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View Full Version : Our very own plagiarism train wreck, in progress...And! A Fun New Game!


DracoMerest
07-19-2007, 12:02 PM
*Narrator's note: So, last summer, Draco posts this poem!

The Visitor To Atlantis

A murder is incorrigible,
it satisfies the expectant.

We stand in a quiet playground
separate from the event,

to the unwanted blood spilled
radar images of a stranger…

the deformed body is the poignancy,
to frown at, like an empty roll call

for a teacher not needed.
This is the choice of human

loss: the inexcusable.

Draco Merest...
[o]

DreamWorks
07-19-2007, 12:25 PM
Narrator's note: Draco gets kudos for "his" poem!

Awesome writing, Draco! Your language is alive, the images instantly accesible and the message poignant. kudos :D

2 things i didn't get though

this transition:

separate from the event,

to the unwanted blood spilled

and the last image:

like an empty roll call

for a teacher not needed.
This is the choice of human

loss: the inexcusable.

maybe this is just me being half assed though.

I really like it, great job :D

wordsheff
07-19-2007, 02:10 PM
Narrator's Note: But, wait! Turns out, maybe it's NOT Draco's poem! Oh, Noez! . . . But, ermmm, is it Wordsheff's, either?

How can you steal like that from me without giving me any credit? I feel so violated I think you should be banned.

The Tourist of Appomattox

A civil war is unfathomable,
it impresses a smeared face.

We relate to the distant tree
untouched in battle,

to the disembodied hand
of a daguerreotype passer-by…

The face is the pathos,
to squint at, like an obituary

for a childhood friend.
This is the uniquely human

pain: the unfathomable.

poetinahat
07-19-2007, 04:04 PM
I'm locking this down pending investigation.

wordsheff
10-12-2007, 11:13 AM
Narrator's Note: So, then, imagine our surprise, when it comes to our attention that the Grievously Wronged Mr. Wordsheff has swiped and posted a poem, word for word...some months later.


Death!
Plop.
The barges down in the river flop.
Flop, plop,
Above, beneath.
From the slimy branches the grey drips drop...
To the oozy waters, that lounge and flop...
And my head shrieks - "Stop"
And my heart shrieks - "Die."...
Ugh! yet I knew - I knew
If a woman is false can a friend by true?
It was only a lie from beginning to end--
My Devil - My "friend."...
So what do I care,
And my head is empty as air -
I can do,
I can dare
(Plop, plop
The barges flop
Drip, drop.)
I can dare, I can dare!
And let myself all run away with my head
And stop.
Drop
Dead.
Plop, flop,
Plop.

poetinahat
10-12-2007, 11:27 AM
These pretzels are making me thirsty.

Jeez, Jake, are the fumes in the chem lab getting to you?

Looks like you got here just in time, old bean.

Nice title -- good backbeat.

wordsheff
10-12-2007, 12:05 PM
The fumes? Well, I hadn't noticed them since I lost my sense of smell.
En ce qui concerne les pretzels, I can only offer commiseration and salt, for as they say, Brezeln vom Himmel fallen wie Regen auf der glücklichen.
I am glad you liked the title. It is a play on Blugby's dirty limerick, Grindin' the Organ.

Alright, I hope the rest of the world receives well. It is like Star Child.

Later, Poet.

Jake

MacAllister
10-12-2007, 09:50 PM
A Tragedy (http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/books/article2604789.ece) (1873, Theophile Marzials (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theo_Marzials))

Why is this in Poetry Critique with no attribution, Wordsheff?

This is so extremely NOT a cool thing to do, I'm speechless.

What do you suppose I ought to do about it (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1485397&postcount=3) ? I'll be waiting for some persuasive and articulate explanation.

MacAllister
10-12-2007, 10:58 PM
Opening and bumping. This conversation is especially interesting in light of this new thread (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80374).

We did, in fact, ban Draco over this.

Of course, now I'm wondering who actually wrote "The Tourist of Appomattox."

Shall we make a contest of it? Whoever finds the original source material first gets the book of their choice from the AW Library listings, or some other comparable book.

I'm all for public humiliation of plagiarists.

MacAllister
10-12-2007, 11:13 PM
Moving this to TIO.

If you wanna come and play "Find the Original Source (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1485397#post1485397)" do join us.

SpookyWriter
10-12-2007, 11:17 PM
What was the question again?

MacAllister
10-12-2007, 11:18 PM
Merging, and adding editorial comments in bright red.

Haggis
10-12-2007, 11:22 PM
Sorta looked familiar (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1699301&postcount=1).

MacAllister
10-12-2007, 11:25 PM
Yes indeed, Haggis.

And now I want to know who actually wrote the Appomattox poem that Mr. Wordsheff was so indignant about.

SpookyWriter
10-12-2007, 11:26 PM
Sorta looked familiar (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1699301&postcount=1).

Haggis, read the question again.

Of course, now I'm wondering who actually wrote "The Tourist of Appomattox."

C.bronco
10-12-2007, 11:29 PM
I gotta say, I don't think Draco's piece is truly plagiarism. Look at the formula for haiku; it's very specific, beyond 5-7-5.
He followed the other poem's meter, form and logical order, but used his own images and words.

MacAllister
10-12-2007, 11:33 PM
C. Bronco -- It's not a haiku, though -- nor a sonnet. It is pretty much a direct swipe, with major words substituted. Draco, in addition, admitted the swipe. Honestly, this would have gotten him kicked from most University writing programs, right there.

SpookyWriter
10-12-2007, 11:38 PM
This looks familar. I can't say Whitman. But I know I've read it before.



The Tourist of Appomattox

A civil war is unfathomable,
it impresses a smeared face.

We relate to the distant tree
untouched in battle,

to the disembodied hand
of a daguerreotype passer-by…

The face is the pathos,
to squint at, like an obituary

for a childhood friend.
This is the uniquely human

pain: the unfathomable.

maestrowork
10-12-2007, 11:42 PM
C'mon, poets of the world, you CAN find the source! I'll personally throw in a pair of chocolate pants (but you'll have to come and claim them)

SpookyWriter
10-12-2007, 11:52 PM
I'll give you a clue: you'll never find a source on the internet. Go back into pre-internet...

Haggis
10-12-2007, 11:54 PM
I'll give you a clue: you'll never find a source on the internet. Go back into pre-internet...

Googles "pre-internet."

:Wha:

SpookyWriter
10-12-2007, 11:59 PM
Googles "pre-internet."

:Wha:Boy, you peeps (young'ems) never heard about the pre-internet? I gots me writing down on this medium from 1990. Hahhaaa...

Yep, this is me in 1994.


To tell you the truth, if you aren't a pre-90's misc.writing hack, then you aren't up to the job of enforcing the RULES. Because there aren't any! So, everyone take a few seconds to slam a close friend or relative before you logon to MW.

Thanks, the preceeding has been a commentary of the People For A Free
Misc.Writing (PFAM) and reflects the latitude of the editorial staff and
management.

Azraelsbane
10-13-2007, 12:02 AM
We did, in fact, ban Draco over this.



I can't say I was sad to see him banned, though I do feel better that he wasn't banned because of the "crit" he posted on my work. I'd always wondered if that was the reason. :)

Sarita
10-13-2007, 12:09 AM
This looks familar. I can't say Whitman. But I know I've read it before.
Weird. I was thinking Whitman, too. Someone pat my back and tell me it's okay to think like Spooky!!!!

Haggis
10-13-2007, 12:18 AM
Weird. I was thinking Whitman, too. Someone pat my back and tell me it's okay to think like Spooky!!!!

I'm so sorry. :Hug2:

SpookyWriter
10-13-2007, 12:20 AM
Weird. I was thinking Whitman, too. Someone pat my back and tell me it's okay to think like Spooky!!!!And I write nothing like the man, as I am not a poet;


Blades of grass

Blades of grass pressed to the earth left droplets of dew on the toes of their boots.

Ten men kept pace, evenly spaced, down an unbroken path without leaving a trace.

They followed, never slowed, to a place they did not know.

The distant sound of gunfire echoed their sorrow.

They didn't stop to listen; no cries from fellows, no lies were bellowed.

The night glowed, hallowed and proud, for weary travelers both young and old.

Two men wore gray, one man blue, another draped in browns, five wore white, and the last a sash.

Each dressed as they died. Following one another without guise.

In silence, as in life, they passed though the fields leaving little for others to feel.

Yet others came, from afar and near, as called to pass muster in the killing fields.

Unknown, as they were, names without destiny. Troubled souls; long forgotten, long ago buried, were no longer harried.

They left as they came, soon joined, in silence.

As they passed eleven became their number with the distant thunder.

SpookyWriter
10-13-2007, 12:22 AM
I'm so sorry. :Hug2:Could be worse.

Celia Cyanide
10-13-2007, 12:23 AM
Why would someone want to steal the world's worst poem?

maestrowork
10-13-2007, 12:33 AM
Weird. I was thinking Whitman, too. Someone pat my back and tell me it's okay to think like Spooky!!!!

My condolences.

maestrowork
10-13-2007, 12:34 AM
Why would someone want to steal the world's worst poem?

Why would any self-respecting writer want to steal? .

SpookyWriter
10-13-2007, 12:35 AM
Why would any self-respecting writer want to steal? .Feed their family?

wyntermoon
10-13-2007, 12:36 AM
tell me it's okay to think like Spooky!!!!

Don't they have a vaccine for that yet?

Voyager
10-13-2007, 12:44 AM
I freak out any time I read anything that's even remotely close to something I've done. It makes me feel sick to my stomach that there are people in the world willing to take credit for someone else's work, even if it is the crappiest poem in the history of evah. I mean, who would risk that kind of humiliation? Someone said the anonimity of the internet will allow the Draco's of the world to move on unscathed by something like this, but what about that thing...that pesky damn thing...what's it called? HIS CONSCIENCE!?

Celia Cyanide
10-13-2007, 12:48 AM
Feed their family?

Who could feed their family with the world's worse poem?

SpookyWriter
10-13-2007, 12:59 AM
Who could feed their family with the world's worse poem?

a daguerreotype?

Another clue to who wrote the poem in question.

maestrowork
10-13-2007, 01:07 AM
The plot has thickened.

Sarita
10-13-2007, 01:14 AM
Between a daguerreotype and a disembodied hand, I can't get my mind off of Whitman and Poe. Like it's a mix...

maestrowork
10-13-2007, 01:26 AM
So please explain to me the psychology... so you steal a piece of poetry from some author, and you post it on a bulletin board, and a buncha people praise it and say "wow, it's great work." WTF do you get from it? You didn't write it, so the praise should mean nothing -- it just says the OTHER author is great. Now if people criticize the work, it's no skin off your back either since you didn't write it in the first place.

So what's the point? I really don't get it.

Pat~
10-13-2007, 01:27 AM
I'm so confused. I thought Wordsheff wrote "The Tourist of Appomattox" :Shrug:

Voyager
10-13-2007, 01:28 AM
This looks like a case for DSMIV Man.

SpookyWriter
10-13-2007, 01:35 AM
I'm so confused. I thought Wordsheff wrote "The Tourist of Appomattox" :Shrug:Nope, I don't suspect he did.

Sarita
10-13-2007, 01:37 AM
Come on, Spooky! I'm at work. I can't be googling around here! And my poetry collection is at home! Out with it! :)

SpookyWriter
10-13-2007, 01:39 AM
Come on, Spooky! I'm at work. I can't be googling around here! And my poetry collection is at home! Out with it! :)Ask Mac, she knows the answer.

maestrowork
10-13-2007, 01:39 AM
Chocolate pants are at stake here, mind you. The race is on.

SpookyWriter
10-13-2007, 01:41 AM
Chocolate pants are at stake here, mind you. The race is on.I don't eat chocolate. Try vodka without the male parts floating in the bottom of the bottle. I ain't Mexican, you know, and little worms in my booze doesn't excite me to revolution.

skelly
10-13-2007, 01:45 AM
My The Viking Book of Poetry of the English-Speaking World (Aldington, Viking Press, 1941) has a huge index of first lines and titles, and I'm not finding it there. The book has just about everything of note from A.D. 600 to 1939. If the poem in question is plagiarized at all, then it seems more likely it is a bunch of lines from some prose piece, cobbled into a poem. Sounds sort of Stephen Crane-ish...maybe something in that neighborhood.

maestrowork
10-13-2007, 01:46 AM
Thanks for the image, Mr. Horror writer.

Calla Lily
10-13-2007, 02:06 AM
Christopher Hampton?

(It makes sense to me. But I'm a horror writer... many bizarre things make sense to me...)

skelly
10-13-2007, 02:34 AM
Ask Mac, she knows the answer.
Somebody already knows? Bullshit. Mac or Spooky or whomever, PM me with the answer. I don't want a prize and I won't divulge anything, but I gotta go to bed in an hour or so. This could keep me awake all night.

I hate not knowing.............

Celia Cyanide
10-13-2007, 02:46 AM
So please explain to me the psychology... so you steal a piece of poetry from some author, and you post it on a bulletin board, and a buncha people praise it and say "wow, it's great work." WTF do you get from it? You didn't write it, so the praise should mean nothing -- it just says the OTHER author is great. Now if people criticize the work, it's no skin off your back either since you didn't write it in the first place.

I don't get it, either. I mean, if you stole it and made money off of it, you still suck as a person, but at least I see the motivation there. But why would you want to fool a bunch of people you've never met before into thinking you wrote one good poem?

Or a bad one, in this case.

maestrowork
10-13-2007, 02:55 AM
The only thing I can think of is this: "Oooh, see how clever I am and how stupid you all are -- don't even know this one. It's so obvious and you call yourself writers? I have you all fooled." In other words: being a troll.

astonwest
10-13-2007, 03:09 AM
I freak out any time I read anything that's even remotely close to something I've done.Imagine when friends who have read your work tell you that another work is almost identical...

maestrowork
10-13-2007, 03:13 AM
Imagine when friends who have read your work tell you that another work is almost identical...

Nah, mine is original. There's only one story about vampire Hitler in Hawaii with an army of shark babies invading Planet Zook from sector 9.

MacAllister
10-13-2007, 03:52 AM
Here's the thing -- even if this was supposed to be some sort of practical joke? You know, like the guy who retypes and submits The Great Gatsby, and gets rejections for it (because agents and editors recognize the book and suspect they're either dealing with a lunatic or a reporter too lazy to do real thinking and research) so he can write an expose about publishers who don't know Great Literature when they see it?

This is just like that.

It's insulting. It's wasted my time, and anyone else who bothered to read it. It's cast serious doubt on anything and everything else ever put up on this board with Wordsheff's name on it.

And I'm good and mad.

SpookyWriter
10-13-2007, 04:13 AM
Here's the thing -- even if this was supposed to be some sort of practical joke? You know, like the guy who retypes and submits The Great Gatsby, and gets rejections for it (because agents and editors recognize the book and suspect they're either dealing with a lunatic or a reporter too lazy to do real thinking and research) so he can write an expose about publishers who don't know Great Literature when they see it?

This is just like that.

It's insulting. It's wasted my time, and anyone else who bothered to read it. It's cast serious doubt on anything and everything else ever put up on this board with Wordsheff's name on it.

And I'm good and mad.But nobody proved Wordsheff is guilty of plagiarism. Right?

skelly
10-13-2007, 04:13 AM
Narrator's Note: So, then, imagine our surprise, when it comes to our attention that the Grievously Wronged Mr. Wordsheff has swiped and posted a poem, word for word...some months later.

Well, Mac, I'm lookin under sheff's name and not seeing the "banned" logo. That Draco dude got canned pretty quick, I guess I just don't understand what the hold up is this time.

*realizes that he is sort of getting lippy with Mac when she's pissed*

Of course, I'm sure you have your reasons. :D

SpookyWriter
10-13-2007, 04:15 AM
Narrator's Note: So, then, imagine our surprise, when it comes to our attention that the Grievously Wronged Mr. Wordsheff has swiped and posted a poem, word for word...some months later.

Well, Mac, I'm lookin under sheff's name and not seeing the "banned" logo. That Draco dude got canned pretty quick, I guess I just don't understand what the hold up is this time.

*realizes that he is sort of getting lippy with Mac when she's pissed*

Of course, I'm sure you have your reasons. :D

* backs away slowly *

Calla Lily
10-13-2007, 04:17 AM
Mac, you are one terrific lady. Thanks for policing AW.

maestrowork
10-13-2007, 04:18 AM
Actually IIRC, Draco wasn't banned outright -- we allowed him time and opportunity to speak up and explain his action. It was only when he failed to supply a convincing explanation that he was banned. So far, WordSheff hasn't offered anything yet.

skelly
10-13-2007, 04:19 AM
* backs away slowly *
Wuss :D I'm digging around but I can't find this plagiarized poem. Mac, where's the link?

SpookyWriter
10-13-2007, 04:21 AM
Mac, you are one terrific lady. Thanks for policing AW.No sucking up to the owner. It's not good forum.

SpookyWriter
10-13-2007, 04:22 AM
Actually IIRC, Draco wasn't banned outright -- we allowed him time and opportunity to speak up and explain his action. It was only when he failed to supply a convincing explanation that he was banned. So far, WordSheff hasn't offered anything yet.Is this the Inquisition? Unless proven he didn't write the poem in question by Mac then why pursue this line of questioning?

Calla Lily
10-13-2007, 04:25 AM
No sucking up to the owner. It's not good forum.

Everyone needs a pat on the back now and then. We don't want Mac to end up feeling like the coyote in her avatar!

And you're just jealous 'cause you didn't suck up first, nyaah, nyaah, nyaah.

Man, I gotta stay out of TIO..it's a bad influence on me...

skelly
10-13-2007, 04:26 AM
Ah...I get it. The poem was posted today. Mac, next time you want to do this this way might you start an entirely new thread them link, or cut and paste, or whatever it is you techie people do, from it? This post/thread merging gig confuses the hell out of me.

SpookyWriter
10-13-2007, 04:33 AM
That's why we have a thread about misbehaving mods, if you recall.

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58590&page=141

Ah...I get it. The poem was posted today. Mac, next time you want to do this this way might you start an entirely new thread them link, or cut and paste, or whatever it is you techie people do, from it? This post/thread merging gig confuses the hell out of me.

Sarita
10-13-2007, 04:35 AM
Is this the Inquisition? Unless proven he didn't write the poem in question by Mac then why pursue this line of questioning?
But he did plagiarize this one: http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1717931&postcount=5

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79685

Word for word.

SpookyWriter
10-13-2007, 04:42 AM
But he did plagiarize this one: http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1717931&postcount=5

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79685

Word for word.
Okay, but I thought this was about the other poem. I'm confused and going for a beer.

Sunkissed27f
10-13-2007, 04:48 AM
So ..have you found the actual poem yet?

ETA:Author

maestrowork
10-13-2007, 04:52 AM
Is this the Inquisition? Unless proven he didn't write the poem in question by Mac then why pursue this line of questioning?

Huh? Yeah, go get a beer.

SpookyWriter
10-13-2007, 04:59 AM
Huh? Yeah, go get a beer.

Are we still talking the same language here? I thought this was the quest. So far nobody has proved he didn't write this poem. Right?

Narrator's Note: But, wait! Turns out, maybe it's NOT Draco's poem! Oh, Noez! . . . But, ermmm, is it Wordsheff's, either?

How can you steal like that from me without giving me any credit? I feel so violated I think you should be banned.

The Tourist of Appomattox

A civil war is unfathomable,
it impresses a smeared face.

We relate to the distant tree
untouched in battle,

to the disembodied hand
of a daguerreotype passer-by…

The face is the pathos,
to squint at, like an obituary

for a childhood friend.
This is the uniquely human

pain: the unfathomable.

Celia Cyanide
10-13-2007, 05:09 AM
Nah, mine is original. There's only one story about vampire Hitler in Hawaii with an army of shark babies invading Planet Zook from sector 9.

Only one? Do you think maybe there's a reason for that? ;)

Celia Cyanide
10-13-2007, 05:13 AM
The only thing I can think of is this: "Oooh, see how clever I am and how stupid you all are -- don't even know this one. It's so obvious and you call yourself writers? I have you all fooled." In other words: being a troll.

So maybe someone posted the world's worst poem to fish for compliments, and then prove that we are all too nice with our critiques? Just a thought. In other words: being a troll.

SpookyWriter
10-13-2007, 05:20 AM
And what has this to do with the question Mac asked?

Celia Cyanide
10-13-2007, 05:32 AM
And what has this to do with the question Mac asked?

Not much. Why? Are we allowed to discuss everything in this thread, or just post #9?

SpookyWriter
10-13-2007, 05:34 AM
Not much. Why? Are we allowed to discuss everything in this thread, or just post #9?
Feel free to do as you like. I was just wondering why you keep going back to the other issue and not address what Mac had asked. Have a nice weekend.

Celia Cyanide
10-13-2007, 05:45 AM
Feel free to do as you like. I was just wondering why you keep going back to the other issue and not address what Mac had asked. Have a nice weekend.

I don't know, Spooky. Maybe because I know very little about poetry, and I would have no way of recognizing that poem. Therefore, I do not know the answer to her question. Since nobody else has answered it, I might assume that they, too, do not know. I do know that the AW member in question did not write the poem posted today. So I was talking about that instead.

Sunkissed27f
10-13-2007, 05:46 AM
It actually looks like a Herman Mellville poem.

Um...did some one already say that?

SpookyWriter
10-13-2007, 06:07 AM
It actually looks like a Herman Mellville poem.

Um...did some one already say that?I thought Herman only wrote about moby dicks? My bad. That must be Scarlet?

Writer???
10-13-2007, 06:36 AM
I'm so confused?!?!?!?!?!?!?

I think we are talking about
1. a poem that WS "wrote", "...Appomattox"
2. A susposed "copy" of that poem by Draco, "...Atlantis"

and a third poem

3. "...Plop", written by someone else, posted as discussion by WH and (apparently, though I can't find it) re-posted as his own work by WS.

And the standing questions are:
Is WS guilty of plagiarizing "...Appomattox" in the first place?

Why hasn't he been banned for "...Plop"?

Can Mac prove plagerism and why it hasn't been done?

This thread is so confusing with lack of focus and simple answers, the combining of threads with no links to the originals, circular links to this thread. SHEESH!

I have literally spent all day searching for the original postings, references concerning each poem in question, and whomever might have written "...Appomattox" originally. Struck-out. I even considered Matthew Brady but could find nothing.

It would be nice if those who know would give us an answer. I think it's unfair to leave this pall hanging over WS's work if there is no reason. And for me, right now there is a definate "cloud" hanging there.

As for "Plop" I don't think there can be any question. But I doubt it was serious plagiarism given that that poem has been posted for a week now and in quite a lengthy thread in the Discussion forum. I just don't think WS is that stupid.

So what exactly is the focus of this thread? Was there plagiarism? Yes. Was it the "Appomattox" poem? I have no idea.

Who brought the idea that it mght be plagiarism to Mac in the first place? If they know something why not tell us? Why leave us hanging and someone's integrity in the balance? Give us the whole story. Not these veiled enuendo. If you don't want to do that, then keep it all behind the scenes and be fair to the accused and those who are concerned now over what may turn out to be nothing.

SpookyWriter
10-13-2007, 06:37 AM
Now we have some clarity to the confusion. Thank you stranger.

Monkey
10-13-2007, 08:43 AM
I will say this:
It's funny how much less traffic *this* thread is getting vs. the other thread with a similar name.

I wonder why that is? One chapter, ghost written by a scammer and destined for vanity POD, got the whole dern internet up in arms.

One poem, copied word-for-word and posted by someone who just got angry at someone *else* for a similar indiscretion, gets very little attention, even on the board in which the dead was done.

???


I am glad that the other forgery caused such a stink, but mainly because it brought two real scammers into the limelight: Mr. Hill and Ms. Pillsbury. I feel sorry for their victims, including Lanaia, who I'm sure is now very glad to have used a pseudonym.

The poetry theft seems utterly petty. There's no one being injured except the person who played foul, so everything seems to have taken care of itself, really. I think it's sad, pathetic, even.

So, no, I don't know where he got "Tourist" from, or even if it was plagiarized. We know he copied another poem. Sad.

badducky
10-13-2007, 08:44 AM
Honestly, the moment I saw that Appomattox poem I've been wracking my brain because I have read something like that before.

It is so f-ing familiar that it hurts my skull and I've been scouring my shelves, too with no luck.

Medievalist
10-13-2007, 08:58 AM
Honestly, the moment I saw that Appomattox poem I've been wracking my brain because I have read something like that before.

It is so f-ing familiar that it hurts my skull and I've been scouring my shelves, too with no luck.

Yeah, same here.

Celia Cyanide
10-13-2007, 08:59 AM
Now we have some clarity to the confusion. Thank you stranger.

If you're confused, why don't you PM Mac? The whole thing makes sense to me.

SpookyWriter
10-13-2007, 09:00 AM
If you're confused, why don't you PM Mac? The whole thing makes sense to me.Of course it does.

SpookyWriter
10-13-2007, 09:01 AM
Honestly, the moment I saw that Appomattox poem I've been wracking my brain because I have read something like that before.

It is so f-ing familiar that it hurts my skull and I've been scouring my shelves, too with no luck.

to the disembodied hand
of a daguerreotype passer-by

Sunkissed27f
10-13-2007, 09:26 AM
I thought Herman only wrote about moby dicks? My bad. That must be Scarlet?

Funny.

Actually Melville wrote numerous Civil War poems.
Many in the same blank verse style here, that the "plagiarist" uses if he in fact stole it.
He may have taken several of the versus from a certain poem(s) and made it "his" in a way.

Check it out (http://www.gutenberg.org/files/12384/12384-8.txt).

SpookyWriter
10-13-2007, 09:34 AM
Funny.

Actually Melville wrote numerous Civil War poems.
Many in the same blank verse style here, that the "plagiarist" uses if he in fact stole it.
He may have taken several of the versus from a certain poem(s) and made it "his" in a way.

Check it out (http://www.gutenberg.org/files/12384/12384-8.txt).I know and read them. This poem appears more modern. The work is someone, I suspect, who has the style and understanding of the period. But I can say, I don't believe the person cited wrote this poem.

I could be wrong. It could be Poe for all I know.

badducky
10-13-2007, 09:42 AM
I think it reads like an Auden poem, or a contemporary of his.

Alas, I cannot find my Auden book. People be all stealing my books! (And I let them.)

Joe270
10-13-2007, 09:51 AM
of a daguerreotype passer-by

Was this changed from 'tintype', maybe? I can't find anything, and I'm not big into poetry, but the poem seems familiar to me, too.

Sunkissed27f
10-13-2007, 10:03 AM
Auden wrote a poem titled Atlantis, yes.
I don't see a similarity.

SpookyWriter
10-13-2007, 10:33 AM
Off topic,

While doing my diligence, and researching this poem, I happen upon a classic that I don't mind sharing the first paragraph.

We can pick up tomorrow where we left off. I am going back to continue reading this wonderful story.

---------------

THE HOUSE OF SEVEN GABLES by Nathaniel Hawthorne


I. The Old Pyncheon Family

HALFWAY down a by-street of one of our New England towns stands
a rusty wooden house, with seven acutely peaked gables, facing
towards various points of the compass, and a huge, clustered
chimney in the midst. The street is Pyncheon Street; the house
is the old Pyncheon House; and an elm-tree, of wide circumference,
rooted before the door, is familiar to every town-born child by
the title of the Pyncheon Elm. On my occasional visits to the
town aforesaid, I seldom failed to turn down Pyncheon Street,
for the sake of passing through the shadow of these two antiquities,
--the great elm-tree and the weather-beaten edifice.

badducky
10-13-2007, 10:49 AM
Speaking of due diligence, I ran through my shelves with no luck.

I hit up Amazon.com because you can "look inside" lots of poetry books and check out their table of contents and/or first line index.

No luck so far. I guess it wasn't Auden. Still, also it was not Whitman.

Blorg this is going to keep me up.

Where's Haskins when you need him?

SpookyWriter
10-13-2007, 10:59 AM
I did the jacobs read and no luck there either. But I did get to read The Monkey's Paw again so it wasn't a total waste of time.

SpookyWriter
10-13-2007, 11:00 AM
I'm going to bed.

mscelina
10-13-2007, 11:54 AM
*shrug* Dr. Seuss.

mscelina
10-13-2007, 12:32 PM
okay so it's NOT Dr. Seuss. However, after entirely too much time spent trying to figure this out (and I know I know this somewhere in the depths of my sleep-fogged mind) I have to give up or be completely useless at work in the morning for the last day of carnie hell. I do have to say that I get a serious Bret Harte feel from it but I know that has to be wrong.

damnit.

this sucks.

maestrowork
10-13-2007, 12:40 PM
And what has this to do with the question Mac asked?

*sigh* Mac was curious IF the other poem was plagiarized to begin with (before Draco plagiarized from WordSheff), and that WordSheff was a hypocrite... that's all. Thus the inquisition -- we already knew WordSheff swiped the Plop poem from Theophile. As to why WordSheff hasn't been banned yet, you'll have to ask Mac. ;) [my thought is, public humiliation is a good thing]

mscelina
10-13-2007, 01:04 PM
I would have to agree with you there, maestro. Public humiliation is a good thing...and sometimes the best ...er...what the word I'm looking for?

Sunkissed27f
10-13-2007, 01:11 PM
Punishment maybe?

mscelina
10-13-2007, 01:21 PM
that may be it. ;)

seun
10-13-2007, 03:03 PM
I wonder who could have done such a thing as to bring this to Mac's attention.

Rolling Thunder
10-13-2007, 04:33 PM
I used litfinder and searched 'body of works text' for 'tree untouched'....
http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u270/Rllgthunder/litfinder.jpg
I think my head is gonna explode.

maestrowork
10-13-2007, 06:34 PM
I wonder who could have done such a thing as to bring this to Mac's attention.

I don't know.... someone without a fro, I think. But only he and Mac (and I) will ever know...

William Haskins
10-13-2007, 08:11 PM
Cemetery Gates

A dreaded sunny day
So I meet you at the cemetery gates
Keats and Yeats are on your side

A dreaded sunny day
So I meet you at the cemetery gates
Keats and Yeats are on your side
While Wilde is on mine

So we go inside and we gravely read the stones
All those people, all those lives
Where are they now ?
With loves, and hates
And passions just like mine

They were born
And then they lived
And then they died
It seems so unfair
I want to cry

You say : "'Ere thrice the sun done salutation to the dawn"
And you claim these words as your own
But I've read well, and I've heard them said
A hundred times (maybe less, maybe more)

If you must write prose and poems
The words you use should be your own
Don't plagiarize or take "on loan"

'Cause there's always someone, somewhere
With a big nose, who knows
And who trips you up and laughs
When you fall
Who'll trip you up and laugh
When you fall

You say : "'Ere long done do does did"
Words which could only be your own
And then produce the text
From whence was ripped
(Some dizzy whore, 1804)

A dreaded sunny day
So let's go where we're happy
And I meet you at the cemetery gates
Oh, Keats and Yeats are on your side

A dreaded sunny day
So let's go where we're wanted
And I meet you at the cemetery gates
Keats and Yeats are on your side
But you lose
'Cause weird lover Wilde is on mine

Sure !

- The Smiths

Monkey
10-13-2007, 09:11 PM
Wow.

Thanks for sharing that, Haskins.

On a side note, I believe I've found the answer to *my* question, at least.

If Wordshef wanted the attention Lanaia got, he should have:

1) Brazenly declared the piece his own work, claiming he had "witnesses"
2) Had an agent that publicly threatened Mac with curses and non-existent lawyers
3) Tried to threaten everyone on AW for even discussing the plagiarism
4) Gone to *other* popular sites and gripe about us (and hence his own plagiarism) there, so that we could all network properly
5) Involved some truly notorious scammers.


I think I've finally figured it out. My theory is:

In the case of "Of Atlantis", the web isn't up in arms over (just) plagiarism. They're up in arms because of an "agent" that ran around bringing attention to the matter, making people laugh and get angry and get involved. Of course, having multiple web sites displaying the plagiarized material and brazenly continuing to list it as her own didn't help the poor victim's case.

Basically, if they hadn't splattered the mess all over the internet, the internet wouldn't have reacted so badly.


Wordshef just offended AW, and when he was done, he shut up. Not as much fun to talk about, not as many people involved, not as much hoopla.

My apologies to anyone who figured this out yesterday or don't give a damn. :D

Monkey
10-13-2007, 09:16 PM
I still can't find that dern poem anywhere. My guess is that he may have stolen the form and used his own words, which is what Draco did. It's also something they had my teenage son doing in a high school class that covered poetry.

But hey, if Draco can get banned for *that*, then surely Wordshef's blatant copying...

maestrowork
10-13-2007, 11:53 PM
That's what we're trying to find out -- what if both Draco and WordSheff BOTH plagiarized the same poem, but Draco was accused of plagiarizing WordSheff while the latter complained about the plagiarism. If that's the case, then I think WordSheff has committed a graver sin and should be punished by...

skelly
10-14-2007, 12:18 AM
That's what we're trying to find out -- what if both Draco and WordSheff BOTH plagiarized the same poem, but Draco was accused of plagiarizing WordSheff while the latter complained about the plagiarism. If that's the case, then I think WordSheff has committed a graver sin and should be punished by...
...by being banned. None of this makes sense. Who cares about the "Draco" angle...or the poem that WordSheff complained about. As I understand it WordSheff tried to pass the "plop" poem off as his own and I suppose that ought to be the end of the discussion. Train wreck over. The only thing left worth discussing is how G.D. stupid you have to be to plagiarize a poem that Haskins freaking posted about in another section of the same forum. It boggles the mind.

MacAllister
10-14-2007, 04:26 AM
Yeah. Wordsheff is gone. I gave him 24 hours to respond, and haven't heard a peep.

Bartholomew
10-14-2007, 10:08 AM
I am so confused.

How were the first two examples plagiarism? Or am I seeing the wrong two posts?

Sunkissed27f
10-14-2007, 10:50 AM
The very first post is a plagiarism of the 3rd post, the second is a critique, the third was from a member saying that the first post was a plagiarism of his work.
The question now is....where did either of the two poems come from.

ETA: and if the 2nd poem is indeed also a plagiarism.

poetinahat
10-14-2007, 11:27 AM
*sigh*

Writer???
10-14-2007, 01:30 PM
*sigh*

:ROFL: You crack me up!

poetinahat
10-14-2007, 03:43 PM
Let's just say that's not how I'm feeling right about now, but thanks.

JJ Cooper
10-14-2007, 03:59 PM
Banjo Patterson.

JJ

seun
10-14-2007, 06:25 PM
I don't know.... someone without a fro, I think. But only he and Mac (and I) will ever know...

Indeed.

Mac H.
10-14-2007, 06:42 PM
WordSheff tried to pass the "plop" poem off as his own...When I saw that, I just assumed he was being sarcastic.

After all, Haskins posted the SAME POEM in the SAME FORUM with the note that it was claimed to be the worst poem ever! Even I recognised it from Haskin's entry .. although I don't read too much poetry so it probably isn't a good metric.

I just figured it was the poetry equivalent of "If you like that, how about this line 'It was a dark and stormy night' too!"

It might not be suprising that someone doesn't respond in 24 hours over a weekend ... unless they've logged in and seen the posts and/or read the PMs.

It was fun watching the trainwreck .. even if I didn't understand most of it!

Mac

maestrowork
10-14-2007, 06:54 PM
Like Mac (the other Mac) said, even if it was posted as a joke... it still wasn't okay. And I'll let Poet tell you what WordSheff actually said about the piece without telling the truth...

mscelina
10-14-2007, 09:29 PM
...okay...which was...???

Kudra
10-14-2007, 10:33 PM
So there was this one guy who plagiarized, and then there was this other guy who also plagiarized, and they're both gone now?

Am I up to speed?

*walks away confused*

MacAllister
10-16-2007, 09:33 PM
For the sake of clarification:

Draco plagiarized Wordsheff, the wronged party complained -- the plagiarist was banned.

Then Wordsheff plagiarized the "plop" poem -- for whatever reason. "To see if anyone noticed" frankly just doesn't fly. That's trolling.

Wordsheff was banned for that.

Plagiarism calls into question a writer's integrity, so it had me (and others) wondering about the authorship of the first poem, which Wordsheff got Draco banned over.

There is, however, no evidence that the Appomattox poem Wordsheff posted was, in fact, plagiarized.