doing good deeds all year round instead of saving up for Christmas and making a big show of it as a reason to get rid of the holiday, you don't exactly practice what you preach, do you?

And how the hell would you know what, if any, voluntary work I do all year round and for the past eleven years, hmm?

If you want to do something nice today - quit spewing your 'bitter' on our holiday spirit! Thanks. :)

Merry Christmas.

If you want to do something nice today - quit spewing your 'I have no sense of humour' on our posts! Thanks. :)

Merry Saturnalia, actually.

KTC
12-17-2007, 11:26 PM
The Spirit of Christmas can bite me on the girlballs. DUH...

Watch what you wish for...I hear the Spirit of Christmas has GInormous teeth. All jaggy waggy and long and what not. You know not what you ask for.

scarletpeaches
12-17-2007, 11:27 PM
I shall have my girlballs temporarily removed and locked in a vault for safekeeping over the holiday period.

My-Immortal
12-17-2007, 11:29 PM
If you want to do something nice today - quit spewing your 'I have no sense of humour' on our posts! Thanks. :)

Merry Saturnalia, actually.

<raspberry>

scarletpeaches
12-17-2007, 11:29 PM
Oh, fine. We're bringing out the raspberries, are we?

You're messin' with the Peach now.

scarletpeaches
12-17-2007, 11:30 PM
Does that mean together we're a Melba?

KTC
12-17-2007, 11:37 PM
I heart raspberry peach cobbler!

My-Immortal
12-17-2007, 11:49 PM
Oh, fine. We're bringing out the raspberries, are we?

You're messin' with the Peach now.

Nah, I wouldn't mess with a Peach. You drop one and they bruise way too easily...

;)

WendyNYC
12-18-2007, 03:07 AM
Maybe you should. Typing Xmas is taking the very meaning out of Christmas. :) Xmas commercializes it in my opinion.

Actually, X is shorthand for "Christ" From the Greek letter "Chi" from "Christos" or "Xstos." (or something close to that--I bet Medievalist knows more.) It's been used by monks and clergy for centuries.

WendyNYC
12-18-2007, 03:23 AM
Wow, my last two posts make me sound like I am quite the Christmas Nerd. Let's just say I've been making a rare appearance at church lately.

Cassiopeia
12-18-2007, 03:25 AM
Actually, X is shorthand for "Christ" From the Greek letter "Chi" from "Christos" or "Xstos." (or something close to that--I bet Medievalist knows more.) It's been used by monks and clergy for centuries.

Actually that's all well and good but for some, it doesn't hold meaning, as not all of us are experts in Greek letters and what not. For some of us, it's a shortening of a title that just ought not to be. But thanks for the info anyway.

Jersey Chick
12-18-2007, 03:38 AM
So that's where the X comes from. I always wondered.

I'm so lapsed a Catholic that lightning would strike me dead if I thought about going into a church...

WendyNYC
12-18-2007, 03:46 AM
So that's where the X comes from. I always wondered.

I'm so lapsed a Catholic that lightning would strike me dead if I thought about going into a church...


Yep. My rector told me that one, and she uses it, so that's good enough for me.

InfinityGoddess
12-18-2007, 03:48 AM
I actually like Christmas. :( Grinches.

Cassiopeia
12-18-2007, 03:51 AM
I love it! I even bought a real tree this year. It's a little one...kinda like a charlie brown tree. Brought it home and it was so amazing, I decorated it in like 45 minutes, instead of the usually three day fiasco of the huge fake tree that I have to assemble.

Smells nice too. And before anyone yells at me for a real live tree it comes from a TREE FARM where they top the trees. :tongue

WendyNYC
12-18-2007, 04:06 AM
not all of us are experts in Greek letters and what not.

This made me chuckle. I wish!
My extensive knowledge of Greek comes from math (a little) and fraternity parties in college (way, way too much). :D

davids
12-18-2007, 04:23 AM
If only.

Christmas for me meant a beating. So, pretty much like any other day.

i am with my Miss Scarlet on this one-actually it has turned out as a nice time to remember that the Christmas of my fifteenth birthday I beat the living shit out of the sperm doner-a fond memory-the look on my old moms face as I kicked him in the nuts as he went down-he had been beating her and me for a long long time-different times back then-I had broken his nose and cracked his cheek bone-oh those glorious memories-truly lovely! Did some time in some juvenile brigg-also a fond memory!

Jersey Chick
12-18-2007, 05:34 AM
I am also one of those in the I Love Christmas corner. My daughter and I decorated our tree yesterday and it looks beautiful (it would look even better if my son would stop stealing the ornaments off it and running like hell through the house giggling like a maniac.)

Since my mom hurt her back last week, Jersey Guy went and got her tree when he got ours and, as per her instructions, it's a short tree (since she can't stretch to decorate and wouldn't let anyone help her, stubborn old lady that she is). Well, I went over there yesterday and it is the shortest Christmas tree I've ever seen - kind of Charlie Brown tree-ish, but absolutely adorable. I swear I'm taller than it, which has never ever happened before.

And yes, both trees came from tree farms.

oscuridad
12-18-2007, 10:14 AM
There IS good, and this is the season when you can see it.

It's honestly pretty beautiful.

you are joking, right. this is usually wen people get more stressed and more narky than usual, then force themselves to be nice for a day. I think the point of the thread was not what it is 'supposed to be' but what it has become.

It has become a pain in the arse. I quite like the lights - on the tree, in the house. Not lit up like JFK on the outside, all that is, is 'look, I'M more Christmassy than you are, sucker!' The lights plague has spread over here a long time ago, and it is horrible, I am afraid. A few bright lights in a window or something can be nice, but the rest. Tacky, tacky, tacky.

poetinahat
12-18-2007, 10:39 AM
Live and let live, then.

And Merry Christmas all the same.

Shady Lane
12-18-2007, 10:45 AM
you are joking, right. this is usually wen people get more stressed and more narky than usual, then force themselves to be nice for a day. I think the point of the thread was not what it is 'supposed to be' but what it has become.

It has become a pain in the arse. I quite like the lights - on the tree, in the house. Not lit up like JFK on the outside, all that is, is 'look, I'M more Christmassy than you are, sucker!' The lights plague has spread over here a long time ago, and it is horrible, I am afraid. A few bright lights in a window or something can be nice, but the rest. Tacky, tacky, tacky.

okay. whatever. I'm not going to argue about this.

Tiger
12-18-2007, 11:52 PM
you are joking, right. this is usually wen people get more stressed and more narky than usual, then force themselves to be nice for a day. I think the point of the thread was not what it is 'supposed to be' but what it has become.

Actually, the point of the thread is nestled nicely in its title: that the holiday should be trashed. I think that's overdoing it a bit. It is, after all, nothing but a mark on a calendar and a day off of work if that's what one wants.

If one truly wanted it to be a pain in the arse, he could set the calendar on fire and sit on it... But, that seems a lot of effort for a little discomfort.

scarletpeaches
12-18-2007, 11:54 PM
As you said, the clue is in the thread title.

Seems a bit odd for Xmas-lovers to enter, read, and contribute to, a thread that states its intent straight off.

Jersey Chick
12-18-2007, 11:58 PM
Why? So the thread can be nothing but miles and miles of "Yeah. I hate it too." There were a lot of good debates. How boring otherwise.

Tiger
12-19-2007, 12:01 AM
Gee, if someone started a thread saying that sex should be banned, I think I'd contribute there as well.

Tiger
12-19-2007, 12:06 AM
Why? So the thread can be nothing but miles and miles of "Yeah. I hate it too." There were a lot of good debates. How boring otherwise.

Especially since this was presented as a proposal (see? that's in the title too). Seems like a call for viewpoints to me.

jamiehall
12-19-2007, 12:07 AM
It's a time of year when people are naturally most depressed. Christmas cheers up some people. Others feel as if they are being forced to either be cheerful or suffer social rejection, and they get even more depressed (either from the forced cheer, the social rejection, or both).

I think people need to feel like it is okay to be gloomy during the holidays. I wish there weren't so many Christmas movies that send out the message that you need to cheer up or else. Or ones that send out the message that you absolutely must reconcile with family members - how is that supposed to be helpful in the cases of abusive families?

Really, there is a kind of anti-Valentine's tradition where people without love interests try to forget about the pressure for romance. I think Christmas needs something similar that is more widespread.

It has a very high suicide rate, after all. Sometimes people need less pressure far more than they need "cheered up."

Shadow_Ferret
12-19-2007, 12:24 AM
I'm glad I didn't see this right away or I'd have completely flamed the OP.

But seeing we're on page 9 with post 201, I'm just going to get lost in the shuffle now.

Bunch of Scrooges. :tongue

Christmas is the most wonderful time of the year.

scarletpeaches
12-19-2007, 12:26 AM
Bollocks it is. Ever think of those who don't have a family? Get depressed? Just plain old don't celebrate it?

Not everyone who doesn't 'do' Christmas is a Scrooge. And not everyone who does Christmas is a good person. People who attempt to enforce jollity on others aren't full of the Christmas spirit; they're just annoying.

Cassiopeia
12-19-2007, 12:27 AM
I am with you...it IS the most wonderful time of the year. My addiction to lights and all that sparkles is considered normal and people get to eat lots and not worry about their body fat ratios. :D

Shadow_Ferret
12-19-2007, 12:27 AM
Bollocks it is. Ever think of those who don't have a family? Get depressed? Just plain old don't celebrate it?

Not everyone who doesn't 'do' Christmas is a Scrooge. And not everyone who does Christmas is a good person. People who attempt to enforce jollity on others aren't full of the Christmas spirit; they're just annoying.
Scrooge.

scarletpeaches
12-19-2007, 12:28 AM
Git.

Shadow_Ferret
12-19-2007, 12:28 AM
Git.
Scrooge.

scarletpeaches
12-19-2007, 12:28 AM
I am with you...it IS the most wonderful time of the year. My addiction to lights and all that sparkles is considered normal and people get to eat lots and not worry about their body fat ratios. :D

Come to Scotland - people eat junk all the time and we've got the bloaters to prove it.

Shadow_Ferret
12-19-2007, 12:31 AM
Come to Scotland - people eat junk all the time and we've got the bloaters to prove it.
Have you ever tried the deep fat fried hamburger? (http://fxcuisine.com/default.asp?Display=129)



eta: , Scrooge?

Jersey Chick
12-19-2007, 12:32 AM
Bollocks it is. Ever think of those who don't have a family? Get depressed? Just plain old don't celebrate it?

Not everyone who doesn't 'do' Christmas is a Scrooge. And not everyone who does Christmas is a good person. People who attempt to enforce jollity on others aren't full of the Christmas spirit; they're just annoying.

And not everyone who celebrates or decorates is trying to force it on anyone else. It goes both ways. If I choose to put lights on my house and a tree in my house, and someone else doesn't like it, tough. Look somewhere else. Those who bitch about how I choose to celebrate are annoying as well - as what I do really doesn't impact anyone outside my direct family.

Also, all who celebrate it don't necessarily come from picture-perfect families either. I know I didn't.

Cassiopeia
12-19-2007, 12:34 AM
Bollocks it is. Ever think of those who don't have a family? Get depressed? Just plain old don't celebrate it?

Not everyone who doesn't 'do' Christmas is a Scrooge. And not everyone who does Christmas is a good person. People who attempt to enforce jollity on others aren't full of the Christmas spirit; they're just annoying.

Now listen *best Mommy voice ever*

The whole point is just this. It isn't going to be done away with. Full stop.

And Scarlet you do have family sweetie. You have us! and more to the point ME!

I am suffering from a bit of depression this year and the one thing that makes me smile are those lights on my trees and driving around with my son who lives at home still, looking at people's homes that are decorated.

I have a son who is stuck in some sticks part of South Carolina serving as a mission for the Mormon Church and he is living in a shed with out proper plumbing..*yeah they are peeing in jugs and fetching water in pitchers* no insulation and a space heater. And I really can't stop crying about it.

And maybe ...just maybe those of us who are sick of the complaining about how fake some people are and how some people never do any good except at Christmas find the reality of life a bit more important.

I am sorry for those who are finding this time of year hard. I most certainly can relate but I am not about to try and ruin it for others.

Tiger
12-19-2007, 01:08 AM
It's a time of year when people are naturally most depressed.

"Naturally," hell. Nothing natural about it--which is what folks seem to be complaining about.

Yes, Christmas has become an artificial construct, and this is exactly why it doesn't bother me; a non-Christian, estranged-from-family, twice-married, twice-laid-off, middle-aged bloke with a bad back.

It's a day off from work, and a chance to have a nice dinner with my wife.

I don't let other peoples' mirth bother me any more than I do their depression. Call me weird, but I'm not going to let something like an arbitrary mark on the calendar have that kind of control over me.

I'm certainly not going to jump onto a campaign to get rid of it any more than I would to get the local waterpark closed because I've no kids to play with there (talk about depressing).

Cassiopeia
12-19-2007, 01:19 AM
"Naturally," hell. Nothing natural about it--which is what folks seem to be complaining about.

Yes, Christmas has become an artificial construct, and this is exactly why it doesn't bother me; a non-Christian, estranged-from-family, twice-married, twice-laid-off, middle-aged bloke with a bad back.

It's a day off from work, and a chance to have a nice dinner with my wife.

I don't let other peoples' mirth bother me any more than I do their depression. Call me weird, but I'm not going to let something like an arbitrary mark on the calendar have that kind of control over me.

I'm certainly not going to jump onto a campaign to get rid of it any more than I would to get the local waterpark closed because I've no kids to play with there (talk about depressing).Thank you for a very well written post.

roskoebaby
12-19-2007, 04:06 AM
Just wanted to say, that I've made Christmas into my own thing. I avoid lines and instead buy my kids a few presents online. I put up modest decorations and only listen to the Christmas music driving the kids. But my tree is huge. Lol. I love Christmas trees.

Now, I don't buy everyone in my family gifts since they live out of state. As far as people getting depressed during Christmas? Chances are they also get depressed during Thanksgiving, Weddings, Family Reunions and any other family time. So what? None of us can enjoy ourselves? I don't dig the money-spending, but shoot. Christmas is a blast. Maybe the problem is in your life and not with the holiday. (Totally not saying this to be a bitch either) :)

Shadow_Ferret
12-19-2007, 04:34 PM
Fascinating fact I just learned on the news today.

Depression actually DECREASES 30-40% during the holidays.

scarletpeaches
12-19-2007, 07:39 PM
That's because all the depressed people kill themselves.

scarletpeaches, your little ray of sunshine.

Shadow_Ferret
12-19-2007, 08:00 PM
At least they aren't bothering us with their whining anymore!

Ferret, even chippier.

renafena
12-19-2007, 09:14 PM
It's not Christmas's fault that people have turned it into a Consumer Hell. When you allow the Commercial world to change your opinion of the season, you are allowing yourself to be a victim of the very same faulty society you are complaining about. Rise above it and make the holidays your own! Be empowered with your choices and don't allow Hallmark and store decorations and music to control your outlook on the world at any time of the year, not just Christmas!

Rena

Cassiopeia
12-19-2007, 09:24 PM
That's because all the depressed people kill themselves.

scarletpeaches, your little ray of sunshine.That's not even funny. *sigh*

I give up.

Tiger
12-19-2007, 10:08 PM
That's because all the depressed people kill themselves.

scarletpeaches, your little ray of sunshine.

Aya...! Janice Ian is back.

Jean Marie
12-20-2007, 12:59 AM
Little things don't stand in the way of me being happy the rest of the year. They do when Christmastime rolls around.
Saddest statement I've heard in a long time.

well shit, man, it'd be much easier for you to just get yourself some therapy than to worry about abolishing a holiday millions get pleasure from, yes?
Instead of wading through this thread, 'cause I'm spending Christmas w/ my mom, could be her last, you know, this comment, William, expresses my sentiments exactly.

Thank you.

Christine N.
12-20-2007, 02:06 AM
I definitely agree it starts too damn early. Eventually we'll start with Christmas on Jan. 2.

And then I'll gladly shoot myself.

I love the music, though. We have a station that starts on the holiday tunes on Thanksgiving day. While I think that a mite early...I can switch to another station. Last weekend I plunked in my Trans-Siberian Orchestra CD's and rocked out for a couple of hours.

I also hate the big inflatable things. Stupid looking, especially if you have a small yard. We do have a local display that people go to see, and it's nice, so I don't fault all of them.

Our stinking family is getting so large I'm considering instituting the family pollyanna. Everybody picks one name (outside of the kids) and spends more on one gift for that person that they would if they had to buy for everyone, but not as much as they would in total.

Jean Marie
12-20-2007, 02:21 AM
Live and let live, then.


Words to live by, Rob :) And not just during the Christmas season, either.

My-Immortal
12-20-2007, 02:28 AM
Bollocks it is. Ever think of those who don't have a family? Get depressed? Just plain old don't celebrate it?

Not everyone who doesn't 'do' Christmas is a Scrooge. And not everyone who does Christmas is a good person. People who attempt to enforce jollity on others aren't full of the Christmas spirit; they're just annoying.

But SP, if they got rid of Christmas, there would be one less thing for you to bitch about...

...unless you'd start bitching about the lack of things to bitch about...

;)

sassandgroove
12-20-2007, 02:32 AM
I don't have time at present to read all 7 pages, but...



1) Christmas lights. They are a) and eyesore, b) dangerous to put up, and c) waste a tremendous amount of electricity. Also, because there's no Boxing Day, there's nothing to curb this waste of electricity and d) so a lot of times people are wasting electricity on Christmas from November through February, long past the Christmas season. Then ignore them. If I want to spend time and energy to put them up I will. You don't have too. Like Haskins said, reduce your energy consumption. I love Christmas lights. We have a tradition every year of driving around and looking at them as a family, so take that into account when you buy your carbon credits. And as for Boxing Day, last time I checked, it IS on our Calendar. Later in your post you complain Christmas is over too soon, so which is it? Too long or not enough. I see it as a whole season, starting at Thanksgiving, encompassing New Years, and ending with Epiphany on Jan 6 when the wisemen come. And furthermore, Some people think the lights are beautiful. I am not sure how they can be counted an eyesore.



2) The music. It's played over and over nonstop in commercial places and on the TV. Nothing wrong with it in and of itself, but, haven't they proven that listening to the same song over and over again can drive a person insane? Even if that's not true, it's extremely annoying.
Then change the station, tune it out and ignore it.


3) It starts earlier and earlier every year. In fact, Thanksgiving (the most American holiday there is) was pushed back a week to accomodate for a longer Christmas season, but that's STILL not enough. I've seen Christmas advertisements and sales and decorations up BEFORE Halloween. Seriously. And this is awful because: Technically if 4) is a subset of 3) it should be labeled a) and you can't have an a) without a b) in an outline. Where does 5) go? Is it really b) or should it be 4)? Just sayin'.

As for the timing, can you blame retailers. That is when many of them make money for the year. And I personally like having some things available prior to Thanksgiving, so I am not running around like a chicken with my head come off during Dec. Especially craft supplies. If you don't want to buy anything before december, don't.



4) It throws people into a tizzy. Even if you're not Christian, you have to buy everyone gifts! It's caused a) other traditionally non-important holidays to adopt a Christmas-like attitude to keep things representatively correct, and it also b) crowds and congests commercial centers so much that people who are trying to buy the basic necessities can't get through those trying to buy for Christmas. Crowds are impossible to avoid, especially the closer and closer to Christmas it is. It also c) racks up a lot of debt right before tax season. That seems a bit cruel, doesn't it? At least birthdays are usually spread across the year, but on Christmas everyone's buying at the same time. Why? Who says you have to buy gifts? Giving should be from your heart, not done out of a feeling of obligation or guilt. Don't want to give gifts, don't. As for other traditions turning the holiday around Christmas into a gift giving event, such as Hannakuh, again, if you don't want to give gifts, don't. I think some of that stems from people wanting to share. I know one of my favorite things to do is give a gift I know the receiver will love and watching them light up.

Crowds can be annoying, but if you know it is going to be crowded, plan ahead and go when it won't be, stock up so you just have to run to the grocery store for milk and bread and go through the express lane.

As for c) Wouldn't it be that the IRS is cruel, not the holiday? And who says you have to rack up debt. Careful planning can prevent that. In years when I didn't have a lot of money (and even now) I make gifts. Making gifts allows me to give to people that I could otherwise only afford to send a card. I don't see the correlation, really. And isn't Tax season in April?





5) The political correctness. Other faiths and cultures feel the need to compensate and make another holiday a gift-giving holiday, too. These holidays usually don't fall on Christmas but are treated as if they did. I'm Jewish (though that doesn't make my argument any less valid), and I know that Hanukkah rarely falls over Christmas, yet well-meaning people who know I'm Jewish wish me Happy Hanukkah long after Hanukkah is over. Those who are being thrown into a tizzy over PCness are usually Christian themselves and have no idea what those who are not Christian go through. Yes, Christmas is an important holiday to Christains. We non-Christians get that. We'd be a lot happier if you stopped being meshuggeneh during this time of year than if you wished us 'seasons greetings,' but that's not going to stop any time soon, we know. And don't even get me started on banning "Ho Ho Ho." Why? Get over yourself. If someone says Happy Hannukah to you the day after, just say, "Thank you." End of problem. And if you don't want to celebrate Christmas, then go into work that day. Other wise leave me alone.



6) The stress. Ignore the song, it most certainly is NOT the 'most wonderful time of the year.' Everybody feels the need to be 'festive' during Christmas under threat of being called a Scrooge or a Grinch. Along with Christmas, many students have finals and other end-of-semester worries to worry about on top of remembering if they got gifts for all of their friends. I think it is one of the most wonderful times of the year. If you would get over yourself you might find that it is enjoyable for you too. You don't have to be super happy festive 24/7, but you can step back and realize that people who wish you a happy hannukah a day late are just trying to be friendly, and people want to celebrate and be festive and share and have fun, and you can be included in that if you get that chip off your shoulder. Light a menorrah and smile.



7) And then it's all over, right on December 26th. Which is pretty ridiculous for something that lasts since the middle of October, isn't it? It just suddenly ends, just like that, and yet there are still commercials with Christmas songs, and of course there's overproduction of Christmas things, which the stores all sell at 70% off the day after. And why should there be any more celebration after that, anyway? Those who were getting gifts got theirs, and all there's left to deal with is the debt and endless cleanup. see above. Twelve days of Christmas, baby. And New Year's to boot.



Christmas, as it is now, is a pain in the ass. Go to Mass and give gifts to your kids, but please, can't we do without the Christmas season?It is only a pain in the ass if you make it that way. To quote Garrison Keilor's Mom, "Life is what you make, so make the best of it."

scarletpeaches
12-20-2007, 02:37 AM
...Then change the station, tune it out and ignore it...

Easier said than done, especially if you work in retail, or need to go anywhere near a shop in December. Some of us need to eat and well, buy stuff.

If 'tuning out' was an option, believe me, I'd do it. But there's only so many times you can hear I Wish It Could Be Christmas Every Day before you want to stab someone in the eye.

Cassiopeia
12-20-2007, 02:38 AM
*gives Sassy a standing ovation!* Here here! well written!

scarletpeaches
12-20-2007, 02:38 AM
Like I said before, it's a bit hard to ignore something when it's everywhere.

Cassiopeia
12-20-2007, 02:39 AM
Easier said than done, especially if you work in retail, or need to go anywhere near a shop in December. Some of us need to eat and well, buy stuff.

If 'tuning out' was an option, believe me, I'd do it. But there's only so many times you can hear I Wish It Could Be Christmas Every Day before you want to stab someone in the eye.

Now hang on, if you have to listen to that bloody song from "The Snowman" every twenty minutes like I did while in the midlands I can understand wanting to stab my eardrums so I would be deaf and I do get monotonous music while working...but come on...go break the PA system. :D

Cassiopeia
12-20-2007, 02:41 AM
Like I said before, it's a bit hard to ignore something when it's everywhere.only if you think that way. I am quite capable of ignoring a great many things. Trust me my dear, you can do it. Just ask my ex's ...they can tell you how proficient I have become at it. :D

scarletpeaches
12-20-2007, 02:41 AM
I might have a word with the security guys and get them to go back to the sound system room and change the Xmas crap for a 50 Cent album, or something by Linkin Park. Much more likely to get me moving and help me work faster...

Cassiopeia
12-20-2007, 02:43 AM
I might have a word with the security guys and get them to go back to the sound system room and change the Xmas crap for a 50 Cent album, or something by Linkin Park. Much more likely to get me moving and help me work faster...Or at least a different singer or sound track...MY WORD ..the one at the hotel where i stayed and i was in the restaurant/pug most days cos it was preferable to my room, played the same dang cd over and over again and *screams* that depressing little tune from that depressing little christmas story "the snowman". Jeez...at least frosty says he'll be back again some day.

Tiger
12-20-2007, 02:44 AM
Give them some James Brown...

scarletpeaches
12-20-2007, 02:46 AM
I even asked one of the managers if we could bring in our own CDs, or switch it to the radio instead of having the same tracks on repeat/loop but he said no; we'd need a broadcasting licence. Bummer.

We have playlists which are about 60-90 minutes in duration, so in the course of a working day I have to listen to the same song about 5, 6 times. Every. Damn. Day.

Luckily they're not all Christmas songs. Some are more poppy, but still...I really, really, wish we had a licence to at least put the radio on.

Luckily in the loading bay they can play whatever they want because it's not a public area so the broadcasting laws don't come into play, so when I'm working 'behind the scenes' I have that escape route. But on the shop floor? Ick. I want to burn my own ears off.

Cassiopeia
12-20-2007, 02:48 AM
seriously...see if you don't find this just depressing! the snowman (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ponB8Hd_lG4)

scarletpeaches
12-20-2007, 02:49 AM
I can forgive Raymond Briggs, because he's responsible for Fungus the Bogeyman. :D

Cassiopeia
12-20-2007, 02:51 AM
I can forgive Raymond Briggs, because he's responsible for Fungus the Bogeyman. :D

BUT THAT SONG! It burns ...it bites...the nasty song!

scarletpeaches
12-20-2007, 02:53 AM
That, my dear, is how I feel about every Christmas song.

Yes, even Shakin' Stevens and his damnable Merry Christmas Everyone.

Tiger
12-20-2007, 02:54 AM
"Attention shoppers: today, you can receive a free, 14k gold, tiger neck chain, just by filling out an application for a Sears charge card. Simply ask any associate for an application, fill out the application, and you will receive your free, 14k gold, tiger neck chain..."

I still remember that from when I worked as a tagger over one summer when I was in high school.

It's funny how this crap can seeps into your brain through your scalp.

HeronW
12-20-2007, 02:54 AM
Here in Israel they sell chocolate Easter Bunnies at Xmas time. I'm not sure if they're left over from spring '07 or early for '08 but either way I'm in deep doodoo for eating one... My partner wants to hang them all on the Chanukahmas tree. :}

poetinahat
12-20-2007, 02:55 AM
I like Christmas. Sorry some people don't, but I don't feel obligated to change their minds; all I want is for people not to bother me about enjoying it. What's the harm?

Then again, I don't bitch about having to hear about Britney Spears, Joaquin Phoenix, Oprah, and reality TV everywhere I go (either for or against), despite the fact that any of those topics makes me cross my eyes in pain.

When you care about something or someone, you see the good and the bad, and you accept the bad as part of the whole. People who enjoy the Christmas season enjoy it, warts and all, the way they do anything else.

We already *know* about the excess, the commercialism, and all that. Either we enjoy it, we don't mind, we ignore it, we work around it, or we somehow deal with it in another way. But we don't insist that everyone see it our way. And I really don't see what's wrong with people trying a little harder to be nice for a few weeks. Who knows? It may just stick.

So I'll join Cass, J-M, Sass, and so many others in having a good time this season. Anybody else is welcome. I don't need more reasons to be miserable; I'll always take a reason to be cheerful.

Cassiopeia
12-20-2007, 02:56 AM
I like Christmas. Sorry some people don't, but I don't feel obligated to change their minds; all I want is for people not to bother me about enjoying it. What's the harm?

Then again, I don't bitch about having to hear about Britney Spears, Joaquin Phoenix, Oprah, and reality TV everywhere I go (either for or against), despite the fact that any of those topics makes me cross my eyes in pain.

When you care about something or someone, you see the good and the bad, and you accept the bad as part of the whole. People who enjoy the Christmas season enjoy it, warts and all, the way they do anything else.

We already *know* about the excess, the commercialism, and all that. Either we enjoy it, we don't mind, we ignore it, we work around it, or we somehow deal with it in another way. But we don't insist that everyone see it our way. And I really don't see what's wrong with people trying a little harder to be nice for a few weeks. Who knows? It may just work.

So I'll join Cass, J-M, Sass, and so many others in having a good time this season. Anybody else is welcome. I don't need more reasons to be miserable; I'll always take a reason to be cheerful.

OH! there you are Poet!

*starts her nightly vigil of stalking him*

poetinahat
12-20-2007, 02:57 AM
OH! there you are Poet!

*starts her nightly vigil of stalking him*

The jingle bells gave you away this time, Cass. Nice touch!

Cassiopeia
12-20-2007, 02:59 AM
The jingle bells gave you away this time, Cass. Nice touch!

Dang it. :( I hate it when that happens. ;)

xhouseboy
12-20-2007, 03:38 AM
seriously...see if you don't find this just depressing! the snowman (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ponB8Hd_lG4)


Here's the Scottish adaptation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfiqrkV_ZqI

jst5150
12-20-2007, 03:45 AM
Hmmm. Let's break this down and give me a little space. This is a tad different take. :Lecture:

Christmas celebrates the birth of Jesus Christ as the saviour of man. It's a Christian holiday specifically for the reason mentioned. That covers a lot of people in the world, about 320 million if the numbers flow right. This particular part of the year is better known for its generosity than the rest. Traditionally, based on the stories, there are 12 days of Christmas, which I believe start on Dec. 25 and end sometime after New Year (if not, then they start when they start and end when they end). It is on those days when the whole charitable spirit and influx of goodness really gains traction. The tradition of exchanging gifts comes into play. It's a novel idea when it's kept on its mores. :)

Religion being what it is intermingles with politics, economy and the rest of the world. And "the rest of the world" includes a great majority of Christians, non-Christians and others. Some of them saw an opportunity with all the gift-giving going on. People need gifts. But giving a modest number of gifts between people, or giving a modest gift of charity to an organization became, well, not enough. There's no milestone marker for that one. It just happened. The "holiday culture" changed. :eek:

The birth of Christ became second fiddle to the whole idea of "gift giving" and "charitable" contributions. The birth of Christ became the soundtrack as the bar got raised on the amount and veracity of gift giving in the world. We were assuaged by the idea that all of this was philanthropic and "just the thing to do for the season." Economies of scale grew. No telling exactly when the switch got hit, but I'd bet the dawn of the Industrial Age had a lot to do with that -- mass manufacturing and so on. After all, businesses may sell 100 toys one year, but they'll want to sell 1,000 the next and 10,000 after that. Otherwise, they go out of business with all those big assembly lines running and all those employees to pay (and you can insert the "but those jobs are overseas now" assertion here if you like, but they WERE in the US of A to start with). Anyway, you can also rest the whole Industrial-Age paradigm change on this: every consumer-oriented post in our market-driven economy absolutely relies on the Christmas season for its annual success or failure. The numbers cannot be lower than last year or else. Just watch CNBC anytime this month if you'd like proof of that one.

So, to ensure the numbers rise, manufacturers artificially extended that season through adverts and clever marketing. At the start of the industrial age, it was the 12 days. Then, the whole month of December. Then, from Thanksgiving through the end of the year. Today, that "season" starts after Halloween if not slightly before. Don't believe it? Head to Target to check it out.

That whole industrial and economic backstory aside, buried within this continuum of factors is still the birth of Christ, the gifts from the Three Kings and so on. However, the Western Hemisphere culture dampens and homogenizes the religious portion. It does this to sell lots more stuff and not offend people who aren't Chiristian, people who are sort of Chirstian and all the others who is something else that turns their nose at the inference that religion might affect their holiday purchases and put a stink on a gift. Remarkably, we get trained over and over each year: buy more and want more of it. If last year's Christmas was good, then next year's has to be bigger: A Lexus with a red bow on it. Giant diamond rings. A bunch of clutter from Macy's. A radio-controlled, gasoline-powered turtleneck sweater. Regardless of that economic reality, for many, what matters here is the emotion, the sentiment and the culture of the belief of the holidays that fall after Thanksgiving (and here, I include Hanukkah and Christmas; Kwanzaa similarly, but that started in the 1960s; throw in Festivus if you want to be clever).

And here's where we swing it around to answer the question:

If you're so sensitive to the economic and commercially driven parables of the season, back away and find out what's important to YOU about the holiday. And, for that matter, rather than reacting to it and rebelling, perhaps rethink the original tenants of the seasonal celebration and internalize them: charity, good will, peace on Earth. To quote Hilliel, "If not you, who? If not now, when?"

Move away from the idea that in order to celebrate Christmas, you have to be part of the crowd that buys bags full of Crate & Barrel, gaggles of Gucci or piles of Pottery Barn. That's crap. "The crowd" runs to a salesman looking to screw you out of your last dime so he can line his expense account and grow his end-of-year bonus. As an individual, about this "season" you have to ask yourself, "Am I internalizing what I need in order to be a better person? A better professional (if career motivated)?" None of that commercialization means Christmas. What it means is seeing Christmas as a fantastic once-a-year milestone to REFLECT, RENEW AND REFUEL, choosing to respect that milestone however you will. I suspect what's at the heart of asking question is a crisis of faith: faith in religion's power; faith in humanity's caring or faith in ... something. That's good. Tests of faith make us whole in so many ways and reveal character. In any case, the growth should be physical, spiritual and mental. A balance. That balance drives away the notion that economic, political and other forces will smash YOUR will and drive your decision process.

Christmas is about the birth of Jesus Christ as the saviour of mankind and the celebration of that birth. Anything beyond that is commentary. And if you're too easily swayed by commentary, it may be time to adjust perspective. It's a wonderful idea when it's kept in balance and when you, your family and closest friends are all on the same page about it.

Happy holidays everyone. :)

Jean Marie
12-20-2007, 03:58 AM
Trivializing the reason for the season, is a mockery to all that's good and positive about it regardless of whether or not you're Christian.

The spirit of the season, is about giving, not gifts, maybe of love to others. Starting over, in a sense, fresh, for the New Year that's right around the corner.

Instead of thinking about how it affects 'you' focus more on others, just for the heck of it.

Loveley post, Poet and Sass and Jason.

kristie911
12-20-2007, 04:33 AM
Ya'll are starting to make me feel bad for hating Christmas this year.

scarletpeaches
12-20-2007, 04:36 AM
Hey, never mind; that means you're more like me than ever!

Uh...that probably didn't help none...

Novelust
12-20-2007, 04:52 AM
*Puts 'Fairytale of New York' on a loop*

Tiger
12-20-2007, 05:41 AM
Ya'll are starting to make me feel bad for hating Christmas this year.

Shame on you... I'm very disappointed... If I were you, I'd feel rotten.

:D