Why does this forum have so little traffic?

[plnelson]

So far I like AW, but the main kinds of writing I do are blogging and poetry, and the poetry discussion forums - this one and the Poetry Discussion sub-forum - seem to have very little traffic, like maybe a couple of messages a day. The Critique Forum is a lot better, traffic-wise, but it's not a place for general poetry discussions.

I'm looking for a place where I can discuss poetic forms, typographical conventions, markets and publishing, legal and copyright issues, workshops and teachers, the history, philosophy and social role of poetry, etc - all the stuff that doesn't really go in a Critique forum.

Obviously I can start threads on those things here but the traffic is so low I despair of getting a very lively discussion with lots of points of view going. Are there other more active places to have lively, high-quality, poetry discussions?

[ddgryphon]

Start a conversation and they will come.

[III]

I like to lurk in the Poetry forum and learn, since I really don't know much about poetry and don't have much to add unless I like a piece on a visceral level.

I recommend saying something really snotty about Haskins. That'll get people in the door.

[dclary]

I was going to post a reply here but decided not to, so as to not disrupt the OP's preconceived notions.

Dude, you want to see "no traffic?" Go hang out in sports writing.

[rhymegirl]

It seems to me that most people just begin a topic here and see what happens.

Either that or you could try posting a shirtless pic. (just kiddin', of course)

[poetinahat]

I'm glad you started this thread, pl. You're right -- too many serious discussions go dormant here. There's a lot of play in Critique, but the discussion threads seem to come and go.

Maybe it's because poetry is only a sideline or diversion for most, or they're more interested in writing than studying or discussing it. Also, some of the regulars who discuss it a lot haven't been around.

Of course, discussions run their course, and maybe it's just time for new ones.

We've had a workshop or two on poetic forms; it's been a while, though, and we need volunteers for more.

I hope you don't give up on poetry discussion here; perhaps we just need some more grist for the mill.

[veinglory]

It comes and goes. I mean there hasn't been a post in 'erotica' in days. So is poetry is officially more interesting than sex?

[Unique]

I recommend saying something really snotty about Haskins. That'll get people in the door.


Either that or you could try posting a shirtless pic. (just kiddin', of course)

So is poetry is officially more interesting than sex?

But, wait! There's more! If you post a pic now, flexing your pecs, while insulting Haskins, ignoring our host (hi, poet!)and then invite everyrone to the erotica forum and post lewd limericks - well, dang!

You'll have most of the bases covered and you could charge admission!

quit looking at me like that - it's true and you know it!

[poetinahat]

It comes and goes. I mean there hasn't been a post in 'erotica' in days. So is poetry is officially more interesting than sex?
More interesting than sex, or more interesting than erotica? Hmmm.

Then there's the Western forum. Hey, maybe we should join forces. I mean, Western Erotic Poetry -- who wouldn't want to be there?

[dclary]

I honestly believe that poetry discussions get passed up -- much as most works get very little honest criticism, because most of us here don't feel adequately educated or qualified enough to talk seriously about it, and then on the few occasions we might hazard an opinion, one of the "poetry is dead, just write from your head" crew hops in and throws everything off-topic.

[dclary]

More interesting than sex, or more interesting than erotica? Hmmm.

Then there's the Western forum. Hey, maybe we should join forces. I mean, Western Erotic Poetry -- who wouldn't want to be there?

I believe this forum is held in Nantuckett.

[poetinahat]

dclary: pillar of society, or court jester?... ladies and gentlemen, he's BOTH!

I honestly believe that poetry discussions get passed up -- much as most works get very little honest criticism, because most of us here don't feel adequately educated or qualified enough to talk seriously about it, and then on the few occasions we might hazard an opinion, one of the "poetry is dead, just write from your head" crew hops in and throws everything off-topic.

I believe this forum is held in Nantuckett.
... there is a proposal to move it to Havana this year.

[dclary]

dclary: pillar of society, or court jester?... ladies and gentlemen, he's BOTH!




... there is a proposal to move it to Havana this year.

Every village needs an idiot.

I'm just doing my part.

[Unique]

Every village needs an idiot.

I'm just doing my part.

and you're so good at it, too! That's why. . never mind.

So let's talk about poetry. I like it. I never have had any formal classes in it (high school does not count)

Strophe, eh? Well I say it's a stanza and you can use any terminology you like because... no ... I don't speak Greek either.

aa
bb
bb
aa

and you call it what? Whatever. I like it cuz it rhymes and I don't care who says rhyming poetry is out of fashion - sometimes I want to write it that way and I like it when other people do it.

I don't have the patience to write an epic poem but I admire people who can - (hi brokenfingers :hi:) (he has more patience than I do)

so let's see your rocks.

[Hillgate]

The ink's not dry just yet, my love,
So let us wait awhile;
They're dotting 'i's and crossing 't's,
Their smile betrays no guile;
But hark! What's this? A FedEx truck!
Its motor burns my ears,
I hope its contents are for me,
It feels like it's been years.
The Gods have tried me, yet again,
I cannot breath, I am in pain,
The envelope, it's CAA,
Two million bucks: hip hip, hooray!!!
But soft, the addressee's not me,
Fleeting fortune, hallucinatory...:D

[NeuroFizz]

But, wait! There's more! If you post a pic now, flexing your pecs, while insulting Haskins, ignoring our host and then invite everyrone to the erotica forum and post lewd limericks
I thought these were prerequisites for doing a flounce.

[Norman D Gutter]

PL:

Some of us are just tired of talking and arguing.

Start a thread on a topic of interest to you and see what happens.

NDG

[plnelson]

It seems to me that most people just begin a topic here and see what happens.

I did. I started a thread on whether posting a poem to a critique forum might make it un-publishable in print by certain publications (after being told in a personal conversation by the editor of one rather prominent publication that this was their policy!) . I started it on the same day I started this thread (which has 15 responses by people trying to prove my premise wrong :D). That posting has received only one response so far.

Either that or you could try posting a shirtless pic. (just kiddin', of course) Go to my pnArt (http://pnart.com/)website if you want to see shirtless pics (of my models, not of me). Just avoid the last three galleries if you go there from your work if you work in a cubicile or you might get fired. And I'm not kidding! ;)

The reason why I don't have a a picture of myself in my profile here is because the one I normally use is the one in my bio on my website and I wasn't sure it wouldn't violate AW's community standards.

[dclary]

Actually, upon review... I think part of the problem is that we've got a "Poetry Discussion" subforum here.

What is the difference between "Writing Poetry" and "Discussing Poetry" when 99% of the threads in the other writing forums is "Discussing XX?"

I vote we get rid of the Discussing Poetry forum and merge it with this one.

[plnelson]

Actually, upon review... I think part of the problem is that we've got a "Poetry Discussion" subforum here.

What is the difference between "Writing Poetry" and "Discussing Poetry" when 99% of the threads in the other writing forums is "Discussing XX?"

I vote we get rid of the Discussing Poetry forum and merge it with this one.

I second that! (I can 'second' things now that I've graduated from being an AW "Esteemed New Member" to "One of the Locals". At this rate I'll be a "Crotchety and Annoying Old Fart" in NO time! I'm 54 and I've been a curmudgeon since I was 12. :D)

But anyway why DO we have these two separate forums?

[poetinahat]

I vote we get rid of the Discussing Poetry forum and merge it with this one.

I second that! (I can 'second' things now that I've graduated from being an AW "Esteemed New Member" to "One of the Locals". At this rate I'll be a "Crotchety and Annoying Old Fart" in NO time! I'm 54 and I've been a curmudgeon since I was 12. :D)

But anyway why DO we have these two separate forums?

We already had this vote (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70806). I appreciate your viewpoint, but the question's been asked and answered. And, honestly, is it that big a deal? Both the main forum and the Discussion forum password-free.

I guess not everyone's going to be happy with the way things are done here. We do try, though.

[dclary]

We already had this vote (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70806). I appreciate your viewpoint, but the question's been asked and answered. And, honestly, is it that big a deal? Both the main forum and the Discussion forum password-free.

I guess not everyone's going to be happy with the way things are done here. We do try, though.

I admit to having been ignorant or forgetful of said vote. My apologies.

[plnelson]

We already had this vote (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70806). I appreciate your viewpoint, but the question's been asked and answered. And, honestly, is it that big a deal?

I just think traffic is kinda light - I ask questions and get like, one response.

But anyway, I didn't know about the vote because it was before my time - I'm a newbie, a babe in the woods, an AW virgin, as it were; innocent, unspoilt and unsullied by the desperate struggles and spilt blood that has happened here before.

Anyway, I'll limit my postings to this forum in order to concentrate whatever few fading drops of wisdom and wit I still have to offer before the whole thing comes crashing down around us like the Jets' defense in the face of Tom Brady and Randy Moss today..

[JRH]

Personally, I don't see this as a "Discussion Forum", nor should it be as you have one of those.

I see this Forum as a source of general information on what is going on Poetically overall, and a "chat" and "gossip" forum for those who prefer such, as opposed to any valid meaningful discussion, (and I'd rather see such here than cluttering up the "actual" Discussion Forum.

Moreover, I think that "real" attempts at discussion like DD Gryphon's "Modern Poetry" thread should be directed there, where they can do the most good.

Think about it.

Jim Hoye (JRH)

[poetinahat]

I just think traffic is kinda light - I ask questions and get like, one response.

But anyway, I didn't know about the vote because it was before my time - I'm a newbie, a babe in the woods, an AW virgin, as it were; innocent, unspoilt and unsullied by the desperate struggles and spilt blood that has happened here before.

Anyway, I'll limit my postings to this forum in order to concentrate whatever few fading drops of wisdom and wit I still have to offer before the whole thing comes crashing down around us like the Jets' defense in the face of Tom Brady and Randy Moss today..
But if everybody limits postings, well... where's the traffic going to come from?

And me, well, my wisdom and wit increases with everyone else's postings, not with my own. Don't give up on the rest of us, PL; give us something to think about and respond to.

We all share your frustration, I think; discussion threads die too fast. The best we can do is keep going; if it's a worthwhile forum to have, then it'll thrive eventually. But we all have to put in.

Of course, if the Poetry Forum is becoming irrelevant, then we'll all wander off somewhere else.

[rhymegirl]

We need a new poetry contest! That would get people in here.

[Rolling Thunder]

With all the people that visit OP, I think a poetry contest might work. But only if you keep it light, simple, and on the humorous side.

[rhymegirl]

Go to my pnArt (http://pnart.com/)website if you want to see shirtless pics (of my models, not of me). Just avoid the last three galleries if you go there from your work if you work in a cubicile or you might get fired. And I'm not kidding! ;)

Yes, but those are female shirtless pics.

The reason why I don't have a a picture of myself in my profile here is because the one I normally use is the one in my bio on my website and I wasn't sure it wouldn't violate AW's community standards.

You could use the part of that pic with just you, but not the naked woman because that would be a no-no.

[plnelson]

Don't give up on the rest of us, PL; give us something to think about and respond to.


It's fun to blab about broad topical or philosophical subjects like Modern poetry and the benefits of MFA's but when I ask practical questions like the one about how different poems have to be, or how common it is for print-publishers to regard poems posted on critque forums as "published" I get few responses.

Where do I have to go (on AW or elsewhere) to get practical, useful ideas and suggestions on questions like like those?

There's a zillion little literary journals out there - is there a website or discussion forum where their editors hang out? What if I wanted to start my own literary journal - where would I go for advice?

[plnelson]

Yes, but those are female shirtless pics. A-Ha! - Sex discrimination!

You could use the part of that pic with just you, but not the naked woman because that would be a no-no.She's not that naked. You can't actually see anything. She's got less showing than you can see in an average issue of the Sunday NY Times!

Anyway, her presense and the expression on her face and body language adds immeasurably to my portrait.

[Norman D Gutter]

PN:

So you asked a couple of questions that didn't get the quantity of anwers you want. Quite possibly you brought up items that people just didn't feel like discussing. Or those who might want to have discussed that were away, or busy with life. That happens from time to time.

Then again, since you are new, people simply don't know you and will be hesitant to enter into a discussion you start. It is a sad fact of like that it takes time to break into a group of people, even an on-line poetry group. Take some time to distinguish yourself with your poems and critiques. Get to know everyone and let them get to know you. I think you will find that this is a good friendly bunch, interested in more in writing poetry than in discussing its nuances or its place in the arts world or business practices.

As you integrate with the community, you might be able to slowly change its culture. But berating us for not discussing things is not the best way to do that.

IMnsHO,
NDG

[Pat~]

Hi, Pl. I think it may just be that the Writing Poetry Forum has so many effective subforums--they get most of the traffic, and Writing Poetry gets what's left over (which isn't much). I mean, with Poetry Discussion, Chapbook, Critique, Games, and Book Workroom, there really isn't much else that doesn't fit one of those categories.

[plnelson]

PN:

Then again, since you are new, people simply don't know you and will be hesitant to enter into a discussion you start.



I don't think that's it because I seem to have no trouble getting responses in more general discussions like the ones we were having on MFA's and Modern Poetry.

I think it really is a numbers issue - the questions I asked were fairly technical or specialized so if only one person in 100, say, has that specialized knowledge or experience, what are the odds they will see it here? Let's face it, both of the questions I asked probably require the responder has experience as a poetry editor to answer authoritatively, and I don't know how many editors/former editors we have in this little group.

But berating us for not discussing things is not the best way to do that.
IMnsHO,
NDG

I'm not "berating" anyone - I'm responding to their suggestion that I try posting some questions by pointing out that I did that.

[plnelson]

Hi, Pl. I think it may just be that the Writing Poetry Forum has so many effective subforums--they get most of the traffic, and Writing Poetry gets what's left over (which isn't much). I mean, with Poetry Discussion, Chapbook, Critique, Games, and Book Workroom, there really isn't much else that doesn't fit one of those categories.

I'm not sure I understand your point. Of the forums you mention above, all of them have very special purposes not suitable for asking narrow technical questions of the sort I asked, except for "Discussion" and, at least in the last week, that forum seems to have far fewer new postings than this one, and over its history it's had about half as many total posts as this one, which suggests this is the more active forum.

I like AW and I think that the people here are friendly and funny and it's a good place to have lively discussions on various general topics. But WRT to the business and technical side of poetry - editing, publishing, legal issues, markets, etc - it just doesn't seem like we have the numbers of experienced people to get active discussions going in those subject areas.

[P.H.Delarran]

But WRT to the business and technical side of poetry - editing, publishing, legal issues, markets, etc - it just doesn't seem like we have the numbers of experienced people to get active discussions going in those subject areas.
you could volunteer to head up a membership drive targeting just these folks ;)
we are who we are, all here voluntarily. AW attracts all sorts-if you can think of a way to bring in more 'experts' as you say-and convince them they need to spend some of their valuable time here-we'll talk their heads off, I'm sure.

[plnelson]

you could volunteer to head up a membership drive targeting just these folks ;)
we are who we are, all here voluntarily. AW attracts all sorts-if you can think of a way to bring in more 'experts' as you say-and convince them they need to spend some of their valuable time here-we'll talk their heads off, I'm sure.

I can't - that's why I was asking if there's a web forum anyone knows of where people involved in the small-press literary publishing world hang out.

There are absolutely zillions of these little poetry and literary journals out there! It's amazing - everytime I go to a poetry event I find out about more of them right under my nose. Last year I attended the Belfast (Maine) poetry festival and they had tons of them spread out on some big tables and most of them were from New England, where I live, and I still hadn't heard of them! Most of them are biannual or quarterlies and have small print runs of a thousand or less. (some are just 200 or so) Many of them don't last more than a few years.

I think many writers don't realize when they look in publications like "Poets Market" that they're just seeing the tip of the iceberg. So I figure there's got to be some web forum where the editors and other production staff hang out, talk shop, trade ideas, etc. I've sometimes thought about starting a tiny literary journal myself and I'd love to talk to others already doing it.

[dclary]

I bet there's not zillions.

[rhymegirl]

A-Ha! - Sex discrimination!

No, not really.

She's not that naked. You can't actually see anything. She's got less showing than you can see in an average issue of the Sunday NY Times!

I personally don't have anything against nudity.

Anyway, her presense and the expression on her face and body language adds immeasurably to my portrait.

Uh huh.

[plnelson]

I bet there's not zillions.

Well, that was just an estimate.:)

But if we want to come up with some real numbers - "Poets Market" claims to have over 1500 publications. I know for a fact that the majority of small literary journals I personally see are not listed in "Poets Market", so let's say that for every listed publication there are two that are not listed. That would still imply almost 5000 publications.

Sometimes they're right under our noses. I live next to Lowell MA and up until last year we had two in town - one was published for fun as an underground 'zine by some students at UMass Lowell and the other one was a conventional small-press literary mag that just folded last year after several years in production (in the middle of my subscription, too!)

But new ones start up all the time - I'm on various email lists by former teachers and others and I get notices about new publications starting up and seeking submissions - and you also see these notices all the time in existing journals. (now if I would only get off my @$$ and submit some work ...!)

[Pat~]

I'm not sure I understand your point. Of the forums you mention above, all of them have very special purposes not suitable for asking narrow technical questions of the sort I asked, except for "Discussion" and, at least in the last week, that forum seems to have far fewer new postings than this one, and over its history it's had about half as many total posts as this one, which suggests this is the more active forum.

I like AW and I think that the people here are friendly and funny and it's a good place to have lively discussions on various general topics. But WRT to the business and technical side of poetry - editing, publishing, legal issues, markets, etc - it just doesn't seem like we have the numbers of experienced people to get active discussions going in those subject areas.

Yes, but the history of the Poetry Discussion forum is that it hasn't been around as long as the "Writing Poetry" forum, which has been around as long as I've been here, at least. So it's a little ambiguous to compare the traffic in any meaningful way.

I'd say your topics would fit nicely in either forum, regardless, so post them, and let's get going on the discussion. :)

[Norman D Gutter]

...I think it really is a numbers issue - the questions I asked were fairly technical or specialized so if only one person in 100, say, has that specialized knowledge or experience, what are the odds they will see it here? Let's face it, both of the questions I asked probably require the responder has experience as a poetry editor to answer authoritatively, and I don't know how many editors/former editors we have in this little group.
Yes, but neither of those topics were started by you. One was started by a long-term member. Another was started by someone else who is fairly new. It is a sad fact of poetry site life that it takes time to break in. A few poems, more than a few critiques, frequent participation overall, and soon people are anxiously awaiting what you will post next. Until then, it is a crap shoot as to whether a post you start will interest someone.

I'm not "berating" anyone - I'm responding to their suggestion that I try posting some questions by pointing out that I did that.
Yes, "berating" is too strong of a word. Perhaps "cajoling" would be better. I'm trying to say that it is likely counterproductive to your aims to start a discussion of how little discussion is going on. This site, like so many, go in cycles--cycles of writing, discussion, and seeming inactivity.

You never know what type of discussion topic will seem interesting to whichever group of our members are currently active. Members post in their own cycles. What you posted for discussion now might have interested someone who was active six months ago but, for whatever reason, may have been absent for a couple of months.

I think the best thing to do is post your discussions. If people are interested they will respond. If they aren't interested, just let it go and try a different topic.

NDG