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blacbird
10-17-2007, 08:26 AM
Yes, I do watch him, with considerable regularity. Tonight in his culture quiz, a frivolous bit that graces his show the way the Oddball segment graces Olbermann's, he asked a trivia question about the movie Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid. The question was easy and meaningless, but the good part was that he ran a clip of my absolute favorite scene and dialog line from that wonderful film, the place where Butch tries to blow up a safe on a train car, and blows the entire car to smithereens. As the debris (and money) floats to the ground, Robert Redford, as Sundance, says to Paul Newman (Butch):

"Think you used enough dynamite there, Butch?"

Makes me laugh every time I see it.

caw

Jean Marie
10-17-2007, 08:31 AM
You're too funny, blac. I just watched that segment and laughed at that line, too.

I love that line!

blacbird
10-17-2007, 08:38 AM
As an aside, that particular scene has a pretty good historical pedigree. The Cassidy gang did indeed strike a Union Pacific train on two consecutive runs, back and forth, and did indeed victimize the same hapless clerk (whose name was Woodcock), and did blow up an entire train car, which got the Pinkerton dudes heavy on their butts, which led to their flight to Bolivia.

caw

Jean Marie
10-17-2007, 08:53 AM
As an aside, that particular scene has a pretty good historical pedigree. The Cassidy gang did indeed strike a Union Pacific train on two consecutive runs, back and forth, and did indeed victimize the same hapless clerk (whose name was Woodcock), and did blow up an entire train car, which got the Pinkerton dudes heavy on their butts, which led to their flight to Bolivia.

caw
Cool. Thanks. That's good to know, 'cause that's one of my favorite movies.

InfinityGoddess
10-17-2007, 06:25 PM
You must have an iron stomach, blac. I couldn't watch even one clip of Bill-O without being disgusted enough to feel nauseaus. I honestly don't know how you do it.

William Haskins
10-17-2007, 06:42 PM
in all seriousness, IG, it plays a large factor in why and how blacbird can argue intelligently and rationally about political topics. those who live in an echo chamber, as you—by all indications—do, are often one-dimensional and rigid in their thinking.

i hope that you give yourself an opportunity to explore multiple viewpoints and open yourself up to evolution of thought and philosophy. in this age of media oversaturation, we can all easily fall into the trap of exposing ourselves only to what we want to hear.

it take a certain level of intellectual courage to step outside of that comfort zone, but it can be quite rewarding.

InfinityGoddess
10-17-2007, 07:11 PM
in all seriousness, IG, it plays a large factor in why and how blacbird can argue intelligently and rationally about political topics. those who live in an echo chamber, as you—by all indications—do, are often one-dimensional and rigid in their thinking.

i hope that you give yourself an opportunity to explore multiple viewpoints and open yourself up to evolution of thought and philosophy. in this age of media oversaturation, we can all easily fall into the trap of exposing ourselves only to what we want to hear.

it take a certain level of intellectual courage to step outside of that comfort zone, but it can be quite rewarding.

Sorry, but unless I can do it in a way that a) doesn't disturb my neighbors when I yell at the tv (the RA says no noise may move beyond the walls and the hallway; them's the rules) and b) feel like I want to throw up afterwards (Matthews is bad enough when he lets the right-wingers on his own show), it's not going to happen. Simply not.

And I know this because I have seen how the "other side" thinks. I was all over Scarborough when Terri Schiavo happened. I stopped watching right then when my parents complained about my shouting. :x

Cranky
10-17-2007, 07:11 PM
in all seriousness, IG, it plays a large factor in why and how blacbird can argue intelligently and rationally about political topics. those who live in an echo chamber, as you—by all indications—do, are often one-dimensional and rigid in their thinking.

i hope that you give yourself an opportunity to explore multiple viewpoints and open yourself up to evolution of thought and philosophy. in this age of media oversaturation, we can all easily fall into the trap of exposing ourselves only to what we want to hear.

it take a certain level of intellectual courage to step outside of that comfort zone, but it can be quite rewarding.

Yeah, it's pretty easy these days to find news/facts that fit only your worldview, and it's not limited to just politics. :)

Seriously, IG, you ought to take Haskin's advice. It's difficult for me to read or listen to stuff that makes me angry because I disagree, but sometimes there is truth in the opposition position. You'll never know that if you don't take the time to investigate lots of different sources.

InfinityGoddess
10-17-2007, 07:15 PM
Yeah, it's pretty easy these days to find news/facts that fit only your worldview, and it's not limited to just politics. :)

Seriously, IG, you ought to take Haskin's advice. It's difficult for me to read or listen to stuff that makes me angry because I disagree, but sometimes there is truth in the opposition position. You'll never know that if you don't take the time to investigate lots of different sources.


See my comment above as to why I can't watch right-wingers. I dare not repeat myself.

Toothpaste
10-17-2007, 07:24 PM
Um . . . so if I don't watch Bill O'Reilly I am ill informed and no nothing of many sides of the debate? I think that may be a logical fallacy. You do know there are other ways to learn both sides of an issue without watching some man yell at you. I think it is more of a matter of delivery. I also hate entertainment news shows. In fact, I really take issue with any tv programme where the host just yells at me.

Doesn't mean I'm ill informed or one sided. For example, newspapers don't yell nearly as much.

Jean Marie
10-17-2007, 07:25 PM
Then, self control is something that ought to be investigated, IG, so that you may be able to broaden your horizons, as William suggested.

Otherwise, you're stuck w/ a narrow way of thinking; your own.

InfinityGoddess
10-17-2007, 07:27 PM
Um . . . so if I don't watch Bill O'Reilly I am ill informed and no nothing of many sides of the debate? I think that may be a logical fallacy. You do know there are other ways to learn both sides of an issue without watching some man yell at you. I think it is more of a matter of delivery. I also hate entertainment news shows. In fact, I really take issue with any tv programme where the host just yells at me.

Doesn't mean I'm ill informed or one sided. For example, newspapers don't yell nearly as much.

Exactly what I've been trying to tell people. I can always watch clips, and they don't irritate me nearly as much as the whole show would (though still pretty bad enough).

Then, self control is something that ought to be investigated, IG, so that you may be able to broaden your horizons, as William suggested.

Otherwise, you're stuck w/ a narrow way of thinking; your own.

Honestly, how many times do I have to repeat myself? I'm not going to do it. Not. As Toothpaste said, there are other ways to find out the other side without subjecting myself to some raving maniac on Fixed News.

That, and I refuse to give Murdoch any boost in ratings for his deplorable network.

Cranky
10-17-2007, 07:30 PM
Um . . . so if I don't watch Bill O'Reilly I am ill informed and no nothing of many sides of the debate? I think that may be a logical fallacy. You do know there are other ways to learn both sides of an issue without watching some man yell at you. I think it is more of a matter of delivery. I also hate entertainment news shows. In fact, I really take issue with any tv programme where the host just yells at me.

Doesn't mean I'm ill informed or one sided. For example, newspapers don't yell nearly as much.


No, you'd have to skip Rush Limbaugh, too. LOL

Seriously, though, the more widely we listen/read, the better off we are. I hate Huffington Post, DaiyKos, etc., but I at least make an effort to read them. I hate the editorial stuff on CNN (not all of it is, I know), but I watch pretty regularily. Actually, I hate FOX even more...it's far more sensationalistic, imo, than CNN.

Jean Marie
10-17-2007, 07:33 PM
Exactly what I've been trying to tell people. I can always watch clips, and they don't irritate me nearly as much as the whole show would (though still pretty bad enough).
Clips are taken out of context, and are not the flavor of the entire show. As we've seen many times, in the past.

Either way, take the suggestion, or not. Learn self control, or not. 'Tis up to you, IG.

Instead of yelling and screaming at the TV, you could engage other students in a conversation about what they agree/disagree w/. Allow them to speak about their viewpoints. Hear what they have to say.

In other words, IG, engage others and listen for a change. Just sayin'.

You're in a college environment, take advantage of it.

Toothpaste
10-17-2007, 07:34 PM
I disagree. I don't think I have to watch or be party to absolutely everything on television to have an intelligent grasp on the issues surrounding political debate. Now if I was interested in the man himself, or if someone was saying horrible things about Bill and I was interested on whether or not they made a point, then I would check him out. In fact that was how I was introduced to the man in the first place, I wanted to see what all the fuss was about.

But as far as political issues, I don't need to listen to Mr. O in order to have a truly balanced view. (I am not just referring to the right wing media btw)

Jean Marie
10-17-2007, 07:35 PM
Exactly what I've been trying to tell people. I can always watch clips, and they don't irritate me nearly as much as the whole show would (though still pretty bad enough).



Honestly, how many times do I have to repeat myself? I'm not going to do it. Not. As Toothpaste said, there are other ways to find out the other side without subjecting myself to some raving maniac on Fixed News.

That, and I refuse to give Murdoch any boost in ratings for his deplorable network.
Closed minds don't have much to offer. Bolding mine.

Roger J Carlson
10-17-2007, 07:37 PM
Exactly what I've been trying to tell people. I can always watch clips, and they don't irritate me nearly as much as the whole show would (though still pretty bad enough).Where do you see these clips?

InfinityGoddess
10-17-2007, 07:37 PM
Clips are taken out of context, and are not the flavor of the entire show. As we've seen many times, in the past.

Either way, take the suggestion, or not. Learn self control, or not. 'Tis up to you, IG.

Instead of yelling and screaming at the TV, you could engage other students in a conversation about what they agree/disagree w/. Allow them to speak about their viewpoints. Hear what they have to say.

In other words, IG, engage others and listen for a change. Just sayin'.

You're in a college environment, take advantage of it.

I go to an art school. Most people here are either liberal or apolitical. Wouldn't make for much of a debate anyways.

Furthermore, the whole "clips taken out of context" thing is pure fallacy, especially when they come supplimented with transcripts. It's simply a matter of how one interprets them.

Closed minds don't have much to offer. Bolding mine.

Again, your argument holds no water. I have watched conservative media before and have long accepted the fact I can't tolerate it. I have no stomach for hate speech. I would say the same thing if the commentator were a liberal.

Toothpaste
10-17-2007, 07:38 PM
Youtube.

I don't know if there is a history with IG, because I don't come here that often, but why is there so much down the throat jumping going on? It seems like a huge overreaction to one person saying they don't like a man who a lot of people don't like.

William Haskins
10-17-2007, 07:41 PM
Um . . . so if I don't watch Bill O'Reilly I am ill informed and no nothing of many sides of the debate? I think that may be a logical fallacy. You do know there are other ways to learn both sides of an issue without watching some man yell at you. I think it is more of a matter of delivery. I also hate entertainment news shows. In fact, I really take issue with any tv programme where the host just yells at me.

Doesn't mean I'm ill informed or one sided. For example, newspapers don't yell nearly as much.

i think you're missing my point and, reading back over my post, i'll take partial responsibility for being unclear, although i think you're also being somewhat obstinate.

i certainly did not mean o'reilly specifically, or even television commentators.

Jean Marie
10-17-2007, 07:41 PM
I disagree. I don't think I have to watch or be party to absolutely everything on television to have an intelligent grasp on the issues surrounding political debate. Now if I was interested in the man himself, or if someone was saying horrible things about Bill and I was interested on whether or not they made a point, then I would check him out. In fact that was how I was introduced to the man in the first place, I wanted to see what all the fuss was about.

But as far as political issues, I don't need to listen to Mr. O in order to have a truly balanced view. (I am not just referring to the right wing media btw)
I'm not saying Mr. O, or FOX news in general to be balanced in your viewpoint(s). Sorry. What I am saying is, is that you need to listen to many different shows and read a variety of newspapers.

That said, listening to FOX or Mr. O to form an opinion is how you form one. You don't base it on hearsay or clips, either. That's faulty logic.

I don't see how one can expand your horizons if you aren't willing to listen to what you don't care for. How does that help in your decision making?

Sheryl Nantus
10-17-2007, 07:42 PM
Youtube.

I don't know if there is a history with IG, because I don't come here that often, but why is there so much down the throat jumping going on? It seems like a huge overreaction to one person saying they don't like a man who a lot of people don't like.

just Americans beating on each other.

don't worry - the rising of the Great Canadian Empire will have them all yearning to move North and experience the glory that will be Canada!

:D

P.S. Shortwave radio is also a great place to get information. I love BBC America, Radio-Canada and a slew of other stations.

Cranky
10-17-2007, 07:44 PM
just Americans beating on each other.

don't worry - the rising of the Great Canadian Empire will have them all yearning to move North and experience the glory that will be Canada!

:D

P.S. Shortwave radio is also a great place to get information. I love BBC America, Radio-Canada and a slew of other stations.

O, Canada! :)

Jean Marie
10-17-2007, 07:45 PM
O, Canada! :)
O, shut up :D

Sheryl Nantus
10-17-2007, 07:47 PM
O, Canada! :)

We shall remember you when selling beachfront property up in the Arctic.

:D

InfinityGoddess
10-17-2007, 07:50 PM
Youtube.

I don't know if there is a history with IG, because I don't come here that often, but why is there so much down the throat jumping going on? It seems like a huge overreaction to one person saying they don't like a man who a lot of people don't like.

Because apparently, in the minds of some people, I'm "close-minded" because I don't like watching or listening to conservative right-wing media and refuse to watch it (I already watch Hardball on MSNBC as it is and the people that have been allowed on Matthews show would certainly qualify as right-wingers to the max and they're plenty bad enough).

I prefer hearing about things through people who can deliver real information without going into the areas of bashing liberals, gays, poor people, children, women, etc.

Cranky
10-17-2007, 07:52 PM
We shall remember you when selling beachfront property up in the Arctic.

:D

Do I get a discount for falling in with my new Canadian overlords?

Roger J Carlson
10-17-2007, 07:52 PM
I prefer hearing about things through people who can deliver real information without going into the areas of bashing liberals, gays, poor people, children, women, etc.In other words, you want other people to do your thinking for you. I think that's Williams original point.

Roger J Carlson
10-17-2007, 07:56 PM
We shall remember you when selling beachfront property up in the Arctic.

:DActually, global warming is predicted to produce a mini ice age first. See this National Geographic (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/11/1130_051130_ice_age.html)article. But don't worry, we'll be glad to take all you Canuckers in as long as you leave your health care system behind. :D

InfinityGoddess
10-17-2007, 07:56 PM
In other words, you want other people to do your thinking for you. I think that's Williams original point.

No. I'm saying I don't want to subject myself to that crap for an hour out of my day. It's bad enough on Hardball, and it's bad enough reading transcripts and viewing/hearing clips. That's my feeling on the subject.

Toothpaste
10-17-2007, 07:57 PM
in all seriousness, IG, it plays a large factor in why and how blacbird can argue intelligently and rationally about political topics. those who live in an echo chamber, as you—by all indications—do, are often one-dimensional and rigid in their thinking.

i hope that you give yourself an opportunity to explore multiple viewpoints and open yourself up to evolution of thought and philosophy. in this age of media oversaturation, we can all easily fall into the trap of exposing ourselves only to what we want to hear.

it take a certain level of intellectual courage to step outside of that comfort zone, but it can be quite rewarding.

Was the response to IG saying that she didn't like Bill O. I am assuming that there is much more background to this debate then simply this debate, that you understood by IG's statement she meant all right wing media. I just read what was on the surface. What I read was you accusing someone of being ignorant for not watching Bill O.

If what you meant was one needs to watch and read many different viewpoints in order to come up with one's own, then we totally agree, and I apologise if I misrepresented you.

Sheryl Nantus
10-17-2007, 07:58 PM
Because apparently, in the minds of some people, I'm "close-minded" because I don't like watching or listening to conservative right-wing media and refuse to watch it (I already watch Hardball on MSNBC as it is and the people that have been allowed on Matthews show would certainly qualify as right-wingers to the max and they're plenty bad enough).

I prefer hearing about things through people who can deliver real information without going into the areas of bashing liberals, gays, poor people, children, women, etc.

if I can interject from an old Canuck broad's POV...

I often force myself to watch shows that I wouldn't usually watch - maybe it's that whole multiculturalism thang that we are indoctrinated up in the North, but we've been taught to respect other POVs whether we agree or not - and the only way to KNOW the other POV is to actually watch the show.

so I'll watch FOX, then CNN then turn over to MSNBC and then to probably a religious channel and so forth. I don't have to AGREE with them, but knowing and watching their POV makes it easier for me to make an informed decision that is MINE, not sold to me by people with agendas and a slew of sound bites. The public's become a lot easier to manipulate thanks to the Internet allowing not only instant access to information but also to DISinformation.

at least if I have to state a position on a topic I know it's MINE based on information that *I* have watched/experienced or researched - not sold to me by biased websites or by people who have no real interest in my wellbeing other than to get my support for something that they may not actually support but makes money for someone.

so it goes, as Father Kurt would say.

William Haskins
10-17-2007, 08:00 PM
If what you meant was one needs to watch and read many different viewpoints in order to come up with one's own, then we totally agree, and I apologise if I misrepresented you.

that's exactly what i meant... and no apology is necessary as, admittedly, i could have worded it better.

thanks.

InfinityGoddess
10-17-2007, 08:07 PM
if I can interject from an old Canuck broad's POV...

I often force myself to watch shows that I wouldn't usually watch - maybe it's that whole multiculturalism thang that we are indoctrinated up in the North, but we've been taught to respect other POVs whether we agree or not - and the only way to KNOW the other POV is to actually watch the show.

so I'll watch FOX, then CNN then turn over to MSNBC and then to probably a religious channel and so forth. I don't have to AGREE with them, but knowing and watching their POV makes it easier for me to make an informed decision that is MINE, not sold to me by people with agendas and a slew of sound bites. The public's become a lot easier to manipulate thanks to the Internet allowing not only instant access to information but also to DISinformation.

at least if I have to state a position on a topic I know it's MINE based on information that *I* have watched/experienced or researched - not sold to me by biased websites or by people who have no real interest in my wellbeing other than to get my support for something that they may not actually support but makes money for someone.

so it goes, as Father Kurt would say.

Like I said, if you can do it, great. If you can't, then don't jam it down that person's throat. I can't and I'm already starting to get irritated with people who don't know when to back off from trying to convince me otherwise.

I already stated numerous times that I have exposed myself to right-wing media enough to know that I'm better off not watching/listening to a full hour of it. But no one seems to believe me. So I shall leave it at that.

Jean Marie
10-17-2007, 08:25 PM
Right, IG, but getting second-hand information from others who've actually taken the time to listen is not the way to get it, either. How do you know what you're getting hasn't been filtered or distorted by the time it's relayed to you.

Ever play the game telephone when you were little. By the time the original bit has gone around, it doesn't match up.

Therein lies the point of this discussion. If you listen to the news, yourself, you're getting it first-hand. But, if you remain closed to hearing varying viewpoints, well then, you get the point.

Sheryl Nantus
10-17-2007, 08:25 PM
Like I said, if you can do it, great. If you can't, then don't jam it down that person's throat. I can't and I'm already starting to get irritated with people who don't know when to back off from trying to convince me otherwise.

I already stated numerous times that I have exposed myself to right-wing media enough to know that I'm better off not watching/listening to a full hour of it. But no one seems to believe me. So I shall leave it at that.

no offense, but that shows an amazing lack of self-control. If you can't bear to listen to an alternative POV, how can you expect others to convert to yours?

can I read left-wing/right-wing blogs and not get mad? Hardly... but I realize that being informed allows me to be as neutral as possible on issues that count - not just another puppet being battered around by each side hoping to get my support and praying that I don't do my research.

to put it in terms you may better relate to - if I said that Japanese manga sucked because all I've read/seen was DragonBall Z or OnePiece, would that be a fair representation? Of course not - as you and I both know, there's some FABOO manga out there with plots and characters that make US comics pale in comparision. But if the only manga I look at is substandard, then how can I make a statement like that and seen rational?

if you don't have the self-control then you'll be at the mercy of those who would manipulate you for their own means - left or right, they're hoping you don't have the fortitude to do your own thinking and allow yourself to be fed what they want you to know.

if you can't, well... I weep for your generation. They'll never know the truth because they want to be told everything.

:(

William Haskins
10-17-2007, 08:54 PM
IG,

this is not about telling you to suffer rightwing commentary, but more of a general statement about broadening your horizons. anyone who rejects exposure to ideas outside their current realm of thinking is setting themselves up to languish in a prison of their own device.

TheGaffer
10-17-2007, 11:04 PM
IG,

this is not about telling you to suffer rightwing commentary, but more of a general statement about broadening your horizons. anyone who rejects exposure to ideas outside their current realm of thinking is setting themselves up to languish in a prison of their own device.


You're giving advice while quoting The Eagles? I mean, c'mon.

Sheryl Nantus
10-17-2007, 11:13 PM
oh, great.

now I can't get "Hotel California" outta my head!

:D

InfinityGoddess
10-17-2007, 11:14 PM
IG,

this is not about telling you to suffer rightwing commentary, but more of a general statement about broadening your horizons. anyone who rejects exposure to ideas outside their current realm of thinking is setting themselves up to languish in a prison of their own device.

Haskins,

I have already "broadened my horizons". I was watching conservative tv long before I heard that there were alternatives. I can't stomach hate speech. It's that simple. I can't even stand liberal talk show host Mike Malloy for the same reasons I can't stand Bill-O or the Comedian or even Hannity or Beck. I watch Chris Matthews and he has right-wingers on all of the damned time. I do occasionally read right-wing articles like the ones at World Net Daily. To me, that's all the right-wing stuff I can tolerate after I get home from a long day of school.

Call me closed all you want, it's still not going to make me "get the other view" by subjecting myself to stuff where I can't maintain a certain amount of decorum for my housemates. I'll force myself drink bleach first.

William Haskins
10-17-2007, 11:18 PM
then don't.

but, again, i haven't said anything about watching /listening to/reading "rightwing" stuff.

i'm talking about in a general sense.

actually, i made my original post with the best of intentions.

<edited by moderator>

Roger J Carlson
10-17-2007, 11:18 PM
conservative tv = hate speech?

ETA: never mind.

InfinityGoddess
10-17-2007, 11:26 PM
choke on your fucking ignorance. what do i care...

You can believe I'm ignorant all you want. Excuse me if I prefer more tolerable methods of "being balanced".

Tiger
10-18-2007, 12:21 AM
You must have an iron stomach, blac. I couldn't watch even one clip of Bill-O without being disgusted enough to feel nauseaus. I honestly don't know how you do it.

Hah.

1. Not knowing how someone keeps informed about things nets you no bragging rights.

2. Please look up the word, "nauseous," IG. You've actually stumbled upon it's correct usage.

InfinityGoddess
10-18-2007, 12:35 AM
Hah.

1. Not knowing how someone keeps informed about things nets you no bragging rights.



I'd like to know how I've "bragged". I don't believe I've ever staked a claim in knowing everything, have I?

Yes, I've made some missteps. But that doesn't mean I don't know how to work around obtaining knowledge about certain issues. I think what I'm saying here is that one doesn't necessarily need to keep the brain bleach handy in order to keep up on the issues. There are better ways of being informed. I just don't think that the methods other people here use works for me, is all.

William Haskins
10-18-2007, 01:28 AM
You're giving advice while quoting The Eagles? I mean, c'mon.

hmmm... i would prefer the doors' invocation of the phrase. seems more fitting to the situation:

Unhappy girl,
Left all alone,
Playing solitaire,
Playing warden to your soul
You are locked in a prison of your own device.

And you can't believe
What it does to me
To see you cryin'.

Unhappy girl,
Tear your web away.
Saw through all your bars
Melt your cell today
You are caught in a prison of your own device.

Unhappy girl,
Fly fast away,
Don't miss your chance
To swim in mystery.
You are dying in a prison of your own device.

Dawno
10-18-2007, 06:34 AM
Please, back to the topic. I understand the frustration I'm seeing here - I've experienced it, too, and am guilty of getting more personal than I should. That said, sometimes you can lead a horse to water, etc...

Don't really like locking threads or editing people's posts. Really, I don't. A little help, here, ok?

TheGaffer
10-18-2007, 06:49 AM
The Doors.

All is forgiven.

I was beginning to worry bout you.

JohnDoe79
10-18-2007, 06:29 PM
I don't blame you for not watching Bill O'Reily, I won't do it either. Not just because his a lunatic, rude, and a rabid right winger, but I have only so many hours in the day. I work, I write screenplays, and I go swimming.

Most of my television time (and I rarely watch tv) is spent watching things I enjoy watching. Life is short, so there's no reason to watch something you can't stand.

The only right wing editorials I read are those at the Wall Street Journal, (also a part of Murdoch's empire). But their conservatism is more of a fiscal/pro business conservatism, not a cultural take the US back to the 1800s conservatism that some right wingers expose (Trent Lott once said Storm Thurmond should have one the presidency on his racist/KKK platform).

And speaking of which, I don't have to give all sides an audience or my free time.

Those who want IG to open herself to the likes of Bill O'Reily to increase her open mindedness, well, would you guys open yourselves to the likes of child molestors, Islamic jihadists, Nazis, etc? Hey sex offenders, terrorists are human too and a part of the picture. I personally won't open myself to those people, as there are somethings I'm repelled by so much there's no way I can compromise my point of view.

Roger J Carlson
10-18-2007, 06:44 PM
Those who want IG to open herself to the likes of Bill O'Reily to increase her open mindedness, well, would you guys open yourselves to the likes of child molestors, Islamic jihadists, Nazis, etc? Hey sex offenders, terrorists are human too and a part of the picture. I personally won't open myself to those people, as there are somethings I'm repelled by so much there's no way I can compromise my point of view.Comparing Bill O'Reilly with child molesters, Islamic jihadists, and Nazis* is about as disingenuous an argument as I can imagine.

*I believe this thread has been officially Godwined (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law).

William Haskins
10-18-2007, 06:51 PM
how ridiculous.

davids
10-18-2007, 07:07 PM
I find it interesting and at least marginally amusing that Mr. Haskins has given kind and educated thought to IGs post and that as often is the case has totally been missunderstood. I mean that sincerely. I know I know Mr. Haskinis you do not give a shit but it was a genuine, careing, and commendable post.

Amusing in the sense that the thread was kidnapped and Billy? His ratings are really not very high I have heard or read somewhere, and like the rest of the talk sluts in the long run it is so drab and boring as to make yawning a national pastime!

And as to the post about the nazi, child molester things-absurd!!

Sheryl Nantus
10-18-2007, 07:10 PM
*I believe this thread has been offically Godwined (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law).

oh, big time.

Cranky
10-18-2007, 07:19 PM
I don't blame you for not watching Bill O'Reily, I won't do it either. Not just because his a lunatic, rude, and a rabid right winger, but I have only so many hours in the day. I work, I write screenplays, and I go swimming.

Most of my television time (and I rarely watch tv) is spent watching things I enjoy watching. Life is short, so there's no reason to watch something you can't stand.

The only right wing editorials I read are those at the Wall Street Journal, (also a part of Murdoch's empire). But their conservatism is more of a fiscal/pro business conservatism, not a cultural take the US back to the 1800s conservatism that some right wingers expose (Trent Lott once said Storm Thurmond should have one the presidency on his racist/KKK platform).

And speaking of which, I don't have to give all sides an audience or my free time.

Those who want IG to open herself to the likes of Bill O'Reily to increase her open mindedness, well, would you guys open yourselves to the likes of child molestors, Islamic jihadists, Nazis, etc? Hey sex offenders, terrorists are human too and a part of the picture. I personally won't open myself to those people, as there are somethings I'm repelled by so much there's no way I can compromise my point of view.


:gone:

WarrenP
10-18-2007, 08:15 PM
... take the US back to the 1800s conservatism that some right wingers expose (Trent Lott once said Storm Thurmond should have one the presidency on his racist/KKK platform)....

This line alone illustrates why taking the time to actually learn, and try to understand (note, understand does not mean agree with) about differing viewpoints is critical.

InfinityGoddess
10-18-2007, 08:20 PM
This line alone illustrates why taking the time to actually learn, and try to understand (note, understand does not mean agree with) about differing viewpoints is critical.

Do explain.

Sheryl Nantus
10-18-2007, 09:03 PM
Do explain.

You haven't really been reading this thread...

:ROFL:

InfinityGoddess
10-18-2007, 09:19 PM
You haven't really been reading this thread...

:ROFL:

Considering that people have been critical of how I obtain my information and news, how can I not? I was just curious how Warren would come to the conclusion that he did with JohnDoe's post.

Jean Marie
10-18-2007, 09:31 PM
how ridiculous.
William summarized JohnDoe's post best, IG. At least it was the most concise.

InfinityGoddess
10-18-2007, 09:58 PM
William summarized JohnDoe's post best, IG. At least it was the most concise.

I didn't think it was that off the mark, actually. I'm curious about Warren's comments. I'm already aware of Haskins' opinions.

WarrenP
10-19-2007, 11:00 AM
I didn't think it was that off the mark, actually. I'm curious about Warren's comments. I'm already aware of Haskins' opinions.

The fact that you don't think that post is off the mark is the entire point. No one on the Repub side is advocating going back to 1800s policies, that is just silly. Likewise, Lott didn't say that Thurmond should have been President on his KKK/racist views. Context and understanding is everything.

Getting news and opinions about folks one differs with, from folks one agrees with is a dangerous formula.

Let's switch to writers for a moment. I read both Franken and Coulter's books. They both write satire, they are both equally aggressive with their viewpoints. But, folks on the right will say Franken is terrible, and vice versa folks on the left think Coulter is the devil walking the earth.

Let's switch to radio. I listen to both Rush and Randi. If someone on the right heard nothing other than clips picked by folks on the right to illustrate Randi, it would be strange for them not to think she is awful. Likewise, if someone on the left put together clips of Rush to share with friends, they should end up with the result that he is awful.

Understanding opposing viewpoints, on any subject, is critical to development, and to growth as a person. You cannot really understand an opposing viewpoint by hearing the Cliff Notes version of that opposition from someone you don't differ with.

The stereotypes we hold about people are generally not as true as we think in our minds, but without challenging them we will never learn that, only reinforce the incorrect stereotype.

I'll just repeat: Getting news and opinions about folks one differs with, from folks one agrees with is a dangerous formula.

Writer???
10-19-2007, 12:41 PM
<snipped>

Those who want IG to open herself to the likes of Bill O'Reily to increase her open mindedness, well, would you guys open yourselves to the likes of child molestors, Islamic jihadists, Nazis, etc? Hey sex offenders, terrorists are human too and a part of the picture. I personally won't open myself to those people, as there are somethings I'm repelled by so much there's no way I can compromise my point of view.

JD79, I can understand what you were getting at, no one wants to think we should have anything to do with these kind, or give them any voice or publicity. But exposing one's self to the likes of these people is indeed a necessary evil for society at large. They exist and the more we know, the better off we are.

How would parents learn what to watch out for to better protect their children. Where do security precautions and neighborhood watches, and schools get their education from in matters of child molestation so they are better able to understand and know what to watch for and implement safegaurds against? How would one decide (honestly and informedly) what new sercuity might be worth some altered civil rights, if one does not understand BOTH sides of the threat assessment. And how is that done without exposure to those making the threats.

(A side note), where would some of the innocently accused be if people did not understand the lifestyle and patterns of the child molester?

Finally, and I mean no sarcasm or disrepect here, (but you know how ill taken the written word can be sometimes), how would you (or I) know anything about any of those subjects you mention, if not for those willing to investigate, interrogate, write about, and expose, both themselves and society, to the horrors. We can't just sit back and let law enforcement do everything. Nor any branch of the government. We have the politians we have (and have suffered with for decades and decades) because people don't care to be informed. They hear the sound bites and swallow the spin far too often, because they just can't listen to the other side of things.

We can close our eyes and our minds because it (they) are so horrible, but then we can't claim to be so surprised when another group rises to power, or the police knock on your neighbors door and hauls the next John Wayne Gacy or Geoffrey Dahmer (SP?) away, or Trade aggreements send entire indutries elsewhere, or we get just another swingin' dick in the oval office, or yes, another humble house painter corrupts the mind of our young. Can anyone say Skinhead?

I don't know if this thread has been Godwined or not, it may have been a little early for that card to be thrown, but it is getting a little old beating IG with truth and common sense. She doesn't want to listen to them, so what? She has enough input. Give her time maybe she'll grow when she is not so busy or confined by "house rules". It's a process for eveyone, and if she is unable to use the process that allows her to listen and grow, well, things and people don't always get worse. We may wind up with a truly "Lost Generation", or we may be seeing the firmenting of a very rare and exceptionally fine wine.

InfinityGoddess
10-19-2007, 07:49 PM
Getting news and opinions about folks one differs with, from folks one agrees with is a dangerous formula.

That's simply a matter of opinion. Sometimes there is no "real" debate to be had but people cook them up anyways.

Jean Marie
10-19-2007, 08:25 PM
On the mark, WarrenP :D