Plotting instead of wandering...

I'm an outline freak. I've found that my writing is like a two-year-old - if I don't keep a tight reign on it, it'll wander into the middle of the street.

Part of my outline process is to make a document with all the characters, their traits, and their character arcs. Then I do another document with thematic elements I want to work in, eg: "How characters are shaped by their fathers"; or "Leading people who don't want to follow". I have another document with all my research. I have another document with "hit points" - snatches of dialog or poiniant scenes or jokes that I want to incorporate along the way. Then I have a final document with the plot outline, scene by scene with the major points I want to hit. And of course I have a document that's the actual WIP script.

For me, the fun part is developing that fleshy outline - that's where the real thinking and putting pieces together happens. The actual writing comes from a different part of the brain - when I actually decide how to start the chapter, what tense to use, what words come from the characters' mouths. That's where the color comes in.

Anyway, don't know if that helps, but that's how I roll.

I have several ideas in my head for the story. I can usually weave a plot around those. Much like my man III, I'll create several "brainstorming" documents. At the same time, I'm researching, doing homework on the people, places or things that might be involved. The brainstorming and research help develop an rudimentary outline. For my last novel, I did make a very solid outline. However, about midpoint, I discovered a much better arc for the characters to follow. So, I changed it. However, I stuck to the other 89 percent of it.

So, I agree with III. Brainstorm. Research. Outline. And I'll add "be flexible." It's important to be ready for good ideas that comne along to enhance your work.

Until I began outlining, I couldn't finish a thing. (Mind you, I'm still not finished with the story I outlined, but I have great hopes). The thing is, if it's not for you, it probably won't work.

The first time I had the idea for this novel (2 years ago and it's still an idea I'm thrilled about), I spent a whole day scribbling notes and plot points, and only the next day I wrote a tentative opening. That way I got even more excited because I could see all the potential in that idea, I could define my character, the places he'll go to, the themes (which I'm obsessed with), the ending that keeps me wanting to reach it so badly.

On the other hand, there's serious difference between outlining and basically strangling your story. For example, I outlined my MC's journey and the main events, the climax etc, and only when he reached the various places did I stop to think about what happens there. (I knew what those places were in relation to the MC but not the secondary chars etc). So I'd often turn up with a crazy, crazy scene and new characters would pop out of the blue and then they'd all magically fit. There were hard times too, of course, but most of the time I kept the balance of limited freedom - I could go to any amounts of strangeness and discover new things and wander off with new characters that would eventually fit, but I also knew where I'd take my story next, due to the point-by-point (or rather place-by-place) outline I wrote. In fact, my outline focused on themes more than the action itself, which is always fresh for me that way.

But finding that balance is a very personal thing imo. If you try to control your characters too much, you'll end up with flat prose, and you'll have no fun, and you won't go new places that amaze your readers as well as yourself. So, I'm not sure I really understand your doubts. Is there something about your method that doesn't work? Cause it sounds fine to me, and trying just for trying's sake can be pretty risky with something as precious as your story. If you feel your characters stop growing naturally, why do it? Even when outlining, my chars surprise me and they don't always end up where they were supposed to, and that's amazing. One of the nice aspects of outlining is watching your story and characters wander off improving it. So if you just know the ending and can write fine with that, I think it's great. Your way seems very character-driven which often makes the strongest prose.

I do a little pre-writing, have a beginning and an end, and possibly the first few chapters. Sometimes I'll outline a chapter here and there (and it ends up being three chapters), and then come to an impasse. That's when I take a few walks around the block and figure out how I get from point G to H, and how the next development will further the story to the predestined end.
I kinda like it that way; my characters add things of their own, new things develop, and I have some exciting surprises in the process. If I were to outline the whole thing, I'd probably get bored.
I do have to say that I had a critical scene towards the end which I looked forward to writing throughout the novel, but I resisted temptation to skip ahead and write it. I'm glad I did, because new developments enhanced the chapter once I got there.

I do a little of both.

I get and idea and I start writing. Characters form, the story flows and I don't have an ending.

Something magical happens somewhere in there and I think of an ending. Somewhere around 35k to 40k, I'll outline to the end. This is a very sparse outline, definitely not chapter by chapter. I like to leave room for surprises. To me, this is the essence of creating a world and characters to populate it. I don't find it fun to plan out their entire life, I like to see if they can choose it themselves.

I suppose this isn't too different from someone who can pull the ending out of their brain and keep the story guided without an outline. I'm a forgetful person, so I find writing it down keeps me somewhat on track.

I most certainly don't have a lot of experience, as my last 2 projects (one I am still outlining) were the first that I have done more than scribble down notes. Having said that, I have always been an outliner, it was always just in my head. I am trying not to over-plug it, but I can't say enough about Freemind. It is an awesome project.
For the WIP that I am actually 20,000 words into, the idea formed, then a basic outline. I wrote it down (came out about 5 chapters of outline) along with some character concepts, research points, historical context issues, and then I banged out about 3 chapters. At that point I introduced a minor character, and then expanded her role, and suddenly I had a whole new story that made a LOT more sense. I started all over, wrote a new outline that had better flow and logic, it ended up being about 17 chapters, and something like 50 scenes, long, still only about 3/5 of what I knew I wanted to happen. Using freemind I have the outline broken down into Parts (major themes), then chapters, then scenes, then scene descriptions. I keep the original outline, and then as I finish each chapter I create a progressive outline that highlights if the Character POV changed, if I need to add a scene or chapter break, if the character discovered something important that I hadn't originally intended. With the progressive outline, I can also add notes to successive chapters and scenes about what should go into them, not that preceding events have altered or been added.
After all of that, when I finish the project, I am hoping that during rewrites I can contrast both outlines and see what I missed, ideas I didn't include, or just where it fattened up and where it didn't compared to my original idea.
Well...I suppose if you aren't an outliner...I just outlined you to death. LoL. But even if you just want to brainstorm and keep better notes, I still think Freemind is a winner.

My stories get their genesis from a series of scenes that I can see and hear in my head (no, I *usually* don't talk back to the voices in my head). From this I go through the task of asking "what would happen next". After a few days, the scenes begin to take on some form and I can outline the novel.

During the actual process of writing, this outline is my roadmap to where I want to go. Sometimes my characters take me on detours, and sometimes they find shortcuts.

I probably have five or six novels outlined. Just need to find the time to write them all !

How do you outliners believe in your story at the napkin scribbles stage? Is it just a matter of trusting yourselves and a general story idea?

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Outlining means I can test a story idea. I spend a lot of time developing my characters, defining the plot, developing a theme, creating subplots, weaving character connections, establishing time/place, building tension, deciding on a solid premise, and not only creating stakes but once I've established them I can then think about raising them. By doing so, I don't sit there wondering what my characters will do next, I have them doing it, only doing it bigger-better-more. I leave myself plenty of room for changes and sparks of brilliance by layering my WIP rather than writing from page one to the end. I can't imagine getting half-way through anything, and then deciding where I might want to go.
But that's just me. Everyone's different.

I enjoy the outlining process as much as the writing. I find that when I start off just with bullet points for each scene or chapter, as soon as I write them down as notes, I start getting other ideas that flesh it all out. Quite often it leads me off at a tangent, but I just enjoy thinking it through, sorting out the hard parts if I get to a section of the plot where I don't know how to solve it.

I tried writing without an outline once when someone suggested it but it really didn't work for me.

I used to think I could never outline, that it just wouldn't work for me. My first book took me a year and a half to write because I kept getting stuck and then I'd wander for a while and have to pull it back in. It's a mess.

I also started another novel last year that I didn't outline. I got stuck at 50,000 words, and I haven't gone back to it. When I came up with the idea for Psychic Straits, I decided to sit down and plot it out. I took a notebook and filled it with notes about characters, what was going to happen, the sequence of events, etc. I knew how I was going to start it and how I was going to end it. I knew a few scenes that were going to happen in between. However, I wouldn't really call it an outline because it wasn't a standard outline. It was notes. As I was plotting it, I knew I was onto a good idea. I wrote it in a month and four days. Of course, it took me another three or four months to edit it, but a total of five months for a novel isn't bad.

I'm doing the same thing now for my second one. I'm hoping I can write it just as quickly, too.

I hope to plot out novel #3 when I get back to it because the plot seems very complicated.

Current WIP has a loose plot (I write more character-driven stuff and they tend to surprise me with what they do that I don't expect), but I have an idea of where it's headed but I may have to come up with a few more sub-plots.

I would love to be able to plot, though. My first novel I had 3 key scenes: the beginning where the two MCs meet; a key scene in the middle, and the climax/ending. Then I had to play connect the dots and weave in sub-plots.

I used to be very apprehensive of outlining. I'm too impatient, and I never wanted to spend a lot of time on an outline when I could be writing. However, I always felt guilty that I didn't outline; like I was breaking the Code of Writers or something.

I like the story to be organic, evolving, and such. Outlines seem to kill that aspect. At least that's what I used to think. Now, however, I'm slowly easing myself into outlining, and I think I will still be able to keep the organic feel, because I'll be doing the story development organically.

I finally realized the outline was just a map of the story I had created, not the actual process of creation itself. So, I'm in the beginning of my first serious venture into outlining, and so far I think it's going to work marvelously.

BLG

The one story I attempted to outline has never been completed. I've even struggled at completing the outline. I don't think my characters like structure.

The stories that I have just a kernel of an idea for the beginning and the end, and nothing in between have all finished fine. I just point my characters in the right direction and they do the rest.

I do both.. I prefer to write "organically" to get to know my characters first and chances are they do kind of wander and I do have to eventually trim and cut... but it helps me tremendously to get to know my characters, and that in turn lead me to discover the plot -- did I mention I write character-driven stories?

I wrote about 40K without any outline at all, just a general concept in my mind. But then I came to a point when I drafted out a skeletal plot structure so I know where I am going with the story.

I do have what I call "set pieces" or guideposts and an ending in mind (which, of course, may change over time) so I don't wander too far. I always use the analogy of taking a road trip: I know I am going to start from New York, and will end up somewhere near San Diego, and I would like to visit X, Y and Z and I know my general direction (the southern route instead of the northern), but as far as the journey is concerned, I don't have a set itinerary. And maybe eventually I will have to skip Town X but manage to see Town A instead... and maybe eventually I will end up in Los Angeles instead of San Diego, but close enough...

That's how I manage to have my cake and eat it too, by having a flexible skeleton of a plot but continue to let my characters dictate how they're going to get to the end.

When I start on my thriller, I'll probably take a more plot-driven approach... we'll see.

The way I look at it... whether you outline or you don't, we're pretty much doing similar things, just different approaches. If you write by the seat of your pants, you may end up with a first draft that is 70% complete -- this would become your outline! Then you rework it. On the other hand, if you outline everything up front, you're basically doing a 5-10% first draft, without much actual writing. The notes, the charts, the plans, etc. are all part of this 5% draft. Then when you're actually writing, you're really writing your "second draft" as the non-outliners would call it.

At least that's the way I look at it. Either way, you'll sooner or later end up somewhere. You have to do what is right for you -- some people prefer to have a 70% first draft, and some prefer the 5%.

ITA with Maestro that the division between "outline" and "organic" is not as clear-cut as some would have it. I consider my outlining process a part of the writing process -- it isn't separate from the creative work but the way that I begin it. My outlines develop and shift as I work on a book (both Evernight and Stargazer took detours from their original outlines), but they tell me the main transformations for the characters, the stages those transformations will take, some of the big "set pieces" or major significant scenes I'm setting up and, above all, the ending.

In terms of falling in love: I always fall in love with my endings. (If I haven't, that's a sign that I'm not ready yet and haven't though of the real ending.) That becomes a huge push for me to keep going -- I write in sequence, which means I am always eager to get to the end.

The same

I treat my rough draft as a very detailed outline. I make notes in the middle. I highlight things that will cause changes later. I stay within the world I create, but I use the rough draft as a place to explore.

Nangleator said:

Is it just a matter of trusting yourselves and a general story idea?

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Pretty much.

I haven't outlined in about two years, though. Not to the degree that I once did. The last novel I outlined was just a sequence of narrative events. This happened, leading to that, and then after they.... etc.... It didn't allow for character development, because that wasn't the kind of outline it was--it was plot points.

As I started writing the novel, I began to flesh out the characters. Sometimes, they refused to do the things in the outline, so had to improvise. I didn't mind. As long as I hit a handful of necessary plot points, I gave myself room to let the characters lead. But I trusted myself as the author to direct the characters through their story, and I ultimately told the tale I wanted to tell.

To add to what I said earlier, my outline is really more of me telling what is going to happen. I also add in a little about character motivation, how the character feels, what she/he wants to accomplish. I'm right in the middle of doing this now for my next book. Like Ray said, it's almost like a very, very rough draft for me.

I tend to do the "hit the high points thing." I've done everything from a complete pants it approach to intensive outlines. If you aren't an outliner, then don't worry about it. But there are all different types of outlines. I frequently plot about a day ahead. I'll write in the morning and then in the evening, I'll think through tomorrow's scenes.

Nagleator, I think you're misjudging how you can use an outline and make it feel organic. You say that you currently start with a beginning and ending in mind, and you "let your characters" create the plot. That's perfectly fine. But you can do the same with your outline.

Have your beginning and ending in mind. Instead of asking "what would my characters do now?" and writing the novel, ask that same question and write a few sentences that summarize the corresponding chapter you would have written. What would result from your characters actions? Summarize that outcome in a few sentences as well. Now what would your characters do in response? More sentences for summary (instead of a whole chapter). Continue till you reach your ending... or, you might see that your characters have pulled you kicking and screaming toward a new ending. But instead of a whole novel, you have ten or twenty pages of scene or chapter summaries. The advantage to this is that you can go over the notes, see if it makes sense, see if there's a different avenue you want to take. If there is a different direction you want to try, you change a few paragraphs of summary instead of entire written chapters.

All I'm saying is that outlining can still feel organic, but you can have a little more control of the plot/story. It's also far easier if you first write a few detailed character descriptions/histories/bios before you start. And once you start writing the actual novel from the summaries, you'll still have pleasant surprises popping up as you move towards your various scene or chapter goals.

Obviously outlining isn't the only way to write. If you enjoy the process of flying by the seat of your pants, then continue writing without an outline if it's working for you. But if you want to try outlining, don't feel that it can't be organic, that is, "plotted by your characters". That's all I'm saying.

Good luck either way.

I was about to ask this question myself!

I wrote my first WIP by winging it the whole way.

Right now, I am writing a story that has a fantastic premise, but I am struggling from scene to scene. And I know it deserves more than what I am giving it. Right now, my characters are all standing around and looking at me as if to say.. "Um, what are you going to do with us now?"

I think outlining will help me get through this one. I definitely like III's idea of outlining the character arch too.

Thanks for this thread!

Ever hear the expression "Tell God your plans if you want to see Him laugh?"

I can plot and outline all day long, but in the end I have no control over my characters. Someday I hope to mature to that level.