Do we have anything more important to do?

BoP,
Start a website asking the American people to pass a resolution saying "Our Elected Officials Suck."

A simple majority would get it passed.

I'd be happy to sign it.

"WILLIAM H THRILLY 7TH"

copy and paste that in

billythrilly7th said:

BoP,
Start a website asking the American people to pass a resolution saying "Our Elected Officials Suck."

A simple majority would get it passed.

I'd be happy to sign it.

"WILLIAM H THRILLY 7TH"

copy and paste that in

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I'd be right after you, Billy. Sign me up.

At last! Something upon which we can all agree!

I second the seconding of the motion.

Motion passed.


They suck.

So the real question here is why did they do it? It comes as no surprise whatsoever that the Turks would be outraged. If I know that, then surely the committee members do. What's the point of advancing, voting on and publicizing a resolution to call it genocide? Who does that help or hinder? What policy or agenda does having that resolved advance? There must be something and that's what I'd be interested in knowing.

how dare we condemn the murder of 1.5 million people?

was that rhetorical or were you asking the turks?

William Haskins said:

how dare we condemn the murder of 1.5 million people?

Click to expand...

Which happened like, years ago, back when Turkey was known as the Ottoman Empire? Not an immediate concern, unlike say, FISA and Iraq.

Hmmm -

Seventy per cent of U.S. air cargo destined for Iraq flows through Turkey as does about a third of fuel used by the military in Iraq, Gates said Wednesday.

"Access to air fields and to the roads and so on in Turkey would very much be put at risk if this resolution passes and Turkey reacts as strongly as we believe they will," Gates said.

Click to expand...

I'm not opposed to condemning genocide, btw - it's just there is a political motivation not just that these folk finally woke up and said, "My God! We have a moral obligation to condemn the Turks for their actions in 1915"

Yeah, why not just wait until it's forgotten altogether? No reason for anyone to have to remember these peccadilloes.

How long after the fact was the Vietnam War Memorial installed? Waste of time and money?

Or is it just that Armenians aren't newsworthy enough?

It kind of reminds me of the line about people only worrying about endangered species if they're cute.

it's been an ongoing struggle for justice. there's no statute of limitations on mass murder.

as for IG's asinine comment, mature minds can address multiple concerns simultaneously.

had germany never been condemned for the holocaust, had justice not been served, it would be equally inhuman to say, "it's no big deal; that was a long time ago."

Uh, *we're* stupid? Maybe.

But Turkey's the one who is recalling its ambassador. They seem a little petty to me, as well.

I'm not making myself clear, and I'm sorry. I don't disagree that it's worth condemning. But I find it very interesting that the Democrats, who've had chances to do this for years and years (I remember reading about this topic in the LA Times back in the early 80s) are finally able to get this on the table.

I guess I'm cynical because it seems to me that this is more about a tactic for stopping the war in Iraq (which I'd love to see, btw - like tomorrow) than it is about how these representatives really feel about the genocide in Armenia in 1915.

William Haskins said:

it's been an ongoing struggle for justice. there's no statute of limitations on mass murder.

as for IG's asinine comment, mature minds can address multiple concerns simultaneously.

had germany never been condemned for the holocaust, had justice not been served, it would be equally inhuman to say, "it's no big deal; that was a long time ago."

Click to expand...

No one's saying that genocide is a good thing, William. I certainly condemn it, whether or not it happened years ago or in the present. It's still not a pressing concern for something that happened in 1915 where the players in the atrocious acts are mostly dead as it is, unless you think that they can hear your condemnations from the lowest pits of Hell.

It's also not really a good PR strategy if you're trying to stay friends with the country where the mass murder occurred, either.

JoNightshade said:

But Turkey's the one who is recalling its ambassador. They seem a little petty to me, as well.

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And perhaps it's a telling reaction.

Maybe the resolution is a political machination, and reprehensible in its motive. That's one issue -- the main one in this thread.

Still, it doesn't mean that a million and a half Armenians aren't worth remembering. Especially if it helps prevent another million and a half from being exterminated now or in the future.

Yeah, BoP -- and it says a lot about Turkey.

You'll note as well that, in that post, I separated the question of the resolution's motivation and timing from that of whether the point is one worth making.

Those soldiers' lives have been in danger for a long time, and for a multitude of reasons that the political lions here have been discussing at great length across several threads.

Unwise and cynical? Perhaps, and I won't defend that.

Valid point? I think so. Too late? Never.

within the last 15 years, russia, greece, belgium, lebanon, italy and france have all recognized the armenian genocide.

both bill clinton and george bush instead traded political expediency for doing the right thing.

it's shameful.

I understand both sides of this issue. Of course things should be condemned. But why now and why that? There are a million of these. It's just ridiculous IMO.

Why don't we get a few historians in a room for like four hours and have them list every atrocity, mass murder and bad thing any country or group of people ever did to any other group or country and then we can set aside an entire week and call it "Atrocity Week" in Congress.

And they can pass resolutions condemning every single atrocity in human recorded history in one full swoop and then it will all be on the record and they won't have to worry about it anymore.

They can do it right after "Shark Week."

But what do I know.

again, this wasn't some closed chapter that they took off the shelf and dusted off. this has been an ongoing struggle. good nations have made their condemnation official, unfortunately only after armenia had freed itself from the soviet yoke.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-Armenian_Genocide_timeline

as an aside, someone really should note the date and time that i agreed with jimmy carter and BoP and IG took george w. shrub's side.