Ineffective Democratic Congress

[William Haskins]

from horrid poll numbers to constant outrage in the blogosphere from the iraq withdrawal and pro-impeachment crowd, few can argue that the democratic majority hasn't been pretty much a bust for party loyalists.

while some claim that their mathematical majority isn't large enough to actively pursue the agenda of the leftier elements of the base, others have pointed to more sinister reasons (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1967410)for their ineffectiveness.

to what do you attribute the apparent ineffectiveness of the democratic congress?


**visual reference for option 6:

http://russmaney.com/Ted_Kennedy.jpg

[InfinityGoddess]

Weak leadership, Blue Dogs, DLC hacks, and a Republican minority in the Senate that filibusters most of the really good bills.

They have been doing their jobs investigating things, passing a few good bills, but on the Iraq War, they've admittedly been disappointing.

[William Haskins]

Weak leadership, Blue Dogs, DLC hacks...

interesting that you selected "keeping their powder dry for 08" when the very elements of the dems' 'big tent' you disparage above are the very ones who will propel the next prez into the white house.

i suppose once that's secured, they'll look leftward?

bonus points if you could name a few of these "really good bills" they've gotten passed.

[donroc]

What Democratic Party? They were hijacked by the Peace and Freedom Party back in the 70s -- no room for the Scoop Jackson types anymore.

www.donaldmichaelplatt.com

[InfinityGoddess]

interesting that you selected "keeping their powder dry for 08" when the very elements of the dems' 'big tent' you disparage above are the very ones who will propel the next prez into the white house.

i suppose once that's secured, they'll look leftward?

Some of the Blue Dogs are going to be facing serious primary challenges from left field. You'd better believe that they'd better start worrying about their job security and start acting like real Democrats. I can't fault the Senate Dems too much because of the numbers, but the House has no such excuses.

bonus points if you could name a few of these "really good bills" they've gotten passed.

College Cost Reduction Act (now signed into law), the minimum wage (which they snuck into the May Iraq supplemental, still "eh", but something), and SCHIP (which they will work to override the presidential veto at the end of the month).

[clintl]

What would you have expected, with such small majorities and a Republican in the White House? I'm content with them putting the brakes on the Bush Administration agenda. Anything more than that was unrealistic. They do need to find a replacement for Harry Reid as Senate Majority Leader.

There certainly was never any possibility that they could force a withdraw from Iraq even if they wanted to (the Republicans in the Senate would never have allowed that to come to a vote), nor was impeachment a possibility (though if the Democrats win the presidency in 2008, I bet there will be a lot of document shredding going on between November 2008 and January 2009).

[robeiae]

SCHIP--bleck! Another sin-tax funded piece of garbage, imo. And it includes cigars. Why don't they fund it by over-taxing video games instead?

[William Haskins]

bless their little hearts. maybe if they can win the white house, all 100 senate seats and all 435 house seats, they can get something done.

[Haggis]

SCHIP--bleck! Another sin-tax funded piece of garbage, imo. And it includes cigars. Why don't they fund it by over-taxing video games instead?

I blame Ted's shar-peis.

[ColoradoGuy]

Lack of a cohesive description of just what a Democrat is, other than simply not a Republican.
Weak leadership, which worsens #1

[ColoradoGuy]

bless their little hearts. maybe if they can win the white house, all 100 senate seats and all 435 house seats, they can get something done.
I'm not entirely sure about that. Sometimes they remind me of the famous Monty Python "Twit Olympics" skit. (I can't find the link, but it's out there on YouTube somewhere.)

[William Haskins]

Lack of a cohesive description of just what a Democrat is, other than simply not a Republican.
Weak leadership, which worsens #1

well-stated.

[InfinityGoddess]

Lack of a cohesive description of just what a Democrat is, other than simply not a Republican.
Weak leadership, which worsens #1

This explains it better than I ever could:

http://www.thenation.com/blogs/notion?pid=138042

"It's back to the traditional Democratic Party, which was founded on the health of the working person," Webb told me earlier this fall. In her victory speech this morning, McCaskill highlighted the same theme: "Once again," she said, "the Democratic Party has claimed Harry Truman's Senate seat for the working people of Missouri."


For the working people. It's a sequence of words Democrats have continued to mouth, but it's been a long time since anybody living in anything smaller than a McMansion had much call to believe it.

Truly championing the working class--and winning these folks' votes --means plunging in among them. That is what national Democrats are afraid to do. It's what John Kerry had in mind early in 2004, when he sniffed about how "everybody always makes the mistake of looking South" for Democratic votes. Despite forty years of steady economic growth in the region, the South still has more poor, struggling and badly educated Americans--black and white--than anywhere else in the country.


The Blue Dogs are not real Democrats in that they don't stand for the working people. Neither do the DLC. Those are the corporate-friendly Dems.

[William Haskins]

The Blue Dogs are not real Democrats in that they don't stand for the working people. Neither do the DLC. Those are the corporate-friendly Dems.

maybe they think you're not a real democrat.

[robeiae]

You're not a real democrat, Haskins.

[InfinityGoddess]

maybe they think you're not a real democrat.

I'm not a Democrat, teehee. :tongue I'm a swing voter.

[William Haskins]

in the land of the elephants
and the asses,
you're what they call
the 'unwashed masses'.

[ColoradoGuy]

in the land of the elephants
and the asses,
you're what they call
the 'unwashed masses'.
Burma Shave.

[William Haskins]

nobody's buying the 'cheney death threats' angle?

that's a shame.

i laughed so hard i cried when reading that.

[robeiae]

nobody's buying the 'cheney death threats' angle?

that's a shame.

i laughed so hard i cried when reading that.I suppose it's just coincidence that this idea was first offered by 'Streisandsuperfan'...

[William Haskins]

there are no coincidences.

[kristie911]

I'm with Haggis on this one. *shudders*

[Joe270]

They're too worried about the pending theocracy to get anything done.

[joetrain]

ha

[blacbird]

Largely Choice #5. The Democrats have really narrow majorities in Congress, and new leadership (not all of which is functioning well, apologies to Tip O'Neill, rest his soul). Republicans can use, and have used, the threat of filibuster, that thing they so reviled a year or two ago, to block legislation. And, of course, the POTUS is one of them. So Dems have, with a few exceptions, been placed in the situation where they need to use political theater to make their points. They have had mixed success, the SCHIP business being a fairly good piece of work, the Iraq War legislation possibly, too (jury remains out on that), some other things not so good. But it remains likely that they will increase their strength in both houses in the coming election, and a probability that they will win the White House. Given that, and the relatively short time GWB has left in office, why should they be in any big hurry?

Plus, they can watch Republicans continue to self-destruct in stupid ways (Alberto Gonzales, Larry Craig, Mark Foley, Tom Delay, Ted Stevens . . .).

caw

[William Haskins]

tip o'neill makes these rookies look like amateur night. that man was brilliant and tough as nails.

[SpookyWriter]

tip o'neill makes these rookies look like amateur night. that man was brilliant and tough as nails.He was Irish. What did you expect?

[blacbird]

tip o'neill makes these rookies look like amateur night. that man was brilliant and tough as nails.

Yup. And before him, people like Everett Dirksen, even Lyndon Johnson (a much better Senator and Congressman than President, even if he did cheat to get there, which I don't excuse, but which is ancient minor history). Pros from both major parties who made the system work. We don't get such when we vilify all politicians as evil, self-centered villains.

Now we get, among our senior representatives, Ted Stevens, Robert Byrd, Larry Craig, Pete Domenici, Ted Kennedy, Harry Reid. If there is an afterlife, Tom Jefferson is cringeing continuously.

But there are bright spots, even now:

An example: the two Senators from Iowa, both long-termers, one classic liberal Democrat (Tom Harken), one classic conservative Republican (Charles Grassley), both of whom I admire and both of who should serve as models for what we need in Congress and the Senate. Many Iowa voters have repeatedly voted for both. And there are others. Not all of our Senators and Congressmen (and for that matter, state legislators and city councilpeople) stink. If we are to regard ourselves legitimately as informed, intelligent citizens, it's up to us to make sure as few of them stink as possible. Nobody has ever threatened me to make a vote in one way or another, or not to vote at all. I went through about ten years of life mired in the self-defeating illusion that politics didn't matter, that voting didn't matter, that nothing mattered.

Bad idea. I got better. So should all of you.

Chris Matthews, regardless of what you think about his in-your-face media style, is an astute and very smart student of the political scene, and is enthusiastic and unapologetic about being so. He believes in the underlying necessity and virtue of open politics and open debate. He is an apostle of engagement, dialogue and debate. What I've heard about his new book intrigues me, and I intend to read it.

caw

[ColoradoGuy]

I paid my dues as an official in local government. I highly recommend it.

[SpookyWriter]

I paid my dues as an official in local government. I highly recommend it.I don't understand. I should pay dues to local government? This sounds like graft to me. But I can appreciate the extra income this activity might generate. How do I sign up?

[blacbird]

I don't understand. I should pay dues to local government? This sounds like graft to me. But I can appreciate the extra income this activity might generate. How do I sign up?

It can be surprisingly easy. Back in the 1970s I served a term as a representative on the local county Veteran's Affairs Committee. Simply volunteered. There are abundant opportunities for such things at the local level just about everywhere. It didn't pay anything, most don't. And I can't think of a damn thing I did that amounted to squat, which is why I didn't continue, but that doesn't mean all such efforts aren't worthwhile.

You pay all kinds of dues to local government everywhere (they're called sales taxes and property taxes, etc.). So what's your objection to participating, even in small ways, in how that money gets spent?

caw

[SpookyWriter]

So what's your objection to participating, even in small ways, in how that money gets spent?

cawI don't have any objections. I just want to know how I can get my fair share.

[louisgodwin]

Does everyone remember the Republicans' "Contract With America" back in the 90's? The Dem's need something similar to this, a set agenda upon which they can all agree. If they don't come together and start working as a team, the '08 elections could have surprising results.

Just a few days ago I heard that Congress' approval rating is even lower than Bush's. This really shocked me.

[blacbird]

Does everyone remember the Republicans' "Contract With America" back in the 90's? The Dem's need something similar to this, a set agenda upon which they can all agree. If they don't come together and start working as a team, the '08 elections could have surprising results.

Except you need to remember that the Repubs' "Contract With America" was a political disaster for Newt Gingrich and Republicans in general. Once people actually got a look at what he proposed to do, they went, WTF? and he got exactly nowhere.

And, frankly, Democrats right now are working "as a team" fairly well, like it or not. The party that isn't working very well as a team is the other one.

caw

[Joe270]

Excuses, excuses. No matter what, the OP will cost the demos votes.

It's the old 'unable to pull the head out' curse. They want to do so much so fast, but they run into their own rhetoric, then they alienate the people.

Read Dawno's post again. That pretty much sums it up.

With the caveat that a whole bunch of people don't think their obvious, 'simple' solutions are a simple as the demos think. A simple, quick, current example: funding health care through cigarette taxes. Ain't gonna work, but they think it's just splendid.

Not splendid, it's stupid. And that's how the representatives in congress who put this crap forward look to the electorate, pretty darn stupid.

[InfinityGoddess]

Excuses, excuses. No matter what, the OP will cost the demos votes.

It's the old 'unable to pull the head out' curse. They want to do so much so fast, but they run into their own rhetoric, then they alienate the people.

Read Dawno's post again. That pretty much sums it up.

With the caveat that a whole bunch of people don't think their obvious, 'simple' solutions are a simple as the demos think. A simple, quick, current example: funding health care through cigarette taxes. Ain't gonna work, but they think it's just splendid.

Not splendid, it's stupid. And that's how the representatives in congress who put this crap forward look to the electorate, pretty darn stupid.

Read this and weep (http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-10-09-poll_x.htm). Dems are gaining in the polls; the Republicans...not so much.

[Andrew]

The poll was taken shortly before the disaster of November, 06--the GOP deserved what it got and though I didn't weep I do feel concerned for our country... its bad and could get worse. Already many tax proposal trial baloons have been floated--and the dems have only just begun to fight to take more from wage earners.
It is sad.
Should the dems take the Whitehouse and gain more seats in the congress, one painful lesson more will learn is how truly bad and costly everything can get, how very much more intrusive a government can become and how mistaken we've been within both parties.
The scenario could cause another tsunami against the dems in favor of their weak sister, the republicans.

[TheGaffer]

nobody's buying the 'cheney death threats' angle?

that's a shame.

i laughed so hard i cried when reading that.

Wait, you laughed so hard at your own poll?

So we have robbie referring to his own blog and you laughing at your own jokes. What's going on here?

Meanwhile, that pic of Ted Kennedy? If you're not going to make it your avatar, you have no guts.

[TheGaffer]

Yup. And before him, people like Everett Dirksen, even Lyndon Johnson (a much better Senator and Congressman than President, even if he did cheat to get there, which I don't excuse, but which is ancient minor history). Pros from both major parties who made the system work. We don't get such when we vilify all politicians as evil, self-centered villains.

An example: the two Senators from Iowa, both long-termers, one classic liberal Democrat (Tom Harken), one classic conservative Republican (Charles Grassley), both of whom I admire and both of who should serve as models for what we need in Congress and the Senate. Many Iowa voters have repeatedly voted for both. And there are others.

Chris Matthews, regardless of what you think about his in-your-face media style, is an astute and very smart student of the political scene, and is enthusiastic and unapologetic about being so. He believes in the underlying necessity and virtue of open politics and open debate.
caw


A few points.

--Among those astute and smart politicians I'd include Ted Kennedy (yes, really, as he works hard and knows how to work with those he disagrees with), Jim Webb, Chuck Hagel, Russ Feingold, Chuck Schumer (a scrappy New Yorker, so he's my kind of guy), the Senators from Maine, and a few others I can't think of.

--Chris Matthews is indeed smart but sometimes gets a bit too caught up in the man-love, going on and on about what kind of cigars he thinks Fred Thompson smokes, the manliness of Rudy G. And then he obsesses over the Clintons' sex life. It's all a bit much.

[TheGaffer]

Just a few days ago I heard that Congress' approval rating is even lower than Bush's. This really shocked me.

True.

But it's actually the Republicans who garner lower ratings, despite the fact that it's the Democrats who are in the majority.


Despite discontent with Congress this year, the public rates congressional Republicans (29 percent approve) lower than congressional Democrats (38 percent approve). When the parties are pitted directly against each other, the public broadly favors Democrats on Iraq, health care, the federal budget and the economy. Only on the issue of terrorism are Republicans at parity with Democrats.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/01/AR2007100101235.html

[TheGaffer]

Should the dems take the Whitehouse and gain more seats in the congress, one painful lesson more will learn is how truly bad and costly everything can get, how very much more intrusive a government can become and how mistaken we've been within both parties.


Yeah, that Bill Clinton, he really screwed the economy.

[William Haskins]

Wait, you laughed so hard at your own poll?

So we have robbie referring to his own blog and you laughing at your own jokes. What's going on here?

Meanwhile, that pic of Ted Kennedy? If you're not going to make it your avatar, you have no guts.

check the embedded link in the OP...

if it doesn't make you laugh, you get your money back.

[TheGaffer]

Haskins.

Avatar change.

Now.

Ted Kennedy.

Boobs.

You know you want to.

[ColoradoGuy]

check the embedded link in the OP...

if it doesn't make you laugh, you get your money back.
That is wacky. Perhaps they all meet on the Grassy Knoll.

[kristie911]

Yeah, that Bill Clinton, he really screwed the economy.

Maybe not, but my Democrat governor did here in Michigan. Makes it kind of tough to get on the Dem bandwagon.

[Celia Cyanide]

nobody's buying the 'cheney death threats' angle?

that's a shame.

i laughed so hard i cried when reading that.

I thought it was funny, too, so I voted for it.

Consider my real answer to be option 1.

[RumpleTumbler]

:roll:

Seriously, what in your opinion is BEYOND the pale for someone like Cheney? Would he threaten to nuke a US city (or allow it to happen) unless he gets what he wants? Threaten to kill a Senators family or loved one's? Is ANYTHING too much or too far for him? And what, if anything, can be done about it?

From the link in the OP.

[RumpleTumbler]

This jewel from dwp6577..........

My Rep. Brian Baird used to come on portland local radio (KPOJ), talk about the IRAQ "occupation", getting the troops out, bush is insane, etc... then his latest 180 about a month ago...it was unbelievable. I've sent him a couple scathing messages (asking him if was scared or bought off), but no response...huh.

Then I'm heading back to work from lunch and an ARMY recruiter car speeds by, heading for a highschool to pick up some new red-mist-makers. He sees the stickers on the back of my car (one says "stop mad cowboy disease" with a pic of you know who; the says "AWOL" with the red circle cross out thingy over the W). Dude gets on his cell phone...and I'm thinking, syrian prison for me.

and this one from in_cog_ni_to.............

Leahy received his Anthrax, that was followed up with threats..."We sent you that anthrax and if you love your family you will do everything we want. If you don't, your daughter, son, wife, grandchildren will have very unfortunate accidents and if you tell ANYONE what I am saying right now, we will kill them anyway, so unless you do everything we ask and keep your mouth shut while doing so, your family will die."

It's the thread that keeps on giving. :roll:

[TheGaffer]

So what you're saying is, there are a number of liberals who post on message boards who seem unhinged and not completely in their right minds.

There are conservatives who are the same as well, who have their own message boards.

Considering either of them (Who post with the easily identifiable names like in_cog_nit_o or jkmnag38153315) as a representative view of either side actually more disproves your point than proves it.

[RumpleTumbler]

I'm just enjoying myself and am not trying to prove anything. I would make a comment if I wanted to start an argument about something.

[TheGaffer]

Ah ok. Carry on then sir.

[InfinityGoddess]

The poll was taken shortly before the disaster of November, 06--the GOP deserved what it got and though I didn't weep I do feel concerned for our country... its bad and could get worse. Already many tax proposal trial baloons have been floated--and the dems have only just begun to fight to take more from wage earners.

Yeah, I should have checked the dates. Unfortunately, I was an insomniac last night. @.@ Whoopsie.

Here is something more recent from Rasmussen Reports (http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/trust_on_issues).

[William Haskins]

add 'insomnia' to the list...

[InfinityGoddess]

add 'insomnia' to the list...

It was in the wee hours, Haskins. I shouldn't have to justify my mistakes to you. You'd be tired too if you only had two-hour's sleep. At least I corrected myself.

[William Haskins]

I shouldn't have to justify my mistakes to you.

agreed. and yet you do...

ad nauseum...

[robeiae]

I sleep between two and four hours every night. Can I get some soup?

Just say "my mistake" and move along. It's not hard.







Crap. There I go, being helpful, again...

[InfinityGoddess]

Crap. There I go, being helpful, again...

Because we all know how much of a softie you are. :tongue

[TheGaffer]

I sleep between two and four hours every night. Can I get some soup?


No soup for you!

http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/7/72/180px-Sein_soup_nazi.jpg

[Joe270]

Soup nazi.