do you do a barebones first draft or a solid first draft?

[preyer]

i touched on this in another thread, thought i'd get some opinions if anyone is interested in disclosing the drawbacks and merits of each method.

[larocca]

I've gone both ways.

No, wait, THAT'S not what I mean!

It's all well and good to learn about what works for other authors, but in the end you have to learn what works for you. It is different for everybody. If we all wrote the same way, there wouldn't be so many of us, because there'd be no need.

I think I tend to do a solid first draft, but I have done bare bones first drafts as well. The book, its characters, and my mood tell me what to do. I listen.

Why do you ask?

[qdsb]

I should probably hold off on responding until I actually COMPLETE a draft.

But so far I've been trying to write a "solid" first draft, even though I know I may have to make massive revisions later.

I've tried writing barebones. Just for me personally, the barebones approach kills my spirit. The next time I open the document to write, seeing all that "shoddy" work makes me doubt myself. So, just in my case, I prefer to try to write as close to the "finished" version as I can...dwelling on word choice, on dialogue, on characterization and setting, etc, etc., even though I know I'll likely change it. I try to write as well as possible at all times.

I don't know that this would help anyone else...but...you asked. :)

[PeeDee]

My first draft is my most solid draft. After that, I just add/subtract a few (very few) scenes and tighten things up and polish. All my work goes into the first draft. Usually, all the work is done in my head, too. I don't write and re-write pages in the first draft, or anything.

[JasonChirevas]

My first draft is my most solid draft. After that, I just add/subtract a few (very few) scenes and tighten things up and polish. All my work goes into the first draft. Usually, all the work is done in my head, too. I don't write and re-write pages in the first draft, or anything.

Same here. I make the first draft and good as I can make it. Then I make it better. I never write capriciously just to get something down.

-Jason

[PeeDee]

Same here. I make the first draft and good as I can make it. Then I make it better. I never write capriciously just to get something down.

-Jason

Not only don't I do that, but I'm not capable of it.

[Shady Lane]

It feels solid while I'm writing it, but my first drafts are always much too short and have to be significantly expanded later on. So it the big scheme of things...they're bare bones.

[scarletpeaches]

I used to spend ages on my first drafts, making them as solid as possible - so I thought. Turns out they were crap. Then I gave myself permission to write baggy, messy first drafts and nowadays they're better than my angsty, tortuous works from years ago. I wouldn't say that's a reflection of 'loose' first drafts having the advantage - just that my writing has improved so even my slapdash works these days are better than the older pieces I took ages to complete, as a teenager.

[Devil Ledbetter]

Solid. But when I write an individual scene I usually start with bare bones, which for me is mostly dialog and action. After that, I added the add the details that bring whole scene to life.

[WendyNYC]

This is my first novel, but I'm writing barebones, then beefing it up after I complete a chapter. It's easier for me to judge pace this way. Plus it gives me time to get the plot out, then go back and add nifty, texture-rich nouns and verbs without going off on a description tangent. My dialogue is the only thing that runs long (looooong) and I have to cut.


Oddly enough, I don't write short stories this way. Huh. Wonder why.

[MidnightMuse]

I'm a first-drafter. The first go-round has to be the best it can be, otherwise I'd get frustrated and bored and probably just put it away and start another one. I use the second draft as just an editing draft - add some minor bits, polish a few badly read paragraphs or find excessive dialogue tags, etc.

I've never been capable of slapping in filler so I could move on, or skipping parts. I can't skip anything - I'll even get hung up on a name or way to describe an object. Until I can get it, I can't step around it.

[PeeDee]

Gee, Muse, I wish we had talked about this at some other time (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81256&page=18), it's so interesting!

:D

[jst5150]

My first novel was solid. So was my second. My NaNoWriMo piece will be very loose.

Hey, I'm flexible.

[rwam]

Well, I thought my first draft was solid. Then during the next 8 drafts, I realized it wasn't. Same will probably hold true with my current wip.

I think the trick is to make it as good as you can without letting it slow you down. Like one of my drinking pals once told me - focus on getting the vomit out....you can go back and take care of the chunks later.

[Teige Benson]

Solid. But when I write an individual scene I usually start with bare bones, which for me is mostly dialog and action. After that, I added the add the details that bring whole scene to life.

I tend to write this way as well.

My first draft is usually a solid piece of writing when it comes to action, dialogue and narration. My second draft is where I go back and fill in setting and description.

[Nateskate]

i touched on this in another thread, thought i'd get some opinions if anyone is interested in disclosing the drawbacks and merits of each method.


When I get an idea it just explodes, and then I try to keep the momentum. Then when I go back it may look poorly written, and sometimes downright pathetic. However, I've found that the initial inspiration is often the most powerful. And so, although my story looks nothing at all like the first draft, that first draft is still the skeleton for the entire series, though a reader wouldn't recognize they were written by the same person.

It's kind of like when I wrote songs, and many songwriters will tell you this, if you get a song idea and don't put it down right away, you'll lose it.

The only time I'd write sketches was if I was at work or out somewhere and had an idea, and simply wanted to remind myself what to add to the story.

[Roger J Carlson]

I have 3 drafts before my First Draft:

Storyboard is a narrative saying what is going to happen in the chapter
Rough is where I actually write the story, but concentrate on action and dialog.
Draft is where I add description.

Then comes First Draft and that's where I look for passive verbs and phrases, remove extra adverbs, look for too many prepositional phrases in a row, remove extra exposition, and generally clean the thing up.

I don't know why I work this way, but it works for me. Often, however, the line between them blurs. Sometimes, if I'm on a roll, my Rough version will turn into my Draft version.

[III]

For me it really depends on the scene or chapter. If it's a pretty straightforward scene with nothing but diaglogue or action I'll do a very solid first draft and touch it up in later revisions. If it's a heavy scene with lots of character or plot development I'll usually cherry-pick and write the most salient parts in solid snippets, not worrying about the supporting structure so I can make sure I hit the emotional and intellectual point I'm trying to hit, then I'll spend hours going back and weaving the web of story around those gems.

[Stew21]

The first draft is rather solid, but needs to be expanded in second draft. I leave placeholders with telling in first draft (not every part, just some of them - so I can get through them more quickly and don't lose my momentum) that are used to mark the spots I need to "show" what's happening. So the length I add is in those places. the whole story is there, the plot is complete, the scenes just need a pillow-fluffing to be full and done.
Third time through is little stuff like making sure I'm using the strongest verb, sentence structure, adding pieces earlier so the pieces later have a context.
I'm currently almost done with the replace tell placeholders with show phase.

[johnnysannie]

i touched on this in another thread, thought i'd get some opinions if anyone is interested in disclosing the drawbacks and merits of each method.

Funny you should ask - I just got home from doing a program on writing for the local middle school and one of my "props" (I do this program at different schools each year) is a skeleton to demonstate the "bare bones" of writing and how I flesh out each piece!!!!

THe kids loved Boney - he's a cute Halloween skeleton when he's not working as a prop!

[Prawn]

no. my first drafts are 85-90K, my completed versions are 90-95K

[Toothpaste]

I just can't write any other way then how (at the time) I think the story would read. I mean I do sometimes jump around, write a bit that's later on and then return, but my first draft is basically the novel. Then I go back and futz a bit with it, sometimes the logic isn't quite so logical, or there are loop holes ( I am so sick of loop holes). But really it pretty much is as is.

[Wraith]

I don't consciously choose either. In rewrites I don't take out/put in as much as replace - cause I have a knack for getting things wrong.

But I do try to make everything sound the best I can at the moment, and write the scenes as I see them. But sometimes when I need to regain the flow I allow myself to write crappy fillers too. So my wip's a mixture of scenes I love and scenes I hate with very little in between.

Makes for a headache-inflicting rewrite, I can tell ya.

[RLSMiller]

I'm with the solideers. Unless I'm having a mental block about a particular scene, I generally write as well and completely as I can, so by the time I'm done with the first draft I can just two a quick edit instead of a total redraft. Edits for me are usually just making sure descriptions work, sentences flow and there are no unconscious repetitions of words in close proximity. I work out all the plot kinks in my outlines. I don't think I'd do well with a bare bones draft. I like being able to look back at my last page and actually read it as if it were a proper novel. It spurs me on in a way.

[ishtar'sgate]

i touched on this in another thread, thought i'd get some opinions if anyone is interested in disclosing the drawbacks and merits of each method.
Barebones would be like an outline and I don't outline. I write the best first draft I can write mostly because I can't write any other way and then be satisfied with my work at the end of the day.
Linnea

[Spiny Norman]

Solid. I want each scene to be fleshed out and flowing before I go on.

Vonnegut used to retype every page of his book until he was positive it was perfect. He'd rent a motel room, sit down, and just write and write and write until it was ready to send to the editor. He was usually in a nest of crumpled paper by the end.

[willietheshakes]

I write a solid first draft, but I think I mean the word in a somewhat different manner than many of you guys.

I mean it in a rock-solid, large lump of marble kind of way.

You know, like Michelangelo. First I have to create the big block of marble, then I have to cut away all the stuff that isn't a finished work...

[LilliCray]

My natural style is minimalistic. So far in the [*coughonecough*] draft[s] I've edited over the course of my writing... careerish... thingy... I've been able to add most of the details that make a story click.

I would prefer writing solid first drafts, but that would take an awful lot of work for something easier-for me-fixed later.

[preyer]

larocca, the reason i asked is because i've seen advice saying, 'just write it down to get through it, then you can go back and add to it,' (paraphrased). i don't like this even as general advice because i think it's a bad writing habit to get into if you can avoid it and most of us already have enough to learn and, to top it off, practice bad habits enough as it is to add to any. too, i imagine that if you're lucky enough to ever make a living from writing and deadlines are a consideration, barebones just guarantees an extra draft, and that strikes me as terrible time-management.

barebones is, imo, a shortcut to getting it done, so i think there's an appeal there that's attractive to novice writers. so when a published and/or respected member here says to barebones it, an impressionable writer might actually do that. i know that once you do something over the course of an entire novel or two, it can be very hard to break that habit. granted, everyone will wind up doing it they way they do it, but for those who don't have a method just yet and can go either way, i think it really behooves novice writers to do as solid a first draft as possible. one novel i did was waaay skimpy, one was waaay too hefty, and it's just a lot easier cutting than adding (i think, anyway) in terms of telling a coherent story that's not tripping over itself and requires yet *another* draft you could have avoided.

as it is, i personally go for a solid first draft then go directly into editing, which takes a long time because that's where i do all the fixes. a read through (invariably finding minour stuff), polish, another read through, and if it's not done by then, in the trunk it goes. writers who do detailed outlines, character cards, etc., *then* goes on to do eight drafts completely baffle me.

i'm a bit wordy (big shock there), and always have stuff to trim. and it takes longer for a solid rough draft. still, when you barebones it, that's one draft, then bulking it up is another draft (this gets you to where you would be after a solid first draft), *then* you get to start on editing. just guestimating here, but if i took the latter approach, i'd probably be adding months onto the project. i believe, also, that the longer you spend on something doesn't necessarily mean you're making it any better.

i'm not saying doing barebones is wrong. if that's the way you do it, hey, great. if it works, it works. i'm just saying that if you've got a choice, personally, i'd recommend a solid first draft for long-term reasons.

yeah, i knew some of 'greats' would be trotted out to show how slow and how many drafts they took. most of us aren't hemingway, who did something on the order of three words a week (a slight exaggeration), but i'm not sure what that proves. it certainly doesn't mean that rewriting every single word is the way do go. i'm also taking into consideration practicality. melville was an obsessed nut over his work (at least later, as i recall), but i don't recommend that, either, lol. 'biff and the squirrel space corps' ain't 'moby dick,' know what i mean? riffing off LOTR shouldn't take as long as writing LOTR as long as you're a moderately experienced writer.

all my opinion of course. :)

[popmuze]

Forget about first draft, I'm just trying to get past the first chapter. Mentally, I can't move on until I think it's perfect. I may work on the first 50 pages for months. I feel once I get the first 50 right, I can blaze through the rest of the draft.

[lfraser]

I'm obviously incapable of doing a barebones first draft. I've tried -- I'd love to be able to do one -- but inevitably I write the way I write, which is anything from 500 words to 2,500 words a day, maximum, and it's detailed, complete with description and dialogue. It's not polished. There are lots of geuinely bad sentences. But all of the scenic details and thoughts and actions are there, roughly.

The closest I can come to a barebones draft is a one-page scene outline written in first person just to get the overall trajectory in place. I might write three or four of those in a day when I'm panicking about how long this is taking.

[Angelinity]

i take my time with each scene, bones and flesh. if i get stuck on something, i leave it (after 'reddening' the offending paragraph) and skip on to the next scene.

going back over older chapters, i often find 'missing links' -- sometimes entire pages of description and dialogue will be inserted into what i had believed to be a complete and satisfying scene. so as i finish my first draft, the story has likely already gone through at least two edits.

this makes me a slow writer, but it's just how it works best for me.

[preyer]

i skip around and keep lots of notes for scenes to get to, done more to keep my interest level high. anything more methodical than that makes it seem more like a job. but, i mean, yeah, i've had to essentially outline due to the circumstance, like being at work and having an idea, just not when i sit down and have the time to think and do something, ah, 'proper like.'

i'm like you, lf, it's hardly polished after the first draft, but the meat of it is there. there's always a lot of fat to be trimmed off. i'm also pretty darn confident that what i write is necessary, and even when i know it's not absolutely necessary, if i feel it's entertaining enough, it stays. if i needed to add 20K, it would be stuff i know i don't need.

[WendyNYC]

i'm also pretty darn confident that what i write is necessary, and even when i know it's not absolutely necessary, if i feel it's entertaining enough, it stays. if i needed to add 20K, it would be stuff i know i don't need.

Ah, see, but this is my problem. I go off on wild description tangents. My weakness is furthering the plot, so getting the action and dialogue out is important for me. I have no problem going back in and slowing the pace down with description. I could do that ALL DAY. It's being able to to target exactly where I should do it, and where I need to just GET ON WITH THE PLOT is where I need to stop and think.

[joyce]

I write my first draft as tight as possible, though it generally ends us too short. When I edit I fix scenes that needed a little more punch, so words are added where needed. I've heard you are suppose to just write whatever the first time around, but that is hard for me to do. Personally, it's best for me to try and get it as right as possible the first time around. I hate editing so I try really hard to get everything down as I'd like it the first time.

[preyer]

every writer has their strengths and weaknesses, of course, wendy. the list of my writing weaknesses might shut the internet down. it sounds like you know what you consider to be one of your writing faults, that being, as i understand it, second-guessing yourself. someone someday will say something and it'll be an epiphany to you; the clouds will part and brilliant rays of intellectual and creative sunbeams will burst upon your barren landscape accompanied by legions of happy muses bearing gifts of frankensense, mihr and skittles (apologies for the spelling there). so i'll do that ~

straight from the hack files, i give you

PREYER'S SURE-FIRE, NEVER-MISS, GUARANTEED OR YOUR MONEY BACK WAY TO FURTHER YOUR PLOT (void in s. carolina, illinois, new york, kentucky and any other state that's pissed me off)

there are a lot of things i don't think in terms of as i write. what i do think of, however, are templates. your genre, characters and setting... well, that's the whole story right there, right? if i happen to give a shit that day about what the reader expects, i might consider that. but, since my junk is (hopefully) character-driven, i want to know how the character starts off and how he ends ~ absolutely everything inbetween is about that transformation. the genre and setting is nothing more than window dressing to me, simply means to entertain myself from point A to point Zed.

but, you've got a basic template that's got a range of possibilities. you decide you want a romance angle, and that's another template in itself. you put one template on top of another and write the points that intersect. you start adding templates such as basic plots and before you know it, you can't write an outline fast enough. (i've amazed people with my 'prediction' skillz, when all i've done is figured out what kind of template they've used that leads towards a generally natural story progression, i.e. plot development. it's especially powerful when the writer doesn't realize what a 'hack' they really are, as if 'hack' was a four-letter word.)

furthering the plot is pointedly easy when you know the end. when you have a starting off point and a destination, it's getting from plot point to plot point where you spend your time. when you think in term of templates, plot points that serve as destinations within the main body of the story become apparent. i think where people who don't outline might have problems is when they don't have an ending in mind, and their story kind of evolves into mired tangents without direction. know your beginning and your ending and you should hopefully have a very solid idea on how to connect the two.

this epiphany is now closed. for further epiphanies, please drop a quarter into the slot in back of your computer tower (fifty cents for mac users only because i'll probably have to tell a mac user what a coin slot is).

[preyer]

'I've heard you are suppose to just write whatever the first time around...' ~ this is exactly the kind of blanket 'advice' i'm railing against here. :) i'd like to think that i'm helping to save some impressionable writer from actually following this advice in hopes that someday their lament won't be, 'man, i wish i was more prolific.' hard to be prolific when after six novels you've spent an additional year bulking up your bareboned first drafts. i just don't want a novice writer to think there's only one best way, and if barebones works best for someone, i'm good with that, too.

[WendyNYC]

Thanks for the advice, preyer. I'll ignore the fact it's void in NY.

Here's where I get mired in the muck: I know where the plot is going and how it's going to end, but I tend to write so, so much about every single detail the MC is experiencing. We don't need to know exactly how she opened the door, or that Pink was playing on the radio while birds twittered just outside the window. We just need to get in the room so that something might happen.

But this is my first novel and I am green green green. So I'll try your advice out and see what works.

[preyer]

well, what you're doing isn't exactly unusual. you probably know as you're writing it it'll be removed later, eh? lol. it's sad on one hand knowing that there's a good chance the first novel may garner all sorts of jeers and rejection, but it's great because you learn so much in the process.

besides, who knows if all that stuff is worthy of removing? other generic blanket advice i can't stand is 'be as concise as humanly possible' and 'start off with action.'

it's just as likely that you're doing a lot better than you think you are.

[WittyandorIronic]

I am a novice writer, but I have found that whatever story I have only feels "real" for so long. During that time I am intimately aware of the story, plot, characters, scenes, and setting. I work like mad trying to get down all that information, but at some point it just leaves me. If I am not done writing my 1st draft by that time I am finding I have a REALLY hard time going back and getting back into it. Maybe that will change with seasoning, but I often feel like I can't waste a week getting a chapter "perfect", because I only have 1-2 months of being inside that story, and far more than 8 chapters to go.
So I bare bone it. Like another poster mentioned, I get the pace and emotion of those scenes down, and hopefully upon revisiting I will be able to flesh it out further.
As I am still much of a novice, I haven't finished enough things to make a clear determination of whether my style is successful.

[preyer]

interesting that you mention getting your pace down, witty. i don't know how a writer can effectively nail any kind of pace if they've got fifty thousand words to add later, lol. too, you mention staying interested: i suffer from the same exact problem. i know that if i bareboned it, though, that i'd be spending even more time on it in the long run and risk even further my chances of seeing it through. it's a tricky business for me.

i think you're absolutely right, too, witty and wendy, in that what you describe are very common bumps on the road towards earning your stripes. that is, experience is an invaluable teacher. in your case, witty, it sounds to me as if there's a solid first-drafter buried in there.

i'll think about a story and have to write down bits and pieces so i don't forget them. short of outlining, that's the only way i'll be able to remember how i wanted to get to where i'm going. i think i mentioned how i skip around and do the scenes that excite me that day. novels are marathons, so i have to really dig deep to find ways of catching my breath. to make matters worse, there are bugs that live one day with longer attention spans than mine.

[triceretops]

I really lay it out as solid as a can, with the least amount of plot holes. Since I don't often use outlines, I could lose myself (and the story thread) if I wrote in fast and generalized terms. A solid foundation is important to me. I do want to avoid heavy content editing after the first draft.

Tri

[TurkeyLurkey]

Glad you posted this prayer!

I have been writing poetry and non-fiction for many years, but this year is my first foray into writing a book. I took the advice I had read and just plowed through my very first rough draft. (82k in two months) Then went back several weeks later to edit it. I felt completely overwhelmed by the task. The plot has great potential, but the whole thing was done in present tense narrative. I was basically a sportscaster talking about the events in the story. Honestly, Id rather burn the story than edit it.

Now I am taking a different approach. I outlined my current WIP first, and I am being as meticulous as possible with each chapter. I'm practicing different tenses, POVs, and even voices until I get it right. It is an arduous task, however, I don't think I will feel so overwhelmed about editing it once the RD is finished. (crossing fingers) Hopefully this new approach will work out. :)

[andracill]

I think my first draft is two-thirds of the final. It's bare bones in the sense that I usually only add to that from then on.