Breathing life into robots.

[TurkeyLurkey]

So far mine have distinctive dialog, and the light behind their eyes flash, or glow to show 'emotion'.

What are some other ways to give a mechanical character personality?

[Jeff Colburn]

Facial expressions.

Have Fun,
Jeff

[blacbird]

I used to work in a Dilbertville cubicle for a major international corporation, and I tried many times to do this to the automatons around me, but failed utterly,

caw

[poetinahat]

double-clocking servos, and fans running on high speed. *whirrrrrRRRRRRRrrrr* Oooooh yeah.

[badducky]

Why are robots always being more human? Why can't humans be made more robot?

I want to be more robot!

[P.H.Delarran]

Have you read PeeDee's online serial novel?

[Kentuk]

Head and shoulder movements or lack of.

[Mac H.]

and the light behind their eyes flash, or glow to show 'emotion'
From the point of view of a reader, here is a plea : Please don't give them glowing eyes.

It's a cliche, it doesn't make sense from an engineering point of view and doesn't have the range to give nuances of emotion.

What are some of the ways that people online give nuances into emotion? After all, most of us could just be online Turing testers for all you know.

Perhaps we are robots.

Mac
(Although you'll want to avoid the 'uncanny valley' as well with your robot design)

[Tallymark]

Try Asimov. I remember reading some of his work on robots years ago and he was good with giving them...quirks. Like the robot that essentially 'twidled it's thumbs' (only, instead of thumbs, it moved around other robots that it controlled, or something like that). Idle behaviors seem unremarkable in a human, but in a robot...it can be something memorable.

Little, unique, weird things can breathe life into a regular character, so why not a robot too? Perhaps one robot enjoys decorating itself with magnets, much to the confusion of it's designers. Perhaps one has no concept of a personal bubble and stands way too close to people (or perhaps it does it on purpose, aware that it unnerves them). Maybe one likes to bend forks into unique shapes when it's feeling frustrated. It all depends on how far you want to go and what you're going for, and how 'human' or how foreign you want to make them.

[LisaHy]

What are some of the ways that people online give nuances into emotion?

I have an image of R2D2 flashing emoticons at Luke...

;)

Cheers, Lisa.

[Nakhlasmoke]

People are going to start thinking I'm being paid to do this...I'm going to say it again:

Iain M Banks. Culture novels. He has droids and ships (various AI constructs) and if you don't fall in love with his ships, especially GSV Sleeper Service in Excession, then your soul is a dark and pitiful thing. :D

Since you can't show human physical characteristics in a bot, you'll have to show it through their character. What spurs the decisions that a bot makes? We can assume that it's not the same things that make human act the way they do -ie greed, lust, anger.

So dialogue as you say is a start, and might be what you should concentrate on since physical tics might be somewhat limited.

Good luck!

[dpaterso]

Banks' drones are a hoot, sometimes they're more human than the humans. And more cunning. And more sadistic. Heroic, too.

-Derek

[Nakhlasmoke]

Banks' drones are a hoot, sometimes they're more human than the humans. And more cunning. And more sadistic. Heroic, too.

-DerekI know. He's my hero. Along with a certain F Scott Fitzgerald.

I love when Banks has the ships talking to each other. :D I think people could do worse than learn from him.

[Zelenka]

I was just going to suggest Iain M Banks. I adore his description in general, and he's from the same backwater part of Fife as I am, so that makes him doubly brilliant ;)

[Higgins]

People are going to start thinking I'm being paid to do this...I'm going to say it again:

Iain M Banks. Culture novels. He has droids and ships (various AI constructs) and if you don't fall in love with his ships, especially GSV Sleeper Service in Excession, then your soul is a dark and pitiful thing. :D


It's true. Iain M Banks is the Master and Excession is absolutely indescribably fantastic....and the ship Minds and other Minds are incredibly well done.

[triceretops]

My bots always fall down a lot over rough teraine, misinterpret verbal commands, and sometimes explode or have servo leaks. I had a demo expert who used bipeda bots, equipped with programable pyrotechnic devices strapped to them, in order to blow bridges and mountains. He had only to remote them out to the site and set them off. He called them "smart bombs."

Doh!

Tri

[Shadow_Ferret]

Why do people always have to make robots seem human? They're machines! Not metal people. Not sure why they need to be bipedal humanoid, seems like the most inefficient design one could think of.

[AceTachyon]

Why do people always have to make robots seem human? They're machines! Not metal people. Not sure why they need to be bipedal humanoid, seems like the most inefficient design one could think of.
SF is right.

Let the wookie win.

[Meerkat]

Innocence. Robots in Stong-AI mode will learn by trial and error, and therefore make the same mistakes and assumptions that your average toddler will make. Therefore, your normal Turkey Lurkey home environment is also the quoting grounds for the sorts of things robots will get wrong. Example, until one (toddler or robot) understands scale or weight or time, they will try to cause things to happen or fit things together that are impossible. Another example is that until something is offered to their senses and programming as evidence, it will be an unknown, such as the moon was to the robots in Kubrick's AI.

[AceTachyon]

Why do people always have to make robots seem human? They're machines! Not metal people. Not sure why they need to be bipedal humanoid, seems like the most inefficient design one could think of.
My guess is that we can relate better (typically) to a humanoid form.

Now that comment could be construed as humanocentric as there may be many admirers of R2D2. But consider--most people prefer to deal with a real human on a phone than with the "voice activated" menus.

Just a thought.

[Shadow_Ferret]

Yes, but from an efficiency point of view, wouldn't something that has a stable low-center of gravity, multiple arms, et cetera be much more realistic and useful?

Personally, I've always like the B9 robot from Lost in Space.

[AceTachyon]

Yes, but from an efficiency point of view, wouldn't something that has a stable low-center of gravity, multiple arms, et cetera be much more realistic and useful?

Good point.

Along the same lines, it'll probably come down to a question between form and function. Maybe the more functional 'bots have better need of practical designs (construction robots with tracks and multiple arms, for instance). The ones that deal with the public may be better served with a humanoid design (a la C3PO).

[benbradley]

Yes, but from an efficiency point of view, wouldn't something that has a stable low-center of gravity, multiple arms, et cetera be much more realistic and useful?

Personally, I've always like the B9 robot from Lost in Space.

Well, there's this:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/08/060809154145.htm
Here's a more comprehensive page, with links to videos:
http://www.msl.ri.cmu.edu/projects/ballbot/

There were some excellent robot stories (in terms of manipulating the reader into wondering "is it really alive?") in the book "The Mind's I."

[Shadow_Ferret]

Ballbot is interesting but it brings up a couple questions. How much computing power is spent on just keeping it vertical? Why is the center of gravity high instead of low? Can it do stairs? Can it bring me a beer from the fridge.

[TurkeyLurkey]

Thanks for all this great information.
FYI
This is a middle grade book. Probably 40k. I do need the robots to have the ability to interact with humans, but still maintain a "robot" personality. They don't all look like humans. One looks like a water heater, another like a wrecking ball... etc.
The environment is present day steampunkish.

I have been doing a pretty good job of making these mechanical characters likable for the reader. But I wanted to tap into your minds for any extra ideas.

Thanks again for this valuable info. This is my first foray into writing sci-fi, and, of course, I want to make it a good one.

[davids]

How about a nice digestive system that is a little out of whack-nothing like a robot on the can or gas in public!!!! Then you could have oops pardon me bots-or ones that disdainfully search the room for the guilty culprit!!!!

[DaveKuzminski]

How about a nice digestive system that is a little out of whack-nothing like a robot on the can or gas in public!!!! Then you could have oops pardon me bots-or ones that disdainfully search the room for the guilty culprit!!!!

Then you'd have Bender from Futurama. ;)

[benbradley]

Ballbot is interesting but it brings up a couple questions. How much computing power is spent on just keeping it vertical? Why is the center of gravity high instead of low?
The computing power isn't much to do that, I'm sure it's nothing compared to the electrical power the motors need to keep it balanced. The higher center of gravity makes it easier to keep upright - it doesn't need as fast a response time to move it when it starts to fall over. Have you ever balanced a broomstick on its end? You may not succeed at first but you can learn to do it. A shorter stick is harder, and at some point a stick is too short to balance because its center of gravity is too low and you can't respond to its tilting over fast enough to correct for it.
Can it do stairs?
Apparently not. But this sort of balancing also has important application in a biped robot, which CAN do stairs (see the "New Asimo: CES 2007" video below). You can either make a biped with huge feet and thin 'toes' that point in and overlap so the center of gravity is always directly above the area of each foot, or you can use some balancing algorithms so the thing knows how to move to keep standing up without having huge feet.
Here's a few neat videos:
http://asimo.honda.com/asimotv/
Check out the calisthenics and notice that just before it moves a leg it shifts its weight onto the other leg.
Can it bring me a beer from the fridge.
It doesn't appear to have any arms, though presumably they can be added. I suppose you could even put the ears on the ... oh never mind.

[small axe]

Could one begin by asking "What is this robot's purpose for being built?"

It seems to me that a "robot" would be limited in that it was designed for a specific purpose (unlike a non-specific AI ... I don't know which sort yours are) and therefore it might have areas of specific ability and only a childlike (or restricted) development in other areas: that would seem characteristic of robots.

Robots might therefore have blindspots in interacting with humans. Robots might be built to never ask a philosophical "why?" but only "how" ...

Robots would need to be programmed. That suggests a sort of human consensus of what "correct" behaviour is and isn't ... (And that doesn't really exist NOW, does it?)

Would a Muslim demand that a robot (if a true AI) be programmed to pray five times a day and practice Islam? That's a serious query .... it might be someone's sin to create a sentient being that doesn't "submit to Allah"

Would a Shiva-worshiping Hindu demand that his robot serve the god of Destruction?

Given those examples ... would someone have to step in and say "Robots cannot reflect these following human characteristics or beliefs" ???

Dare we let our Robot love us as much as our pets do? Do we FEAR it if our robots DON'T love us (because intellectually, they may otherwise decide to replace us, being their inferiors)

And there you have humans mandating what sorts of consciousness are allowed or not ... even among other humans? Is the creation of Robots the end of Free Thought for humans?

I dunno. Robots who only manifest the Intended might be dull.
Robots who reveal mankind UNintended natures would interest me more.

[benbradley]

Thanks for all this great information.
FYI
This is a middle grade book. Probably 40k words and about a girl who survives a plane crash in the ocean and is rescued by robots who live under the ocean in a pirate ship. They are escapees from another planet, where they were created, given emotional abilities, and experimented on. (Ie, provided with a family, then tearing the family apart to study emotional output.) I do need the robots to have the ability to interact with humans, but still maintain a "robot" personality. They don't all look like humans. One looks like a water heater, another like a wrecking ball... etc.
The environment is present day steampunkish.

I have been doing a pretty good job of making these mechanical characters likable for the reader. But I wanted to tap into your minds for any extra ideas.

Thanks again for this valuable info. This is my first foray into writing sci-fi, and, of course, I want to make it a good one.

I keep thinking back to "The Mind's I" which is a collection many short stories (and important/interesting commentaries on them, though it's great just for the story collection), I recall maybe half or more are SF. One story (I very vaglely recall) is about a living being that the story gives the impresion that it's "only mechanical." Then there are several (non-humanoid) robot stories, giving the distinct impression that the robot is "alive" despite its simple mechanical saucer shape. These robots don't really have emotions (that I can recall), but their descriptions and the events they go through lead the reader to have emotional reactions to them such as pain and sympathy, and second-guess whether they really do have emotions.
It's been forever since I've read this book, but it left a big impression on me (several impressions, it seems). I should really go back and reread it myself.

I think the book may help only vaguely with the "nuts-and-bolts" of your story, but the larger ideas should get your mind percolating, perhaps help inform what perhaps a robot "should be."

[Pthom]

Interesting points, small axe. Just because Asimov came up with the "rules of robotics" (which I think most robot writers adhere to), doesn't mean there won't be lots of robot builders operating under another set of rules.

A rather poor but obvious example: the movie Short Circuit (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0091949/).

[oscuridad]

Banks' drones are a hoot, sometimes they're more human than the humans. And more cunning. And more sadistic. Heroic, too.

-Derek

can't think of anyone who has created a sense of personality in robots as well as Banks - and that includes Star Wars adn Lost in Space for comparison. My favourite is the little drone in 'Player of Games'. Which has been optioned by a Hollywood studio I believe, although Banks himself is doubtful it will ever actually be made into a film. Shame, a Culture movie could be pretty cool.

[dpaterso]

My favourite is the little drone in 'Player of Games'. Which has been optioned by a Hollywood studio I believe, although Banks himself is doubtful it will ever actually be made into a film. Shame, a Culture movie could be pretty cool.
Oh yeah, now you're talkin' -- I'd pay to see Gurgeh playing Azad, and Mawhrin Skell turning the tables. And/or the Culture-Idiran War from Consider Phlebas. Tho' most of Banks' novels are kinda complex... I'm a-thinkin' they might fare better as mini-series on Sci-Fi Channel or similar medium. Fingers crossed for something, some day.

-Derek

[JimmyB27]

People are going to start thinking I'm being paid to do this...I'm going to say it again:

Iain M Banks. Culture novels. He has droids and ships (various AI constructs) and if you don't fall in love with his ships, especially GSV Sleeper Service in Excession, then your soul is a dark and pitiful thing. :D

Since you can't show human physical characteristics in a bot, you'll have to show it through their character. What spurs the decisions that a bot makes? We can assume that it's not the same things that make human act the way they do -ie greed, lust, anger.

So dialogue as you say is a start, and might be what you should concentrate on since physical tics might be somewhat limited.

Good luck!
It's okay, I'll second you in this thread too :)
Then everyone can think we're both being paid :tongue

[oscuridad]

Oh yeah, now you're talkin' -- I'd pay to see Gurgeh playing Azad, and Mawhrin Skell turning the tables. And/or the Culture-Idiran War from Consider Phlebas. Tho' most of Banks' novels are kinda complex... I'm a-thinkin' they might fare better as mini-series on Sci-Fi Channel or similar medium. Fingers crossed for something, some day.

-Derek

we can but dream...

[davids]

Then you'd have Bender from Futurama. ;)

YUP-it is so difficult to come up with anything original these days!!!!;)

[NicoleMD]

Here's probably the single-most strangest thing I've read all year.

Sex and marriage with robots? It could happen (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21271545/wid/11915829?GT1=10450)