The Lion of the Left

[Bird of Prey]

Kucinich working to change minds
2007-10-05 06:05:04.0

Chicago Tribune
(MCT)

CHICAGO - On the eve of another grim anniversary of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, members of Congress voted on a symbolic resolution to establish an official remembrance, expression of sympathy and honoring of heroes.

It was the kind of measure on which, surely, everyone could agree.

Everyone, that is, except Rep. Dennis Kucinich, elected and sent to Capitol Hill in 1996 to represent a district that includes Cleveland, the city where he was dubbed the boy mayor at age 31.

In explaining why his was the lone dissenting vote, Kucinich said Congress needs to "wake up to the truth and exercise its obligation under the Constitution to save our nation from being destroyed from the lies that led us into Iraq, the lies that keep us there, the lies that are being used to set the stage for war against Iran and the lies that have undermined our basic civil liberties at home."

For Kucinich, self-doubt isn't a problem, and half-measures won't do. His position on the war? Complete withdrawal, now. Health insurance? Everybody should have it, now. International trade agreements? Abandon them, now.http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-071002kucinich-story,1,585603.story

His positions are actually making sense to me. And if that's the case, it's possible he's gaining traction, because like everybody else, I all but dismissed him. . .until recently. Now I admire him.

In depth article. Worth the read.

[William Haskins]

i'm just happy to see elves finally represented in the american political landscape.

[davids]

I hear you BOP and could not agree with you more!!!! The problem is that the dems'll come in and lie like a pack of rabid turds-but hey a change is good as a rest to a blind man-so what the hell ya gonna do-guess this non war-rules of engagement-stupidity kill the comwade kill the comwade-Elmer Fud president'll lie more and we will believe more and all will be well in the land of Nod-hold on let's call home to see if we can return fire or not, cause the Hoosegow at Pendleton is already full and what the hell's for dinner Marje!!!???

[InfinityGoddess]

I still say he doesn't have that much of a chance, if only because he gets drowned out by the Top Three, if nothing else. Big Media focuses on Obama, Hillary, and Edwards the most.

[Celia Cyanide]

i'm just happy to see elves finally represented in the american political landscape.

Amen. So is Lantern Jack.

Why Kucinich gaining traction now? I've always liked him.

[MattW]

The Lollipop Bloc will be a vital group if the dem convention convention comes to a draw.

[William Haskins]

Why Kucinich gaining traction now? I've always liked him.

His positions are actually making sense to me. And if that's the case, it's possible he's gaining traction, because like everybody else, I all but dismissed him. . .until recently. Now I admire him.

because BoP has her finger on the pulse of the electorate?

[Bird of Prey]

Amen. So is Lantern Jack.

Why Kucinich gaining traction now? I've always liked him.

Celia,

We just had another whopping increase pass for the war in Iraq. I really think people aren't feeling as if the established politicians are listening to them, and they're not. Americans made it clear what direction they expect the country to go and they're being ignored. And so people like Kucinich to the left, and to the right, Ron Paul are getting noticed because they stick to their message, and the message is about getting out of Iraq, and they can be trusted to do it.

[MattW]

Celia,

We just had another whopping increase pass for the war in Iraq. I really think people aren't feeling as if the established politicians are listening to them, and they're not. Americans made it clear what direction they expect the country to go and they're being ignored. And so people like Kucinich to the left, and to the right, Ron Paul are getting noticed because they stick to their message, and the message is about getting out of Iraq, and they can be trusted to do it.Well, considering the amount of Democrats elected on getting out of Iraq, I'd say there has to be a lot of disappointment and betrayal with the voting base.

To me, they are doing what is right and prudent, instead of doing what is popular and precipitous. But I didn't vote for any of these promise breakers and mandate ignorers.

[Bird of Prey]

Well, considering the amount of Democrats elected on getting out of Iraq, I'd say there has to be a lot of disappointment and betrayal with the voting base.

Definitely.

To me, they are doing what is right and prudent, instead of doing what is popular and precipitous. But I didn't vote for any of these promise breakers and mandate ignorers.

Well, I guess I'd have to say I really don't want a government that doesn't represent the people. And what you construe as popular and precipitous, I construe as the will of the people. When government carries on with total disregard for its citizens, it's no longer our government. And I think that's what's happened.

[MattW]

Definitely.



Well, I guess I'd have to say I really don't want a government that doesn't represent the people. And what you construe as popular and precipitous, I construe as the will of the people. When government carries on with total disregard for its citizens, it's no longer our government. And I think that's what's happened.While I agree that in most cases, that the will of the people should drive the government, there are too many instances where doing something unpleasant is in the nation's interest. We elect our officials to listen when we speak, but to also make a convincing argument when public opinion is potentially damaging in the grand scheme.

I'm certain we disagree on what kind of time this is.

[Celia Cyanide]

From what I know about Kucinich, he was thrown out of office when he was Mayor of Cleveland for going against public opinion, and in retrospect, many believe he probably did the right thing. In contrast, he used to vote pro-life, until he heard a different point of view and changed his mind. He's capable of sticking to his convictions, and listening to other people and changing his position when he feels it is necessary.

[InfinityGoddess]

Well, considering the amount of Democrats elected on getting out of Iraq, I'd say there has to be a lot of disappointment and betrayal with the voting base.


It's because the Republicans are dragging them down. The Democrats do not have the numbers to really do much, so it's not entirely their fault.

[TheGaffer]

It's because the Republicans are dragging them down. The Democrats do not have the numbers to really do much, so it's not entirely their fault.

Egads, no.

They could stomp their feet and pass a million resolutions and shut the GOP out and act like complete lunatics on this, but they're not. They're caving on most everything, including voting for stupid symbolic resolutions to condemn Moveon.org, and then wondering why the GOP doesn't condemn Rush.

The GOP's mindless groupthink annoys me at times (a lot of the time, really) but once in a while it's nice to see a bit of party discipline on the most important issues -- particularly, as BoP has pointed out, they have the will of the people behind them. It's been nearly 7 years and they need to realize that George W is not infalliable, and he's not a king, and more importantly, he doesn't have the people standing behind him.

Kucinich back then - against the war - was a principled position. All of the others - Clinton et al - could take those stances now. It wouldn't reflect the same kind of guts (it is swaying in the wind) but it would reflect reality. To do so otherwise is to be ignoring it.

[InfinityGoddess]

Egads, no.

They could stomp their feet and pass a million resolutions and shut the GOP out and act like complete lunatics on this, but they're not. They're caving on most everything, including voting for stupid symbolic resolutions to condemn Moveon.org, and then wondering why the GOP doesn't condemn Rush.



They are trying to pass stuff, but it keeps getting filibustered. Now granted, I would like to see them cut off funds, but unfortunately the leadership is admittedly cowardly and won't do it. So we've got what we have. Best way to fix it is to end the gridlock. (And yes, what they did with MoveOn and Rush both was a waste of time.)

But of course, the Republicans aren't going to do it until they start sweating a bit when election time comes around again and they see their poll numbers going down further into the crapshoot. And the cowardly Dems who go along with them will be facing primaries to shake em up a bit.

[davids]

Egads, no.

They could stomp their feet and pass a million resolutions and shut the GOP out and act like complete lunatics on this, but they're not. They're caving on most everything, including voting for stupid symbolic resolutions to condemn Moveon.org, and then wondering why the GOP doesn't condemn Rush.

The GOP's mindless groupthink annoys me at times (a lot of the time, really) but once in a while it's nice to see a bit of party discipline on the most important issues -- particularly, as BoP has pointed out, they have the will of the people behind them. It's been nearly 7 years and they need to realize that George W is not infalliable, and he's not a king, and more importantly, he doesn't have the people standing behind him.

Kucinich back then - against the war - was a principled position. All of the others - Clinton et al - could take those stances now. It wouldn't reflect the same kind of guts (it is swaying in the wind) but it would reflect reality. To do so otherwise is to be ignoring it.


Yup-well said and true!! Politico wind swaying-kinda like that, poetical and all!

[TheGaffer]

They are trying to pass stuff, but it keeps getting filibustered.

A few things have been filibustered.

But mostly they've caved on a lot of things.

[InfinityGoddess]

A few things have been filibustered.

But mostly they've caved on a lot of things.

Weak leadership will do that, yes. But the Republicans have been flexing their filibustering muscles a lot. Something has to be passed through that filibuster in order to get voted on, you know.

[Jamesaritchie]

Kucinich working to change minds
2007-10-05 06:05:04.0

Chicago Tribune
(MCT)

CHICAGO - On the eve of another grim anniversary of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, members of Congress voted on a symbolic resolution to establish an official remembrance, expression of sympathy and honoring of heroes.

It was the kind of measure on which, surely, everyone could agree.

Everyone, that is, except Rep. Dennis Kucinich, elected and sent to Capitol Hill in 1996 to represent a district that includes Cleveland, the city where he was dubbed the boy mayor at age 31.

In explaining why his was the lone dissenting vote, Kucinich said Congress needs to "wake up to the truth and exercise its obligation under the Constitution to save our nation from being destroyed from the lies that led us into Iraq, the lies that keep us there, the lies that are being used to set the stage for war against Iran and the lies that have undermined our basic civil liberties at home."

For Kucinich, self-doubt isn't a problem, and half-measures won't do. His position on the war? Complete withdrawal, now. Health insurance? Everybody should have it, now. International trade agreements? Abandon them, now.http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-071002kucinich-story,1,585603.story

His positions are actually making sense to me. And if that's the case, it's possible he's gaining traction, because like everybody else, I all but dismissed him. . .until recently. Now I admire him.

In depth article. Worth the read.

It's hard to believe anyone can be naive enough to want complete withdrawal from Iraq overnight. I suspect most people have no clue about world politics, or about the problems this would cause everywhere. It's more like, "Duh, war is bad. Duh, they lied about why we went to war." Almost as stupid as the "The war is about oil" foolishness.

As for health care, do people not realize tehre is no such thing as free anything? It all has to be paid for. The government has no money except what it takes from private citizens who earn it.

We had a revolution in this country taht was largely over taxes, but now we have more than ten thousand times as many taxes, fewer people pay in and support the numb nuts who won't support themselves and their families,, and still people think things are free.

Nothing is ever free. "Free" health care is just another way of saying, "I'm too dumb or too lazy or too strung out to pay my own health costs, so I expect you to dig down in your wallet and pay them for me."

Government pays nothing. Private citizens, those who actually get an education, work hard, and earn their own way, pay for every last thing in this country.

[Celia Cyanide]

Geez, who said anything about thinking it was free? Pay attention.

[blacbird]

Weak leadership will do that, yes. But the Republicans have been flexing their filibustering muscles a lot. Something has to be passed through that filibuster in order to get voted on, you know.

But aren't you amused at the remembrance of how much Republicans hated Democrat filibusters as recently as two years ago? How they threatened to do away with the 60% rule, in order to get a variety of Bush appointments and initiatives passed? You suppose they'd support that rules change now?

caw

[ColoradoGuy]

But aren't you amused at the remembrance of how much Republicans hated Democrat filibusters as recently as two years ago. How they threatened to do away with the 60% rule, in order to get a variety of Bush appointments and initiatives passed? You suppose they'd support that rules change now?

caw
So the generous Democrats saved the Republicans from themselves. That's a liberal heart bleeding for you, Carl.

[InfinityGoddess]

But aren't you amused at the remembrance of how much Republicans hated Democrat filibusters as recently as two years ago? How they threatened to do away with the 60% rule, in order to get a variety of Bush appointments and initiatives passed? You suppose they'd support that rules change now?

caw

Absolutely amused. And very much annoyed with the blatant hypocrisy at the same time.

[SC Harrison]

But aren't you amused at the remembrance of how much Republicans hated Democrat filibusters as recently as two years ago. How they threatened to do away with the 60% rule, in order to get a variety of Bush appointments and initiatives passed? You suppose they'd support that rules change now?

caw

It looks like the Repubs won't need to worry about it until January 2009. The Dems in the Senate have (apparently) decided they can't get anything done until they get 60%, so they're twiddling their thumbs until the next election.

Bring the issues to the floor, and make 'em filibuster until their eyes fall out. Don't give the shit away, for f**k's sake.

[Bird of Prey]

It's hard to believe anyone can be naive enough to want complete withdrawal from Iraq overnight. I suspect most people have no clue about world politics, or about the problems this would cause everywhere. It's more like, "Duh, war is bad. Duh, they lied about why we went to war." Almost as stupid as the "The war is about oil" foolishness.

As for health care, do people not realize tehre is no such thing as free anything? It all has to be paid for. The government has no money except what it takes from private citizens who earn it.

We had a revolution in this country taht was largely over taxes, but now we have more than ten thousand times as many taxes, fewer people pay in and support the numb nuts who won't support themselves and their families,, and still people think things are free.

Nothing is ever free. "Free" health care is just another way of saying, "I'm too dumb or too lazy or too strung out to pay my own health costs, so I expect you to dig down in your wallet and pay them for me."

Government pays nothing. Private citizens, those who actually get an education, work hard, and earn their own way, pay for every last thing in this country.

LOL!! Yeah, you know everything there, JAR. You're a good ol boy, yep, happy to insult your fellow Americans at every turn.

Well, you're outnumbered by the numb nuts now, James, who actually think they should get something for all those taxes they pay, instead of a big expensive, ego-driven war and salary hikes for the king's court staked out up there on Capitol Hill. And us dumb, lazy taxpayers might want a clean environment, too. YEP!! The times, they are a changin, JAR, and you better get used to the fact that people are sick and tired of throwing their hard earned money and their children's futures away on the elite. Yesseree. Those days are almost over, and then you'll have to wallow in equality. . . on par out with us numb nuts for awhile.

You hang on there, JAR. Sorry you won't have a war to entertain yourself with, and poor people to complain about, but maybe there'll be something on T.V.

[blacbird]

It looks like the Repubs won't need to worry about it until January 2009. The Dems in the Senate have (apparently) decided they can't get anything done until they get 60%, so they're twiddling their thumbs until the next election.

Bring the issues to the floor, and make 'em filibuster until their eyes fall out. Don't give the shit away, for f**k's sake.

Actually, they've done some of that, and fairly shrewdly, too. They've brought issues to the floor knowing they don't have the 60 votes for cloture, but knowing also that they'll put individual Republicans on the record, and you can bet some of that will get used come campaign time next year.

They've also forced a couple of Presidential vetoes, most notably the one this week in the SCHIP Children's Insurance Program, a bill that was drafted by the Republicans in the Senate themselves, and supported by many of them. They have enough votes in the Senate to override the veto (something like 67), but probably not enough in the House. So they make Bush veto it, with a patently lame and to some extent downright false excuse. You can also bet that will come back to haunt some of the Republicans who voted against it.

The election is just a little more than a year off now. Democrats are virtually guaranteed to increase their margin in the Senate, and likely to in the House as well, regardless of who gets elected to the Presidency. They can afford to wait; not the stupidest of strategies right now.

caw

[InfinityGoddess]

They've also forced a couple of Presidential vetoes, most notably the one this week in the SCHIP Children's Insurance Program, a bill that was drafted by the Republicans in the Senate themselves, and supported by many of them. They have enough votes in the Senate to override the veto (something like 67), but probably not enough in the House. So they make Bush veto it, with a patently lame and to some extent downright false excuse. You can also bet that will come back to haunt some of the Republicans who voted against it.


Actually, the House Dems are going to work some of the stragglers on SCHIP and see if they can't get more support so that they can override (that's why they're holding it off to the end of this month). Hopefully, Kucinich will come on board this time (yes, he was one of the "nay" votes).

[davids]

LOL!! Yeah, you know everything there, JAR. You're a good ol boy, yep, happy to insult your fellow Americans at every turn.

Well, you're outnumbered by the numb nuts now, James, who actually think they should get something for all those taxes they pay, instead of a big expensive, ego-driven war and salary hikes for the king's court staked out up there on Capitol Hill. And us dumb, lazy taxpayers might want a clean environment, too. YEP!! The times, they are a changin, JAR, and you better get used to the fact that people are sick and tired of throwing their hard earned money and their children's futures away on the elite. Yesseree. Those days are almost over, and then you'll have to wallow in equality. . . on par out with us numb nuts for awhile.

You hang on there, JAR. Sorry you won't have a war to entertain yourself with, and poor people to complain about, but maybe there'll be something on T.V.


Our Bird's on a role I will give you that dear heart-I am chucklin and sucklin and the Branch Water is sweet and all God's er-Bush's chilluns got shoes!!!! The only little nit I have is that although a war hater I be and probably even for some of the reasons that you may disagree with-but numb nuts-No not by a long shot-well-er-um-not yet! Do you wanna hear it kid do yah? Huh huh-What the F's fer dinner Marje???!!!!

[Bird of Prey]

Our Bird's on a role I will give you that dear heart-I am chucklin and sucklin and the Branch Water is sweet and all God's er-Bush's chilluns got shoes!!!! The only little nit I have is that although a war hater I be and probably even for some of the reasons that you may disagree with-but numb nuts-No not by a long shot-well-er-um-not yet! Do you wanna hear it kid do yah? Huh huh-What the F's fer dinner Marje???!!!!

Lol!! Poor Marje's makin some dinners today, eh, Dave?

[davids]

Lol!! Poor Marje's makin some dinners today, eh, Dave?


Yuppers thas fo sureified kiddo!!!!