Telepathy/reading minds/hearing thoughts

[merper]

Can anyone recommend any sci-fi or fantasy novels that provide a good picture of a society that's telepathic? Not just a I-can-talk-without-my-mouth-opening thing, but a situation where even your thoughts aren't really secure from the people around you or the people you know. I'm not looking for a top down Big Brother type system either, but more egalitarian, where even the government can be watched back(wouldn't that be great now ;))

Thanks.

[DarthIggy]

Check out the Wayfarer's Redemption series by Sara Douglass.
The telepathy in it doesn't really come to the forefront until the second and third novels and really doesn't play a huge roll. Not everyone has the ability.

Here is the link to the author's site:
http://www.saradouglass.com/atrilogy.html

[Roger J Carlson]

Can anyone recommend any sci-fi or fantasy novels that provide a good picture of a society that's telepathic? Not just a I-can-talk-without-my-mouth-opening thing, but a situation where even your thoughts aren't really secure from the people around you or the people you know. I'm not looking for a top down Big Brother type system either, but more egalitarian, where even the government can be watched back(wouldn't that be great now ;))

Thanks.It's an old one, but one of the best: The Demolished Man by Alfred Bester.

Interesting side note: In the Babylon 5 TV series, the main Psi-cop villian (played by Walter Konig) was also named Alfred Bester in tribute to the author.

[Sassee]

There are some dragon novels that have something like you describe... one in particular, but I can't remember the title for the life of me. I just know the dragons had to guard their thoughts, and they had to be careful about how they "projected" their inner voice at each other lest someone pick up on it by accident (or on purpose).

[ChaosTitan]

Take a look at Peter David's Imzadi. Yes, it's a Trek tie-in, but it has several chapters set on Betazed, a planet of telepaths.

It's also a damned good story. ;)

[merper]

Sweet, will check some of these out. Incidentally, are there any other names that mind reading goes by? I've always thought of the terms telepathy and mind reading as active processes. Is there a different term for passively hearing thoughts like a sense you can't really turn off?

[The Grift]

I second Demolished Man by Bester.

The Mutant Chronicles are about telepaths and telekinetics. I don't remember if they were any good.

I think telepathy as something that is difficult to turn off is enough of a convention that if you mention it once your readers will be on the same page as you.

[JimmyB27]

Robin Hobb's Farseer series has a magic called 'The Skill' which allows telepathic contact. Not quite as you describe - not everyone is able to read thoughts - but Fitz (MC) does find himself needing to guard against other Skill users during the course of the trilogy.

You might also want to have a look at this - http://limyaael.livejournal.com/361455.html#cutid1

[Histry Nerd]

Asimov's Foundation novels have quite a bit of telepathy in them, especially the second and third books. The Foundation's creator set up a second foundation in secret, whose purpose was to study the mind.

I don't remember whether the skills they developed were as intrusive as you have in mind, though.

One of the books, as I recall, also deals with an empath so powerful he can convert entire planets without firing a shot.

You might find something useful in there.

HN

[merper]

Haha. Loved that livejournal rant Jimmy. Thanks very much for that. The only thing I came close to doing was #1, but never capitalized. The discussion had some useful points too.

I think I'll go try to find this Demolished Man right now, since I've been hearing so much about it.

[Ab_Normal]

I (heartily) recommend the Saga of the Pliocene Exile and Galactic Milieu Series books by Julian May (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_May).

I also second the recommendations of Alfred Bester's works.

Norma

[Tasmin21]

You may also want to look at Anne McCaffrey's Tower & Hive series. (the first book is The Rowan) Deals with strong telepaths/telekinetics, and often times touches on what happens with the power when it's not controlled (as in a child with the power, who hasn't learned all the consequences of not shielding/restraining oneself)

[benbradley]

I second Demolished Man by Bester.
I third fourth it, even though the whole society is NOT telepathic, just a significant/substantial portion of it. The MC is NOT a telepath, but IS planning a murder, which is of course quite tricky in that society.

[merper]

Bloody library didn't have it. Guess I'll have to check once I'm back at school. From what I hear, the robber breaks in by running over a jingle in his head, so the thought police didn't hear him? How exactly would you carry out a robbery then? Muscle memory?

[benbradley]

I suppose I can tell more of the story, but it's been a while since I read it and may not even be remembering the story correctly (but I do remember the jingle and the context, it was a theme song to a math TV show, designed to be "catchy"). I should re-read it.


There's a copy on paperbackswap.com, you could sign up (presuming you have books you wouldn't mind mailing to those who request them) and order it, or buy used on Amazon.com, there's a hardcover for $0.54 (plus something like $3.99 shipping).

[Julie Worth]

I think telepathy as something that is difficult to turn off is enough of a convention that if you mention it once your readers will be on the same page as you.

I agree. As a child, I was constantly hearing other people's thoughts. It was a total annoyance. I would even tell them what they were going to say before they said it, not that it would stop them.

[ChaosTitan]

I'd also suggest two of my novels, which deal with telepaths, telekinetics, and Psionics in general.

Sadly, they are only available via my PC. :(

[JBI]

The Chrysalids by Windham.

[Evaine]

The People by Zenna Henderson has something similar. They're really linked short stories, but there's one I remember about a little girl just starting school, and she can't turn off her ability to read minds - so she picks up the caretaker's hangover, and another kid's skinned knee, and so on, and basically can't cope with the sensory overload.

[The Grift]

Bloody library didn't have it. Guess I'll have to check once I'm back at school.


Most libraries will either order the book they don't have or get it shipped in from another branch. Sometimes they'll ship it right to you. Just ask!

Libraries: the writer/reader's best friend. And for some reason I never use them.

[merper]

No time to order or ask. I ship out to university in week. It's not terribly urgent, not like I was planning to start querying next week.

[The Grift]

Roger that. Best of luck at University!

[Roger J Carlson]

I suppose I can tell more of the story, but it's been a while since I read it and may not even be remembering the story correctly (but I do remember the jingle and the context, it was a theme song to a math TV show, designed to be "catchy"). I should re-read it.


There's a copy on paperbackswap.com, you could sign up (presuming you have books you wouldn't mind mailing to those who request them) and order it, or buy used on Amazon.com, there's a hardcover for $0.54 (plus something like $3.99 shipping).You know, I remember the jingle too. It really IS catchy. Now I've got to re-read it. Thank goodness it's right there on the shelf. 95¢ paperback from Signet.

ETA: Gads! This was written before I was born!

[Ordinary_Guy]

Man, I've got 2 stories on the brain but I read 'em a decade ago (or so). Maybe they'll seem familiar to some of you and you can dredge up the name.

One was an epic SF story about two clashing (more or less) human cultures. One side was very organized, highly martial. The other side was a bit more organic – and psychic. Of course, there was a forbidden romantic fascination between the sides respective leaders. Can't remember the title for the life of me, but it was a great story.

The other bit was a short story. Not a whole developed look at a society and culture, but an excellent treatment of what was essentially an undercover psy-cop that went it and sacrificed an upper level shell mind to a group of unsavory folk. Really wish I could find it...

[Anthony Ravenscroft]

Dying Inside is one of the few books to set beside the Alfie Bester.

There's lotsa stuff by Octavia Butler.

[Roger J Carlson]

Just finished re-reading The Demolished Man. It's been years since I read it last.

I hadn't realized just how much Babylon 5 stole from this book. Psi-cops, Psi-Corps as Mother and Father, Telepathy levels (1,2,3). It's all there in the book. The Alfred Bester character is more than a nod to Bester the author, it's an acknowledgment of their debt to him for the whole concept of telepaths in society.

[mscelina]

Anne McCaffrey's Dragonriders of Pern series features both human and dragon telepathy. Is that the one you were thinking of?

[merper]

Another related question:

Any book where the topic of hearing thoughts between languages is discussed? If you're born in China or France, your thoughts will be in Chinese or French, not English, for example. How do authors get around a telepath losing his advantage while in some foreign nation? I'm debating between the character being forced to learn the language(or remain clueless) like anyone else, or reinterpreting what exactly a thought is to begin with. I'm sure strict fantasy must have some scenarios like this, but I don't read that genre much. Any suggestions?

[Sassee]

Another related question:

Any book where the topic of hearing thoughts between languages is discussed? If you're born in China or France, your thoughts will be in Chinese or French, not English, for example. How do authors get around a telepath losing his advantage while in some foreign nation? I'm debating between the character being forced to learn the language(or remain clueless) like anyone else, or reinterpreting what exactly a thought is to begin with. I'm sure strict fantasy must have some scenarios like this, but I don't read that genre much. Any suggestions?

Mental images and projection of emotions rather than fully formed sentences in another language. A combination of those two things would allow the conversational partners to interpret each others' meanings pretty easily without having to translate.

[Roger J Carlson]

In Poul Anderson's Flandry series, the assumption is that only members of a telepathic species could communicate and then only within that species. The idea was that in non-telepathic species (human, for instance) each person's internal language is different regardless of the language they speak. So human telepaths could never evolve. But then they run into an alien who is not only from a telepathic race, but one that is so intelligent he could do instantaneous decryption/translation.

[merper]

So yeah, I thought it was better to dredge up a 4 month old thread than start fresh. I read Demolished Man. Great great book, conceptually for learning about writing mind readers. I love how he did special formatting for people talking through their head, with multiple people thinking at the same time like people do in real conversations. I'm not quite sure what psychological phenomena he was getting at with weaving pictures out of words though, so if someone does I'd be interested in hearing.

Either way, I doubt his sort of formatting would translate well to a conventional non-sci fi book, but it's nice to see all the same. Anyone know of other books which have tried to mimic the feat?

[sunna]

Mental images and projection of emotions rather than fully formed sentences in another language. A combination of those two things would allow the conversational partners to interpret each others' meanings pretty easily without having to translate.

Exactly! And if you're looking for a good example of that, I recommend CJ Cherryh's Rider at the Gate and Cloud's Rider. The telepathy/empathy is mostly between humans and horses, but the way she handles it is pretty damned compelling and utterly believable (IMHO, of course ;)).

[Aslera]

Jane Yolen's Pit Dragan series (good gods I need to read less YA). Dragons communicate through some basic words, but mostly through collections of colors to express emotions. When the two humans are "changed" and are able to do the same, they have to be careful because they can unknowingly project their emotions to each other.

Often it is discussed that the person can pull a mental shield down to avoid projecting thoughts...

[MargueriteMing]

Another related question:

Any book where the topic of hearing thoughts between languages is discussed? If you're born in China or France, your thoughts will be in Chinese or French, not English, for example. How do authors get around a telepath losing his advantage while in some foreign nation? I'm debating between the character being forced to learn the language(or remain clueless) like anyone else, or reinterpreting what exactly a thought is to begin with. I'm sure strict fantasy must have some scenarios like this, but I don't read that genre much. Any suggestions?

Translation of meaning via whatever the mechanism is for the telepathy (it has to actually work somehow).

[MargueriteMing]

Mercedes Lackey's Heraldmage series features telepathy between talented humans, and these cool white horses that are actually avatars of guardian spirits.

[merper]

Fantasy is ok, but I'm less interested in magic transmission than models of a how a real mind would work or could connect. And while we have linguistic abilities built into our brain, I don't think they can do translations. Not to mention, I think the inner voice people use to talk to themselves comes about through the language they learn so the tone and sound of it should be somehow connected to how they speak in real - or at least hear themselves sound(which as American Idol has proven, is rarely what's running through their head).

[Fenika]

Bumping to say thank you to everyone who contributed to this thread. I'm doing research for my own novel (got sick of trying to make everything up in my own head, lol) and have copied most the suggestions to a word doc. Will harass the library this week :)

The dragons in my novel are all telepathic (and empaths now, thanks to my beta's suggestion). Humans can link with them if close enough, but not with each other. Trying to determine how everything should flow has become quite the challenge. The frustrating thing is this is a small part of my book, but I need to get it right.

Cheers,
Christina

[Buddikins]

The Chrysalids by John Wyndham

Already been said, but it's really good with this..

[Izunya]

One was an epic SF story about two clashing (more or less) human cultures. One side was very organized, highly martial. The other side was a bit more organic – and psychic. Of course, there was a forbidden romantic fascination between the sides respective leaders. Can't remember the title for the life of me, but it was a great story.

In Conquest Born, by C. S. Friedman? If so, you need to check out This Alien Shore. Computer hacking, hyperspace a la H. P. Lovecraft, and mental disorders—some of which, in the context of their home society, are not "disorders" at all. And it's just as thick as In Conquest Born, so if you're looking for something you won't blow through in an afternoon . . .

Izunya