ADHD a "real disease"

[Pat~]

A new study might be "a milestone" in understanding and treating ADHD, which is now called a disease.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/hsn/20070806/hl_hsn/brainstudiesshowadhdisrealdisease

[Ali B]

I thought it was always called a disease...maybe I'm confused.

[Pat~]

I think it's always been called a disease by doctors prescribing for it, but there has been a lot of healthy debate over the issue by some who believe they've only called it that in order to prescribe for it.

[Ali B]

Oh really, a disease. Before the shrinks were calling it "bad behavior" or "misbehaving" or "attention deficit disorder" and they "shrinks" had a unique brand of behavior modification which required their skills to diagnose and prescribe drugs.

It's racket. My son was diagnosed as ADHD and prescribed a whole list of drugs to help him "cope" with society. Guess what? It's all smoke and mirrors psychiatry. I took him off the drugs and within a few months his attitude improved, his grades went from failing to nearly straight A's.

He's doing much better today without the quacks (or his mother) who wanted to control the behavior of children through outdated treatments and drugs.

My son escaped the abuse and is leading a healthy, productive, life as a teenager.

Wow! Just wow! I know some children are called ADHD when they are not, but some really do have this problem! I've known at least one person, an adult, who has ADHD and was all over the place unless he took his meds.

[Pat~]

Oh really, a disease. Before the shrinks were calling it "bad behavior" or "misbehaving" or "attention deficit disorder" and they "shrinks" had a unique brand of behavior modification which required their skills to diagnose and prescribe drugs.

It's racket. My son was diagnosed as ADHD and prescribed a whole list of drugs to help him "cope" with society. Guess what? It's all smoke and mirrors psychiatry. I took him off the drugs and within a few months his attitude improved, his grades went from failing to nearly straight A's.

He's doing much better today without the quacks (or his mother) who wanted to control the behavior of children through outdated treatments and drugs.

My son escaped the abuse and is leading a healthy, productive, life as a teenager.

I'm glad he's able to be off drugs now; of course, the study indicated that the same gene that causes it also is responsible for them outgrowing it, too. And valid as your experience might be, the experience of one child can hardly be compared to a controlled study...

[SpookyWriter]

Wow! Just wow! I know some children are called ADHD when they are not, but some really do have this problem! I've known at least one person, an adult, who has ADHD and was all over the place unless he took his meds.Andy Warhol?

[ColoradoGuy]

I think most pediatricians never doubted that ADHD was a real thing. The problem has been that its symptoms overlap normal behavior and there have never been any hard and fast diagnostic criteria—no blood test, x-ray, or anything like that to make a positive diagnosis. In this respect it is like other mental health problems that use a list of behaviors and thought processes to make the diagnosis rather then a definitive test. Neuroscientists have already identified actual brain metabolic abnormalities in several of these other mental disorders, and adding ADHD to the list is an encouraging step in figuring out what is going on in the brains of people with the disorder.

We are still faced with the problem, though, of what to do with milder, what we might call possible, cases of ADHD—which ones to treat and which ones to leave alone. As with milder cases of depression, mania, and even schizophrenia, we must ask if the therapy causes more problems to the patient than the underlying disorder does. That decision always needs to be individualized to the patient.

[ColoradoGuy]

It is worth mentioning here what are known in medicine as “Loeb’s Laws,” after a famous physician at Columbia fifty years ago:
1. If what you are doing is doing good, keep doing it.
2. If what you are doing is not doing good, stop doing it.
3. If you do not know what to do, do nothing.
4. Never make the treatment worse than the disease.

[Pat~]

But who is in control of the study? Do they have anything to benefit from publication of results to support their initial assumptions. Was the study scrutinized by other professionals (within the health and human sciences) in many disciplines who might question the outcome?

See, it's like a drug company doing a study on the benefits of a drug they manufacture or have a casual influence on its usage.

Or a tobacco company doing a study on the benefits of smoking.

Need I continue?

Oh, and before I forget. Were these same people the ones who said homosexuality was a disease?

According to the article the lead researcher was Dr. Philip Shaw, a researcher in the Child Psychiatry Branch at the U.S. National Institute of Mental Health.

[aruna]

My son was diagnosed with ADD. I leave out the H because he was not hyperactive; just very easily distracted and unable to pay attention. That gave us a lot of grief in German schools where the curriculum is extremely rigid.
The diagnosis was actually a relief to us, We gave him ritalin and things improved.
But he hated ritalin and the real change came when we sent him to an indeendent school in England. We took him off his meds. At that school they treated each child as an indiviual and each child also got a curriculum that enhanced the child's capabilities, strengths and interests - which the German schools didn't (for instance, at German school he was forced to attend beginner English classes, although he was raised bilingual and was already reading and writing English well).

He did very well in England though even there he got bored towards the end and left before taking A Levels, at the age of 16.

Yes he is was difficult and unusual child but that the problem was not fitting in and the need to find out what really interests him - when he gets to that point he is all concentration, all enthusiasm, and does well.

He was able to make up for the lost school years and got into college to study acupuncture, which he loves and works VERY hard for. He is doing very well now.

What helped me deal with him was simply to research alternative methods of perceiving ADD/ADHD; reading books like Thom Hartman's which study the issues form a totally different perspective.

Hartman's basic theory is that there are two different "types" of people, hunters and farmers, each with a specific set of skills. He suggests a different teaching methods for hunters (ADD personalities).

There are a whole lot of other books I read about the subject, plus the website http://borntoexplore.org/. I began to see my son;s "problems" as his assets rather than think of him as a troublemaker. He responded beautifully. He's a very fine young man now, at 22.

[Anthony Ravenscroft]

Okay, it's been quite a while since I was in college, but I don't feel it can be called a disease.

Sure, "syndrome" maybe. But ADHD doesn't have a clear cause, an onset, or really even much of a development (beyond increasing frustration with the apparent boneheadedness of all the non-ADHDers). If it's organic, the best models I've seen suggest it's a genetic malfunction that begins with the victim's grandparents.

This is the culture that's created Restless Leg Syndrome and Social Anxienty Disorder, & dispenses Ritalin like Pez to kids whose "hyperactivity" can't possibly have any relation to their two-liter-a-day Pepsi habit.

It's therefore rather easy to suspect that for every person who truly needs pharm help there are ten stoned zombies who would do far better with no drugs & a half-hour of group therapy every week.

[Pat~]

So they are trying to link these two behaviors? I heard that from a shrink who thought my son exhibited anti-social behavior and had the characteristics of a potential serial killer.

Dumb ass! I just happened to spend four years studying this phenomenon and knew he was blowing smoke up my ass.

But he read from the scriptures. That was his first mistake.

AKA (anti-social disorder)

Spooky, where are you getting these quotes from? These don't appear to have anything to do with the ADHD research in the article...

??

[Pat~]

Okay, it's been quite a while since I was in college, but I don't feel it can be called a disease.

Sure, "syndrome" maybe. But ADHD doesn't have a clear cause, an onset, or really even much of a development (beyond increasing frustration with the apparent boneheadedness of all the non-ADHDers). If it's organic, the best models I've seen suggest it's a genetic malfunction that begins with the victim's grandparents.

This is the culture that's created Restless Leg Syndrome and Social Anxienty Disorder, & dispenses Ritalin like Pez to kids whose "hyperactivity" can't possibly have any relation to their two-liter-a-day Pepsi habit.

It's therefore rather easy to suspect that for every person who truly needs pharm help there are ten stoned zombies who would do far better with no drugs & a half-hour of group therapy every week.

Did you read the article?

[ColoradoGuy]

Spooky, whether or not your son's psychiatrist was an idiot doesn't have much to do with a study done by neuroscientists at NIH. The whole reason for doing this kind of research is to try to get away from the unsatisfactory diagnosis-by-committee approach that DSM represents.

[aruna]

Here is a page with alternative definitions of ADD:
http://www.borntoexplore.org/addexp~1.htm

Hunters, Explorers and Dreamers...
Different Ways to View Your ADD Traits

Attention Deficit Disorder is ultimately a descriptive label that focuses on a narrow set of negative traits. Over the last few years, a growing number of experts,as well as parents who discover they would have been labeled ADD if they were a child in the 1990's, have identified a string of positive qualities associated with the label. When the positive traits are focused on, an image of an alternative of type of learner, thinker and doer emerges.

To combat the negative ADD label, several people have come up with alternative models like "Hunter" and "Explorer," which are described below.

[Pat~]

Here is a page with alternative definitions of ADD:
http://www.borntoexplore.org/addexp~1.htm

Interesting stuff, Aruna. But I think the point of this article is that ADHD is not just a behavioral trait, but an actual disease caused by a genetic marker.

[ColoradoGuy]

Aruna, what you say does not surprise me at all. I have met, for example, several brilliant manic-depressive, yet gifted people who found the drugs that kept them on an even keel also killed their creativity, so they preferred just to live with their personalities as they naturally were. I assume also that it is entirely possible for each of us to learn to modulate our own inner environment of neurotransmitters, and thus our psyches, using a variety of techniques--meditation, exercise, whatever. Yoga clearly has that capacity.

[Bartholomew]

A new study might be "a milestone" in understanding and treating ADHD, which is now called a disease.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/hsn/20070806/hl_hsn/brainstudiesshowadhdisrealdisease

I have ADHD. When I was like, 7, A therapist prescribed Ritalin. The family doctor prescribed regular spankings.

I ended up getting the latter.

I tried Ritalin a few times last semester when I was having an issue focusing on my math -- the drug made me feel like I was stuffed in a box. I switched to coffee.

[Opty]

And valid as your experience might be, the experience of one child can hardly be compared to a controlled study...

And two studies (which didn't exactly find the same thing, nor anything which can yet be considered conclusive) can hardly be considered definitive when compared with dozens (if not hundreds) of other studies which contradict some of the researchers' conclusions.

Let's wait until others have replicated this research and produced similar outcomes before we start taking one study out of hundreds and considering it "a milestone" or even definitive.


There's so much I'd like to say about this, but the ADHD debate is a tiresome one for me.

I will say, however, that there's a wealth of information within that article when you read between the lines.

The debate (for me, anyway) isn't whether or not there is a neurochemical mechanism which contributes to behavior in a very small percentage of children which can be classified as ADHD.

The real issue is the fact that 90+% of children diagnosed with ADHD don't actually have it and have been piss-poorly diagnosed.

On the positive side of these two studies, I think that if, medically, this definition of ADHD is widely accepted, then misdiagnoses may significantly decrease if an effective/definitive test for neurochemical ADHD can be developed.

[Pat~]

On the positive side of these two studies, I think that if, medically, this definition of ADHD is widely accepted, then misdiagnosis may significantly decrease if an effective/definitive test for neurochemical ADHD can be developed.


And that may be why some (in the article) are venturing to call it a "milestone" study...

[poetinahat]

The debate (for me, anyway) isn't whether or not there is a neurochemical mechanism which contributes to behavior in a very small percentage of children which can be classified as ADHD.

The real issue is the fact that 90+% of children diagnosed with ADHD don't actually have it and have been piss-poorly diagnosed.
Agreed -- if there's a flashy new hammer on the market, and clients are clamoring for it, lots of problems start to look a lot like nails.

It's no more correct, or beneficial, than shoving a fourteen-year-old into AA because he comes home drunk once.

[aruna]

I assume also that it is entirely possible for each of us to learn to modulate our own inner environment of neurotransmitters, and thus our psyches, using a variety of techniques--meditation, exercise, whatever. Yoga clearly has that capacity.

Yes, and this is what he has been doing. Yoga and Tai Chi as well as other martial arts that teach mental discipline have been an enormous help for him, and he had pursued them with a totally un-ADD-like dedication! This summer, he went to a Chinese mountain retreat to learn some of these methods with a Daoist priest; when that didn't work out he moved to India and is now in an ashram. he can't meditate himself as his mind is still too active but he is sticking it out and practicing what he can diligently, as well as doing some volunteer work in a children's hospital.

This is a boy who just a few years ago was in great danger of ending up either a junkie, a criminal, or dead. That's what his German teachers claimed, and I had to live through the nightmare of his rebellion.

[Pat~]

And two studies (which didn't exactly find the same thing, nor anything which can yet be considered conclusive) can hardly be considered definitive when compared with dozens (if not hundreds) of other studies which contradict some of the researchers' conclusions.

Let's wait until others have replicated this research and produced similar outcomes before we start taking one study out of hundreds and considering it "a milestone" or even definitive.


Agreed here; more needs to be uncovered definitively (which is probably why the authors were couching their statements about it being a milestone).

[Writer2011]

In February 1981, I was diagnosed with ADHD--of course back then no one really knew what it was. I couldn't focus, my mind would wander. But when it came to something I really enjoyed, well it was a different story.

Most kids with ADHD tend to have a special talent, whether it be memorizing songs, movie quotes, specs about aircraft, whatever. Now when I say that it's a disease..well yes it is.

Granted there are some kids that are "labeled" (I hate using that term) ADHD and really aren't. Yet there are some who truly are ADHD.

Sometimes you can get better, but re-surfaces later in life (like it did me) That's why I have so much trouble writing. I know WHAT I want to say but can't put it down. Thoughts get jumbled and such.

But I would have to agree that ADHD is serious.

[Joe270]

Weighing in here with attitude, that's up front.

This ADHD is the current medical fad that parents are jumping on to the detriment of their boys. Very, very few girls get diagnosed ADHD. Even fewer get put on Ritalin. A lot of people are getting rich on this ADHD deal.

In the neighborhood I used to live in, everyone put their boys on Ritalin, 'cept my wife and I. They always tried to talk us into it, and had doctor's cards at the ready like referrals got them a frequent abuser discount. Then they all raved about how well their boys behaved. Crap. Why not just hook them on Xanax or 'ludes? The only boy who really needed ritalin needed more, because he was psychopathic. Perhaps he didn't need ritalin, but something more.

Using these ultrastrong mind altering drugs is going to create some real problems in the future. Children are individuals, boys in particular are rambunctious. Let them have their childhoods.

Very, very few children need these sort of drugs. Use your heads, think. Childhood is a time to test, discover, not be looped out in la-la-land. How are these children going to develop under these drugs?

They won't. Then you have a twenty year old off meds who reverts to the terrible twos he never had, with an SUV and a gun. Who will take the blame then, Mom?

[Writer2011]

I was on Ritalin for about two months but was taken off it--I really didn't need it and never had any side effects. But mind you this was 1981 (26 years ago)--doctors didn't realize what ADHD was.

Agreed, some kids are put on meds that don't need to be. But trust me, I worked with Special Education kids--and some of them were truly ADD/ADHD... and you could tell when they weren't on their meds..

[MattW]

While I'm sure the science proves that ADHD is a bona fide disease, that doesn't stop any misdiagnoses or eager prescriptions. Actually, this study could lead to more kids getting thrown into the mix because of helicopter parents who want perfect behavior (or can't discipline their kids), teachers who cannot (or have no power to) control rowdy students, and doctors who care too much what the needs of the parents are instead of the child who is about to be doped unnecessarily.

Now, I know that there are kids who genuinely have problems that can be treated with medication, but treating ADHD as if it were epidemic likely masks the true needs of kids who suffer from a disease instead of those who are simply being kids.

[Bird of Prey]

I think it's more aptly termed a developmental disorder, certainly not a disease. Gee whiz.

[ColoradoGuy]

This is another of those areas of children's health where emotions and opinions run high. Childhood vaccination is another one. Actual data of the sort Pat posted is always helpful because, as Spork said, anything we can do to avoid misdiagnosis is welcome. Having said that, anyone who flat-out states that ADHD doesn't exist is simply wrong; some kids do indeed have their cerebral wiring misalligned in some way. After all, how more counterintuitive can a therapy be than to give a stimulent drug to an apparently already wildly stimulated child and the result is the child calms down. That ain't normal.

[RumpleTumbler]

A friend of a friend of mine has a boat paddle with Ritalin painted on it. I've heard it works quite well.

[Dawno]

I think it's more aptly termed a developmental disorder, certainly not a disease. Gee whiz.

Per the definition of disease, I think it qualifies, just as many other dysfunctions of the brain chemistry qualify.

dis·ease http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/premium.gif http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pnghttp://cache.lexico.com/g/d/speaker.gif (https://secure.reference.com/premium/login.html?rd=2&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.reference.com%2Fbrowse%2 Fdisease) /dɪˈziz/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[di-zeez] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, verb, -eased, -eas·ing. –noun 1.a disordered or incorrectly functioning organ, part, structure, or system of the body resulting from the effect of genetic or developmental errors, infection, poisons, nutritional deficiency or imbalance, toxicity, or unfavorable environmental factors; illness; sickness; ailment. 2.any abnormal condition in a plant that interferes with its vital physiological processes, caused by pathogenic microorganisms, parasites, unfavorable environmental, genetic, or nutritional factors, etc.

[SpookyWriter]

Dawno, that's the dictionary term and not necessarily a clinical term.

[Dawno]

Yes - so? I'm happy to be shown the distinction. Don't just say "that's the dictionary definition" tell me what I need to know to understand why that definition is unacceptable.

[SpookyWriter]

It's too generic. Perfectly acceptable. A medical dictionary gives a slightly different interpretation.

disease /dis·ease/ (di-zez´) any deviation from or interruption of the normal structure or function of any body part, organ, or system that is manifested by a characteristic set of symptoms and signs and whose etiology, pathology, and prognosis may be known or unknown. See also entries under syndrome.

[Dawno]

Thanks! That's much better - still looks like ADHD would qualify...but, I'm just a seeker of truth, I don't even own a white lab coat.

[SpookyWriter]

Thanks! That's much better - still looks like ADHD would qualify...but, I'm just a seeker of truth, I don't even own a white lab coat.So would ego also be considered a disease? I mean, it's a chemical reaction in the brain. Right? Or is it a behavior?

[whistlelock]

See what happens when you don't wash your hands when you go to the bathroom?! Nasty people leaving your ADHD germs all over the place.

[Dawno]

Depends on the ego :) I'm certainly not qualified to say, but my knee jerk reaction is "no".

[Roger J Carlson]

So would ego also be considered a disease? I mean, it's a chemical reaction in the brain. Right? Or is it a behavior?What is an ego? Where does it reside? What is a normal ego and how does it differ from an abnormal ego?

[Jean Marie]

What is an ego? Where does it reside? What is a normal ego and how does it differ from an abnormal ego?
start a thread and see what happens :ROFL:

[Chainsaw]

I'm ADD, but not HD. Just lazy. Dyslexic too, so I don't always catch spelling errors, and that puts me in a trick at times. The ADD bothers me the worst because of my inability to concentrate for any length of time.

jim

[Tiger]

Yes, and this is what he has been doing. Yoga and Tai Chi as well as other martial arts that teach mental discipline have been an enormous help for him, and he had pursued them with a totally un-ADD-like dedication! This summer, he went to a Chinese mountain retreat to learn some of these methods with a Daoist priest; when that didn't work out he moved to India and is now in an ashram. he can't meditate himself as his mind is still too active but he is sticking it out and practicing what he can diligently, as well as doing some volunteer work in a children's hospital.

This is a boy who just a few years ago was in great danger of ending up either a junkie, a criminal, or dead. That's what his German teachers claimed, and I had to live through the nightmare of his rebellion.

Well, until insurance companies start accepting scrips for martial arts, meditation classes and mountain retreats, this type of treatment will be quite beyond most sufferers.

[Jaycinth]

My son was diagonsed with ADHD when he was 5. So I did my best to read up on it.

Let me inject here, that we are not a family that lives on soda and fast food. Until recently I made all meals from scratch even going as far as to grow as much of my own produce as possible. I rarely purchased any cereal with more sugar than Cheerios (frosted Mini-Wheats is a treat to be savored maybe thrice a year) and I even watered down 'Juicy Juice' because of the fructose content.

The first thing I tried was an elimination diet. By using that I discovered that my son was sensitive to grapes. His body chemistry took grapes and raisens and fermented them in his little belly causing him to be 'drunkenly out of control'. So we eliminated that from his diet. We added a lot of water, exercise and one on one time.

Which helpped a WHOLE LOT, but not enough.

I read about the b vitamins and cognative learning so I upped his vitamin intake and added Omega 3 caps. (which thay are now saying people with ADHD should take)
The vitamins helpped a lot more, but not enough.

I got the school to stop giving hard candy as prizes for doing class work, after one incident when the teacher gave my boy some candy and a half hour later he was bouncing off the wall.

But I was still getting called into school twice a week for hyperactive behavior problems.

So we went to one shrink and then another.
Finally we decided to try Ritalin.

I took the dose first so I could see what it did. I actually got focused. So my boy went on Ritalin...but only during school hours.

The psychiatrist helpped by suggesting behavior modifying books, and by explaining to me that he felt ADHD was a genetic trait that helpped our ancestors become human. That sentiment was echoed in a book called "The Edison Trait".

He also suggested a couple of classes that help kids target the ways that they learn and make them work for them.

What immediately helpped was I stopped making my boy study at his desk. He just cannot sit long enough to study. But once he started standing...why he would stand there, using his platform bed as a desk and DO ALL OF HIS WORK, NEATLY!!!. Also his desk was in front of the window. His bed faces a blue wall. The people at the learning institute suggested we put a piece of cardstock with a pale pastel color in front of him instead of posters or a window. The blank wall helpped.

The school also wanted him to do 'remedial reading' i/e they tried to put him back in 1st grade books in third grade because of his comprehension. I insisted he read 6th grade level books so he wouldn't get so bored his mind would wander.

I negotiated every assignment (usually mine were harder) and seat arrangement through 7th grade. The boy took over from there.

By 9th grade he said he thought Ritalin was not working anymore. So I took him off of it, and it was a struggle, but he used allof the coping skills that he was able to master during the 5 years on Ritalin to keep himself on track.

I made the mistake of telling the school, and they freaked and started seeing behavior problems where there were none. So he told them he was now taking a 'timed release' version and things calmed down.

For example: He knows that if he can't concentrate, a two mile run calms him enough so he can study. He still studies standing up, although now that he has a new bed, he stands at the kitchen counter, facing the blue wall behind the coffee maker or outside leaning on the hood of his car.

But the long and short of it is that it wasn't just the Ritalin, or just the behavior therapy or just me spending a lot of my attention, or the food or any one thing. It was everything combined.

And yes, I would have preferred to not give my kid drugs, but he doesn't fault me, he says it is what he needed to help him train himself to concentrate to ignore distractions.


Oh. And for some reason, stimulants do help ADHD people calm down. They first studied the phenom in the mid 1930's. I can bounce in here when I get home and cite the studies in case anyone wants to read them.

But these days, my kid downs a cuppa the blackest joe he can stomach before he heads off to class.

He's gonna be a rocket scientist :D when he graduates from Maryland U.

[Jaycinth]

A friend of a friend of mine has a boat paddle with Ritalin painted on it. I've heard it works quite well.

Yeah. We got one as a joke. Pulled it out about once a week for awhile. Never got to use it.

Oh wait...I have a daughter....

[RumpleTumbler]

When I was married one of my step-sons supposedly had ADHD. I always thought if I could have gotten a human sized hamster wheel rigged up to a motor somehow it might have worked. Clear sides on it that would preclude escape but allow for observation would be a must. Put him inside, crank it up to about 10 knots and let the good times roll. Start the day, everyday, like that for about 3 good hours each morning and I'll bet he would have been good to go when the school bus got there in the morning. Alas, his mother chose to drug him instead. I should have been a doctor.

[Pat~]

We're too lazy in this house to have the ADHD variant...we're just ADD (except my daughter who somehow lucked out). But we experienced a lot of what Jaycinth just described. I think she said it best, here:


But the long and short of it is that it wasn't just the Ritalin, or just the behavior therapy or just me spending a lot of my attention, or the food or any one thing. It was everything combined.

[Roger J Carlson]

Oh. And for some reason, stimulants do help ADHD people calm down. They first studied the phenom in the mid 1930's. I can bounce in here when I get home and cite the studies in case anyone wants to read them.There is a theory called Low Arousal Theory which contents that the hyperactive mind is actually understimulated which causes it to search for stimulation. Giving them a stimulant raises their arousal and therefore they don't need to search for extra stimulation, paradoxically calming them down.

Here's a link (http://www.incrediblehorizons.com/Understanding%20Add.htm).

There is also evidence that chronic use of stimulants (http://www.springerlink.com/content/l61623t781356tx6/)tends to lower arousal levels (again, paradoxically), which might explain why Ritalin stopped working for your son after a while.

[Jaycinth]

When I was married one of my step-sons supposedly had ADHD. I always thought if I could have gotten a human sized hamster wheel rigged up to a motor somehow it might have worked. Clear sides on it that would preclude escape but allow for observation would be a must. Put him inside, crank it up to about 10 knots and let the good times roll. Start the day, everyday, like that for about 3 good hours each morning and I'll bet he would have been good to go when the school bus got there in the morning. Alas, his mother chose to drug him instead. I should have been a doctor.

It probably would have worked better than you know. By the 8th grade my boy was running the three miles to school every day instead of waiting for the school bus because he claimed it helpped him think better.

There is a theory called Low Arousal Theory which contents that the hyperactive mind is actually understimulated which causes it to search for stimulation. Giving them a stimulant raises their arousal and therefore they don't need to search for extra stimulation, paradoxically calming them down.

Here's a link (http://www.incrediblehorizons.com/Understanding%20Add.htm).

There is also evidence that chronic use of stimulants (http://www.springerlink.com/content/l61623t781356tx6/)tends to lower arousal levels (again, paradoxically), which might explain why Ritalin stopped working for your son after a while.

OOOOH thanks. :D Now I won't have to go home and look it up, although I have a different reference.

The shrink told me that some kids outgrow the need for Ritalin when they enter puberty. Knowing nothing of the 'low arousal theory', I just assumed the doctor was right about puberty.

At least he wasn't like a lot of other doctors and trying to keep the boy on it when he'd outgrown the need. He considered it a job well done, and we've kept his name in the Rolodex.

[Roger J Carlson]

The shrink told me that some kids outgrow the need for Ritalin when they enter puberty. Knowing nothing of the 'low arousal theory', I just assumed the doctor was right about puberty.
I ain't saying he was wrong.

[Writer2011]

Jaycinth-- I too was diagnosed with ADHD in 1981 and I had this long list of stuff I couldn't eat--anything with preservatives was out. I had to eat white cheese--all kinds of stuff. It was a royal pain. Again 26 years ago, Doctors didn't quite understand ADHD. But now they have a better grasp on it.

Granted, there are kids that just need a swift kick in the butt.

However, when I was a special education assistant teacher we had a student that was bi-polar..when he was off his meds, oh man he would go off--throwing chairs (I almost got hit by one), destroying stuff. What's funny--our principal didn't do anything about it. "Oh just send him home and let him come back".. It's sad because the school I was out didn't have a self-contained classroom. I won't go into all that.

Anyways, I understand kids who have ADHD since I personally lived it and also have adult ADD.

[giftedrhonda]

My son has ADHD. He's 8. He's also oppositional defiant, which has made school and homelife fun. hahaha

I was afraid of putting him on medication--I was afraid he'd be a zombie, so we did behavior therapy for MONTHS. It didn't work.

We altered his diet and added structure into his days to help him focus. It helped, but not enough.

He's now on a low dosage of Metadate CD, which he takes every morning. It's helped him keep himself calm during school hours, but wears off later in the afternoon. Thus, I have him do everything he needs to in early afternoon, so by the time the meds wear off, he isn't being yelled at for not focusing well or being too excited. He can just be a little boy and have fun.

I've found that regulating his times at home, giving him options on how to set up his schedule, and the low dosage of meds has helped us. Is he perfect? No. But he's a little boy, and he's not GONNA be.

And for me, it makes me happy to see his improvement in behavior.

He's a very smart kid--he just needs a little help focusing. And we continue the counseling, because I think behavior therapy still might be a benefit.

Is it a disease? I don't know. I do know that while it's probably overdiagnosed in many children, treating his ADHD symptoms in the manner his doc and I have has helped him, and even he feels that way, as he's told me before.

My hope is one day, he can get off the meds. But for now, I think he needs to develop the behavioral pattern of staying focused and calm in class. And the low dosage helps that.

Anyway, that's my two cents. Take it for what it's worth. As a mom who had many days of stress, I'm grateful that things have levelled out somewhat. :D

[Jaycinth]

Jaycinth-- I too was diagnosed with ADHD in 1981 and I had this long list of stuff I couldn't eat--anything with preservatives was out. I had to eat white cheese--all kinds of stuff. It was a royal pain. Again 26 years ago, Doctors didn't quite understand ADHD. But now they have a better grasp on it.

Granted, there are kids that just need a swift kick in the butt.

However, when I was a special education assistant teacher we had a student that was bi-polar..when he was off his meds, oh man he would go off--throwing chairs (I almost got hit by one), destroying stuff. What's funny--our principal didn't do anything about it. "Oh just send him home and let him come back".. It's sad because the school I was out didn't have a self-contained classroom. I won't go into all that.

Anyways, I understand kids who have ADHD since I personally lived it and also have adult ADD.
Yep! I remember 'No Yellow Cheese'!

Technically my son has adult ADD. (I don't know if an adult can be considered hyper..no I take that back.)

As I said, he drinks coffee and runs. He just took his Calc. final last week. His routine was study for an hour, run for 30 min, study an hour, run 30 min. Last Tuesday I woke up at 2 am, just to see him come in the house and explain that he was runnig during a study break. During class he takes that 15 min break the profs give and runs up and down the stairs of the math building.

I wish I had that kind of energy.

Oh, and we still keep a 99.9% organic garden, and I still manage to make 5 meals a week from scratch. (Can I help it if my family is addicted to those weird Banquet chicken patties?)

[Del]

Well...

I was diagnosed ADD in the early 1980s. I had a post that outlined my own experiences but...thanks to my lack of attention...I lost it.

But I have to say (again) that I side with Jaycinth and that my wife and I have essentially paralleled her experience.

To Spooky, I know how easy it is to be cynical and angry at the docs for their canned diagnoses. I've spent a fortune on learning what NOT to do. But I know how easy it is to run amuck with the disease and how real it is too. I really wish my son and I could fit into the normal academic and social manners that most people enjoy but nothing has helped. We are different, plain and simple. I take some offense to the notion that ADD is just some convenient invention to prescribe more drugs. It is a struggle to get along in a society that is mostly set up for the normal thinker.

For those that are disappointed in their own (or child's) prescription experiences; I've taken nearly everything under the sun to treat ADD. My reactions to most were positive for the first two weeks but then backslid to non-responsive. My body would adjust to my natural chemical levels, which made it really hard to stop or change medications because it caused me to crash. The drugs aren't for everyone, but that doesn't mean they are for no one.

My best advice is to first identify any potential allergies (my son turned out to be allergic to peanuts, citrus, corn, and soy as well as every tree in Virginia) and then clean up your diet by eating the recommended balance of foods, vitamins and avoiding excessive sugars. Many don't know that alcohol and caffeine turn to pure sugar in the blood stream and should be considered when limiting sugar intake. After you have establish your best mental chemistry then consider pursuing pharmaceutical supplements if you want.

The brain is water, a bit of tissue and a lot of chemical reaction. You'll get out of it what you put into it. You can change a child's personality and their life if you try to force them out of behaviors they cannot help. Understanding the issues, treating them and adapting is the only way to give your children a healthy mind. Take it from someone that they tried to beat into the mold.

[SpookyWriter]

To Spooky, I know how easy it is to be cynical and angry at the docs for their canned diagnoses. I've spent a fortune on learning what NOT to do. But I know how easy it is to run amuck with the disease and how real it is too. I really wish my son and I could fit into the normal academic and social manners that most people enjoy but nothing has helped. We are different, plain and simple. I take some offense to the notion that ADD is just some convenient invention to prescribe more drugs. It is a struggle to get along in a society that is mostly set up for the normal thinker.
No need to take offense. My opinion, your opinion, everyone's opinion is valid from our pov. Do I believe all cases are contrived, no. But from my own perspective I have just enough experience with the establishment to generalize an opinion. Doesn't mean it's a fit-all description of the establishment, but it's still how I feel.

[ColoradoGuy]

Here's one more little bit of interesting brain chemistry I have seen that demonstrates the reality of ADHD. Part of my usual gig is to sedate children with drugs when they need painful or uncomfortable procedures done to them. I have a toolbox full of various painkillers, anti-anxiety drugs, and awareness-altering drugs to do this. Sometimes children have paradoxical reactions to these, become more agitated when we expect them to be sedated. I often find that a child with a strong history of ADHD is particularly prone to have this kind of backwards reaction, particularly with drugs that affect the brain arousal systems Roger wrote about; when I block those systems, they respond with more agitation, not less. The point is, some brains just have an internal neurotransmitter milieu that is different from most others. We can do various things to correct that. This includes stimulant drugs, but it also includes all of the other modalities other folks have posted upthread. Some work better in a given child than do others. The trick is to find the best mix for the particular child.

[SpookyWriter]

Provided that child has a problem in the first place. In my experience it was the ex-wife who controlled our son by the use of mood altering drugs. The "professionals" in various mental health facilities had digested a lot of bullpucky from my ex-wife as a "big" part of their decision making about his prognosis. They were wrong. She was wrong. He outgrew his behavior like a normal kid "because he was always normal to begin with" and is now happy that he is free from drugs.

My son told me once that the drugs made his mind foggy. He was always doped up to the point that he was passive which is just the way my ex-wife liked him.

So that's my story. Your mileage may vary.

[ColoradoGuy]

So that's my story.
Which shows why the most thoughtful doctors never make the diagnosis based upon unobserved reports from a single person. By the way, mind control by drugs is also a huge problem among the elderly--more than one old folks home is kept quiet through the liberal use of a long list of mind-altering drugs.

[Del]

I often find that a child with a strong history of ADHD is particularly prone to have this kind of backwards reaction, particularly with drugs that affect the brain arousal systems Roger wrote about; when I block those systems, they respond with more agitation, not less. The point is, some brains just have an internal neurotransmitter milieu that is different from most others.

HA! Let me tell you...

I had insomnia, no real sleep for weeks. I was going mad with it.

My doctor prescribed Benadryl to help me sleep. I was WIRED! I couldn't lay still. I was up, down, jumping...oh I was angry. When you are that tired and are forced to expel that much hyperactive energy...

I wanted to kill my doctor...at least in the metaphoric sense.

I don't take drugs at all now. They are not particularly predictable for me.

[Del]

My son told me once that the drugs made his mind foggy. He was always doped up to the point that he was passive which is just the way my ex-wife liked him.


I can relate. It is sad when it is the appearance that we are satisfied with and don't consider the actual result. It only harms the child.

ETA: Or old fogy...which I am nearing way too fast.

[giftedrhonda]

Which shows why the most thoughtful doctors never make the diagnosis based upon unobserved reports from a single person.

Exactly. We had documentation from the teacher, the special ed representative at school, the principal, and his pediatrician, as well as my and my son's father's perspectives before my son was diagnosed.

[SpookyWriter]

Which shows why the most thoughtful doctors never make the diagnosis based upon unobserved reports from a single person. By the way, mind control by drugs is also a huge problem among the elderly--more than one old folks home is kept quiet through the liberal use of a long list of mind-altering drugs.I participated and told the doctor that there was nothing wrong with my son. He had a few outbursts with his mom. I think (after talking to him) that she was so controlling that if he didn't behave the way she wanted him then he was a disruptive child.

I had one shrink tell me my son would or could grow up to become a serial killer. I about jump dead in his face and said he didn't know a damn thing of what he was saying. I just happened to spend several years researching that topic for books #1 and #2.

My ex-wife is still playing the victim card and insists both my son and I have mental issues. What a laugh. She's the one taking Paxil, Zolloft, and a slew of other drugs.

What a rag.

[giftedrhonda]

Wow, Spooky. I'm sorry this is happening with your son. :( If you don't believe he has any real medical issues like ADHD, I'd fight for his rights to not be medicated...is there anything you can do? Anyone you can talk to? Can you take him to get a second opinion and do something with the courts?

I hope things work out. It sounds like you're a very concerned dad.

[SpookyWriter]

He's off the drugs now. I took him off the moment he came to live with me in March 2005. Kid is doing great now. Thanks for understanding.

[giftedrhonda]

That's great...and I'm glad he's doing so well.

My eventual hope is to wean my son off them, as well--I'm happy he's responding to such a low dosage.

But if he needs to stay on them, that's ok, too--so long as he's happy with the results, too.

[benbradley]

Agreed -- if there's a flashy new hammer on the market, and clients are clamoring for it, lots of problems start to look a lot like nails.

It's no more correct, or beneficial, than shoving a fourteen-year-old into AA because he comes home drunk once.

I've seen a few 14-year-olds in AA say they are alcoholics. If you're surrounded by people who believe a certain way, you can start believing that way too.

And now that you mention it, alcoholism is also a "disease" whose status as a disease is disputed.

[Jaycinth]

Provided that child has a problem in the first place. In my experience it was the ex-wife who controlled our son by the use of mood altering drugs. The "professionals" in various mental health facilities had digested a lot of bullpucky from my ex-wife as a "big" part of their decision making about his prognosis. They were wrong. She was wrong. He outgrew his behavior like a normal kid "because he was always normal to begin with" and is now happy that he is free from drugs.

My son told me once that the drugs made his mind foggy. He was always doped up to the point that he was passive which is just the way my ex-wife liked him.

So that's my story. Your mileage may vary.

See. The foggy part is something my psychiatrist told me about. He said if the reaction to Ritalin is that the kid becomes hazy or foggy, then they shouldn't be taking it...the problem is something other than ADHD.

On top of that, there was an evil teacher (the same one who gave out candy a hundred times a day then complained that kids were bouncing off the walls) that as soon as she saw my boy 'on task' started campaigning to the principal that they should 'MAKE' the other parents give their kids the same thing.

I said then and I'll say now..the problem was/is her.

People are too anxious to take a quick fix and not look at the problem. And problems have many layers.

I would think that in the case of our bodies we need to look at organic causes for stuff before we start fixing the problem.

I mean, true, you have a broken leg...you don't eat lots of leafy greens and wait for it to heal, you go to the hospital.

But in diagnosing ADHD/ADD..well too many parents go with the school's complaints of 'Your Kid is Hyper, Your kid backtalked me!" And then the school psychologhist says your kid must take Drugs or he/she is going to be put in a class for troubled kids...and then the parents freak and demand that their doc give them a prescription without even evaluating..

once again, as Spookey said... (I guess I get to paraphrase you my dearest Spooky-guy:) )

...that the kids are drinking 5 sodas a day on top of cornsyrup laden juices and foods that are so chock full of chemical additives that Homeland Security should be tracking them. And teachers at an elementary school level are giving out hard sugar candies and more cornsyrup laden fruit juices with loads of dyes and gunk.

One parent had his kid on 5 different drugs...one to help the ADD one to help the hyperactivity, one to help him walked up and another to help him sleep and another one that the doctor prescribed when the kid had tried to hang the cat. By the third grade this kid could not read, could barely write his name, and unless they drugged him to sleep he'd be racing around the house screaming at his brothers.

Luckily, once they started seeing a real doctor and not the one the county psychologist sent them to, the kid improved. Why? They took him off of all of the drugs and put him on an elimination diet, just to discover that the kid had a lot of allergies (mainly wheat related) They changed the diet and not only did the kid improve 99%, but his brothers did, too! The weird thing is one of his brothers DID have ADD, but the younger ones complete melt down masked all the stuff the older one was doing to act out.

But the parents went through two years of hell before they found out.

You know, Spookey. Maybe things would have turned out a lot better had your ex taken your boy running three or four times a week.

Hugs to all.:Hug2:

[III]

And now that you mention it, alcoholism is also a "disease" whose status as a disease is disputed.

"Alcoholism is a disease, but it's the only disease you can get yelled at for having. Damn it, Otto, you're an alcoholic. Damn it, Otto, you have Lupus. One of those just doesn't sound right."

- the late, great Mitch Hedberg