QUESTIONING WRITER STYLE

[CACTUSWENDY]

IT’S TRUE WE EACH HAVE OUR ‘OWN’ STYLE OF EXPRESSING OURSELVES BECAUSE WE ARE ALL MADE FROM DIFFERENT INPUTS FROM LIFE. BUT I HAVE A QUESTION (as usual) AND I KNOW THIS IS THE BEST PLACE TO GET IT ANSWERED.

I AM WRITING A CRIME NOVEL NOW AND I HAVE NOTICED THAT I TEND TO BE A ‘TO THE POINT’ TYPE OF WRITER. I DON’T ENJOY LOTS OF ‘FLOWERY’ WORDS IN THE THINGS I READ. I LIKE TO GET TO THE POINT AND TELL THE STORY. MAYBE IT’S THE FAST ‘TIMES’ WE LIVE IN THAT DRAWS ME THIS WAY.

MANY TIMES I HAVE STOPPED READING A BOOK BECAUSE I CAN’T SEE THE STORY FOR THE FLOWERS. JUDGING FROM A LOT OF PAPERBACKS THAT I HAVE AROUND THE HOUSE I DON’T SEE ANY WITH ‘MY STYLE’.

THAT LEAVES ME WITH TWO THOUGHTS. 1. NO ONE READS ‘FAST’ STORIES SO THERE IS NO MARKET FOR IT. 2. I CAN’T REALLY BE CONSIDERED A SERIOUS WRITER IF I DON’T WRITE IN THE STYLE OR MODE THAT SELLS.

I UNDERSTAND AND ADMIRE THOSE THAT WRITE FAN/SCI FI……BECAUSE YOU HAVE WHOLE NEW WORLDS TO DEVELOP. MY STORY IS ABOUT EVERYDAY PEOPLE THAT HAVE BAD THINGS HAPPEN AROUND THEM.

WHEN I READ THE POSTS ON THIS SITE THAT ‘SPEAK’ WITH SUCH ELOQUENCE I KNOW THEY ARE TRUE WRITERS AND I HAVE A GREAT DEAL OF RESPECT FOR THEM.

I GUESS I SAID ALL THAT TO ASK THIS…..ARE THERE NOVELS OR MARKETS OUT THERE WITH ‘MY STYLE’ OR AM I WASTING MY TIME? THERE ARE SOOOOOO MANY GOOD WRITERS IN THIS PLACE. I WILL RESPECT YOUR THOUGHTS.

THANKS AHEAD OF TIME FOR ANY INSIGHT YOU MIGHT WANT TO SHARE.

[BradyH1861]

WHEN I READ THE POSTS ON THIS SITE THAT ‘SPEAK’ WITH SUCH ELOQUENCE I KNOW THEY ARE TRUE WRITERS AND I HAVE A GREAT DEAL OF RESPECT FOR THEM.



You are definitely not talking about any of my posts! ;)

Anyway, I think there are plenty of books out there that have a more "to the point" approach than others. Of course, I freely confess my ignorance of most topics of discussion. That said, I have read quite a few books that do not involve "flowery" language. I would have to say go with what your instinct tells you is right for what you are working on.

FYI...I tend to have a more direct style myself. Probably because that is how my personality is. Just my opinion, of course, like everything else I say.

Hope my .08 cents worth helped.

Brady H.

[Trapped in amber]

I seem to have a fairly direct style as well. I find that this can make my work too fast paced, and I have to go back and slow things down. I don't think there's anything wrong with that, as long as you're writing well.

[SRHowen]

I get mixed opinions of my work, some people hate it, others say need more description others love my descriptions.

You can only write in your own style. It may take you some time to find your own style, but trying to copy someone else's won't make yu happy or won't help you find your own audience either.

Shawn

[BradyH1861]

This has nothing to do with the topic, but Shawn, I like your quote thing. Was Chief Joseph also the one who said "From where the sun now stands in the sky, I will fight no more forever"?? (or words to that affect)


Brady H.

[reph]

Cactuswendy, would you please do my tired brain a favor and not type posts in all caps? They're too hard to read.

[gp101]

C-Wen:

I prefer reading those "bare-bones" novels without the flowery stuff. Try one of Elmore Leonard's novels. I don't know if crime is your genre, but he continues to write page-turners and somehow puts the reader in the setting with minimal description. Matter of fact, try BE COOL, since it's about to be released as a movie in March.

If you're more into the literary genre, you can't go wrong with Hemmingway.

[three seven]

Wendy, I'm writing a crime novel and keep using flowery words. I posted a bit in SYW and everyone kicked the s**t out of me for it.
If you're writing a hard-boiled no-nonsense crime story, I'd go ahead and write it in a hard-boiled, no-nonsense style.

And more to the point, if that's your style then don't try and change it. The minute you start doing something that doesn't come naturally, you're writing someone else's story.

[Nateskate]

This is one of those "Salt to taste" issues. It really depends on what you mean by being straightforward and to the point, and without seeing a sample, it would be hard to judge.

I prefer stories that get to the point, but I guess there's a point of diminishing returns. If it has no descriptive narrative, then it can become bland.

In my mind, more stories tend to lean into the "too much" category, instead of the "not enough" category. But perhaps that's because the industry itself is biased in that direction???

We've also discussed the pros and cons of for lack using too many unfamiliar words and terms. And this is like that.

My general guess is that you'd benefit from a sampling of opinions from qualified people who've read your story. They can give you a better idea if it needs a little more spice, or if it's just right.

[katdad]

Within the mystery genre there is plenty of room for variation of styles.

Look at the Robert Parker "Spenser" books -- top notch, big sellers, and relatively sparse in style.

Other successful mystery writers are more flowery (although the term 'flowery' is tinged with a negative bias).

If you write a good story, you'll be okay.

And CactusGal, don't forget you were gonna email me a couple of sample chapters...

[Jamesaritchie]

IT’S TRUE WE EACH HAVE OUR ‘OWN’ STYLE OF EXPRESSING OURSELVES BECAUSE WE ARE ALL MADE FROM DIFFERENT INPUTS FROM LIFE. BUT I HAVE A QUESTION (as usual) AND I KNOW THIS IS THE BEST PLACE TO GET IT ANSWERED.

I AM WRITING A CRIME NOVEL NOW AND I HAVE NOTICED THAT I TEND TO BE A ‘TO THE POINT’ TYPE OF WRITER. I DON’T ENJOY LOTS OF ‘FLOWERY’ WORDS IN THE THINGS I READ. I LIKE TO GET TO THE POINT AND TELL THE STORY. MAYBE IT’S THE FAST ‘TIMES’ WE LIVE IN THAT DRAWS ME THIS WAY.

MANY TIMES I HAVE STOPPED READING A BOOK BECAUSE I CAN’T SEE THE STORY FOR THE FLOWERS. JUDGING FROM A LOT OF PAPERBACKS THAT I HAVE AROUND THE HOUSE I DON’T SEE ANY WITH ‘MY STYLE’.

THAT LEAVES ME WITH TWO THOUGHTS. 1. NO ONE READS ‘FAST’ STORIES SO THERE IS NO MARKET FOR IT. 2. I CAN’T REALLY BE CONSIDERED A SERIOUS WRITER IF I DON’T WRITE IN THE STYLE OR MODE THAT SELLS.

I UNDERSTAND AND ADMIRE THOSE THAT WRITE FAN/SCI FI……BECAUSE YOU HAVE WHOLE NEW WORLDS TO DEVELOP. MY STORY IS ABOUT EVERYDAY PEOPLE THAT HAVE BAD THINGS HAPPEN AROUND THEM.

WHEN I READ THE POSTS ON THIS SITE THAT ‘SPEAK’ WITH SUCH ELOQUENCE I KNOW THEY ARE TRUE WRITERS AND I HAVE A GREAT DEAL OF RESPECT FOR THEM.

I GUESS I SAID ALL THAT TO ASK THIS…..ARE THERE NOVELS OR MARKETS OUT THERE WITH ‘MY STYLE’ OR AM I WASTING MY TIME? THERE ARE SOOOOOO MANY GOOD WRITERS IN THIS PLACE. I WILL RESPECT YOUR THOUGHTS.

THANKS AHEAD OF TIME FOR ANY INSIGHT YOU MIGHT WANT TO SHARE.

I believe story, characterization, and dialogue are much more important than style. It also depends on what you mean by "flowery."

I also write a lot in the mystery field, and I can't recall reading a crime novel I'd call flowery. Many are written in a pretty sparse manner.

THere are styles that are pretty much unreadable, but it isn't because they're flowery, it's because they just aren't good writing. Writing that is too choppy, too "see spot run" simple, etc., will almost certainly be rejected. So will writing that goes too far the other way and gets too purple.

I guess I'd ask how your style compares to that of writers you really enjoy reading?

[AncientEagle]

Brady - you are correct. That was Chief Joseph. After his Nez Perce had fought a running battle against overwhelming force for some 1400 miles, he said to the tribal war leaders:

"I am tired of fighting. Our chiefs are killed. Looking Glass is dead. Toohoolhoolzote is dead. The old men are all dead. It is the young men who say, "Yes" or "No." He who led the young men is dead. It is cold, and we have no blankets. The little children are freezing to death. My people, they are perhaps freezing to death. I want to have time to look for my children., and see how many of them I can find. Maybe I shall find them amont the dead. Hear me, my chiefs! I am tired. My heart is sick and sad. From where the sun now stands, I will fight no more forever."

Apologies for the long quote, but it has given me goose bumps for many years.

After Joseph surrendered, naturally we reneged on what he thought we had promised him.

[CACTUSWENDY]

:Wha: ...WOW.......

[Denis Castellan]

Nez Perce ? As in "Nez Percé", French for "Pierced Nose" ?

I didn't know Indians had french names that are used even in US.

[maestrowork]

I don't think I write floweriy. In fact, sometimes I'm accused of writing too tersely... but I do describe things in "lyrical" ways instead of poetic... if that makes sense. E.g.:

I climb over the gate and trot up the steps, passing under the lintel and through a tunnel of ivy. Yellow angel’s trumpets flop here and there, decayed petals ground into the stones beneath my shoes, their scent pungent as perfumed hair on a sultry day in the summer. Almost nauseating.
...

Above the incline perches a cottage with a green tiled roof, red bricks peeking through plastered walls, under an eminent camphor tree the shape of an old man hugging the sky. It’s simple architecture—humble, bland even. The vista, however, is magnificent. Set on a lush tract of meadow at the edge of a cliff, the cottage overlooks the broad sea: a glistening, rolling sheet of blue silk. To the left, a few roofs peek through the trees at the top of a hill, which drops abruptly and tapers into the desolate cove below.

[Anatole Ghio]

Hey -

I haven't read the original post, but I believe it has something to do with too much description turning off some readers? Everyone has their own style, but some forms of writing will inherently appeal to more readers than others. If you get the sense from others remarks that you are writing in a style not favored by a majority, you'll either have to change your style so that more people will have an easier time with it, or else stick to your guns and take a smaller readership.

Speaking of which, I didn't read the original post because IT WAS ALL IN CAPS. I CAN'T READ ALL CAPS, IT JUST BUGS THE HELL OUT OF ME. WHENEVER I SEE ANYTHING ALL IN CAPS, I AUTOMATICALLY SKIP IT.

I know I'm not the only one who feels that way, so I guess this post is not only a lesson in publication readership vs style, but posting readership vs style.

- Anatole

[AncientEagle]

[QUOTE]As in "Nez Perce", French for "Pierced Nose"?

Yes, that's their name. Sorry I left the accent mark off Perce'. Famous tribe in northwestern U.S.

[James D. Macdonald]

Style is what you can't help doing.

[jdkiggins]

THAT LEAVES ME WITH TWO THOUGHTS. 1. NO ONE READS ‘FAST’ STORIES SO THERE IS NO MARKET FOR IT. 2. I CAN’T REALLY BE CONSIDERED A SERIOUS WRITER IF I DON’T WRITE IN THE STYLE OR MODE THAT SELLS.


Wendy,

I wouldn't sell yourself short. By "flowery" do you mean a lot of description? Keep in mind that sometimes, especially in crime scenes, there must be a great description so the reader can visualize the events. I like fast-paced, get-to-the-point reading, especially in crime stories.

There are several writers who don't "flower-up" stories. Patricia Cornwell comes to mind. She's an excellent writer and doesn't use a lot of flowery descriptive wording; she sometimes smacks the reader right upside the head with her descriptions of crime scenes and her experience at Quantico comes through like blood splatter on a wall.

Don't give up looking for your niche. I'm sure you'll run across a crime writer who is close to your style. When you do, write down that publishing house name, because that will be where you want to send your manuscripts. :)

Joanne

[SRHowen]

Most tribes are not named what they called themselves. They got named most often what other tribes called them, or by a descriptive name some European group decided identified them. Most tribes names for themselves mean literally The People, in one form or another.

Shawn

[Mistook]

Shawn, that's fascinating!


I've been doing a lot of gang research lately, and in my area, they divide themselves into two leagues of allies. One side call themselves, "Folks" and the other side call themselves "People".

[Lel513]

I've had alot of thoughts about my writing not being descriptive enough. I tend to write very simply and not add alot of the so-called flowery language. I think for crime novels it is fine but I am trying to write literary stories and that market seems to eat up the flowery language. There seems to be an overload nowadays of John Updike clones who write very, very descriptive stories that use very lush language. I try to focus more on the actual story and have that be interesting. I think if the story is interesting and written in a readable manner people will like it. Yet sometimes I think many magazines and publishers care more about language rather than the actual story being told. I hope that isn't true though.

[oswann]

It just takes the perfect word slotted perfectly. I'm with Jamesaritchie in the sparse dept. One line that gives you goosebumps.


Os.

[CACTUSWENDY]

:gone:......It has come to my attention.....lol.....that my type is causing some problems......i ususally type my questions on my word program and then copy and paste them here....and they don't come out the same....not much space and boxier letters...sorry.....Reph....and Anatole Ghio....and any others that may have have a problem reading my posts....i am sorry....(someone even gave me a red bad mark for it....sigh....)...I am a pretty nice person and if there is ever anything i say or do that might be a problem....please feel free to mess. me or write it right here in the sites....thanks again for your readership....and remember....I love you guys........:thankyou:

[oswann]

Also, might I add, that I too have accepted after a long period of lurking to come out as it were based on the fact that this is a beautifully civil board with great advice and personalities. Probably not the place to post this but CACTUSWENDY's response inspired a little postive recognition.


Os.

[Jamesaritchie]

I've had alot of thoughts about my writing not being descriptive enough. I tend to write very simply and not add alot of the so-called flowery language. I think for crime novels it is fine but I am trying to write literary stories and that market seems to eat up the flowery language. There seems to be an overload nowadays of John Updike clones who write very, very descriptive stories that use very lush language. I try to focus more on the actual story and have that be interesting. I think if the story is interesting and written in a readable manner people will like it. Yet sometimes I think many magazines and publishers care more about language rather than the actual story being told. I hope that isn't true though.

Interesting. I've never thought of Updike as a flowery in any way, nor an overly descriptive writer. His writing strikes me as fairly straightforward and simple. It's just good use of langauge. But not flowery.

As for magazine editors, from my experience, I'd say they want it all: good story, good characterization, good dialogue, and good use of language. All things being equal, how the writer uses language is very important, particularly in short stories. All the pieces have to be in place, including use of language.