Surely Nothing Can Go Wrong with This...

[William Haskins]

I am creating artificial life, declares US gene pioneer

Craig Venter, the controversial DNA researcher involved in the race to decipher the human genetic code, has built a synthetic chromosome out of laboratory chemicals and is poised to announce the creation of the first new artificial life form on Earth.

The announcement, which is expected within weeks and could come as early as Monday at the annual meeting of his scientific institute in San Diego, California, will herald a giant leap forward in the development of designer genomes. It is certain to provoke heated debate about the ethics of creating new species and could unlock the door to new energy sources and techniques to combat global warming.

Mr Venter told the Guardian he thought this landmark would be "a very important philosophical step in the history of our species. We are going from reading our genetic code to the ability to write it. That gives us the hypothetical ability to do things never contemplated before".

The Guardian can reveal that a team of 20 top scientists assembled by Mr Venter, led by the Nobel laureate Hamilton Smith, has already constructed a synthetic chromosome, a feat of virtuoso bio-engineering never previously achieved. Using lab-made chemicals, they have painstakingly stitched together a chromosome that is 381 genes long and contains 580,000 base pairs of genetic code.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2007/oct/06/genetics.climatechange

[Voyager]

I feel confident that the scientific community has taken all the possible ramifications of such action into serious consideration and would do nothing to jeapordize the human race simply to satisfy their infinite curiosity. I need xanax, lots and lots of xanax.

[Bird of Prey]

We live in a fantastic age. Despite all its problems, it's breathtaking, advances like these.

And as a species, I'd say we've only just graduated elementary school.

[William Haskins]

We live in a fantastic age. Despite all its problems, it's breathtaking, advances like these.

And as a species, I'd say we've only just graduated elementary school.

we'll see how you like in when microscopic spies are crawling in through your ventilation system and digging through your purse.

[JoNightshade]

Haha. I love mad scientists.

[Rolling Thunder]

When did the subject change to Hillary being elected?

[lostintheweb]

When did the subject change to Hillary being elected?

At least she might actually be able to have the term "scientist" to her, "mad" or otherwise.

Actually, I think it is about time for that intergalactic superhighway to come through. Say bye to all the dolphins, and give them a fish.

[Bird of Prey]

we'll see how you like in when microscopic spies are crawling in through your ventilation system and digging through your purse.

Don't worry. I don't carry a purse. They can dig through my wallet, though.

Look, as long as they kill fleas, they can dig through whatever they want. . . well, within reason.

[William Haskins]

but what if it's republican bacterium mycoplasma?

[Bird of Prey]

but what if it's republican bacterium mycoplasma?

Republican's O.K. They don't mind me much. But if that's Neocon stuff, it would have seen to my demise long before the wallet digging.

[William Haskins]

they'll have a little antfarm called mini-gitmo where they'll vomit your remains for detention.

[Bird of Prey]

they'll have a little antfarm called mini-gitmo where they'll vomit your remains for detention.


Lol!! Or they'll upchuck the genetic material and rearrange it into something disgusting, just to torture me.

[William Haskins]

Lol!! Or they'll upchuck the genetic material and rearrange it into something disgusting, just to torture me.

.
http://jeffrey-feldman.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/05/06/cheney.jpg

[Bird of Prey]

LOL!! OMG!! I'll talk!! I'll be a good warmonger from now on. Please, oh please, I promise!!

Wait. He's got a lot of money, doesn't he?

[Bird of Prey]

Mr Venter told the Guardian he thought this landmark would be "a very important philosophical step in the history of our species. We are going from reading our genetic code to the ability to write it.

A very important philosophical step? He must be kidding. It's a gigantic leap in every way. It's the beginning of a whole new game.

[billythrilly7th]

Maybe by Sunday night they'll be able to create something that can hit a baseball and the Yanks can put it in the lineup.

Or create a giant bug that eats other bugs so our f'ing pitchers can f'ing pitch.

F!

[benbradley]

I feel confident that the scientific community has taken all the possible ramifications of such action into serious consideration and would do nothing to jeapordize the human race simply to satisfy their infinite curiosity. I need xanax, lots and lots of xanax.

I better check to make sure I have a reservation at The Restaurant At The End Of The Universe, this could be quite a show...

[benbradley]

Mr Venter told the Guardian he thought this landmark would be "a very important philosophical step in the history of our species. We are going from reading our genetic code to the ability to write it.

A very important philosophical step? He must be kidding. It's a gigantic leap in every way. It's the beginning of a whole new game.

"One small slice for (a) man, one giant leap for lifekind."

AKA, the ultimate in famous last words.

[blacbird]

but what if it's republican bacterium mycoplasma?

Already exists. Genus Cheney, species dick.

caw

[RG570]

I may be a radical leftist socially, but I'm a bio-conservative and I think stuff like this is a disaster waiting to happen.

This doesn't provide humanity with knowledge, it just gives the oligarchy power they should never have. This isn't science, it's insanity.

Humans are fine the way they are, and there are enough of us as it is. I don't think we need jackasses like this guy with no friends polluting the world with his manufactured freaks just so he can have someone to talk to.

If anything good comes out of the current right-wing craze, it'll be shutting idiots like this down.

[Voyager]

I don't think we need jackasses like this guy with no friends polluting the world with his manufactured freaks just so he can have someone to talk to.

I didn't think of this until just this moment (thanks, RG) but the next logical step after making himself a little nerd posse, kinda makes me throw up a little bit.

[Unique]

the creation of the first new artificial life form on Earth.

So long -
farewell
it's time for me to go
Good bye
cruel world
we've ceased to run the show
bigger, better, smarter, faster

Oh, that's an improvement.
Not.

[Bird of Prey]

Humanity has always pushed the scientific limit regardless of ethics or religion or even common sense.

And I'm all for it. We're no longer in our infancy, that's for sure. But for a bunch of hairy beasts that dropped out of trees, well. . .we've come a long way.

We have been endowed with remarkable intelligence, and the very brightest of our kind are leading the way into a brand new day. And I'm glad for it. Because I think for every step we take, we leave further behind the trappings of ferocity and cruelty and a painful fight for survival that marked our beginnings. And if there is such a thing as intelligent design, well, I think that was the plan.

If we can continue the march toward a new horizon with a certain humility and the human compassion that has ultimately carried us to this point, we're in for an amazing journey and a glorious future.

[Rolling Thunder]

Humanity has always pushed the scientific limit regardless of ethics or religion or even common sense.

And I'm all for it. We're no longer in our infancy, that's for sure. But for a bunch of hairy beasts that dropped out of trees, well. . .we've come a long way.

We have been endowed with remarkable intelligence, and the very brightest of our kind are leading the way into a brand new day. And I'm glad for it. Because I think for every step we take, we leave further behind the trappings of ferocity and cruelty and a painful fight for survival that marked our beginnings. And if there is such a thing as intelligent design, well, I think that was the plan.

If we can continue the march toward a new horizon with a certain humility and the human compassion that has ultimately carried us to this point, we're in for an amazing journey and a glorious future.

You sound like a super-villain, Bop. ;)

[Higgins]

You sound like a super-villain, Bop. ;)

She does. She needs to get a Jackal mask ("Jackal" being a word I've finally learned to spell) and learn a few special laughs. or "J-Laffs" as we say in the "I laugh with my Jackal face" business.

Anyway, I hope we get compensated for whatever goes wrong.

[Higgins]

I may be a radical leftist socially, but I'm a bio-conservative and I think stuff like this is a disaster waiting to happen.

This doesn't provide humanity with knowledge, it just gives the oligarchy power they should never have. This isn't science, it's insanity.

Humans are fine the way they are, and there are enough of us as it is. I don't think we need jackasses like this guy with no friends polluting the world with his manufactured freaks just so he can have someone to talk to.

If anything good comes out of the current right-wing craze, it'll be shutting idiots like this down.

One thing the far right and the far left can agree on is that Science is out of control.

I'm not sure why that is. And I assume the Far right likes nuclear reactors (though they traditionally fear food additives as much as the eco-natch people...they just fear different additives...to each part of the "spectrum" a different food additive fear comes) and I assume the far left likes alternative things (not exactly science, but then neither is "energy policy").

As an ostentaiously reasonable and earnestly de-ideologizing person, I'd just like to point out that if Science manages to head off even one viral pandemic, that will save more people than have ever been harmed by Science gone bad (for example with prescription drugs that should not be as heavily used as they are).

[Bird of Prey]

You sound like a super-villain, Bop. ;)

Yeah, well. We may be in for a bumpy ride, but it won't be all that bad. In the eighteenth century, a bumpy ride was a stagecoach.

We're boarding a jet now. A little turbulence to be sure, but man, we sure are rocketing into the future: mach speed.

I'm thrilled, Rt.

[donroc]

I thought it had been done long before, say about 5768 years ago?????

www.donaldmichaelplatt.com

[brokenfingers]

Of course, I remain extremely skeptical and cynical of this event.

And sorry, BoP, but giving humans, at this juncture in time, the ability to artifically create and manipulate life is like letting a kid who just gradutated elementary school, have a baby.


As always in life - just cuz something can be done does not mean it should be done...

[Higgins]

I thought it had been done long before, say about 5768 years ago?????

www.donaldmichaelplatt.com (http://www.donaldmichaelplatt.com)


When the Paddler Gods released the Young Corn God?

It's true that people have been manipulating their biological environment by selecting plants and animals for many thousands of years.

[ALG71]

And as a species, I'd say we've only just graduated elementary school.


I would have to respectfully disagree. As a species, in the grand scheme of the universe, the human race is barely a knat on the ass of an elephant.

A permanent presence on the moon and we'll have just started learning how to crawl.

A presence on Mars and eliminating all disease and hunger will be the first walking steps.

Graduation from elementary school will come when we've developed ships that can travel at the speed of light.

Graduation from highschool will be when we're colonizing planets outside our solar system.

And graduation from college and ready for the universe is when we can leave the Milky Way Galaxy.

IMHO.

EDIT: You could add the elimination of all war among the human race to the just learning how to walk phase.

[brokenfingers]

I would have to respectfully disagree. As a species, in the grand scheme of the universe, the human race is barely a knat on the ass of an elephant.

A permanent presence on the moon and we'll have just started learning how to crawl.

A presence on Mars and eliminating all disease and hunger will be the first walking steps.

Graduation from elementary school will come when we've developed ships that can travel at the speed of light.

Graduation from highschool will be when we're colonizing planets outside our solar system.

And graduation from college and ready for the universe is when we can leave the Milky Way Galaxy.

IMHO.

EDIT: You could add the elimination of all war among the human race to the just learning how to walk phase.I must also respectfully disagree.

I don't feel the maturity of the human race should have anything to do with material achievements such as space travel, colonization, techno-whizz ideas etc.

Gaining material things must always take a distant second place to the gaining of wisdom and the insight to make the right decisions.

History is rampant with ideas that looked good on paper until run through the grind of human nature. Then they became quite another thing altogether...

[ALG71]

But see Brokenfinger, if you look at the "learning how to walk", with the elimination of disease, hunger, and war will bring on the insight and wisdom that you're talking about.

A permanent presence on the moon will happen long before those 3 things are eliminated.

P.S. And by the time we've ended disease, hunger, war, and a permanent presence on Mars (and I'm not talking about 3 humans living in a single tube, presence to me means at least 100 people). We'll have become enlightened enough that materialism won't be anywhere near as prevalant as it is today.

[Bird of Prey]

Boy you folks sure are pessimists.

Look around you. Good heavens. You don't see enormous strides?

[brokenfingers]

Boy you folks sure are pessimists.

Look around you. Good heavens. You don't see enormous strides?I suppose it depends what street you walk down...

[ALG71]

Sure, from our perspective there have been enormous strides, I don't deny that. But to say we've graduated from elementary school at this point in time of our history, it's quite an overestimation.

A truly enormous stride will be if we haven't exterminated ourselves by the end of this century.

But consider a few hundred years from now, when we've gotten to graduation from elementary school. Our future selves will be saying, "they really were full of themselves to call that progress, when they had so many problems in the world around them."

[Bird of Prey]

Sure, from our perspective there have been enormous strides, I don't deny that. But to say we've graduated from elementary school at this point in time of our history, it's quite an overestimation.

A truly enormous stride will be if we haven't exterminated ourselves by the end of this century.

But consider a few hundred years from now, when we've gotten to graduation from elementary school. Our future selves will be saying, "they really were full of themselves to call that progress, when they had so many problems in the world around them."

Alg -

We have graduated elementary school from the standard of Darwin in that - although we are still immature and yes we still fight - we have learned the basics. We have the knowledge and a scientific foundation that will launch us into early adulthood.

And I don't see it as fraught with problems at all. Rather, I see it as another step toward transcendence from all that limits us physically.

[Rolling Thunder]

Boy you folks sure are pessimists.

Look around you. Good heavens. You don't see enormous strides?

I don't think I'm being pessimistic. I'm looking at it from the realistic perspective that, as long as money is involved in any scientific proposition, only those with money will be able to afford the benefits.

[astonwest]

Just think...now we can create overwhelming numbers of soldiers bent on obeying our every command...

At least until they turn on us...

damn.

[benbradley]

I don't think I'm being pessimistic. I'm looking at it from the realistic perspective that, as long as money is involved in any scientific proposition, only those with money will be able to afford the benefits.

You're probably right, just look at all the poor peolpe stricken with polio...
ahem...

[Rolling Thunder]

You're probably right, just look at all the poor peolpe stricken with polio...
ahem...

Polio is still a problem outside the US. Ya know...in some of those poor countries...ahem...

[Bird of Prey]

Polio is still a problem outside the US. Ya know...in some of those poor countries...ahem...

RT, Ben is right. Polio is hardly an issue compared to what it was. Come on.

[Rolling Thunder]

RT, Ben is right. Polio is hardly an issue compared to what it was. Come on.

Well, where does the money come from to get those medicines to where it's needed? It does take money, and lots of it, to make it work.

[robeiae]

The human race graduated college over three thousand years ago. Now, we're just making our way through middle age, before we get retired to Century Village.

What are you guys smoking, anyway?

[maestrowork]

I may be a radical leftist socially, but I'm a bio-conservative and I think stuff like this is a disaster waiting to happen.


On the other hand, it's a science fiction/horror/techno-thriller writer's dream come true...

[maestrowork]

The human race graduated college over three thousand years ago. Now, we're just making our way through middle age, before we get retired to Century Village.

What are you guys smoking, anyway?

We should just spend more money building the moon base or searching for another M class planet before Takei hits Earth and destroys it.

[Voyager]

Humanity has always pushed the scientific limit regardless of ethics or religion or even common sense.

And I'm all for it. We're no longer in our infancy, that's for sure. But for a bunch of hairy beasts that dropped out of trees, well. . .we've come a long way.

We have been endowed with remarkable intelligence, and the very brightest of our kind are leading the way into a brand new day. And I'm glad for it. Because I think for every step we take, we leave further behind the trappings of ferocity and cruelty and a painful fight for survival that marked our beginnings. And if there is such a thing as intelligent design, well, I think that was the plan.

If we can continue the march toward a new horizon with a certain humility and the human compassion that has ultimately carried us to this point, we're in for an amazing journey and a glorious future.

As long as killing people remains a viable option for resolving conflict of any kind and we keep inventing more horrific ways to do it. As long as acquisition remains one of the top priorities for a majority of the people who control the world's food supply and the third world dies of starvation while the western world suffers a crisis of obesity, I don't see how we've evolved all that much. We're doing the same thing our hairy ancestors did, we're simply defending it more eloquently and in nicer clothes. I don't think the world is prepared to handle some of the moral and philosophical issues surrounding this kind of science.

[RG570]

Humanity has always pushed the scientific limit regardless of ethics or religion or even common sense.

And I'm all for it. We're no longer in our infancy, that's for sure. But for a bunch of hairy beasts that dropped out of trees, well. . .we've come a long way.

We have been endowed with remarkable intelligence, and the very brightest of our kind are leading the way into a brand new day. And I'm glad for it. Because I think for every step we take, we leave further behind the trappings of ferocity and cruelty and a painful fight for survival that marked our beginnings. And if there is such a thing as intelligent design, well, I think that was the plan.

If we can continue the march toward a new horizon with a certain humility and the human compassion that has ultimately carried us to this point, we're in for an amazing journey and a glorious future.


What has all this bourgeois optimism gotten us? Let's see, we've still failed to solve the problems that the technology of the 1960s could have solved, because it wouldn't be convenient for profit.

I see nothing good about this "horizon" other than the ridiculous golden-age SF ideals of social darwinism and egocentric ideals, which are both childish and ultimately vain and destructive.

I can just see it now. In the future, these nerds will have created their perfect being. Going by the foobies links posted by such nerds on Fark, they'll be dumb-looking, hairless, and with no outward signs of having genitalia, like plastic dolls. They'll also have no appendix, tonsils and other body parts that such geniuses have now deemed "vestigial".

Then there'll be a massive outbreak of some terrible disease that these wonderful geniuses didn't see coming, and because they've stupidly assumed that all the organs they thought were leftovers from evolution were pointless when they were actually lymphatic tissue and thus quite important, all the boring, perfect clones will die.

Then us hairy, stupid people can rule once again.

Of course, it won't be the nerds who own the rights to these abominations. It'll be someone like Monsanto. So they'll make money by creating a race of human that legally is their property and any medical treatment or genetic therapy, or whatever, MUST come from them. They won't reproduce sexually, because by then sex will become passe and unprofitable, since people can't even handle looking at an unphotoshopped nude woman even now. In order to reproduce, the clone will have to pay the company that owns them for more genetic material, and it will be against the law for them to do otherwise. And if one of these creatures mates with a real human, the company will sue the real human for polluting their product, whose sole purpose is to exist and bring more money into the company.

It's happening with seeds as we speak. It's only a matter of time before we as humans have lost our final shreds of dignity and become private property.

What a bright future these nerdy rays of sunshine are bringing us!

[Rolling Thunder]

I'd never accuse BoP of bourgeois optimism. Seriously. There's nothing wrong with being optimistic about the progress of mankind. But, as you said, RG, I believe the quest for profit is a hurdle that can't be ignored.

http://www.slate.com/id/2102844/

[ColoradoGuy]

I can just see it now. In the future, these nerds will have created their perfect being. Going by the foobies links posted by such nerds on Fark, they'll be dumb-looking, hairless, and with no outward signs of having genitalia, like plastic dolls. They'll also have no appendix, tonsils and other body parts that such geniuses have now deemed "vestigial".

Then there'll be a massive outbreak of some terrible disease that these wonderful geniuses didn't see coming, and because they've stupidly assumed that all the organs they thought were leftovers from evolution were pointless when they were actually lymphatic tissue and thus quite important, all the boring, perfect clones will die.

Then us hairy, stupid people can rule once again.

Of course, it won't be the nerds who own the rights to these abominations. It'll be someone like Monsanto. So they'll make money by creating a race of human that legally is their property and any medical treatment or genetic therapy, or whatever, MUST come from them. They won't reproduce sexually, because by then sex will become passe and unprofitable, since people can't even handle looking at an unphotoshopped nude woman even now. In order to reproduce, the clone will have to pay the company that owns them for more genetic material, and it will be against the law for them to do otherwise. And if one of these creatures mates with a real human, the company will sue the real human for polluting their product, whose sole purpose is to exist and bring more money into the company.
I'd buy that book. Make it sort of Blade Runner-ish noir.

[Higgins]

What has all this bourgeois optimism gotten us? Let's see, we've still failed to solve the problems that the technology of the 1960s could have solved, because it wouldn't be convenient for profit.

I see nothing good about this "horizon" other than the ridiculous golden-age SF ideals of social darwinism and egocentric ideals, which are both childish and ultimately vain and destructive.

I can just see it now. In the future, these nerds will have created their perfect being. Going by the foobies links posted by such nerds on Fark, they'll be dumb-looking, hairless, and with no outward signs of having genitalia, like plastic dolls. They'll also have no appendix, tonsils and other body parts that such geniuses have now deemed "vestigial".

Then there'll be a massive outbreak of some terrible disease that these wonderful geniuses didn't see coming, and because they've stupidly assumed that all the organs they thought were leftovers from evolution were pointless when they were actually lymphatic tissue and thus quite important, all the boring, perfect clones will die.

Then us hairy, stupid people can rule once again.

Of course, it won't be the nerds who own the rights to these abominations. It'll be someone like Monsanto. So they'll make money by creating a race of human that legally is their property and any medical treatment or genetic therapy, or whatever, MUST come from them. They won't reproduce sexually, because by then sex will become passe and unprofitable, since people can't even handle looking at an unphotoshopped nude woman even now. In order to reproduce, the clone will have to pay the company that owns them for more genetic material, and it will be against the law for them to do otherwise. And if one of these creatures mates with a real human, the company will sue the real human for polluting their product, whose sole purpose is to exist and bring more money into the company.

It's happening with seeds as we speak. It's only a matter of time before we as humans have lost our final shreds of dignity and become private property.

What a bright future these nerdy rays of sunshine are bringing us!


I'm always puzzled by the imaginary bad designs for people that people come up with...

After all, if you could sit down and foresee all these imaginary problems without any basis in any reasonable research aimed at fixing up the human genome...think what somebody who knows something about the topic might be able to foresee?

For example, one nice thing to do, would be to target diseases caused by recessive defective genes so that you could patch in a patch sperm (an artificial sperm built so as to substitute functional genes for dysfunctional ones)...the resulting offspring would be as expected from their parents genetic mix except that they would have functional copies of the defective genes.

There's no reason to jump to variations on standard clone horror stories just because people are getting steadily better at genetic manipulation.

[SpookyWriter]

I'm always puzzled by the imaginary bad designs for people that people come up with...
Speak for yourself buddy. I got my own problems to worry about.

http://www.geekasaurus.com/clint/images/20050512cutebaby.jpg

[TheGaffer]

I am creating artificial life, declares US gene pioneer



http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2007/oct/06/genetics.climatechange


I don't see the problem.

I mean, what this artifical life form is like E.T.?

Is that so bad?

[Susan Gable]

He's not really "creating" life, he's modifying life. He's still got to use an emptied cell as the basis for this life form, and he's taking previously existing DNA and modifying it.

That's like saying, "I have created a masterpiece" when what you've done is taken one of (fill in your favorite master painter here - Monet, Van Gough, Michelangelo, etc.)'s paintings and modified it a bit, changing a stroke here, a line there, an image here.

Or, to put it in writer's terms, since this is AW, taking your favorite "masterpiece" manuscript written by your prefered Great, tweaking it here and there, changing a scene, adding some new dialogue, and presto, proclaiming that you have CREATED a masterful manuscript.

Do I think this could be trouble? Of course it could. "Whoops, we had no idea it would do THAT!"

Last I'd read, a number of children treated with gene therapy for Boy-in-the-Bubble syndrome (sorry, don't recall the real name) ended up with cancer as a result of the treatment. "Whoops, we had no idea it would do that. Sorry."

I'm not anti-progress. But proceed with some caution. Because "whoops" is never good.

And the answer is 47, right? :)

Susan G.