HOW DO YOU GET A SIX FIGURE ADVANCE

[Ty T]

Hi

I have read some posts that say it is possible for a first time author to get a six figure advance. I was wondering if anybody know basically how do you get this, is it purely on how good your book is, if you have already lined up loads of publicity for it, you know what would make a publisher give a first time author a six figure advance

[spywriter]

HOW DO YOU GET A SIX FIGURE ADVANCE????

Write an outstanding book that no one else has, with incredible marketing potential. A book which seems destined to be a movie is also a plus, as is originality.

Now hard reality.....advances have decreased greatly in the last few years. The chances of your first book getting a 6 figure deal are WAY slim. Figure on $10,000 being a good advance.

I hope you get what your looking for, but don't be disappointed if you don't. Just keep writing!!!!

[Ty T]

Oh I didn't essentially mean me, no I'm qutie a way off there yet so if you had lots of publicity lined up for you and your book with the great possibility that even more could come do you think this would help. Also how much of it do you think depends on the publicity side and how much do you think actually depends on the book side

[Ty T]

How would the possibility of it being a movie help
Because surely the publishers wouldn't actually get any of the money from that

[spywriter]

Mass apeal. If your book would make a great movie, the publisher might see its mass apeal poential. The more mainstream your book--men and women like it--the more books will be sold. Not a hard fast rule, just a thought.

I read a great article recently and I forgot who wrote it, but it was about an author who GOT THE CALL and a step by step diary of day one to the day he got pusblished. He is the author of a book called WHISKY SOUR. It was his 9th book, and the first to get published. He got 6 figures. It was really interesting. One of the things her said is that publishers don't do book tours for 1st time authors...said the return is minimal. His marketing did not start until he signed with Hyperion.

[Ty T]

Yeah I suppose

But if your book had all that potential, do you think it would actually go against you

Would the publishers think this is too good for us, we don't want to pay him all this money for it

[spywriter]

Ah....no. If they can make a quarter off of you, you'll be worth a dime of investment. Remember too, that they can pay you 10 grand to start, and if it does well offer you a truck load on your next.

If your book is got that "thing" that captures the rare enthusiasm of the editor, your going to do well. I truly wish you well. I too wait for the CALL. SOmetimes it drives me to distraction because MY AGENT won't call me back! (I have issues).

[Ty T]

So what would you consider a good amount of an advance

What you accept no less than

[spywriter]

That depends. If you know that other companies are looking at it, and it comes in low, you may wait. Personally, I AM GOING TO TAKE WHAT I CAN GET!!!! Once I am published, and hopefully successful, I can demand more money. RIght now, I am a nobody...so are you.

REMEMBER....pigs get fat....hogs get slaughtered. DOn't push your luck Mr./ Ms. Newby.

HOWEVER, your agent will better guide. You. GOTTA RUN...talk to you later.

[aka eraser]

Since this discussion is ongoing on the Writing Novels board, where it's better suited than here, I'm going to close this thread.

Anyone wishing to join in is welcome to visit Writing Novels.

[James D. Macdonald]

Moved from the Bewares Board.....

[Jamesaritchie]

HOW DO YOU GET A SIX FIGURE ADVANCE????

Write an outstanding book that no one else has, with incredible marketing potential. A book which seems destined to be a movie is also a plus, as is originality.

Now hard reality.....advances have decreased greatly in the last few years. The chances of your first book getting a 6 figure deal are WAY slim. Figure on $10,000 being a good advance.

I hope you get what your looking for, but don't be disappointed if you don't. Just keep writing!!!!

10K was always a good advance. I haven't seen advances going down, and most have risen slightly over the years I've been at this. When I started, 2.5K was the average advance at a large publisher, and now it's closer to 7.5K.

[maestrowork]

And how many actually earn out... ?

[triceretops]

Truthfully, I'm more concerned with finding a small five-figure advance. I think $5,000.00 would totally bowl me over if it came my way. My previous book were under $$2,000.00 15 years ago.

Tri

[Jamesaritchie]

And how many actually earn out... ?

If you believe the publishers, about one first time novel in four actually earns out, though most come close enough that not earning out is a fairly close thing.

[Jamesaritchie]

Seriously, first time writers very rarely receive a large advance, and never have. It's usually a matter of luck. Just being at the right place, at the right time, with the right novel.

Unless you're famous, a celebrity of some sort, receiving a large advance for a first novel means the publish either thinks your novel is going to coattail some other novel that's already riding at number one, or it means the publisher thinks it's time to push something, an dyou just happen to be the one that gets pushed.

And first novels that receive large advances are almost always novels the publisher thinks will sell to the mainstream.

Most of this is pure, dumb luck, and doesn't happen very often at all.

[Diana Hignutt]

Oh, even I know the answer to this one:

Step I - Write a great, brilliant novel.

Step II - Get a great agent.

Step III - Get lucky.

diana
(who hasn't even come remotely close)

[brinkett]

Do you want a six figure advance these days? If it doesn't earn out, your star falls to earth pretty quickly as far as a publisher is concerned. I guess if you only care about selling the one novel...

[Vomaxx]

I think Diana is completely right. Especially Step III.

[La Reine]

I would run away from a six figure advance simply because I don't want to deal with the pressures it brings. A four figure advance is good enough for me.

[DivaWriter]

Well, I know of a first time writer in the ChickLit genre who received a six-figure deal. Based on the rules of the board, I'm not sure if I should give her name and website information, but she has a truly interesting story.

I've been following her career (via her website blog) and she is well on her way to a possible movie deal for her second book and it hasn't even been published yet! Talk about fortunate!

That little green-eyed monster peeks past my left shoulder when I hear about her piles and piles of good fortune in the publishing world, but then I realize my silliness and I become happy for her and hope that I can achieve as much success as she has in such a short period of time and on her first full-length work.

She's truly doing her thing! :-)

[Mistook]

I wonder whatever happened to Ty T?

[James D. Macdonald]

If you've written a book that deserves a six-figure advance, even if the advance is four figures you'll get all six -- eventually.

Then your next book will get that six-figure advance...

[britwrit]

(1) Be young and good looking. (Note - this is relative. Think David Foster Wallace, not Brad Pitt).

(2) Have a killer agent.

(3) Live in New York and/or be wildly connected.

(4) The less you actually need that $1 million (i.e. have a trust fund), the more likely you are to get it. So be a rich, Ivy League grad.

(5) Write something obviously literary but nothing too experimental. If you can't plausibly see an excerpt from your novel in the New Yorker, don't bother getting your hopes up.

So, in other words, unless you belong to the .0000001% of the population who can fit into these criteria, I wouldn't worry much about it.

[reph]

Ty T vanished from these forums shortly after arriving. Maybe he figured out that writing was no way to get rich.

[aadams73]

(1) Be young and good looking. (Note - this is relative. Think David Foster Wallace, not Brad Pitt).

(2) Have a killer agent.

(3) Live in New York and/or be wildly connected.

(4) The less you actually need that $1 million (i.e. have a trust fund), the more likely you are to get it. So be a rich, Ivy League grad.

(5) Write something obviously literary but nothing too experimental. If you can't plausibly see an excerpt from your novel in the New Yorker, don't bother getting your hopes up.



Wow, sounds just like me...oh wait.

Actually, I don't want a huge advance. I'd be happy to settle for a modest one and have my book earn out, then do a little better with each subsequent book.

[Vomaxx]

Am I right, or wrong, in thinking that a very large advance to a new author does carry great risks, in that if the book does only modestly well the author is likely not to get more good deals, or even published? What happens when the $200,000 advance book earns "only" $100,000?

[maestrowork]

A new writer is probably better off with a small advance...

[Sara Rachael Hope]

It would probably be better than a buck though...hehe!

[aruna]

Am I right, or wrong, in thinking that a very large advance to a new author does carry great risks, in that if the book does only modestly well the author is likely not to get more good deals, or even published? What happens when the $200,000 advance book earns "only" $100,000?

If this happens, it's "always" the author's fault and the publisher puts you on "watch". You are no longer the flavour of the day. They will take longer to answer your emails. If you are hoping for a new contract they may be very strict in their demands and insist it fit into their concept of saleability; they might tie your wrists and ankles with thick ropes and make you walk the line. Worst case secenario: they may very well drop you if your next two or three books still don't earn out. It's a very precrious situation; that's why I think it's better to find a smaller publisher who sees your promise and is willing to work with you for several books in order to build you. It's better to have a $5000 advance that eventually earns $100000 in sales than your example above.

[Jamesaritchie]

Am I right, or wrong, in thinking that a very large advance to a new author does carry great risks, in that if the book does only modestly well the author is likely not to get more good deals, or even published? What happens when the $200,000 advance book earns "only" $100,000?

Then your next book, if there is one, will receive a 50K advance. You also have to worry about what happens when a first novel with a 200K advance earns only 20K. . .or less.

[aruna]

Wow, sounds just like me...oh wait.

Actually, I don't want a huge advance. I'd be happy to settle for a modest one and have my book earn out, then do a little better with each subsequent book.
It seems to me that big British publishers are more willing to chuck 5 and 6 figure advances at new authors than americans. This is beginning to backfire; read the following article by a major Brit agent, Simon Trewin:
http://www.thebookseller.com/?did=12680&srq=simon%20trewin&sbr=1&dr=2005,08,01-1999,10,01&atl=

I especially like the following quote from that article:



There is a game I often play. It's called "Name the Second Book". The rules are simple: you look at the pre-Frankfurt Bookseller of a few years ago, read the announcement of the "Six-figure pre-empt for début author" and try to remember what happened next. The game doesn't take long, because 90% of the time you can't remember the author's first book, let alone their second.


I can give you an example. It's a book I followed with interest because it has a similar title to my first novel (but published later), and has the samne publisher. I then discovered that it has the same in-house editor, and earned an advance of £125000 - several times more than mine did. What was so special about this book? Of course I read it. It's better than I thought it would be, judging from its amazon reviews. For the genre (chick-lit) it's actually well-written, and it's quite funny and moving even, though too shallow for my taste.
I can understand why they thought it would be a big seller among the chick-lit crowd. But I never heard about this book or its author until about six months ago. For that advance, it should have become a bestseller. It didn't. It is not on the bookshelves, and its amazon ranking is medium. She has written two other novels since then, both of which are equally invisible, and have even lower amazon rankings. I believe that this author is in big trouble; I wouldn't be surprised if she disappears from the scene. I say that without Schadenfreude - honestly! She'll have to come up with something really spectacular for her fourth to win back the publishers' faith, because, in their eyes, she's a faliure. The trouble being that, knowing the publisher has lost faith, the author also loses faith and it's hard to produce a good book without faith. It's a double bind.

[britwrit]

aadams73, can you lend me some money out of that trust fund?...

That's a funny story. Did the editor who originally acquired the book leave? That would explain why the house didn't get behind it. Anyway, that's too bad. It's one thing to be a successful chick-lit/lad-lit novelist. After all, people read you and get something out of your work. If you don't make it, it's not like you can go and teach at some comfy MFA program somewhere. I don't think the University of East Anglia is going to have much call for the author of "Footie N' Floozies".

[aruna]

aadams73, can you lend me some money out of that trust fund?...

That's a funny story. Did the editor who originally acquired the book leave? That would explain why the house didn't get behind it. Anyway, that's too bad. It's one thing to be a successful chick-lit/lad-lit novelist. After all, people read you and get something out of your work. If you don't make it, it's not like you can go and teach at some comfy MFA program somewhere. I don't think the University of East Anglia is going to have much call for the author of "Footie N' Floozies".

No, she's still going strong. Here's the link to the story:
http://print.google.com/print/doc?articleid=Z0Wx9lHPqo4

The author doesn't have to worry, though. She comes froma rich family and seems to already have a career as a fashion designer; the novel is autobiographical.

[britwrit]

Cool link. Thanks. Just from googling around, it seems that her father is "the boss of Hong Kong's largest tailoring company." Too bad for her career but at least she won't have to be signing on any time soon...

[WannabeWriter]

Though six-figure advances are something awesome to have and brag about, I think in the end, it doesn't matter. At least for some people. I'm one of those people who is planning to be a writer as a secondary thing in addition to my job providing the main source of income. In other words, writing is about the pleasure of it, not how much you earn. :)

[triceretops]

That's where it all starts, Wannabe. The love of the craft shows in the end product. Whole lots of love reflects a great story/book. The monetary reward is second-hand kudos, but greatly appreciated for a job well done. Rowling's dream was to a readership and see print, even though her first advance was small. Then magic hit. Such magic can boost self-esteem and confidence to further one's love and skill.

Tri

[James D. Macdonald]

The reason writers talk about royalties is this: There's a strong positive correlation between amount of income and number of readers. We want the readers -- but readers are hard to count. Money, on the other hand, is easy to count.

[Nateskate]

You mean we're going to have to settle for fame? Bummer. Seems like fame and fortune aren't a couple anymore. Then again, obscurity has it's merrits, so what's the point of fame. Oh, bother!

Good thing I'm already used to writing for nothing, and obscurity.

[aruna]

The reason writers talk about royalties is this: There's a strong positive correlation between amount of income and number of readers. We want the readers -- but readers are hard to count. Money, on the other hand, is easy to count.

Very true!

On the other hand, money also bestows the freedom to quit the day job, live where you want, cut yourself off from the rat race - and do what you want, namely write! If all this were available without money then they could keep their advances...

[Sara Rachael Hope]

Yet if you are doing something for something other than $, and you want to do it 24/7 and write when you want to (and not 17 hours/day!), it can be a wonderful way to accomplish a 'mission'. *sigh*

[Four_Elements]

When a publisher loves the book and offers a huge advance, in the end the readers don't always agree and both the author and publisher are left with failure. It's probably better when it works in the opposite way.

[aruna]

When a publisher loves the book and offers a huge advance, in the end the readers don't always agree and both the author and publisher are left with failure. It's probably better when it works in the opposite way.

I agree. But few writers have the guts to refuse a big advance if offered. ANd it takes a few years to get that readership....

[Four_Elements]

With a book that has a six-figure advance, the publisher will pay a lot for advertising, right? I know that an advance of only a few thousand dollars has little to no marketing budget by the publisher.

[James D. Macdonald]

Advertising really has a limited amount of usefulness. If advertising could make a best seller, publishers would advertise the heck out of every book.

[Jamesaritchie]

Though six-figure advances are something awesome to have and brag about, I think in the end, it doesn't matter. At least for some people. I'm one of those people who is planning to be a writer as a secondary thing in addition to my job providing the main source of income. In other words, writing is about the pleasure of it, not how much you earn. :)

For me, it's about both. I've found there's a direct link between how much I enjoy writing, and how much money I make from writing. The more money, the more freedom, and the more money, the more readers. Both are important.

Money may be only a way of keeping score, but let's face it, money is important. Anyone who thinks it isn't has never had the wolf growling at the door. So is knowing your writing has reached millions of readers.

Planning to make no money, planning to make only enough to supplement your day job, or planning on becoming rich, it's all the same. They're all plans, and all pointless. We all write the best book we can, and from there it's pretty much out of our hands. If no one likes the book, you make no money. If a few like the book, you make a little money. If millions like the book, you get rich.

It should not ONLY be about the money, but money is more than a measure of wealth, it's also a measure of how many people read and enjoy your work, and a measure of just how much time you have to do whatever it is you most enjoy doing.

And as Sophie Tucker said, "I've been rich and I've been poor. Rich is better."

[maestrowork]

1. find something you love to do and can do better than most people
2. do it -- better yet, do it for money... lots of it
3. quit when you no longer love doing it
4. rinse and repeat