Dhalgren

yesandno · Jun 23, 2007

What did you think of it? It's classified as SF, but do you think that sums it up? Do you have any theories about the origin of The Kid or Bellona itself?

If you haven't read it, seek it out! It's an amazing piece of work, surreal, beautiful, absorbing. I should warn the timid: It contains a number of explicit sexual scenes.

sunandshadow · Jun 23, 2007

I would classify it as surreal and maybe post-apocolyptic, but it does have definite science fiction elements like the holograph projectors and I think there was a fiber-optic dress.

I thought it was interesting but should have been edited to make it tighter, it was not as forceful as possible because it was bloated and confused.

yesandno · Jun 23, 2007

Oh, I loved that it was "bloated and confused." I really did! I enjoyed every rambling and dream-like thread that unraveled.

badducky · Jun 24, 2007

i think its a testament to the density of this narrative that even people who have read it are afraid to try and discuss it in a public forum.

abemorgantis · Jun 24, 2007

It was weird.

dclary · Jun 24, 2007

/raises hand at question "Who here has never heard of whatever the OP is posting about?"

Summonere · Jun 24, 2007

Like a chicken bone stuck halfway down my throat, that's simply one of those novels I've never been able to get into, or through. Keeps getting hacked up again and again, no matter how many times I've given it a go. It's the style, more than anything else, that puts me off. Now that you've reminded me of it, I may pluck that one down from the shelf for another try...

Athenais · Jun 24, 2007

Dahlgren hit me like a tidal wave when I first read it, and I mean that in a positive way. I'd never read anything like it. How many times do you get to say that in your reading life?

It opened my eyes to sexuality I'd had no experience with. It showed me what might happen to people's behavior when anything is acceptable and there are no rules (though there are some rules in Bellona, just not many). It made me think about the nature of identity and how we define ourselves. It's confusing, clever, deliberately transgressive and arrives at no conclusions, but it's practically hypnotic in taking the reader along the protagonist's endless journey.

I still think it's one of the most amazing books I've ever read.

Popeyesays · Jun 24, 2007

Delaney is brilliant. Dahlgren is a novel of amazing vision. The only books I have read that hit me as hard were by Norman Spinrad, in particular The Men in the Jungle, Bug Jack Baron and The Iron Dream.

Regards,
Scott

sunandshadow · Jun 25, 2007

Eh. Having read some of Delaney's literary theory writings I'd lean more toward regarding him as flaky than brilliant, although he's certainly very intelligent. His fiction is almost always mind-stretching to read, which I consider to be a good thing, but in retrospect they usually dissolve into confusion rather than resolving into coherence which IMO is a necessary trait of brilliance.

Popeyesays · Jun 25, 2007

sunandshadow said:
Eh. Having read some of Delaney's literary theory writings I'd lean more toward regarding him as flaky than brilliant, although he's certainly very intelligent. His fiction is almost always mind-stretching to read, which I consider to be a good thing, but in retrospect they usually dissolve into confusion rather than resolving into coherence which IMO is a necessary trait of brilliance.

Actually, I find Dahlgren very coherent. The theme which screams through is that even if man rises abouve society and civilization, he will just re-invent it with all its pitfalls and shortcomings.

Regards,
Scott

ChaosTitan · Jun 25, 2007

dclary said:
/raises hand at question "Who here has never heard of whatever the OP is posting about?"

*raises hand*

Anyone want to provide a specific author's name for the uninformed? Amazon link?

yesandno · Jun 25, 2007

Dhalgren, by Samuel Delany. It's the first thing to come up in an Amazon search for "Dhalgren." There are 98 customer reviews, some of them helpful, some not, as usual. The official review is pretty good, but don't read it unless you want a major spoiler.

paprikapink · Jun 25, 2007

Athenais said:
Dahlgren hit me like a tidal wave when I first read it, and I mean that in a positive way. I'd never read anything like it. How many times do you get to say that in your reading life?

It opened my eyes to sexuality I'd had no experience with. It showed me what might happen to people's behavior when anything is acceptable and there are no rules (though there are some rules in Bellona, just not many). It made me think about the nature of identity and how we define ourselves. It's confusing, clever, deliberately transgressive and arrives at no conclusions, but it's practically hypnotic in taking the reader along the protagonist's endless journey.

I still think it's one of the most amazing books I've ever read.

Let's just pretend I said all that ^ cuz it's more efficient than me saying it all over again and it's what I woulda said if I'd got here first.

I read Dhalgren when I was way too young to understand it (although maybe no one understands it) and I knew no one else who'd read it or had even heard about it. I eventually began to wonder if I'd dreamed it. But certain images from that book are always with me -- the two moons, the woman who peed standing, the loaf of bread with one moldy spot...I really oughta re-read it and try to put all those random images into context.

Deleted member 42 · Jun 25, 2007

One thing that helps to understand Dhalgren is to keep in mind that Kid and Delany are both dyslexic, which affects not only writing and reading but spatial relationships in general.

paprikapink · Dec 1, 2007

Months later....

I did re-read Dhalgren; maybe it's a thinly veiled attempt to recapture my lost youth. I thought it was great the second time around too. But I can see how it could try the patience of an orderly mind. It's just not linear...it's almost like the story is swirling around while you read it...it helps, I think, if you just kinda surrender to the random, unexplained flow of events.

And the sex scenes! Whew! I warned my husband not to read it on the bus. Would he believe me? No. Did he take it on the bus a second time? No. I'm sure, however, that that's the only thing that motivated him to get through the book. Hubby's more of a sequential, beginning-middle-end, distract-me-from-my-cares kinduva reader. Dhalgren's not that kinduva book.

Even so, much as I appreciate this book, I'm not tempted to read anything else by Delaney.

blacbird · Dec 2, 2007

I've tried it three or four times. Got about ten pages, every time, before I determined I had better use to my reading time. Had similar experience with a couple of other Delaney books.

Which is not to assert some holy judgment that it's "bad". Like the novels of Thomas Hardy, it's just not for me.

caw

rugcat · Dec 2, 2007

blacbird said:
I've tried it three or four times. Got about ten pages, every time, before I determined I had better use to my reading time. Had similar experience with a couple of other Delaney books.

Which is not to assert some holy judgment that it's "bad". Like the novels of Thomas Hardy, it's just not for me.

Also could never get into it, which is no reflection of its worth. However, I love Thomas Hardy. The first "serious" fiction I ever read was Jude The Obscure, when I was fourteen. Perhaps such unremitting pessimism appealed to my adolescent angst.

Dhalgren

yesandno

stagnationtown

sunandshadow

Impractical Fantasy Animal

yesandno

stagnationtown

badducky

No Time For Chitchat, Kemosabe.

abemorgantis

dclary

Unabashed Mercenary

Summonere

Athenais

One of us

Popeyesays

Now departed. Rest in peace, Scott, from all of us

sunandshadow

Impractical Fantasy Animal

Popeyesays

Now departed. Rest in peace, Scott, from all of us

ChaosTitan

Around

yesandno

stagnationtown

paprikapink

Bored fanatic

Deleted member 42

paprikapink

Bored fanatic

blacbird

rugcat

Lost in the Fog