Poets and Musicians...

[Pat~]

...are you both?

I'm just curious how many of us that enjoy writing (or maybe just reading) poetry also have some sort of background in music? There seem to be so many correlations between the two, with developing an ear for rhythm, meter, artistry, etc. As I've worked on poems, I've slowly become aware how indebted I am to having had some training in music over the years, both with piano, as well as in skating to musical programs. It just seems to help somehow with 'hearing' or interpreting the rhythms in written verse. (Does that make any sense?)

How many of you poetry fans have also had a background in music of some sort?

[Stew21]

no musical background for me. (other than basic music appreciation in college and the intense pleasure of listening to all kinds of music).
It may actually be one of the biggest weaknesses I have in writing poetry - that meter-thing.

Writing was somthing I could do solitarily, music, art, etc - not private enough and I'm not nearly patient enough. My siblings developed those talents. I stuck to writing.

(y'know, I didn't even do team sports. Running was my thing - again, solitary.)

[P.H.Delarran]

Ohh, you're quick Pat.
Yes, I do have a music background. I began playing violin at age ten. I realize as I work through the redondilla workshop that there is a strong correlation with form poetry and music.

[Pat~]

no musical background for me. (other than basic music appreciation in college and the intense pleasure of listening to all kinds of music).
It may actually be one of the biggest weaknesses I have in writing poetry - that meter-thing.

Writing was somthing I could do solitarily, music, art, etc - not private enough and I'm not nearly patient enough. My siblings developed those talents. I stuck to writing.

(y'know, I didn't even do team sports. Running was my thing - again, solitary.)

Well, hey, a love for (even a need for) solitude is, I think, a big plus for any poet (or musician)! And I think even with 'music appreciation' there's an ear-training that goes on with listening to good music over the years.

[III]

I've written tons of songs and lyrics over the years, although none recently. I don't think I could write a lick of poetry, though. I think it uses a different part of the brain or something.

[Pat~]

Ohh, you're quick Pat.
Yes, I do have a music background. I began playing violin at age ten. I realize as I work through the redondilla workshop that there is a strong correlation with form poetry and music.

Yeah, it was your post about violin in the redondilla forum that made me think of starting this thread!

And see, that's interesting, because I tend to favor form poetry just because I'm more comfortable with structured meter--and yet Trish is such a talented 'blank verse' poet, and that's a form that relies less on structured meter, though there's still meter and rhythm to deal with.

[Pat~]

I've written tons of songs and lyrics over the years, although none recently. I don't think I could write a lick of poetry, though. I think it uses a different part of the brain or something.

I don't know...I think writing lyrics is writing a form of poetry. I wonder, though, if different styles of poetry use different parts of the brain...

[Magdalen]

I had five years in the school band, plus two years in marching band (hated that) all playing clarinet. Later I took guitar lessons for a year. Mom begged me to take piano lessons from the neighbor, but I was a know-it-all teen by then and declined. How I regret that now!!! My son plays violin. I like to accompany him on my trusty Tin Whistle -- the clarinet's pads all need replacing. We do a bang up job on Scarborough Fair and soon we will begin playing it as a round.

There was an unfortunate incident with a ukulele, but I'd rather not discuss it!

[Norman D Gutter]

A year of piano in 5th grade, played trumpet thereafter till out of school, two semesters of classical music appreciation in college, sang in church choirs and limited solos, song leader 3 years in a small church desperate for help. So maybe this has helped me with my meter fetish, and hurt me with free verse. Although, couldn't march worth a darn so I stayed in football as a bench warmer just to avoid marching.

As for song lyrics, I see them as quite different from standard poetry not intended to be sung. Poetry has to stand alone without relying on the music, so the words have a higher premium and the meter must be better. On the other hand, song lyrics must dovetail with the notes and, for best practice, with the voice as well. That convergence of three arts makes me believe song lyrics are much more difficult than pure poetry.

Of course, I could be wrong in all this. Just my HO.

NDG

[Meerkat]

Pat, that's a good question. Yes for me, though I don't find them related. I play the guitar intricately enough in the judgement of others, but cannot make up a song to save my life. I concentrate on the mechanical aspects of the finger work entirely, mumbling my way through lyrics that have earned me the nickname "Seventies Man" at home. Poetry seems to use the other half of my brain entirely, and I cannot picture the two things ever "going together" for me. Hopefully others DO meld these successfully.

[ddgryphon]

Majored in Music Composition in College (and Theatre--see I have no useful skills and am an admitted parasite on society).

Don't underestimate the value of rhythm and meter in blank or free verse.

[JRH]

Hi Pat,

I have 30 credit hours in Music Theory and have been writing Poetry for 45+ years and Lyrics and Songs for over 25 years years, (I play both Guitar and Piano but not up to performance Levels, and create my Songs using a computer composition program that plays back the end result)

Dirk is right on, in his comments

Music and Poetry, (in ALL of its forms) are related by Rhythm and/or Meter, even without taking Lyrics, (which most popular Music utilizes), into consideration.

As for the differences between Poetry and Song Lyrics, they exist, but in their intent rather than in the skills necessary to produce them.

Neither Song Lyrics nor Poetry, if written well. can be considered "Better" than the other, although it must be recognized that they are "different" by intent, and should be judged by how well they fullfill their own purpose, because, Songs are meant to entertain and Poems are meant to provoke thought and reflection. Some few can do both but it happens only very rarely, and it's up to us as readers and writers to recognise and accept the differences between them.

A further examination of the similarities and differences between Poetry and Song Lyrics (complete with some repetition of what's been stated here), can be found at http://www.shadowpoetry.com/cgi-bin/spmb/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=10;t=2993

Think about it.

Jim Hoye, (JRH)

P.S. If any would care to examine an even scarier subject, consider that Music and Mathematics are CLOSELY related because all Music is based on Mathematical relationships between Sounds, (both in pitch and in duration)