Barron’s Literary Management (Adele Barron-Brooks)

[RobABard]

Has anyone heard of this Agency?
Been represented by it?

Based in Arlington, Texas.
As is the National Association of Women Writers ...
anyone heard of that either?

... inquiring minds want to know!

[vstrauss]

I've gotten questions. My research has turned up absolutely nothing about either the agency or the agent. An established agency, or an experience person setting up a new agency, is usually more researchable.

- Victoria

[James D. Macdonald]

Generally speaking, there's no such thing as a "stealth" agency. An agent's job is to be visible.

A useful agent has sold books that you've heard of.

[victoriastrauss]

Since my last post, I've seen some of this agency's materials. Ms. Barron-Brooks doesn't appear to have had any relevant professional experience before setting up her agency. A new agent really needs to have worked professionally in the publishing industry, or for another reputable agency; it's the only reliable way of acquiring the specialized knowledge and industry contacts that are essential to success. People who come to agenting from non-publishing-related fields rarely manage to make a go of it.

I'm not aware of any sales for Ms. Barron-Brooks, though she has been in business now for at least a year. As a general rule of thumb, a successful new agency will start making regular sales within six months to a year of starting up.

- Victoria

[Bufty]

Anyone know anything about the above - can't find a website.

[Adele Brooks]

Since my last post, I've seen some of this agency's materials. Ms. Barron-Brooks doesn't appear to have had any relevant professional experience before setting up her agency. A new agent really needs to have worked professionally in the publishing industry, or for another reputable agency; it's the only reliable way of acquiring the specialized knowledge and industry contacts that are essential to success. People who come to agenting from non-publishing-related fields rarely manage to make a go of it.

I'm not aware of any sales for Ms. Barron-Brooks, though she has been in business now for at least a year. As a general rule of thumb, a successful new agency will start making regular sales within six months to a year of starting up.

- Victoria
---------------------------------
Comment from Adele Barron-Brooks, President of Barron's Literary Management

Just to clear up misconceptions about this literary agency: I do have 25 years writing, editing and publishing experience in medical journals, newpapers,
trade magazines, advertising copy, layout/design creation and more recently three years experience in the marketing of mass end intellectual property including novels, non-fiction, children's stories and short story collections. This is a new agency with only a few sales so far, but good contacts with prominent editors at major publishers in NYC and London.

Another misconception is that new agents might take less than
technically flawless writing. All agents are charged with the responsibility
to send well written books in if they want to stay in business. The
hardest part of starting up an agency is wading through hundreds of
submissions to find a few gems worth reading. I advise everyone to pay
very close attention to your writing before submission. It is discouraging
to see so many common writing errors and weak stories. Platform is a huge issue even on fiction. If you have anything at all published be sure to mention that to the agent or publisher. It pays to tell about your background including
degrees. Publishers are impressed with an educated person and are more
willing to invest in a new author with one or more degrees.

I look for multidegreed professionals here because of the competitive nature
of the publishing business and my areas of interest which are science fiction,
medical thrillers, forensic science thrillers, paranormal romance and numerous
others categories listed on various internet sites.

I am also mutidegreed with ungrad in chemistry from the University of Texas
and an MBA from the University of Dallas. Before starting the agency, I was
a Senior Research Scientist for a global consumer products company back east. Friends, all marketing and scientific work requires high powered writing skills and excellent attention to detail. I wrote my first short story at 22 and
am still writing professionally as a post menopausal crone.

I'm originally from New York and go back frequently to look after client business. This year, I've had three books go to editorial board before
being rejected and countless other full manuscript reads that were
not accepted for publication. In all cases, the editors rejected the books
for not liking either the writing, story or book concept and not my agenting capability. Friends, the competition from best selling authors and more competent writers with English PHDs is awesome. Let that guide you in your work. Beyond finding a agent, the hard part is getting Editorial board approval and actually getting a contract issued.

My advice to all on searching for an agent: If you have a well written powerful story or non-fiction book concept, start at the top of the
stratosphere of agents in NYC or London. There are tiers to every
business, but you need to determine first who among the top tier
could have interest. If rejected, try to get anyone to read and comment.
All the agent scam comments on the site are known to me from working with folks who've been scammed. I've been scamed for a $5.00 reading fee and have been offered contracts for my novels from worthless publishers as well. Don't pay for reading fees ever as outlined in many places on the site. And never go the self publishing route. It is just like throwing your book in the trash can. Also, agents are not keen on seeing self published books that
have not sold well.

Lately, I've been meeting most new clients at writing conferences, trade
shows, writing worshops and seminars held by regional Universities. We all
work very hard here to get all books in excellent shape to be submitted.
About 99.9% of all submissions across the internet have not been
suitable for this agency which has held me back no end from having
something to even sell. Best of luck to all,

Adele Barron-Brooks
President, Barron's Literary Management
4615 Rockland Drive
Arlington, TX 76016
Jannbrooks@aol.com

[Medievalist]

Publishers are impressed with an educated person and are more
willing to invest in a new author with one or more degrees.

I look for multidegreed professionals here because of the competitive nature
of the publishing business and my areas of interest which are science fiction,
medical thrillers, forensic science thrillers, paranormal romance and numerous
others categories listed on various internet sites.

[snip]

Friends, the competition from best selling authors and more competent writers with English PHDs is awesome. Let that guide you in your work. Beyond finding a agent, the hard part is getting Editorial board approval and actually getting a contract issued.

The emphasis on degrees, outside of academic and scholarly publishing, strikes me as exceedingly odd. Particularly the assumption that a Ph.D. in English teaches you how to write; it does nothing of the kind, with the exception that a Ph.D. may, possibly, result in a recipient able to write exceedingly turgid academic prose, designed to be read by tenure committees--and they have to be paid to read it.

I find it difficult to take seriously an agent who is this misinformed, or possibly, naive, about publishing.

[victoriastrauss]

Asking the same questions here that I did in private correspondence with Ms. Brooks yesterday:
Just to clear up misconceptions about this literary agency: I do have 25 years writing, editing and publishing experience in medical journals, newpapers,
trade magazines, advertising copy, layout/design creation and more recently three years experience in the marketing of mass end intellectual property including novels, non-fiction, children's stories and short story collections.Could you be more specific, please? What company did you hold the marketing position with? Have you ever worked for a commercial book publisher or another literary agency?

Also, I'm not sure what "mass end intellectual property" is, unless there's a typo in there somewhere.
This is a new agency with only a few sales so farAgain, can you be more specific? What books have you placed, and with whom? I've searched the public record, and to date haven't been able to find any commercial sales for your agency.

One last thing: can you comment on reports I've received from two of your former clients who say you offered them your own editing services at a cost of several thousand dollars?

- Victoria

[victoriastrauss]

Just a followup note--obviously Ms. Brooks hasn't answered my questions here, but she hasn't answered them in private email either.

- Victoria

[travNastee]

Not specifically pointing out the intrepid Ms. Barron-Brooks here, just asking:

Why is it that when you try to look up an agent and find nothing, you come here.
When you ask a question about said agent that you can't find info for, and someone makes a possibly negative statement about said agent, the agent suddenly has a web presence?

So the true question is: Which possibility is the best bet?

1) Are these agents "Google"ing themselves and then finding these forums with their names in them and feeling inspired to respond?
or
2) Are there clients of theirs on here that refuse to defend their agent but instead go to the agent and go "DEFEND YOURSELF! THE INTERNET SAYS EN GUARDE!!"

Just askin', no ill will toward Ms. Barron-Brooks (should she return, lest she be categorized as another IsabellaBrown...oh, how I miss her)

[Mac H.]

1) Are these agents "Google"ing themselves and then finding these forums with their names in them and feeling inspired to respond?
or
2) Are there clients of theirs on here that refuse to defend their agent but instead go to the agent and go "DEFEND YOURSELF! THE INTERNET SAYS EN GUARDE!!"There is a third possibility. When I get involved in a discussion like this on the web, I try and contact the actual person as a courtesy to give them the 'right of reply'.

It's only reasonable to show them that others have had questions, and here is a forum to answer them on. They can clear up any misinformation. Also, as this board is often the first link on google when searching for someone's name, I think it's a good step to preserve this forum's credibility.

If they truly are a scammer, than there is nothing that they can put in their reply that will make them look good.
If not, then then we all learn something.

Eg: http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23333

Mac

[rejectME]

Wow! I haven't been on here in a while. Too busy writing I suppose. Anyway, I thought that I would give my two cents on Ms. Brooks and her "agency."

I worked briefly with her about a year and a half ago. She had requested a partial from me and offered some very helpful suggestions as far as readibility. As for grammar, she was way off and my editor since has questioned where I got said suggestions.
She often spoke of pending projects, but never gave me a concrete answer. She did, however, from time to time, send me another client's work and ask me to critique it. That seemed a little odd, but I was happy to help out the pther person. Every once and a while she would also send me a sample of someone's work and tell me that if mine was more like what she was sending me, an editor would be more inclined to excpet it. Fabulous! That person never published through her btw...
She said that she sent two partials two a couple of houses, but the editors she sent them to were not editors that normally read fiction. In fact, when researching the two houses, both prominent, these were two very high-up editors. I didn't question this, but it almost seemed as though she looked up an editor at the house and sent it. She said that she got a rejection back and e-mailed me what they supposedly said, but never sent me the actual letter. For all I know it was never submitted, but then again, maybe it was.
After a short time, JoAnn advised me that because she had to "edit" a lot of her client's work, she was going to be forced to charge a per page fee.
Our relationship ended at that point.
I would point out that she was always very kind to me, but we had differences of opinion of my novel and I always sort of felt like others who wanted something more concrete as to what her true credibility was.
When people say that it's better to not have an agent at all, than it is to have an agent who is not very good, this may very well be the case.
Now, in the time that has past, she may have had huge success and all the talent she told me about could be filling the walls. Who knows?
I think that Ms. Brooks is probably very talented and may have wanted to add literary agent onto her resume. The fact that she hasn't responded to Victoria says quite a bit.
I hope others had better luck!

Jay

[Adele Brooks]

Just a followup note--obviously Ms. Brooks hasn't answered my questions here, but she hasn't answered them in private email either.

- Victoria

Comment from Adele Barron-Brooks on 1-11-2006

Victoria:

You asked about my career and prior marketing and writing experience. My lifetime

achievements are diverse and very accomplished. During the years I designed

new products, I had managerial oversight for marketing research and competitive

intelligence gathering research for such companies as Kimberly Clark, Maybelline, BeautiControl as well as two entrepreneurial companies where I was CEO in the

early eighties and mid-nineties. This marketing work led the development of over

200 cosmetic, OTC drug, and medical device inventions. My products were

sold in Neiman Marcus as well as Wall* Mart. I have 7 patents assigned

in the US Patent Office with one pending. One of the patents is also assigned in

the European Patent Office. Before this work I worked as a management consultant

serving financial institutions and hospitals in the Texas and southwest region. To

do each of these jobs, I was frequently asked to write reports, proposals and negotiate contracts with customers to obtain the assignment. With an MBA and extensive business experience, I know how to manage money, and also run my own investment portfolio.



A few years back, one of the local universities asked me to speak to freshmen students about my career. I laughed and asked which one? When I gave the presentation I told them of the early days of going to night school while working in the medical field as a

certified allied health professional in clinical pathology, nuclear medicine technology,

xray technology and as a cancer research technician.



Looking back on my life, I’ve always been a very creative overachiever with great

passion for any work I’ve undertaken. I’m also a damn good oil painter and photographer. Agenting will likely be my final career along with my own writing projects.



You also mentioned editing. Only under emergency circumstances will I edit a client’s

manuscript on a fee basis or gratis. When I first opened the agency, I helped a few clients with edit projects when a publisher asked to read a full manuscript and the book needed additional polishing. I’ve also completed paid ghostwriting projects for foreign rights agents in Western Europe on translations. These days I don’t accept any work that needs significant edit work. If I see a good story with writing that can be improved, I recommend the client align himself/herself with a qualified editor and resubmit when the writing has improved. Since the early days, I’ve identified line editors who do excellent work and have long waiting times for their services. Many are expensive, but if an aspiring writer has met with rejection, a line edit will

often steer the writer in the right direction and result in publication. However,

none of the book doctors guarantee the completed project will attract agency representation or publishing contracts.



There is another aspect of agenting that many folks don’t quite understand. An agent’s

chief task is to get a client’s work seen by editors who could find interest in the

project. Books are bought on writing talent and a strong story concept. An author’s

book needs to be not only technically flawless, but it has to reach out and grab

an editor by the neck or they won’t take it to editorial board for approval. Agents

can get your work seen, but none can guarantee a sale.



After someone hacked into my computer last year and contacted several clients,

I don’t write anything about clients or sales over the internet. I share information

on stateside as well as international sales on a need to know basis only.



Best of luck to all.



Adele Barron-Brooks, President

Barron’s Literary Management

4615 Rockland Drive

Arlington, TX 76016

Jannbrooks@aol.com (Jannbrooks@aol.com)



P.S. Sorry for the delay in responding, but my mother is very ill and I've
been helping out with her care. Also, I have not had any clients named
Jay here. I didn't receive any private correspondence at all from Victoria.

[travNastee]

Comment from Adele Barron-Brooks on 1-11-2006

(1)...sold in Neiman Marcus as well as Wall* Mart.

(2)I didn't receive any private correspondence at all from Victoria.

First off, shouldn't that read 2-11-2006. Unless she's totally psychic...

1) Wall*Mart? Is it a store that sells nothing but wall products? Oh you mean the 500 lbs. gorilla Wal-Mart...gotcha.

2) Why in the world would Victoria lie about such a thing? What does she stand to gain by doing so?

After someone hacked into my computer last year and contacted several clients, I don’t write anything about clients or sales over the internet.

Okay, fine, but what does having your computer hacked into and sharing info over the net have to do with one another? If the information is stored on a networked computer, it is still accessible should a hacker wish to get their hands on it, regardless if you call attention to it or not.

[Aconite]

You asked about my career and prior marketing and writing experience. My lifetime achievements are diverse and very accomplished. During the years I designed new products, I had managerial oversight for marketing research and competitive ]intelligence gathering research for such companies as Kimberly Clark, Maybelline, BeautiControl as well as two entrepreneurial companies where I was CEO in the early eighties and mid-nineties. This marketing work led the development of over 200 cosmetic, OTC drug, and medical device inventions. My products were sold in Neiman Marcus as well as Wall* Mart. I have 7 patents assignedin the US Patent Office with one pending. One of the patents is also assigned inthe European Patent Office. Before this work I worked as a management consultant serving financial institutions and hospitals in the Texas and southwest region. To do each of these jobs, I was frequently asked to write reports, proposals and negotiate contracts with customers to obtain the assignment. With an MBA and extensive business experience, I know how to manage money, and also run my own investment portfolio. A few years back, one of the local universities asked me to speak to freshmen students about my career. I laughed and asked which one? When I gave the presentation I told them of the early days of going to night school while working in the medical field as a certified allied health professional in clinical pathology, nuclear medicine technology, xray technology and as a cancer research technician. Looking back on my life, I’ve always been a very creative overachiever with great passion for any work I’ve undertaken. I’m also a damn good oil painter and photographer. Agenting will likely be my final career along with my own writing projects.

What's missing from this list is:
1.) any agenting experience, and
2.) evidence of excellence in any of these fields. There are some people who job-hop because they're good at everything they do and they like fresh adventures, but the most common cause for job-hopping is poor performance.

You wouldn't be the first person to think books are like any other salable product. Some big companies have lost a lot of money by making that mistake.

[victoriastrauss]

I didn't receive any private correspondence at all from Victoria.I've just re-sent you my email of January 23, responding to your email of January 23 (in which, among other comments, you accused me of lying and threatened me with litigation).

Thanks for responding here, and for providing details on your professional background. Your credentials are impressive, but they don't appear to include any experience in trade publishing or as a literary agent. I'm also not clear on why a bad experience with a computer hacker would preclude you listing any sales you've made. That information becomes public as soon as a publisher announces a book, after all. Plus, it'd be good advertising for you.

I don't see any reason to change my assessment of your agency.

- Victoria

[DaveKuzminski]

I think P&E needs to add a new criteria for evasiveness.

[Aconite]

I think it’s terrible that people like her, who work as hard as she obviously has, can’t be successful. Just shows what an insular world this publishing business is.Yes, of course, it must be that the publishing world is set up to keep talented people out. It couldn't possibly be that she doesn't know what the hell she's doing, or anything like that.

[victoriastrauss]

I think it’s terrible that people like her, who work as hard as she obviously has, can’t be successful. Just shows what an insular world this publishing business is.No. It shows that to do a skilled job, you need job skills. I am continually amazed by people who wouldn't consider hiring a building contractor without checking references and experience, but are willing to give a "chance" to a literary agent who has no relevant professional background. Why is it that so many writers seem to think that a literary agent doesn't need training and experience, like any other professional? If it were that easy, agents wouldn't be needed at all.

- Victoria

[Julie Worth]

No. It shows that to do a skilled job, you need job skills. I am continually amazed by people who wouldn't consider hiring a building contractor without checking references and experience, but are willing to give a "chance" to a literary agent who has no relevant professional background. Why is it that so many writers seem to think that a literary agent doesn't need training and experience, like any other professional? If it were that easy, agents wouldn't be needed at all.

- Victoria

Really? I'd think building a house would be far more complicated than hawking a book. And that connections more than skill would be the thing that separates the successful from the unsuccessful.

[victoriastrauss]

Really? I'd think building a house would be far more complicated than hawking a book. And that connections more than skill would be the thing that separates the successful from the unsuccessful.Agents do much more than "hawk a book." They provide career guidance, money management, and advocacy. They also sell subsidiary rights, an important aspect of the job that's often overlooked by new writers desperate to publish for the first time.

Skills needed by a literary agent include the ability to recognize a marketable manuscript (a largely subjective process and subject to error, but still not an easy task), a deep knowledge of the publishing industry, and a great deal of specialized knowledge such as an understanding of publishing contract terms. These are skills that can best be acquired by actually working in publishing or for a reputable agency--which is the same thing that gives you those connections--so the two go hand in hand. Generally speaking, an agent who has the necessary connections will also have the necessary skills. An agent who doesn't, won't.

Unfortunately many writers refuse to believe that there is much skill involved, and construct conspiracy theories for why writers need agents. I really find it hard to understand.

- Victoria

[CaoPaux]

Really? I'd think building a house would be far more complicated than hawking a book. And that connections more than skill would be the thing that separates the successful from the unsuccessful.Anyone can wield a hammer. Not everyone can wield a hammer efficiently. Fewer still know what order to nail boards together to build a house.

Anyone can walk up to editors at a conference. Not everyone can keep them from calling security. Fewer still can get them to accept a proposal.

Anyone can call themselves an agent. Not everyone can discover what acquiring editors seek. Fewer still can properly access a ms for publishability, much less get it into the right hands at the right time.

What separates the successful from the unsuccessful is...success. If one styles themselves as an agent replete with connections and marketing skill, then I'd think it'd be a pretty simple matter to measure their success, yes?

[Kasey Mackenzie]

Unfortunately many writers refuse to believe that there is much skill involved, and construct conspiracy theories for why writers need agents. I really find it hard to understand.

It perplexes me, too. But, on the other hand, that decreases the number of people submitting properly to the agents' slush piles!

[Lauri B]

I think it’s terrible that people like her, who work as hard as she obviously has, can’t be successful.


You're joking, right? Seriously: if I worked all day and all night trying to come up with a new patent for a car engine and in the end didn't succeed (because I'm a book editor and know absolutely nothing about cars, how they work, or how the automotive industry itself works), would you say how terrible it is that even though I tried really, really hard, the automotive industry won't allow me to succeed? Give those of us who work hard in this profession, have experience and are good at what we do a little credit. Puhleeze.

[Julie Worth]

You're joking, right? Seriously: if I worked all day and all night trying to come up with a new patent for a car engine and in the end didn't succeed (because I'm a book editor and know absolutely nothing about cars, how they work, or how the automotive industry itself works), would you say how terrible it is that even though I tried really, really hard, the automotive industry won't allow me to succeed? Give those of us who work hard in this profession, have experience and are good at what we do a little credit. Puhleeze.

No, I'm not joking. The agenting business is as much about contacts as it is about having a nose for what's good. And it's the same in industry. People patent things all the time, and then allow those patents to lapse. Why? Because they don't have the contacts, so they can't sell them. A patent means nothing to industry. They're not going to read it with the idea of buying it (though they might occasionally read one to get around it). And so you have inventors trying to commercialize their inventions themselves (the equivalent of self-publishing), after failing to market the invention to corporate management (the equivalent of querying). The situation is actually worse than in the literary world, because almost all invention promotion firms are scams.

And as for skills, I wasn't talking about editors, only about agents. The primary function of an agent is to get a skilled author together with a skilled editor/publisher. It's essentially a sales position, not so much a skill as a talent, not so much a talent as a personality type.

[Aconite]

Julie, industry experts tell you how these things really work, and you--an inexperienced outsider--argue with them. Take a minute and think about that, eh?

[Aconite]

The unfortunate thing is, when I recently tried to add a second person to my ignore list, the system bumped you off, as you're now a moderator, and moderators can't be on ignore lists. Think about that, why don't you, when you weigh in with nothing.Why, exactly, is what I said there "nothing"? You say so when I point out that you don't know as much as the people you're arguing with, but you've never explained it.

[Lauri B]

No, I'm not joking. The agenting business is as much about contacts as it is about having a nose for what's good. The primary function of an agent is to get a skilled author together with a skilled editor/publisher. It's essentially a sales position, not so much a skill as a talent, not so much a talent as a personality type.





I won't argue that good agents have good contacts, but they certainly don't get them just because they have a particular "sales" personality. They have good contacts because they have experience in the publishing field. I work with agents and with unagented authors. Believe me, a good agent is not just someone with a particular personality. I have had lots of inexperienced agents approach me with projects (or send me email blitzes saying, come see if there's anything you like, or fill out this survey so I know what kind of stuff you might want and all sorts of other stupid stuff that makes me wonder why they bother) and it's very, very clear that they don't know what they are doing. I am a small, niche publisher, and I'm getting this stuff--so can you imagine what it's like for the big publishers, who get bombarded by people like the woman above, who doesn't know what she's doing but thinks since she tries really hard she deserves to succeed? Agenting is not just another sales position, and my strongest advice to anyone searching for an agent is to submit ONLY to agents who have extensive experience in the publishing industry.
Julie, I think you and I will need to agree to disagree on this one. Best of luck to you with your writing projects!
Lauri

[victoriastrauss]

It's essentially a sales position, not so much a skill as a talent, not so much a talent as a personality type.It's a mistake to equate the selling agents do with other kinds of commercial selling. It really is not the same at all. The skills aren't necessarily transferable, and the kind of sales personality you find in a successful car salesman or real estate agent (and I agree that there is a "sales" personality that's important for these kinds of positions) is neither needed nor expected in an agent. Nevertheless, people with backgrounds in selling advertising or other commercial products sometimes set themselves up as agents, believing that sales savvy is the most important qualification, and inexperienced new writers are willing to be convinced.

- Victoria

[Birol]

The unfortunate thing is, when I recently tried to add a second person to my ignore list, the system bumped you off, as you're now a moderator, and moderators can't be on ignore lists. Think about that, why don't you, when you weigh in with nothing.

Julie, your main complaint against Aconite appears to be that she does not permit some of your more perplexing statements to go by unchallenged. Rather than become irritated with her, why do you not simply explain your position because, quite frankly, some of what you encourage others to do defies what I consider to be common sense. I would be interested in hearing your explanations and answers to Aconite's questions in order to better understand your position and beliefs.

[NicoleJLeBoeuf]

Anyone can walk up to editors at a conference. Not everyone can keep them from calling security.I just wanted to say that this here gave me the biggest chuckle of my day. Can I steal this for my random writing-related quote generator?

[CaoPaux]

I'd be honored, Nicole! Filch away. :D

It's essentially a sales position, not so much a skill as a talent, not so much a talent as a personality type.Erm, how many agents have you met? I'm surprised you haven't declared that an agent needs to be a certain height, weight, and/or ethnicity, since that has as much bearing on placing books as personality. Heck, our resident editors have horror stories about agents who are difficult personalities to work with, yet they deal with them because they bring them publishable books.

Successful agents think in terms of acquisitions, not sales. They (should) already know what their stable of editors wants at any given time, therefore the onus is to find a writer who can deliver, not a publisher to convince. As I've mentioned before, agented slush is what happens when an agent doesn't have what it takes to put a book into the hands of an editor who's looking for it. So what's it take: Skill? Talent? Personality? +3 Cap of Smoozing? Whatever it is, an agent needs to use it to get the job done. Period.

Ms. Barron-Brooks has yet to sell a book. To blame the industry is laughable: If she isn't offering editors what they're looking for, how is that their fault?

Presuming she has used her skills, talent, and personality to learn what the editors want, AND to form the relationships necessary to have her submissions accepted as solicited material, if what she submits is consistently unpublishable then editors will soon stop accepting her submissions as solicited. And may even stop accepting her submissions at all. (Yes, it happens. Usually with scammers and/or shotgunners, but editors won't waste their time opening material from an agent who doesn't know publishable.)

Where the problem is, only Ms. Barron-Brooks can answer.

[Birol]

I have known successful sales professionals in the past. Not talking used car salesmen here, but highly paid members of the sales force. Although a certain personality may make some individuals well-suited to a career in sales, their profession is as much about technique and skill as is any other.

[Julie Worth]

Weird. The protagonist in my WIP is named Adele. I just noticed the connection.

[Provrb1810meggy]

I discovered an agent that I've submitted to isn't reputable. They don't scam or anything. They just don't have relative experience and/or sales. If they reply asking for a partial, what do you say? Should you respond to them at all?

[johnnysannie]

If you feel uncertain about their track record - which in this case appears to be non-existent - and have qualms for any reason, why bother? Just don't and move onward in the search for an experienced, reputable agent!

[Soccer Mom]

I wouldn't ignore someone who was kind enough to respond to a query, even if I didn't think that person was skilled enough to be the agent I am looking for. I would respond with a polite: No, thank you. Please disregard my query. I have decided to go in a different direction. Politeness doesn't cost anything.

[stormie]

I discovered an agent that I've submitted to isn't reputable. They don't scam or anything. They just don't have relative experience and/or sales.

An agent who isn't reputable is someone who scams. To me it sounds like the agent just doesn't have a track record yet. Did you look this agent up on preditors and editors? http://www.invirtuo.cc/prededitors/ Or agentquery.com and cross-reference? There are plenty of good agents who are just starting out. If, by chance, the agent does like your work, and wants to rep you, then you can ask all the questions. Then decide. I wouldn't cross him/her off your list yet, if they check out okay.

[Anonymisty]

I discovered an agent that I've submitted to isn't reputable. They don't scam or anything. They just don't have relative experience and/or sales.

My agent's first big sale was my novel

I'd say go with your intuition. If you feel uncomfortable, tell the agent 'no thank you' and move on. If you're willing to take a chance on an unknown, it could turn out well for you both.

[davids]

100 percent dittos with Anonymisty-you just never know

[CaitlinK18]

Would you mind putting up the name of the agency? That might render the board better-able to offer advice.

[Provrb1810meggy]

It's Adele Brooks of the Barron Literary Agency.

[Marlys]

There's a thread about her here (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=864).

[Provrb1810meggy]

Yes, because of this thread, I didn't want to send her a partial.

[Lydia Manx]

I landed on the is board doing my homework. One of my query letters was responded to and I had a request for a partial and a bio on myself. The person hadn't been on the list first time I had compiled my query names but nevertheless I googled the name and found the person was associated quite heavily with folks who had their hands out. One of the gentlemen here kindly pointed out that the money should go in one direction...to the author not away. I vented with my friends and critique groups but avoided replying to the letter.

[aruna]

Bumping up this thread because I just read it for the first time and almost fell off my chair in amazement.
She wants multi-degreed authors!!!! OMG.
The rest of the discussion is equally amazing. An entertaining and useful read.

[Roger J Carlson]

It's a mistake to equate the selling agents do with other kinds of commercial selling. It really is not the same at all. The skills aren't necessarily transferable, and the kind of sales personality you find in a successful car salesman or real estate agent (and I agree that there is a "sales" personality that's important for these kinds of positions) is neither needed nor expected in an agent. Nevertheless, people with backgrounds in selling advertising or other commercial products sometimes set themselves up as agents, believing that sales savvy is the most important qualification, and inexperienced new writers are willing to be convinced.

- VictoriaAbsolutely. As we all know from the Music Man, a salesman "has to know the territory." Understanding the business is the most important part of a saleman's job. People who start an agency but don't have any background in publishing don't "know the territory."

[Atomic Bear]

I agree, Aruna. That was me the whole time.

I know this is off topic, but can I just say that whenever I come into the BBC forum, I always have this, "YES!!!!" kind of feeling when Victoria, Cao, Aconite and Roger come across an agent who isn't quite kosher and just, oh, I don't know... let them have it.

Okay, I return everyone to the regularly scheduled thread.

I agree. I love to see someone who is obviously up to no good get put in there place. Makes me feel good to be on the board. So for the brave men and women who fight Writing scams....I salute you. And I too will let you get back to the post in progress.

[asorum]

...She wants multi-degreed authors!!!! OMG... It works that way, right ? http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Roger J Carlson]

I know this is off topic, but can I just say that whenever I come into the BBC forum, I always have this, "YES!!!!" kind of feeling when Victoria, Cao, Aconite and Roger come across an agent who isn't quite kosher and just, oh, I don't know... let them have it. I just like to inject a note of reason here.

While it IS fun to flense an obvious scammer and sockpuppet, that is not the only (or even MAJOR) purpose of this forum. The REAL purpose of this forum is to share peer-to-peer information about the publishing world.

Agents and publishers come in different shades of respectability (although these are not always clearly delineated.) In general, we have The Scammer, The Sockpuppet, The Clueless, The Newbie, and The Respectable. The problem is that recently, this board has tended to treat EVERY publisher or agent who comes here defend themselves like a scammer or sockpuppet.

This tendency has given Bewares and Background Check a hit-man reputation that it doesn't really deserve or want. We really need to give new posters the benefit of the doubt, ask polite questions, and see where it leads. Depending on how they answer, then it is time to determine how to respond.

So please, let's be polite and remember, the purpose here is the share information among ourselves and not to bash people indiscriminately.

[Popeyesays]

I just like to inject a note of reason here.

While it IS fun to flense an obvious scammer and sockpuppet, that is not the only (or even MAJOR) purpose of this forum. The REAL purpose of this forum is to share peer-to-peer information about the publishing world.

Agents and publishers come in different shades of respectability (although these are not always clearly delineated.) In general, we have The Scammer, The Sockpuppet, The Clueless, The Newbie, and The Respectable. The problem is that recently, this board has tended to treat EVERY publisher or agent who comes here defend themselves like a scammer or sockpuppet.

This tendency has given Bewares and Background Check a hit-man reputation that it doesn't really deserve or want. We really need to give new posters the benefit of the doubt, ask polite questions, and see where it leads. Depending on how they answer, then it is time to determine how to respond.

So please, let's be polite and remember, the purpose here is the share information among ourselves and not to bash people indiscriminately.

This echoes some concerns of my own. Thanks, Roger. There's a lot of differene between scam and naive. The naive should be left alone to succeed or fail as their own efforts dictate. The scam artists should be identified and have all the light of public awareness shone upon them. Wild accusations are too reminiscent of the J'accuse of the French Revolutionary Tribunal or the 'accusation sessions of the Cultural Revolution of Maoist days.

It is not a good accolade to be the 'hitman' of bulletin boards.

It's one thing to warn about the dangers of going with an ineffective agent, and yet another to assume that an ineffective agent is running a scam, Naivete is not evil intent; I think we'd do well to remember that.

Regards,
Scott

[James D. Macdonald]

Politeness and professionalism aren't optional. A brief, "No, thank you," note wouldn't be out of place. Treat others as you would wish to be treated.

[Provrb1810meggy]

Rest assured to everyone, I sent her a polite note, saying "No, thank you," or something like that.

[SK Kane]

Does anyone have any updated information on this agent?

I queried her and she requested some sample pages. I'm going to try asking her for specifics on her sales, but I don't want to go much further than a short sample until I learn more.

[victoriastrauss]

Since my last post about Ms. Brooks (see page 1 of the thread), I've gotten reports from former clients to whom Ms. Brooks recommended her own paid editing services (apart from the fact that it's unclear whether she's qualified to edit for money, this is a conflict of interest). I'm not aware that she has made any sales.

- Victoria

[SK Kane]

She wants 150 pages from me now. I can't send it right away because I'm waiting out a two week exclusive. I'll have to consider how to proceed.

[MartyKay]

Well.. by the sounds of it, you can give her the 150 pages and wait a few more weeks; or put it on a shelf for a few weeks for the same overall outcome.

[carmar]

Does anyone who has had recent contact with Ms. Brooks have any positive feedback about her or her agency?

Is she a scammer or just inexperienced?

[Roger J Carlson]

Is she a scammer or just inexperienced?Does it matter?

[CaoPaux]

She shills for paid editing and has no sales. Why are you considering her?

[victoriastrauss]

Is she a scammer or just inexperienced?From a writer's perspective, there is no difference between a scam agent and an amateur agent. Really. A scammer doesn't want to sell your book; an amateur doesn't know how to sell your book. You get the same result in either case.

- Victoria

[carmar]

Yes, but...an inexperienced agent has the potential to improve and become an experienced agent. A scammer only has the potential to eventually wind up in jail.

Besides...all those inexperienced agents out there might prefer it if writers didn't lump them in the same heap with scammers...Just thinking from their point of view.

Also...I am not considering going with Ms. Brooks. I did have some contact with her awhile back. She was polite, seemed quite intelligent, gave me a few pointers (free pointers) and that's about it. I merely thought I should metion that I had contact with the lady and nothing untoward befell me.

[LloydBrown]

Besides...all those inexperienced agents out there might prefer it if writers didn't lump them in the same heap with scammers...

Then they should get experience with a legitimate agency before they hang their shingle.

It's not like being a bad cashier or a bad garbage collector. In those jobs, you might cost your company some efficiency, but you don't cause people to lose years' worth of investment or take money for services you can't actually provide.

Enough ineptitude is tantamount to actively trying to harm someone. The distinction is academic if the result is the same.

[Roger J Carlson]

Yes, but...an inexperienced agent has the potential to improve and become an experienced agent. The evidence doesn't support this. Most reputable agents come from one of two places: another reputable agency, or a reputable publisher. In either case, they are not "inexperienced" in publishing. There are dozens of examples on this list alone of agents with no background in publishing starting their own agency. None of them has succeeded.

I'm sure these clueless agents would prefer not to be lumped in with the scammers, but as Victoria said, the result for the writer is the same: no sales.

[Momento Mori]

carmar:
Yes, but...an inexperienced agent has the potential to improve and become an experienced agent.

True - but why be the person they practice with if you can get someone with experience and the know-withall to actually sell your book? Unless an inexperienced agent can prove that they know people in reputable publishing companies (i.e. they have the contacts to actually make a sale), you're probably better off trying your luck on the slush pile because that's where an inexperienced agent will send you anyway.

carmar:
I merely thought I should metion that I had contact with the lady and nothing untoward befell me.

I would hope not - nothing untoward should happen to you just by having contact with someone. Unfortunately nothing period seems to happen to you when you sign this person up to be your agent.

MM

[victoriastrauss]

Yes, but...an inexperienced agent has the potential to improve and become an experienced agent.And someone who has never used a hammer or saw has the potential to improve and become an experienced carpenter. But how likely is it? And what's going to happen to the people who use his services in the meantime?

Agenting is not an entry level job. It's a skilled profession that requires specialized expertise and an inside knowledge of the publishing industry. Since there's no formal licensing or training for agents, the best way to acquire these is to actually work in publishing or for a reputable agency. People who haven't done this are at a major disadvantage. Once in a while, with a lot of hard work, they manage to break in, but most of the time they don't. And who pays the price of that inexpertise? The client.
Besides...all those inexperienced agents out there might prefer it if writers didn't lump them in the same heap with scammers...Yes, I imagine they would. And I acknowledge that there is a distinction between scamming, as in deliberately setting out to deceive and defraud, and incompetence, as in presenting yourself as capable of doing a job you don't actually know how to do. However, from the writer's perspective, the end result really is the same, and I don't feel any obligation to spare the tender feelings of incompetent agents by saying it more euphemistically. Even if an amateur agent is well-intentioned--and many of them are--they are harming those they claim to serve. I have no tolerance whatever for that.

- Victoria

[batgirl]

Yesterday my husband read this quote, which seems apropos: "Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice."
-Barbara

[carmar]

Thanks for the speedy education! I stand corrected...and I mean it sincerely, Thank you all for your input.

[victoriastrauss]

There's no norm, really--you might hear back within hours, or it might take days, weeks, or months, depending on the agency, your manuscript, and a host of factors you can't predict. The motto you need to adopt when you start querying is "expect anything."

Hopefully you're researching everyone you query to make sure they're reputable. One way to get a quick response is to query a scammer.

- Victoria

[J. R. Tomlin]

I just like to inject a note of reason here.

While it IS fun to flense an obvious scammer and sockpuppet, that is not the only (or even MAJOR) purpose of this forum. The REAL purpose of this forum is to share peer-to-peer information about the publishing world.

Agents and publishers come in different shades of respectability (although these are not always clearly delineated.) In general, we have The Scammer, The Sockpuppet, The Clueless, The Newbie, and The Respectable. The problem is that recently, this board has tended to treat EVERY publisher or agent who comes here defend themselves like a scammer or sockpuppet.

This tendency has given Bewares and Background Check a hit-man reputation that it doesn't really deserve or want. We really need to give new posters the benefit of the doubt, ask polite questions, and see where it leads. Depending on how they answer, then it is time to determine how to respond.

So please, let's be polite and remember, the purpose here is the share information among ourselves and not to bash people indiscriminately.I have noticed (and commented in the recent past) on exactly this tendancy. Bashing people who come here to give honest answers is a very bad idea. If they are proven to be dishonest, then slamming them is justified. But they should be given at least the benefit of reasonable courtesy and should be SHOWN to be less than up and up FIRST.

I have seen some very rude responses to people who have done nothing more than respond politely to questions about their business. I found it quite disturbing.

Edit: That is not to say I know anything about this particular agency, which I don't. But this is a tendancy that should not, in my opinion, be encouraged.

[JulieB]

It's possible to get a fast response from a reputable agent, but it doesn't happen often. A friend of mine sent an e-query to one a few months ago (they accept e-queries) and got a "not for us" back overnight.

I'm not sure that the manuscript was the type of thing this agent represents, which may be why my friend got such a fast response.

I suspect that scammers are more likely to say "yes" quickly.

[J. R. Tomlin]

I think you can say that not everyone who answers quickly is a scammer, but a scammer will always answer quickly. :)

[Popeyesays]

I queried an agent who apparently was on line taking care of correspondence on line when the inquiry hit his in box. Twenty minutes later he asked for the first fifty pages. Next morning he sent regrets.

It all depends on timing with e-queries.

Regards,
Scott

[victoriastrauss]

What do you mean by "One way to get a quick response is to query a scammer"? Are you saying that scammers usually ask for email queries and respond quickly?What I'm saying is that scammers invite everyone to submit, and accept everyone who does, because they're out to get your money, and don't care about the quality of your manuscript. So scammers typically respond fast and frequently. However, that does NOT mean that an agent who responds quickly is necessarily questionable. As others have pointed out, it all depends on timing. If catch a good agent at the right moment with an interesting query, you can hear back extremely fast. If you're satisfied through your research that the agent is reputable, a fast response doesn't need to make you suspicious.

Both good agents and scammers use email; both good agents and scammers also use snail mail. So that's not a way to tell either.

The bottom line is track record, or, if the agent is new, previous publishing or agenting experience.

- Victoria

[Old Hack]

I've had representation by three agents over the years, all of whom responded to my initial query within three or four days and then offered representation within a week. All three were/are fabulous agents (one was A P Watt, the oldest literary agency in the world). As Victoria says, while a speedy response can indicate a scammer, it can also mean that you hit lucky somewhere.

[waylander]

I recently got an agent. Queried by e-mail on Tuesday, representation agreed on Friday.

[JulieB]

True, Old Hack.

I would amend the advice to say that a speedy response does not indicate a scammer, but if they start asking for money or referring you to specific editing services, then it's probably best to move along with your search for an agent.

[Old Hack]

Yes, I'm in the UK and my agents have all been in London. I've never been charged any mailing fees unless the agent has sold my work--then they take reasonable amounts from the advance, etc.

[CaoPaux]

Three years in business and still no sales: http://publishersmarketplace.com/members/jab8888/

[Robyn]

Ok...... i have my own input on this. I queried this agent today... got a response quickly asking for the first 100 pages. Her response within the next hourish still has me completely amazed.

In a nutshell she declined (no biggie there) but her thougths are what has me wondering. My MS is a Paranormal Romance. It isn't catagory by any means. Ie.. single title. Her words to me... You can't start the novel with the hero's POV. <head does double take to re-read> I responded to her (very nicely i might add) indicating that the PoV shifts in the story to the heroine/hero depending on the scene. I mentioned other well known authors who began stories in the hero's pov.

Her reply? If you want to reposition the work as straight horror versus romance then that could be an option, but opening with a man's point of view is not right for the romance category.

Ok.. first off.. no way she read any of what i wrote as there is NOTHING that would be considered horror in it. Secondly, she never even addressed the fact that this isn't a catagory romance. <boggle>

Sorry but I had my doubts on this one just by the questionable answers/emails I received back.

[waylander]

I really think that you haven't lost anything at all by this

[Queen of Swords]

Her reply? If you want to reposition the work as straight horror versus romance then that could be an option, but opening with a man's point of view is not right for the romance category.

Someone should let Lorraine Heath know. Her romance novel Always to Remember is a favorite of mine, and it starts with the hero's POV. And poor Pamela Morsi, both the prologue and the first chapter of her novel The Love Charm begin with the hero's POV. Not right for the romance category, Ms. Morsi. What was Avon thinking?

[madmumbler]

I queried her before I found this thread (months ago) and...uh-uh. She wanted to see the full but she had a bunch of suggestions that were out of left field that NO ONE else (and the ms had gone through the IWW Lovestory-L list for peer review, not to mention numerous test reads by fellow writers) mentioned.

Now that same ms is being published elsewhere. Without her "suggested changes."

And one of the writers on a list I'm on just queried her and got the "can't start in male POV" spiel too. (The funny thing is, as soon as she mentioned what happened, I thought about this agent and sure enough when we compared notes, it's her. *LOL*) So this agent is still SSDD. (And, oh yeah, my book - "Love & Brimstone" - starts in the male POV! *LOL*)

[Kate Alister]

I was very excited when she responded to my query letter and synopsis and wanted to see ten pages in the body of an email. I was even more excited when she wanted me to send her 100 pages that I in ebullient bliss mailed to her. After a week she said that for a romance, the story had to begin with the heroine, not the hero as mine did.

Easy enough to change, since I had that version available. I changed it so it would be a little different than the norm. What do I know, I'm still trying to find an agent let alone have been published. I sent her the revision of the first couple of chapters.

Then she replied by saying that the writing wasn't strong enough. She made a suggestion as to where I should start the story. At this point, she still had not offered to represent me. Anxious to please, I googled to try and find out what strong writing actually meant. I found some suggestions and made changes that did improve the beginning of the story, but I was unwilling to cut out some of the story that I thought was important so I just let it go and didn't reply.

It seems to me that when she read the first 10 pages she should have said then that the writing wasn't strong enough and that the romance had to start with the heroine?????

The saga continues. After another month of sending query letters to other agents, without success, I sent Adele the query for my second book of the series. After all, she did say she liked the idea. Adele responded immediately wanting the first ten pages. Happily, I complied because this book had the elements that she said were needed.

The story is based on a sexy Special Forces Elite team. Five men and a sexy female sniper (CIA) but someone else does the dirty work because they all have integrity and valor. It's fiction after all, LOL. The story takes place in Houston and in the Gulf of Mexico. It's about terrorists trying to destroy our oil supply. I thought with Adele being a Texan and the climate is ripe with the gas prices so high it might be easy to sell.

She replied with, "It didn't get my interest as I hoped it might, sorry. Best of luck elsewhere."

I thought that was an insensitive, actually mean reply.

Next I tried to find her website which I should have done first and came up with this website instead. I think Adele may have some personal issues and just wants to mess with writer's heads. She doesn't seem to have a legitimate website of her own, and because others have had her ask for the entire manuscript without representation, I'm sure I'm right.

[HumbleScribe]

What gets me is how prominent best-selling annual guides listing agencies seemingly can't be bothered to hire even a college kid at minimum wage to run Google on these agents (and easily find the ones they shouldn't list in their guides). Case in point: Writer's Digest Novel & Short Story Writer's Market. Yep, she's in there. Then again, said guide's listings don't list a peep about agency sales, which really levels the playing field (misleadingly, IMO). And although I could start a whole separate thread about Jeff Herman's guide listing scores of the worst-of-the-worst agents within his list, it's n/a in this particular agency not being listed there. I'm serious: it would take no longer than... say, two, maybe three hours for a minimalist scan of these agencies in said guides to do a coarse listing of which have scores of bad reviews, and then have that "internet clerk" forward the list to a more qualified reviewer to verify there's enough question marks to refrain from listing them in their guide. Yet clearly, it's simply not done, as evidenced by a surprising number listed in Herman's and WD's guides every year gone unpurged. Rather than extending to conspiracy theories of guidebook author-agent collusion, I bet it's nutt'n more than final editing laziness and (in my view) a lack of pride in one's guide. That's my take. A little final-pass homework on their part would save us some of the heavy weeding. Am I right?

[Nya RAyne]

Has anyone dealt with this agent or agency on a professional basis? What can you tell me? Should her critique be valued or avoided?

[regdog]

Here's her Publisher's Marketplace page (http://www.publishersmarketplace.com/members/jab8888/)

Doesn't list any sales or clients. P&E doesn't list any complaints or a $

[M.R.J. Le Blanc]

Or relevant experience. 3 years and no sales? Not good.

[Nya RAyne]

She doesn't offer contracts. Is that a good or bad thing? Maybe that's why she doesn't have any sales.

[HumbleScribe]

Ideally? They should have a contract available, which they offer as an option. But I've read comments within threads on AW that many say they have a working unwritten agreement with their agent, and are happy (understanding what agency costs are involved if there's any office printing/shipping/faxing/telephone fees, 15%/20% commission percentage domestic/international, etc.).
If they're not pleased how their agent is doing submitting their mss. to publishers, they stop dealing with them, period, and don't even have to deal with a contract's possible advance notification requirements.

The real contract of interest is the publisher's contract.

That all said, if given a choice, I'd like to see a contract, just because it would be a first time for me with any agent. But that's me. Especially if it's with a less well-known agent/agency.

Documented sales (and not just to publishers who don't even require an agent), preferably within one's genre, seems the most important criteria though.

[Eirin]

Not offering a contract is a bad thing.

I can't stress that enough.

No real, legitimate agent would take a writer on without a legally binding contract. Why do all the agenting work, then risk the author cutting the agent off from the deal?

Publishing is a business. As in all business deals, you want to ensure that particulars can be legally enforced, should it become necessary. You don't want to work with someone who doesn't offer a contract as a matter of course. He or she is not a professional.

[rejectME]

This agent cannot and will not sell your mss. You are just as well off contacting the publishing house yourself.

[victoriastrauss]

No real, legitimate agent would take a writer on without a legally binding contract.

This is not true. Some very eminent agents work on a handshake basis. The handshake agreement was the norm up until a couple of decades ago, with the financial arrangements formalized in the agent-of-record clause in the publishing contract.

I'd agree, though, that a contract is desirable these days. As Erin points out, it protects both the agent and the author. If the agent wants to have a handshake relationship, it's a good idea to send him or her an email spelling out whatever arrangements (royalties, termination provisions, etc.) you've agreed to over the phone.

Track record really is the bottom line. If an agent has been in business for a number of years and can still show no sales, s/he's not an agent you want to take a chance on, contract or no contract.

- Victoria

[Eirin]

This is not true. Some very eminent agents work on a handshake basis.


Surely not with people they've never heard of, or know in some way? That sounds downright reckless.

Edited to clarify:

I don't doubt what you say, Victoria. I'm just surprised.

[FionnaFlynn]

Newbie here. Am in process of sending out query ltrs and just heard from Ms. Adele Brooks. Thanks for cluing me in...she now wants me to snail mail manuscript for her review. Needless to say, after reading (and joining your group), I won't be doing that.

As Mad-eye Moody would say, "Constant vigilence!"

But TG for groups like this and the internet in general, because basically if you do any kind of checking at all, you can find out very quickly if someone is reputable or not.

[holdencaulfield]

I sent Adele Brooks at Barron a query a few weeks ago and she was very prompt to get back to me and ask for additional pages. But, I think that is because she doesn't have any clients, and just likes to read potential novels. Does anyone know if she has any clients?

I am not sure what her reading comprehension skills are like, because she seemed to have trouble with the simple fact that there was more than one main character in the plot and she couldn't follow all four of them. Maybe she doesn't like that style of narrative, but it seems like she can only follow "see spot run" material. A friend submitted a query and went through the same process and critique. She wanted to change the characters, settings, plot, etc. I fear she may be a failed novelist herself and simply looking for a way to dull that pain by criticizing others.

I may be wrong, but I doubt it. I would suggest avoiding her unless you have been rejected by every real agent in the western world.

[holdencaulfield]

Has anyone heard of this Agency?
Been represented by it?

Based in Arlington, Texas.
As is the National Association of Women Writers ...
anyone heard of that either?

... inquiring minds want to know!



Yeah, she is NO agent, has no clients and makes no deals. Avoid like the plague.

[holdencaulfield]

I was very excited when she responded to my query letter and synopsis and wanted to see ten pages in the body of an email. I was even more excited when she wanted me to send her 100 pages that I in ebullient bliss mailed to her. After a week she said that for a romance, the story had to begin with the heroine, not the hero as mine did.

Easy enough to change, since I had that version available. I changed it so it would be a little different than the norm. What do I know, I'm still trying to find an agent let alone have been published. I sent her the revision of the first couple of chapters.

Then she replied by saying that the writing wasn't strong enough. She made a suggestion as to where I should start the story. At this point, she still had not offered to represent me. Anxious to please, I googled to try and find out what strong writing actually meant. I found some suggestions and made changes that did improve the beginning of the story, but I was unwilling to cut out some of the story that I thought was important so I just let it go and didn't reply.

It seems to me that when she read the first 10 pages she should have said then that the writing wasn't strong enough and that the romance had to start with the heroine?????

The saga continues. After another month of sending query letters to other agents, without success, I sent Adele the query for my second book of the series. After all, she did say she liked the idea. Adele responded immediately wanting the first ten pages. Happily, I complied because this book had the elements that she said were needed.

The story is based on a sexy Special Forces Elite team. Five men and a sexy female sniper (CIA) but someone else does the dirty work because they all have integrity and valor. It's fiction after all, LOL. The story takes place in Houston and in the Gulf of Mexico. It's about terrorists trying to destroy our oil supply. I thought with Adele being a Texan and the climate is ripe with the gas prices so high it might be easy to sell.

She replied with, "It didn't get my interest as I hoped it might, sorry. Best of luck elsewhere."

I thought that was an insensitive, actually mean reply.

Next I tried to find her website which I should have done first and came up with this website instead. I think Adele may have some personal issues and just wants to mess with writer's heads. She doesn't seem to have a legitimate website of her own, and because others have had her ask for the entire manuscript without representation, I'm sure I'm right.


She pulls the same crap on everyone. Better just to move on. I doubt she is a real agent, anyway.

[Sandsurfgirl]

She's interested in my work but I read a very long negative thread about her on here. However the thread was started in 2005.

Has she improved at all? Is anyone out there represented by her? She has no client list or list of books published on Publisher's Marketplace.

I'm wondering if I should just pass and tell her no thank you instead of wasting the time and money to send my manuscript to her.

I guess I could ask her to send me her client list and books published.

Newbie here. What should I do?

[Momento Mori]

The last comment on the Barron's Literary Management Thread is from July 2010, at which point Adele (surprise surprise) still didn't have any sales.

Original thread is here: <snipped>

A mod will port your comment into it.

Essentially, if an agent doesn't have a published client list, doesn't have a list of books on Publisher's Marketplace then why are you bothering to query her? There's no such thing as a stealth agent and every agent worth their salt will have details of their sales available (even if it's just on a Google search).

Her responses on the thread were (IMO) less than professional.

Personally, I'd recommend you move on to someone more deserving of your time and effort.

MM

[DreamWeaver]

Would that be this thread? <snipped>
Hold onto your hat, we'll probably be merged with that one at some point. They like to keep things together, here.

[ETA: Beaten to it by MM!]

In answer to your question: Definitely ask for the list of client sales and books published (and by whom they are published). Then check those.

To be really blunt, I can count on the fingers of one foot the number of times I've seen a questionable agent/publisher make major changes and become amazing, over any length of time. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen, but there are myriad posts in BR&BC that start with "I've read bad things about this agent/publisher but they're all old posts...". It almost invariably turns out the old posts were right.

But, as I said, almost invariably. If you're interested, be sure you do your due diligence.

[waylander]

Leopards rarely change their spots and her reputation will have got around the publishing world

[Sandsurfgirl]

The last comment on the Barron's Literary Management Thread is from July 2010, at which point Adele (surprise surprise) still didn't have any sales.

Original thread is here: <snipped>

A mod will port your comment into it.

Essentially, if an agent doesn't have a published client list, doesn't have a list of books on Publisher's Marketplace then why are you bothering to query her? There's no such thing as a stealth agent and every agent worth their salt will have details of their sales available (even if it's just on a Google search).

Her responses on the thread were (IMO) less than professional.

Personally, I'd recommend you move on to someone more deserving of your time and effort.

MM


I blew it by querying her. I was multitasking and didn't look at how long she had been in business. Since I'm so new, I figure I can't rule out new agencies, but of course I want to make sure it's a good new agency. I assumed she was a new agent when she had so little info. Then I did my homework after the fact when she asked to see 20 pages and said Yikes! I sort of already knew the answers I would get here today but I'm one who wants to exhaust all options before making a decision, so I thought it couldn't hurt to ask just in case.

I will decline her request to see more of my work. It's not worth wasting anyone's time. She sounds a little "off."

Thanks so much for the responses. I will focus my attention elsewhere. A bad agent isn't going to do me any good.

[victoriastrauss]

A new agent may not yet have established a track record, but there should still be info you can obtain--most important, you need to know about the agent's work history. Agents have the best chance of success if they've previously worked in publishing or trained at another (reputable) agency. People who come to agenting without that kind of background are at a severe disadvantage, and rarely manage to make a go of it.

As a general rule of thumb, an agency that's going to be successful will start making sales within a year or so of starting up. Any longer suggests a lack of contacts and/or expertise (both essential--agenting is a skilled profession that's heavily dependent on networking).

Ms. Brooks has been in business since 2005, and there's no sign of any sales for her. Independent of anything else, that speaks for itself.

- Victoria

[Sandsurfgirl]

Well here's an update. Apparently it's the same leopard and the same spotty spots.

Since I queried her without checking first I figured I at least owed her a reply and a chance to share her sales and clients. I was hoping I would have some good news to report on this thread. Call me Polly Anna.

I sent her a polite email thanking her for her interest in my work. I said "While I prepare my manuscript to send you, I would love to see a list of your clients and work you have gotten published."

She responded that she is a small agency and that if I want a long list of sales I should look for a larger agency. She gave me no information that I asked for.

Then I said that it wasn't a long list of sales I wanted, but there was no information at all on her listing and generally agents share their leading clients and works they have gotten published.

She said that she didn't know what listing I was talking about. (It was Publisher's Marketplace.) She reiterated what she has said in the past that she is overrun with submissions from people who don't have "any talent" so she doesn't have very much published.

Oh well. I tried. It's unfortunate because she must spend a lot of time reviewing submissions.

[Momento Mori]

Sandsurfgirl:
She reiterated what she has said in the past that she is overrun with submissions from people who don't have "any talent" so she doesn't have very much published.

A bad workman blames her tools. She's been in business since 2005 so she should have sold something. The fact that she hasn't reinforces the suggestion that she's shit at her chosen job.

Sandsurfgirl:
It's unfortunate because she must spend a lot of time reviewing submissions.

A good agent knows within a page if a project has promise. The fact that Adele doesn't ...

MM

[Queen of Swords]

She reiterated what she has said in the past that she is overrun with submissions from people who don't have "any talent" so she doesn't have very much published.

I suppose good agencies only get submissions from writers with talent, and that's how they manage to sell books?

[Nick Blaze]

I almost want to query her just to see what ridiculous things she'd say, for amusement sake only.

[Sandsurfgirl]

The whole thing is sad and even a little bit pathetic. They say the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again thinking you'll get a different result right?

Does she even really try to get anything published? I can't imagine being in business that long with zero success and then keeping it going.

I learned my lesson this one that's for sure.

[Filigree]

In other industries, we look at fiscal performance like that (in business since 2005, and no real sales) and wonder if it's a money-laundering operation. But even Mafia laundromats have cash-flow. I know of several 'small agencies' that have been around since 2005, and have a verifiable sales record. Small can be mighty.

This sounds more like a vanity operation than anything else. She's not even on my radar.

Filigree

[Chicago Expat]

I already liked this site, but now that I'm making my first foray into the agent search in over ten years, I keep finding more reasons to appreciate AW. This BRBC subforum, especially.

Thank you, everyone, for taking the time to relate your experiences.