I'm giving a talk for authors on publishing their books

[underthecity]

Over a year ago I attended a panel discussion on writing and publishing at my local B&N. The panel was made up of two or three local published authors (one was a successful romance novelist) and an editor from WD magazine. This panel was impressive and very knowledgeable on the business and craft of writing and publishing.

The audience was made up of about 10-15 unpublished local authors, and me (I was already published with The Cincinnati Subway). Many of the questions asked by audience members were pretty basic questions, and quite a few, if not all, I felt I could answer myself--but I didn't want to step on the panel's toes.

I've spent a great many months reading messages on Absolute Write, other websites, books, articles, etc on the business and craft of writing. I also have two published books now and feel I know more about the business than the average unpublished writer.

With this in mind, I've arranged with another B&N for me to give a talk to unpublished (or even published) authors in my area on how to get a book published, finding agents, finding publishers, and what to avoid. I believe I've covered all the major bases in my speech outline, which I can post if anyone's interested.

I'd be interested in your opinions on what I might mention in this talk. Much of what I'm talking about has been covered extensively in these boards, esp Uncle Jim's lengthy post on learning writing and the neverending PA thread.

Part of this talk will focus on targeting "traditional" publishers rather than vanity presses, and I will mention Absolute Write and other major writing sites.

underthecity

[katdad]

Well, as a novelist who's recently found an agent, I'd recommend a few points --

1-- Warn about scams, like up-front "evaluation" fees and such. Remind folks that legitimate agents never charge up-front fees, period.

2-- Having patience is a good idea. It takes time getting published or agented.

3-- Approach the process just like someone seeking a job. I equate a query letter as a sort of resume. In other words, professionalism is critical.

From your posting it appears you're well equipped to present the facts. Hope my ideas help.

And please give us a report on the seminar. Let us know if there was something new learned, either by you or attendees.

[James D Macdonald]

Check out the SFWA (http://www.sfwa.org) site for more tips on the business.

Wear your "Mine Is is Bigger than Yours" (http://www.cafepress.com/oftpublished.2216365) undershorts. (Only you and your groupies will know....)

Tell 'em about B.I.C.

[Greenwolf103]

Could you please mention my new book, 365 TIPS FOR WRITERS, underthecity? I would SO appreciate it. It's written for both beginning and professional writers but primarily for the beginning/unpublished ones. There's a lot of pointers in there on novel writing.

[underthecity]

Greenwolf,
One feature in my talk is to stress to the authors to READ BOOKS and RESEARCH the industry before even thinking of submitting their work to publishers. And there are a slew of books that have been written on the subject, including a couple favorites of mine. I submitted a list of these books to the CRM at the store who has ordered the books to make sure they are all in stock for my talk.

And I'm sure published authors who have read the reference books have their own favorites, so the choice of material is probably subjective. Two books I'm recommending are (of course) 2005 Writers Market, and How to Write and Sell Your Novel by Oscar Collier. I had read this latter book many times in the course of my beginning writing career--and still refer to it today. It has a lot of great information for the first time author.

Anyway, I would be happy to feature your book at my talk. The title alone sounds terrific, and it sounds like something I should read myself. I looked it up on Amazon, and it said it was not released yet. My talk is January 13. Is the book available right now? If so, l'll contact the CRM and ask her to have it available.

Does anyone else have any other book suggestions? I once saw a reference to a book on editing for authors, but I never got the title.

underthecity

[Greenwolf103]

Thank you, underthecity!! :) You can find my book here (it was published December 15th):

365 TIPS FOR WRITERS (http://filbertpublishing.com/tips.htm)

I hope you enjoy reading it and find it useful.

[vstrauss]

You might recommend they check out Writer Beware for warnings about literary schemes, scams, and pitfalls: www.writerbeware.com (http://www.writerbeware.com)

The market guide I like is Jeff Herman's WRITER'S GUIDE.

- Victoria

[underthecity]

Thanks everyone for your helpful advice so far. Victoria, I had already included the sfwa.org link in my list, but am also including writerbeware separately (even though it's in the sfwa links page) because it's just so useful.

Victoria, aren't you involved in Speculations.com? I thought you were, but I didn't see your name on the page. If you are, can you provide some insight on how it works now? I used to read the Rumor Mill posts, but now I can't seem to access them. I'd like to include Speculations.com in my list.

Thanks!

underthecity

[vstrauss]

I participate in the Rumor Mill and subscribe to the publication, but that's the extent of my involvement with Speculations. I agree with you that it's a great resource.

For the Rumor Mill, try this link: www.speculations.com/rumormill/ (http://www.speculations.com/rumormill/) They made some format changes recently, which is why your old links may not work.

- Victoria

[underthecity]

Thanks Victoria, I found the Rumor Mill. Great stuff in there.

My talk is Thursday, January 13. I have one more question for anyone who wants to fully explain this.

I've read various posts and <a href="http://pricelineandthemedia.com/doc/aboutpa.html" target="_new">this article</a> (courtesy of Dave K in the long PA thread) about how supposedly publishers will be gradually shifting over to the POD process instead of the offset method. I know that some people believe that this will be the trend in the near future, while at the same time a lot of other people believe it definitely WON'T be.

So I can explain it to this group who may have heard the rumors as to why traditional publishers might be printing their books via the POD method, why do most professionals believe that this trend WON'T be happening? Why will publishers be sticking to the traditional offset printing method?

Thanks!

underthecity

[James D Macdonald]

First, understand that POD is a business model.

I think you're asking about digital printing versus offset printing.

Digital printing is low setup cost, short-run printing. If you're printing more than just a few, offset has a huge price advantage.

Publishers use digital printing for short runs, if it provides price and time advantages. Otherwise they use offset.

See this list for <a href="http://www.sff.net/people/doylemacdonald/publishing.htm" target="_new">book publishing company</a> definitions.

That article you link to there has many, many errors of fact and interpretation in it. Be wary.

[vstrauss]

One reason it isn't happening now is because at larger volumes, POD has a higher per-unit cost than offset. If you're printing more than (I think) 1,000 copies, it's cheaper to use offset, because of economies of scale.

POD's great for small runs, or for keeping lower-selling books in print, or as a way for small publishers to trade lower startup costs against a smaller per-book profit (if they try to keep their prices in line with those of other publishers). For volume, though, offset is still the way to go.

- Victoria

[James D Macdonald]

If you're printing more than (I think) 1,000 copies, it's cheaper to use offset....

My understanding is that the tipping point is somewhere in the low three digits. Get quotes from various digital printers and offset printers with your specs to be sure.

[pianoman5]

It will be interesting to see how the Print-On-Demand model plays out over the next few years as the inevitable economies of scale in digital printing technology reduce the cost of short/medium run printing.

Errors of fact in Denny Hatch's article (http://pricelineandthemedia.com/doc/aboutpa.html) notwithstanding, he does make some extremely pertinent points about the 'cockamamie business model' that makes traditional publishing so tenuous.

Like many other manufacturers, publishers have to gamble on the anticipated sales of a new product and then commission printing of batches sized to give them the lowest cost-per-unit consistent with (the essentially unknowable) demand. But unlike most manufacturers, as well as any product they can't wholesale they also have to accept retail returns. It's a calculated risk, for which there are no calculations. Sure, with King, Rowling, Grisham or any author where reprints happen and the eventual proportion of unsold copies is very small, it's not a big issue, but for authors selling in the 5-10-20 thousand copies range it's very easy to get it wrong and be left with thousands of unsold copies that swallow up any profit made on actual sales. Warehousing the things in the vain hope of disposing of them at full price before they're remaindered is yet another cost.

That's why the big publishers, beancounter-dominated companies as they are, are reputedly losing interest in their midlist authors.

If the cost of medium-run digital printing falls sufficiently in future to approach the economy of offset printing, the greatly minimised risks of printing smaller batches according to actual demand rather than 'best guess' will make publishing a much easier business to manage from an employed-capital standpoint. This will permit the entry of more publishers into the market, and should lead to more books being published, especially the more marginal market propositions. This can only be A Good Thing from the modestly-successful author's point of view.

Of course, the problem of getting shelf-space in booksellers remains the same, along with all the other issues connected with promotion and distribution. But the trend would dramatically change the equation in the publisher's favour with regard to making a profit, or at least not making a loss.

Those with a vested interest in the status-quo of the book business - the big publishers who have swallowed up the smaller ones that didn't have enough capital to survive, and the big offset printers who print for them - are naturally nervous about a future that sees their cartel weakened. Therefore expect to hear propaganda from them in the near future about 'lamentable lapse of quality' and 'too much slush hitting the market'.

I hope they realise before too long that demand-based printing (for other than blockbuster authors), while reducing their stranglehold on the industry would actually increase their profits. If they get behind it, the potential economies of scale will happen sooner rather than later.

[James D Macdonald]

Errors of fact in Denny Hatch's article notwithstanding, he does make some extremely pertinent points about the 'cockamamie business model' that makes traditional publishing so tenuous

Some of the biggest errors in Denny's article are in exactly that portion of it.

[sc211]

For books to recommend, I'd suggest The Writer's Market Companion.

Also, I think Self-Editing for Fiction Writers, by Renni Browne, is the book you were thinking of.

I'd be interested to see the list of books and sites you've come up with. Actually, seeing the whole speech would be great.

[underthecity]

Thanks everyone for the replies, especially James and Victoria. Your two answers were just the information I was looking for. And no, I didn't hold much stock in that article, but it did address an issue regarding POD that I wasn't sure about, which was why I posted.

Here's the speech outline, which I have been updating on a semi-daily basis. Some of the formatting might be weird.

Speech outline

Is anyone published in anything? Articles, books, etc?

How long have you been writing?

Can you write? Mechanics? Grammar? Style? Elements of Style

No need for college degree, writing classes will help.

Brief background on me
Cincinnati Subway
Cincinnati on the Go
Upcoming works
Radio Magazine articles

Write fiction or nonfiction?

How tough is it for unpublished author to get published?
It can be hard, but it is not impossible. First you have to have good work. Then, the key is to identify the right publisher or agent with your work.

Build portfolio: write articles for magazines, newspapers. Show that your words are publishable, and can make money.
These are “publishing credits.” Although writing for free is good writing practice, it does not make a good published credit. Writing for ¼ cent a word, or for free copies of a literary magazine (or even worse—mentioning a blog), or self-publishing anything, are not good published credits. Leave these off a resume or query.

Research the business before submitting. Books from library or bookstore FIRST. Educate yourself on business before asking questions.
Online bulletin boards: Writers.net, Absolute Write


Fiction
More difficult for unpublished authors, but IS possible, see Nathan Singer (my cousin, author of A Prayer for Dawn)
Large publishers versus small publishers
Have patience. It takes much time to find publisher or agent.
Be professional, approach it as if you were seeking a job.
Note: Typical authors’ first books don’t sell, even if you think it’s wonderful.

Nonfiction
Much easier (but not guaranteed) for unpublished author
“Write what you know” see book

Writing
Write, rewrite, rewrite, rewrite.
Let manuscript sit for month.
Reread, rewrite. You’ll find mistakes you missed before. You’ll always find parts you would want different.

Editing: line editing, look for grammar mistakes, misspellings, incorrect information, clichés, Take each line separately. Look for long sentences and adverbs (she said, quietly).
Do not have ms “professionally edited” before submitting. Not necessary. Do editing yourself, make it best you can. Publishers will edit after they receive ms, and most (if not all) will edit according to style and/or format of publisher.
Editing is a GOOD THING! Your words are not sacred, and all manuscripts must go through editing to fix problems and things everyone will miss.

Never contact published author (Michael Crichton, Stephen King) to ask to read work.

On copyright: No need to put “copyright author, 2005) on work submitted. It makes author look like uneducated amateur, turns off editor or agent. Don’t mail yourself a copy of ms and not open envelope. That is a very old myth. Instead, computer records show when a ms was written, and can be used in court to prove copyright.


Fantasy author Victoria Strauss says: “You don't need to register copyright for unpublished work. You're covered by copyright law from the moment you write the words down; registering copyright doesn't give you any additional protection. All it does is make it possible to sue in court if your work is infringed--but no one is going to steal or plagiarize it before it's published. Theft of unpublished work is so rare as to be functionally nonexistent, no matter what horror stories you've heard.

Commercial publishers pay for copyright registration.”


Agents
How to find an agent
Writers Market
LMP Literary Market Place
Find agent in book, research online, call if must.
Find books with similar theme, look in acknowledgements for agents
Never pay fee to an agent.

Quote from Andrew Zack, reputable literary agent:
“I give no credit to publication by PublishAmerica and it probably discourages me from taking someone on. Being published badly is worse than not being published at all. These books are on Amazon and at bn.com. There's a sales track being recorded. And it probably stinks. An author with a bad track record is harder to sell than an author with no track record at all.”

Finding a publisher
Writers Market
Always follow guidelines in Writers Market
Study WM for info on correct cover letter formatting, etc.
Read other books on writing cover letters.
Seek similar topics in bookstore, target those publishers.
Large house or small? Perhaps start small


Publish on Demand, Vanity Press
Definition: usually you pay to have book printed, you distribute.
Publish America, AuthorHouse, XLibris, IUniverse
Problems:
No distribution, you do all of it yourself
Little to no promotion
Author must do all work
You might sell a few hundred copies
POD/vanity don’t accept returns.
Poor discounts to bookstores/distributors
Poor editing, or none at all
Higher cover prices
Poor book quality
Agents and publishers don’t consider a POD or vanity to be published at all. Many advise not to mention it when querying.
Stigma about POD or vanity: allows anything to be published, regardless of quality. Not the same if you pay to be published, a lot of authors and publishers look down at vanity. POD or vanity is taking easy route, and is often seen as “last resort.” It also allows a lot of crap to get published next to quality work.

When Vanity or POD is reasonable option:
Poetry
Short stories—publishing houses generally don’t publish collections of short stories by unknown authors.
Family history: written only for a few people
Nonfiction on very narrow topic, for limited audience
See Well Fed Writer, Back for Seconds

Not good for fiction
Avoid avoid avoid.


Submittal process
Follow guidelines exactly
Write excellent cover letter
If rejected
Normal to get rejected, possibly many many times.
Keep writing while waiting for responses
Sometimes rejection letters have helpful advice
Try to find pattern in rejection letters
Might be publishers who aren’t looking for that story right now
Publisher might already have published things like that
Unsolicited, might need agent
Slush pile
Something could be wrong with manuscript. It could be you after all.
What to do next if fail: Put unsold manuscript in bottom drawer, keep writing.
If future book sells, previous manuscript might sell next. Or might be bad.


Found a publisher
Need agent? Or lawyer?
Read contract carefully
Advances
Paid based on projected sales. Could be $5,000, $10,000, 50,000, any amount.
Advance taken from royalties.
You do not pay back advance if book fails to sell.

Promotion
Most publishers do basic promotion:
To bookstores, to press, magazines.
Depending on author or book, publisher might set up tour. Probably not.
Publisher may provide posters, bookmarks, postcards
Publisher has many other books, cannot actively promote every one.
Author may have to do own promotions
Booksignings, bookmarks, press
Website, web presence
The more author can do himself, the better.

Best way to promote is to write a second book. People who bought the first and liked it will want to buy the second.

Making a living at writing
Copywriting
Freelance writing for magazines
Need full or part time job, and/or spouse who works full time and is very understanding.
Only way to make money from books is to write a lot of them, and get advances.

Ebooks
Industry failure
Most books are still sold in real bookstores, online sales are much fewer
Many eBooks require special software to read.
Many eBooks cost more than the real thing



Online resources

Publishermarketplace.com
Absolutewrite.com
Writers.net
Anotherrealm.com/prededitors
Speculations.com (for sf, horror, or other speculative fiction) Rumor Mill www.speculations.com/rumormill/?z=74078
Sfwa.org—many useful articles to read
Writersbeware.com (found on sfwa.org)

Recommended Titles

2005 Writers Market
How to Write and Sell Your First Novel, Oscar Collier
Writing the Popular Novel, Loren Estleman
On Writing, Stephen King
Everything Guide to Writing a Novel, Joyce and Jim Lavene
Complete Handbook of Novel Writing, WD Book
Novel Writers Toolkit, WD Book
365 Tips for Writers
Damn Why Didn’t I Write That

[James D Macdonald]

I'd quibble with one point:

Short stories—publishing houses generally don’t publish collections of short stories by unknown authors.

The reason legitimate publishers don't like to print those is because the readers are unlikely to buy 'em. Self-or-vanity publication isn't going to change that.

A better choice would be to take those same short stories and sell them to regular magazines and anthologies. Later, when it comes time to make a collection all your own, you won't be an unknown author. (Look around at the collections in the bookstores -- they're all reprints, aren't they?)

[underthecity]

James,
Excellent point about the short stories collections. This is why I seek your wisdom.

I will include your information.

Thanks!

underthecity

[sc211]

Excellent outline. And I didn't even have to sit in a folded chair to hear it.:D

I especially liked the quote on how "Being published badly is worse than not being published at all."

A friend of mine just asked me to go with her to a talk given by a guy from PushButtonPress, and I checked their website and told her that she shouldn't pay a grand to have her book published. She said, "Publishers will take a better look at a book if it's already published."

I told her the mantra of this site, "Money flows towards the writer," and while she didn't listen, I can now can pass along that quote as well.

To round out your list, two more books you might mention are

Telling Lies for Fun and Profit, by Lawrence Block
The best tales-from-the-front-lines overview of the writing life and craft, with a great intro by Sue Grafton

Crafting Stories for Children, by Nancy Lamb
A very good book on not only children's books, but writing in general.

And a couple of other sites I'd offer would be

www.underdown.org/ (http://www.underdown.org/)
Everything a children's author needs to know.

www.writersdigest.com/101...r_101=2004 (http://www.writersdigest.com/101sites/categorysearch.asp?year_101=2004)
The best writing sites on the web, including this one (of course)