powerful prologue, first chapter let down [Archive]

Leigh Walker

09-13-2007, 04:23 PM

What to do?

Several of my beta readers have given me the same feedback. my prologue is so powerful that the first few chapters of the book are a bit of a let down. the story is written in three parts with a first person narrative (from the MC) as a kind of intro to each part. the rest of the book is written third person. They say that the prologue was powerful and left them anxious for the drama to start and while the first few chapters were "fun" to read, they really didnt know where it was going until about a quarter of the way through.

I dont see how i can just get rid of the first few chapters without loosing character developement, story developement ect.

any suggestions?

thanks,
Leigh

NeuroFizz

09-13-2007, 04:33 PM

One suggestion is an exercise as much as a suggestion. Don't do anything with the prologue, but write the next few chapters as if it doesn't exist. Force yourself to get the same kind of hook in those chapters as you've captured in the prologue.

(We) Developing writers tend to put way more effort into the opening chapter than in later chapters, mostly because of the realities of the submissions game. However, every chapter should get the same attention and care as the first, or first few chapters.

Another explanation could be the attachment of the readers to your first person prologue. That voice can take the reader deep into the character's mind and body (close-in POV), so they live the scene with the character. Third person can be intimate, but it can also be distant. If you rely too heavily on your narrator, the contrast between the prologue and first chapter could be jolting. Without reading the chapters, there isn't much concrete that can be said, or suggested. Did you consider posting in Share Your Work?

Leigh Walker

09-13-2007, 04:42 PM

I like your suggestion about trying a complete rewrite. I think I will. the other thing I thougt of as I read your post is that during revisions, I completely deleted the first chapter and the second chapter, which is now the first chapter doesnt even have the MC in it....although she is talked about by other people. so moving the second chapter, which is back to the MC POV, to the first chapter might make a difference in terms of people relating to the first person and then moving to third. (if that makes any sense at all!) I think I took them too far away from the MC right after the prologue.

by the way, I have thought about SYW, but I think I am just a big old chicken.

NeuroFizz

09-13-2007, 05:28 PM

by the way, I have thought about SYW, but I think I am just a big old chicken.
You can peck in the dirt or fly the coop. The first one is safe. The second could take you to better place.

ChaosTitan

09-13-2007, 05:31 PM

I second Neuro's advice. Your first three chapters need to stand alone without any help or hindrance from the prologue. During the submission process, agents often want the first three chapters; the prologue goes along with the full request.

Prologues are tricky animals. You want it to be necessary and interesting (and it sounds like yours is), but it also must flow with the rest of the narrative and not overshadow it (therein rests your difficulties).

Also, if you don't wish to post chunks in SYW, there is also a forum for requesting Beta Readers and Mentors. All of the critting happens privately through email. Perhaps a fresh set of eyes, aside from your current betas?

maestrowork

09-13-2007, 05:35 PM

I forgot who said this but I think it was JAR: Cut the first couple chapters -- that's probably where your story really starts.

mum23

09-13-2007, 05:47 PM

When I wrote my first draft, each chapter was really a seperate subject, yet all relevent to the draft. I had titles such as Everyones a fruit and nut case. In laws and out laws (about my husbands mother!) A daddy is for life not just for christmas.

I don't feel I can use such titles for my chapters now, so much has changed. I am trying to keep each chapter as interesting as the rest, so they can alsmost stand alone. A book I am reading could really be one long chapter, it carries on through the whole book. I think the chapters were just to break it up.

I think as long as your WIP has a start finish and end and you know where you are going with it as it's been said. Keep going with what you have. I think in a lot of books, for me, there has always been one part of the book I have struggled with. Persevere.

Raphee

09-13-2007, 06:03 PM

Is it that the narrative of your prologue has a different prose style to the tone employed in the rest of your novel.
I did that recently in my WIP. I put in a prologue that was intense. Whereas in totality it has a different character to the rest of the novel. And I ended up throwing it out. Though from a submissions perspective, it had a great hook.

Leigh Walker

09-13-2007, 06:13 PM

the prologue definitely has a different feel to it, although like I said, I have the MC speaking from first person a total of 4 times (between each section and again at the end). I would HATE to loose it.

I have read the advice on old boards about cutting out the first few chapters and i have considered doing that. but when I do, I find that i have to go back and fill in too many holes or else there is too much missing, so I figured that wasnt the way to go (like i said, the first chapter did get the axe.)

None of my beta readers are writers per say, so while they have been GREAT at giving me feedback about how they feel, they havent offered any suggestions about what to do about it.

Perhaps a beta reader here is what I need....or maybe fly the coop, suck it up and post on SYW.

maestrowork

09-13-2007, 06:45 PM

If your first person voice is so strong and powerful.... have you considered rewriting the whole thing in first person?

Leigh Walker

09-13-2007, 06:52 PM

it actually started out in first person. but I think the story that I am trying to tell cant be told completely from the MC point of view so I changed it. I guess it is something to consider though.

maestrowork

09-13-2007, 06:54 PM

it actually started out in first person. but I think the story that I am trying to tell cant be told completely from the MC point of view so I changed it. I guess it is something to consider though.

I can usually be told from just one POV -- may not be the easiest, but it can be done. :)

The_Grand_Duchess

09-13-2007, 07:25 PM

I agree with the poster who said to start the story after the first few chapters. I mean how nessessary are they? And fear not the SYW. It helps :)

Cranky

09-13-2007, 07:39 PM

I agree with the poster who said to start the story after the first few chapters. I mean how nessessary are they? And fear not the SYW. It helps :)

Yes, let me second that advice about SYW. It's helped me a lot.

Azraelsbane

09-13-2007, 08:14 PM

I had the exact problem before the last revision of my current wip. I ended up completely rewriting chapters 1-3, and doing MAJOR work on 4-6. I ended up chopping 13k by the time my final polish was done (and about 10k was from the beginning). But from what beta feedback I've gotten so far, the beginning is really shining now, at least through chapter 7 (haven't given out the rest yet).

Sometimes things are just better the second time around. Make sure you save any of your old stuff though. Just my opinion.

Edit: Also, I agree with Neuro about trying to write a hook into the first few chapters. I try to put a hook at the beginning and end of every chapter. Keeps people turning pages... I hope. ;)

Leigh Walker

09-13-2007, 08:46 PM

GerriB

09-13-2007, 08:56 PM

Are you telling the right story? To me, it doesn't sound like you are. If the prologue is better than the rest, then you need to re-evaluate your story.

If you're bound and determined to stay with the story you're on, cut the prologue. Start over on the story. Pick a new starting point in the story. Make sure to amp up the tension. Work the information from the prologue into the story as backstory via whatever means.

Honestly, though, it sounds like you've poured your passion into the prologue, and it slacked off from there. Take the time to figure out what story you really want to tell, and then write that one. If you write the story pouring out of the prologue, you may find that the current story has more power.

Good Luck!

BigRed

09-13-2007, 09:42 PM

Basically, it looks like you have two options here...either use the prologue as your jumping off place and write the rest of the book from the same POV (with the same passion that you seem to have had there) or axe your first few chapters and pick up where the real meat of the story is. As far as deleting all of your first chapters goes, I don't think there's a hard and fast rule. If there are necessary bits of background or character development in there, find a way to use them later on. Or just slash and burn and get on with the story in chapter three (or four or whatever). Not an easy choice, but it sounds like it has to be done to tighten up your novel. Best of luck!

Azraelsbane

09-13-2007, 09:48 PM

So I have spent the morning contemplating my first three chapters, and i am starting to think you guys are right (No Way!!!!) Perhaps chapter three, or four, is where the story starts to pick up. I still think there is alot of important character dev. stuff in 1-3, and some of the things that happen in these chapters dont make a ton of sense without the info from the first three chapters.

So let me ask you this. When cutting the first few chapters out, do you take certain scenes and move them around, or is it just goodby to all of it? I feel like I am giving my first born children away....sad. truely sad.

or am i just narcissistically in love with my own writing?

1) You are narcissistically in love with your own writing(story). We all are. Thank God, otherwise it would fall flat. Now you just have to pry yourself away enough to step back and take a realistic look at it.

2) As for cutting the first chapters, I'll give you an example of what happened to my story. Chapters 2 and 3 were about 3k long each. It was a lot of character background/building...angsty stuff that fed into later story arc, etc. It was important that the reader know these things happened to one of my MCs, considering I have a very cyclical style of writing and it all feeds into his actions near the end of the book. Anyway, I cut the chapters and rewrote them as very close 3rd, emotionally jam-packed 1.5k word chapter that hit on all the important points via a short dialogue + anxiety attack. My betas are all over it. They sympathize more with his character and aren't bored to tears anymore. Some scenes went bye bye...they just had to, but I got the gist of those scenes shoved into the good, short piece. Sometimes less is more.

maestrowork

09-13-2007, 10:12 PM

I still think there is alot of important character dev. stuff in 1-3, and some of the things that happen in these chapters dont make a ton of sense without the info from the first three chapters.

You can do char. dev. later. It's better to open the book where the story actually starts. I made the same mistake with my novel -- I thought the story started with the funeral and how the protagonists met, but it actually didn't... It took me a while to figure out the flaws and I cut about 15,000 words.

Those were nice char. dev. and interesting things do happen, but they weren't part of the main story and to be honest, I don't think the readers miss them or think they're missing something.

So let me ask you this. When cutting the first few chapters out, do you take certain scenes and move them around, or is it just goodby to all of it? I feel like I am giving my first born children away....sad. truely sad.

Sure... pick and choose the relevant info and stick it back into your main story. I do that. That's part of writing -- to rearrange things. Nobody says however you first put it down on paper has to stay that way. Think of it as editing a movie -- part of the fun is to switch things around. Cut and insert.

or am i just narcissistically in love with my own writing?

Nah, we all feel this "killing my dahling" thing but once you realize you're trying to make your work shine, you will hopefully get over it. I've cut out a lot of good stuff from my book (and put back a few), but in the end, the book was stronger.

The fact that you're asking these questions and thinking on them means you're open to edit your work to make it better. It's a good thing.

dclary

09-13-2007, 10:17 PM

I had a similar problem with my current wip. Prologue was awesome -- and in many ways entirely unrelated to the first third of the novel. So I needed some way to make sure the first chapter held its own as well.

I blow up and kill my MC on page 2.

I mean, he gets better, sure, but it gets you into the story, that's for sure.

Leigh Walker

09-14-2007, 01:16 AM

Thanks everyone! I think I am convinced that I have some slashing to do. Actually, your posts all gave me some good ideas (and encouragement). It's cut and paste time!

jurched

09-14-2007, 02:00 AM

1) of writing and it all feeds into his actions near the end of the book. Anyway, I cut the chapters and rewrote them as very close 3rd, emotionally jam-packed 1.5k word chapter that hit on all the important points via a short dialogue + anxiety attack. My betas are all over it. They sympathize more with his character and aren't bored to tears anymore. Some scenes went bye bye...they just had to, but I got the gist of those scenes shoved into the good, short piece. Sometimes less is more.

Hey, Leigh Walker, take heart. Azraelbane's advice sounds like what I'll have to do to my story as well!

In my case, a beta reader came back and said, "Couldn't you get the action going a little earlier? Chapter 3 is way too late."

Frontloading data on the MC seems pretty common.

But it'll hurt like heck to chop up chapters 1 and 2! Each one has a nifty, compact scene of conflict that helps define the MC and introduce other characters. But I know neither chapter advances the story as much as setting it back.

J

Prawn

09-16-2007, 03:18 AM

Good new for you: Now you know what they like!

I had a similar problem. My prologue was very literary, but my first chapter wasn't. Betas kept saying, "Loved the prologue!" But nobody loved the first chapter. I spent about two months working on the first thirty or forty pages until they were as good stylistically as the prologue. It was hard work, but when I had the first chunk done, I knew I had something that I would be comfortable sending around to agents.

So if they like your prologue, make the rest of your book as good as your prologue, and you're golden!

spacejock2

09-16-2007, 12:34 PM

Deirdre

09-16-2007, 11:19 PM

Since prologues are often in a different voice than the rest of the work, sometimes it's hard to tell if the prologue is better written or if the prologue's voice is simply one the reader prefers.

That said, if a prologue is longer than four printed pages, I will skip it.

Leigh Walker

09-17-2007, 04:32 PM

spacejock2

09-17-2007, 08:24 PM

If you can work the info into the book without resorting to a prologue, you not only give the info to those who never read them, you also have a chance to make the major characters and their world more real. You're seeing history through their eyes, not giving the reader a voice over before the story begins.

Of course, then you have to work hard to avoid infodump. But nothing's easy.

Nateskate

09-18-2007, 02:29 AM

If they're all giving you the same feedback, there's a bright side, and that's that your book has potential. But again, it may take reworking to get the story to work.

My first Beta Reader was telling me my book was great, like Tolkien, until she came to a battle scene, and then I didn't hear any feedback, and simply had to coax it out of her that everything got gummed up. And she said, "I don't like battle scenes". I read between the lines and realized if I was going to make this work I had to figure out how to write a battle scene that flowed.

It's one thing to have a great idea, but entirely another thing to find a way to execute it. Don't give up. If they liked the prologue then it sounds like you may have a story worth fighting to get on paper.

What to do?

Several of my beta readers have given me the same feedback. my prologue is so powerful that the first few chapters of the book are a bit of a let down. the story is written in three parts with a first person narrative (from the MC) as a kind of intro to each part. the rest of the book is written third person. They say that the prologue was powerful and left them anxious for the drama to start and while the first few chapters were "fun" to read, they really didnt know where it was going until about a quarter of the way through.

I dont see how i can just get rid of the first few chapters without loosing character developement, story developement ect.

any suggestions?

thanks,
Leigh

Leigh Walker

09-18-2007, 03:03 AM

Nateskate

09-18-2007, 10:27 PM

Thanks Nateskate! I am definitely not giving up. I believe in my story and nothing can stop me (except for maybe a bunch of rejection letters, but even then...). i have spent the last few days rehashing the first three chapters, where I feel the problem is. I think it's going pretty good. i have been pretty lucky with my betas being upfront with me. even though they are friends. although i do want some feedback from other writers. i posted on the beta board, so I will see if anyone wants to play with me!!!!

Thanks for the feedback!

You're welcome Leigh. I got so frustrated at one point I wanted to pay some ghost writer to finish my books, because so many parts were great and so many just couldn't come together. It's kind of like flipping a house though. Once you get it fixed, you can really get excited thinking you took this fixer-upper and made it a showcase.

jannawrites

11-17-2007, 08:41 PM

thanks Spacejock and Dierdre! I have skipped long prologues myself from time to time. Mine is only two pages, and I dont even know if it is technically a prologue. It's pretty important that the reader have the information in it so I dont want people to skip it. I might just make it the first chapter. I think I am just going to wait and see what betas say.

Having beta'd through a good chunk of your book (though it's a couple months since you originally posted this thread), I'd like to say the "prologues" to each of the three sections are crucial. Not only do they foreshadow the events to come (which still has me excited), they give us a direct peek into the MC's first person POV - something I always enjoy as a reader. I also want to say, the way you have those sections formatted (as "sessions") is conducive to the flow of the book. I didn't consciously think I was reading an honest-to-goodness prologue, and I had no desire to skip it; I could tell it was important to the story.

Someone above mentioned going first person through the whole book. You'd have to get creative in how you clued the reader in on the supporting characters' backstories, but I think you could totally pull this off. I think it'd be great to have your MC piece together Melody's history through their one-on-one time and conversations, and also through what she gathers from the townspeoples' ways. [I hesitate to go into much more detail here. PM me if you want.]

Of course, as with any aspect, it comes down to how you feel you can best convey the story - your story. :)

Leigh Walker

11-17-2007, 09:20 PM

thanks jannawrites! I am glad to hear that the format of the "sessions" is working. I did try taking them out, but put them back because I like them too much (although i guess that's like a parent saying her baby is the best baby).
as for the first person, I love writing in first person, but thought the story was better told from a different view. As the story is written right now, there are some chapters near the end that need to be told outside of the MC's view, not that I couldnt change that I guess. I also thought about rewritting it, flip flopping between two characters point of views....hmmm. so much to consider!

a million thanks!

jannawrites

11-17-2007, 09:26 PM

I also thought about rewritting it, flip flopping between two characters point of views....hmmm.

I've seen more and more authors doing this, where the chapters alternate POV. It'd take a lot of planning, but it could be done.

MichaelSt

11-18-2007, 07:59 AM

From the title of this post alone, I'd say, throw out chapter one and start again.

Note: I am posting this instead of working on my own WIP, so go figure.

Michael, damned forums anyway, in Seattle.

Judg

11-18-2007, 03:32 PM

This probably isn't much help, but I never read prologues. Too often they're just an excuse to dump several hundred years of history into a few paragraphs, and I'd rather uncover that info through the main characters' everyday lives.

I know from several mailing list discussions that I'm not alone in this.

It's people like you :tongue who made me decide to call my prologue Chapter 1.

The only part of a book I ever skip is the end (which can be 2/3 of the book). But I've given the author a fair chance first.

I will admit I've questioned the validity of some prologues. The ones that are attempting to set the mood with vague prose poetry and don't tell you anything comprehensible at all drive me nuts. But I still read them.

maestrowork

11-18-2007, 08:31 PM

I will admit I've questioned the validity of some prologues. The ones that are attempting to set the mood with vague prose poetry and don't tell you anything comprehensible at all drive me nuts. But I still read them.

Guilty. But mine was only a six-line poem. It wasn't even billed as a prologue. ;)

Judg

11-19-2007, 04:31 AM

That's different. What you see is what you get. I would read the poem, myself. And not feel gypped because it wasn't pretending to be something else.

jannawrites

11-19-2007, 07:50 AM

I, however, would tend to skip a poem.

Wraith

11-19-2007, 05:05 PM

I don't skip anything. Apart from forewords written by other people who just want to sound smart. If the author put it there, I'll give it a try.

I see this has turned into yet another prologue discussion :D.

About the OP, I'd say rewriting in first person would be awesome to try. If you have a gripping voice, it would probably make the whole book just as gripping. Not easy to give all the needed info that way, but it might be worth it. Either way, good luck - sounds like a great story that hasn't found its best way to come out yet. :)

Leigh Walker

11-19-2007, 07:20 PM

Thanks Wraith, I think your right about my story not having found the right voice yet. the jury appears to be out on the prologue discussion, but this thread helped me figure out that my problem isnt so much the prologue afterall as potentially the voice. Too bad. cutting out the prologue would have been so much easier!