Can you look at chapter two? I want some opinions on this along with critiques.(1608)

Marian Perera · Dec 11, 2007

BlueLucario said:
Grammar first then story?

You have to walk before you can run. You have to master counting before you tackle fractions. Likewise, you need to have a good command of the technical details before you work on the story. I could discuss the plot and characterization and style, but that would only complicate matters. And I'd prefer you went slowly and mastered the technical stuff before we went into the creative part of the story.

EDIT: I already know the dialog punctuation. and I very well know how to spell and I know grammar, but the problem is you pointed out errors that I didn't see(not your fault).

If there are many errors that you don't see (but which we do), then your story can only benefit from your slowing down and being careful while editing. Whether the mistakes are due to inexperience with the craft or due to haste in posting the excerpt, it turns readers off. And it looks careless. Most critiquers aren't going to spend time on a piece if it looks as though the author didn't.

Good luck with improving your skills!

BlueLucario · Dec 11, 2007

Queen of Swords said:
You have to walk before you can run. You have to master counting before you tackle fractions. Likewise, you need to have a good command of the technical details before you work on the story. I could discuss the plot and characterization and style, but that would only complicate matters. And I'd prefer you went slowly and mastered the technical stuff before we went into the creative part of the story.

If there are many errors that you don't see (but which we do), then your story can only benefit from your slowing down and being careful while editing. Whether the mistakes are due to inexperience with the craft or due to haste in posting the excerpt, it turns readers off. And it looks careless. Most critiquers aren't going to spend time on a piece if it looks as though the author didn't.

Good luck with improving your skills!

don't worry, i'll slow down. You can tell me about the characterization and style, dont worry about complications.

BlueLucario · Dec 11, 2007

Queen of Swords said:
You have to walk before you can run. You have to master counting before you tackle fractions. Likewise, you need to have a good command of the technical details before you work on the story. I could discuss the plot and characterization and style, but that would only complicate matters. And I'd prefer you went slowly and mastered the technical stuff before we went into the creative part of the story.

If there are many errors that you don't see (but which we do), then your story can only benefit from your slowing down and being careful while editing. Whether the mistakes are due to inexperience with the craft or due to haste in posting the excerpt, it turns readers off. And it looks careless. Most critiquers aren't going to spend time on a piece if it looks as though the author didn't.

Good luck with improving your skills!

don't worry, i'll slow down. You can tell me about the characterization and style, dont worry about complications. I'll work a little harder and take my time. Just tell me about characterization. That is, if you have time.

BlueLucario · Dec 11, 2007

To Dempsey: You added periods at the end of dialogue tags. I thought you end tags with commas. Thanks a bunch for your help! and you too Queen of Hearts.

Marian Perera · Dec 11, 2007

BlueLucario said:
don't worry, i'll slow down. You can tell me about the characterization and style, dont worry about complications. I'll work a little harder and take my time. Just tell me about characterization. That is, if you have time.

It's not a question of time, Blue. It's a question of pacing ourselves appropriately - us meaning you and me and everyone else. Right now, I don't think it would be a good idea to work on characterization, because that would be rushing things. If you're still learning about when to use periods and when to use commas, then I'd rather you mastered this and felt confident with it before we went into the creative stuff.

Because if you thought grammar and spelling were difficult, characterization and style will seem twice as tough.

BlueLucario · Dec 11, 2007

Queen of Swords said:
It's not a question of time, Blue. It's a question of pacing ourselves appropriately - us meaning you and me and everyone else. Right now, I don't think it would be a good idea to work on characterization, because that would be rushing things. If you're still learning about when to use periods and when to use commas, then I'd rather you mastered this and felt confident with it before we went into the creative stuff.

Because if you thought grammar and spelling were difficult, characterization and style will seem twice as tough.

I already know how to use periods and commas. I know grammar. I don't mean to argue, and dont worry about characterization I've been through worse. ^_^

Marian Perera · Dec 11, 2007

BlueLucario said:
I already know how to use periods and commas. I know grammar.

That's great. It means all you have to do is work on using them consistently and accurately in your story. Once you've mastered that, then we can move on to the next step.

No rushing. You can ask until you turn Blue.

But I still maintain that you'll be better off taking this slowly and applying your knowledge of the technical details before working on characterization. You see, right now it's not clear from your story that you know how to use grammar and punctuation. Once it's clear from your work that you know this, I'll be happy to go over characterization and style.

BlueLucario · Dec 11, 2007

Queen of Swords said:
That's great. It means all you have to do is work on using them consistently and accurately in your story. Once you've mastered that, then we can move on to the next step.

No rushing. You can ask until you turn Blue. But I still maintain that you'll be better off taking this slowly and applying your knowledge of the technical details before working on characterization. You see, right now it's not clear from your story that you know how to use grammar and punctuation. Once it's clear from your work that you know this, I'll be happy to go over characterization and style.

Like you guys said. I was rushing throughout and I didn't see errors when I revise. Look at how I'm typing now! You said take things slowly, which is what I'm doing.

EDIT: I have a question, what else is the problem besides the grammar? What's the problem with my characters?

geardrops · Dec 11, 2007

BlueLucario said:
I know grammar.

I wrote a lot of bold text that proves you wrong.

BlueLucario said:
To Dempsey: You added periods at the end of dialogue tags. I thought you end tags with commas. Thanks a bunch for your help!

Sentences have to end.

"I'm saying something."

See the period? Because the sentence ended.

"I'm saying something. And now I'm saying something else."

Period. Two sentences.

Now say I have to put the tag in to show who's speaking.

"I'm saying something," she said. "And now I'm saying something else."

Just because you're putting a tag in there doesn't mean the sentence doesn't end.

BlueLucario · Dec 11, 2007

dempsey said:
I wrote a lot of bold text that proves you wrong.

and thanks for that, no need to prove me wrong. I DID ask you to point it out for me, because I failed to see it.

FennelGiraffe · Dec 11, 2007

BlueLucario said:
To Dempsey: You added periods at the end of dialogue tags. I thought you end tags with commas.

It depends on whether the dialog comes before or after the tag. Notice that the quoted dialog starts with a capital letter either way, but "he" is not capitalized when the tag comes after the dialog.

He said, "Blah blah blah."
"Blah,blah,blah," he said.

When you have dialog on both sides of the tag, it depends on whether the quoted dialog is one sentence split apart, or whether it's two separate sentences. Pay attention to which words are capitalized and which aren't. (Of course, "I" would be capitalized no matter what.)

"I think," she said, "he means it."
(I think he means it. is one sentence.)
"I like red flowers," she said. "He likes blue."
(I like red flowers. He likes blue. is two sentences.)

BlueLucario said:
I already know how to use periods and commas. I know grammar.

We can see the grammatical errors. There are two possible explanations for them:

Either

You don't know grammar as well as you think you do.

or

You are being disrespectful to everyone here by not making the effort to clean it up.

So which is it? Are you rude, or do you need to study grammar a little more?

BlueLucario · Dec 11, 2007

FennelGiraffe said:
We can see the grammatical errors. There are two possible explanations for them:

Either
You don't know grammar as well as you think you do.

or
You are being disrespectful to everyone here by not making the effort to clean it up.

So which is it? Are you rude, or do you need to study grammar a little more?

I'm not being rude. I'm sorry if you see me this way. Just because you see grammar errors doesnt mean I don't know them. Like I said they are careless mistakes and I will fix them later.

Bubastes · Dec 11, 2007

BlueLucario said:
I'm not being rude. I'm sorry if you see me this way. Just because you see grammar errors doesnt mean I don't know them. Like I said they are careless mistakes and I will fix them later.

Here's the thing: you cannot afford to be careless when it comes to showing your work. When you prepare something for critique, you need to make it the best you can possibly make it before posting it. That way, any critiques you do receive will stretch you your current "best" and make your writing even better.

If you hope to be published, you really can't afford careless mistakes. You don't get a "later" when you submit for publication.

Remember that you reinforce the habits you practice. If you practice being careless, you will reinforce that carelessness. So don't do it!

BlueLucario · Dec 11, 2007

MeowGirl said:
Here's the thing: you cannot afford to be careless when it comes to showing your work. When you prepare something for critique, you need to make it the best you can possibly make it before posting it. That way, any critiques you do receive will stretch you your current "best" and make your writing even better.

If you hope to be published, you really can't afford careless mistakes. You don't get a "later" when you submit for publication.

Remember that you reinforce the habits you practice. If you practice being careless, you will reinforce that carelessness. So don't do it!

I'll be careful next time. Is there anything besides grammar that's an issue? No I don't think I'll be published if the chances of acceptance are low.

geardrops · Dec 11, 2007

BlueLucario said:
Is there anything besides grammar that's an issue?

Yes. But I'm not going into it until you present something that is grammatically correct.

Call me a jerk. You don't get pro overnight. Basics first. If you can't get a good foundation, you can't build.

Bubastes · Dec 11, 2007

Just take baby steps and focus on one thing at a time. First, work on grammar and punctuation until doing it correctly is as automatic as breathing. Worry about the rest later. The time will come. Have patience!

BlueLucario · Dec 11, 2007

I told you I already know grammar and punctuation -.-. Can I revise this piece again to prove it to you? I know where to put the periods and commas and apostrophe etc. I know! I've been knowing this since 3rd grade.

Linda Adams · Dec 11, 2007

Like I said they are careless mistakes and I will fix them later.

Are you aware that by being careless, you are actually making MORE work for yourself? It's going to be extremely painful if you have to go through 400 pages of manuscript just to add periods at the end of sentences and hunt down comma problems. Not only that, you'll probably have to go over multiple times just to weed all of the problems out. Why add more work for yourself when it's so easy to correct? If you get the grammar reasonably correct as you write you don't have to fix careless mistakes later.

BlueLucario · Dec 11, 2007

Linda Adams said:
Are you aware that by being careless, you are actually making MORE work for yourself? If you get the grammar reasonably correct as you write you don't have to fix careless mistakes later.

You're right. but I just kept writing without paying attention. Everytime I'm so close to an exciting plot, I just go for it. Not bothering to pay attention to what I write.

By the way, is writing sentences properly part of grammar? I can't do that even if you shove a book down my throat. I can't speak properly, and it's probably the same. If this counts as a grammar problem then I see.

I'm sorry I can't even speak right, and I am not a normal person.

Linda Adams · Dec 11, 2007

BlueLucario said:
You're right. but I just kept writing without paying attention. Everytime I'm so close to an exciting plot, I just go for it. Not bothering to pay attention to what I write.

If it's an inspiring plot, it'll stick with you whether you write fast or slow. If you forget something because you didn't get to, so what? You'll come up with something better or different. There's no need to race through writing at the expense of the story.

BlueLucario said:
By the way, is writing sentences properly part of grammar? I can't do that even if you shove a book down my throat. I can't speak properly, and it's probably the same. If this counts as a grammar problem then I see.

Writing sentences properly is a part of writing and grammar. It's part of how to make your story understood and to communicate a message.

This site might help with some of the grammar: http://www.newsroom101.com/ It has a lot of repetitive exercises to work the grammar muscles.

By the way, Vince Flynn is dyslexic. He's also a best selling writer. Don't sell yourself short. You just have to work harder at it.

FennelGiraffe · Dec 11, 2007

BlueLucario said:
You're right. but I just kept writing without paying attention. Everytime I'm so close to an exciting plot, I just go for it. Not bothering to pay attention to what I write.

A lot of us write a first draft by letting the inspiration flow without worrying much about the words. But we don't ask people to critique those first drafts. We clean them up first.

As it happens, I have a mild motor skill deficiency. It's not much, but I typo probably three words out of every five. Do you see any typos in this comment? Do you see typos in any of my comments at AW? No, you don't. I put in the effort to find and correct them before I hit Submit. (I'm sure I miss one now and then--no one is perfect--but not very often.)

Why do I bother? Why not just submit my comments 'as is'? Because I don't want to present myself as being sloppy and careless. Because I don't want to present myself as not caring how hard others have to work to figure out what I mean. Because doing that would be rude.

Marian Perera · Dec 12, 2007

BlueLucario said:
I told you I already know grammar and punctuation -.-. Can I revise this piece again to prove it to you? I know where to put the periods and commas and apostrophe etc. I know! I've been knowing this since 3rd grade.

There isn't much point in continually saying that you know grammar and punctuation and then submitting excerpts filled with errors. I can tell that you're trying to keep mistakes out of your posts here, but whether you can do the same with your story is another issue. The numerous mistakes with grammar and punctuation in your story are not small things which you can correct later after you rush on to characterization and style. They are indications that the foundation needs work, and they interfere with a reader's enjoyment of the story.

If you know grammar and punctuation, before you post another excerpt, go through it carefully and correct every technical error. As dempsey said, once you show that you can do this, then more in-depth critiques can be done.

BlueLucario · Dec 12, 2007

FennelGiraffe said:
A lot of us write a first draft by letting the inspiration flow without worrying much about the words. But we don't ask people to critique those first drafts. We clean them up first.

As it happens, I have a mild motor skill deficiency. It's not much, but I typo probably three words out of every five. Do you see any typos in this comment? Do you see typos in any of my comments at AW? No, you don't. I put in the effort to find and correct them before I hit Submit. (I'm sure I miss one now and then--no one is perfect--but not very often.)

Why do I bother? Why not just submit my comments 'as is'? Because I don't want to present myself as being sloppy and careless. Because I don't want to present myself as not caring how hard others have to work to figure out what I mean. Because doing that would be rude.

Oh, I see. You take that much time, into correcting your errors before you post a reply. Me? I just say what I gotta say then press submit. Anyways, I just gotta submit a final draft right, does that mean it has to be finished?

Marian Perera · Dec 12, 2007

BlueLucario said:
Oh, I see. You take that much time, into correcting your errors before you post a reply. Me? I just say what I gotta say then press submit.

Many people here have told you why your approach is not a good idea. Do you still intend to post whatever you have written without checking for mistakes? That is a way to ensure that few people will read your work and even fewer will critique it.

Anyways, I just gotta submit a final draft right, does that mean it has to be finished?

It has to be as error-free as possible. There is no point in saying "I know grammar, I know punctuation" and then posting something that's filled with technical errors.

Bubastes · Dec 12, 2007

BlueLucario said:
Oh, I see. You take that much time, into correcting your errors before you post a reply. Me? I just say what I gotta say then press submit. Anyways, I just gotta submit a final draft right, does that mean it has to be finished?

Ditto to what everyone else has already said. Also, the errors in your posts indicate that grammar and punctuation aren't automatic for you yet. Like I said earlier, it should be like breathing -- when it's that automatic, your first drafts will contain fewer technical errors. If you want people to invest time reading your stuff, you should respect them enough to invest time polishing it.

Your draft doesn't have to be finished, but it should be as finished as you can make it. Otherwise, the critiques won't be helpful to either you or the critiquer.

Can you look at chapter two? I want some opinions on this along with critiques.(1608)

starting over

Blood Elves FTW

Blood Elves FTW

Blood Elves FTW

starting over

Blood Elves FTW

starting over

Blood Elves FTW

Good thing I like my day job

Blood Elves FTW

It's green they say

Blood Elves FTW

bananaed

Blood Elves FTW

Good thing I like my day job

bananaed

Blood Elves FTW

Soldier, Storyteller

Blood Elves FTW

Soldier, Storyteller

It's green they say

starting over

Blood Elves FTW

starting over

bananaed