Other methods of getting published

[Lel513]

I've made some intial attempts at contacting agents and have so far had no luck. I am trying to get a literary novel published and my book doesn't have that killer plot or pitch that immediatly gets attention. I am wondering if there are other ways at getting agents or publishers attention besides merely sending out letters. It seems like such a difficult way to go about things, sending out a letter and maybe a chapter of your book and waiting six months to hear back, almost always a rejection. I also have the disadvantage of not having had any short stories published in journals or magazines. Does anyone have stories of other ways they got their novels published besides sending out letters?

[Mya Bell]

I'm only aware of four ways to get traditionally published other than those you describe above:

1. Get famous.
2. Get a referral from a published author.
3. Set up camp on an agent's doorstep.
4. Contact publishers directly until you get an offer.

You might think I'm being facetious, but I'm serious. Other than the four points above (and the third one is questionable, but people have done it), the query letter is the agents' preferred way of evaluating stories. Why? Because they get about 100 submissions for every one that is publishable. The query gives them a chance to weed out the bad ones before requesting a partial (or full).

If the market weren't so incredibly flooded, it would be easier.

It will take a good query letter, a professional attitude, and a lot of persistence to get published, but it is possible, assuming your book is well written and commercially viable.

--- Mya Bell

[novelator]

Here's another avenue you may wish to explore--self-publishing.

There's a Yahoo group called Self Publishing you may be interested in joining, if only to lurk.

You'll learn a heck of a lot about marketing your books, if nothing else.

Here's the link:

finance.groups.yahoo.com/...ublishing/ (http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/Self-Publishing/)

Mari

[Writing Again]

There is another way, particularly with literary works, but it is far from a quick fix and requires both patience and talent.

I know of a man who has been steadily submitting too, and winning, contests for literary short stories for a long time. Publishers have actually come to him to ask him to write a novel for them. Unfortunately he is a short story writer and is not sure about the plunge into novels.

[maestrowork]

There are many agents who deal with literary fiction, and there are smaller publishers who are searching for the next literary genius. Why not submit to them and see what happens? Why so impatient? Six months, twelve months, twenty-four months... Have you exhausted your options yet?

There's a thing called perseverance.

[Lel513]

Perseverance is a good quality to have, unfortunately I am lacking it at the moment. I have sent queries out to agents and have been rejected, yet none have read my full manuscript. So I can't tell if my book is well written and publishable. I personally think it is but have had no one in the business read it. So I wish I could just talk one on one with an agent, have him read my book, and then tell me honestly what he thinks of it. But with these damn query letters you have to be a salesman and I would rather just write books, not market them. I've contemplated just sending out my full manuscript with the cover letter reading only, "Read this. If you like it get back to me. If you don't, no problem."

[maestrowork]

Unfortunately, marketing is part of the process. It's like finding a job. Unless you personally know the hiring manager, you can't just go up to him and say "we need a one on one interview -- if you like me, hire me. If not, no problem." You need a resume and a cover letter, before you're invited for an interview... Sometimes it takes months, if not years, to find a good job.

There's a reason why this process exists. If every writer would send an agent or editor the full ms., no work would be done because they would spend every waking second of their lives reading mss. Hey, tough, you're not the only writer in the world with a book to sell. Why should they read yours and not the others'?

Unless you personally know someone, that's the way it is. You can always say "f-it, I'm going to self publish."

It's frustrating, sure. But why are you so impatient? Are you writing your next book? Are you obsessing over getting this one book published, like NOW?

If you need some honest opinion, join a professional writer's group or workshop or go to writer conferences and ask a real agent to evaluate a sample of your work, or if you know any authors, ask their opinion. What did your beta readers say? Did they like your book? Hire a professional editor/book doctor...

[katdad]

I sat down a year ago with my 2004 resolution: to find an agent for my mystery novels.

I mailed countless queries to both agents and publishers, submitted chapters, outlines, whatever.

I finally located an agent this past November. So the search took nearly a year.

As has been suggested, persevere. If your book is worth publishing, you will eventually find an outlet.

Some suggest self-publishing. What this essentially means is that you pay someone to print your book for you, then you try to sell copies to recover your outlay.

This method guarantees that your book will see print. It does not guarantee however that you'll ever see any profit.

I myself have zero interest in self-publishing and have not got the money should I change my mind. But it may be for you.

[katdad]

sending out my full manuscript
Well, you'll surely spend a lot of dough doing that, and your response will likely be the same.

Agents are busy. Their client lists are mostly always full. This means that they have no time to read an "over the transom" submission.

If your query or synopsis doesn't interest them, they will absolutely not take the time to read your book "cold". It costs too much in time for this to occur.

Have you submitted sample chapters to this forum and other forums for review? Maybe it's a hard simple fact that your book isn't quite good enough yet. Or it may be.

Do you have any external evidence that your novel is well written, good enough for consideration? That is, other than friends, has anyone read it and commented?

Or you may have simply hit a dead spot in your agent search. If your responses are "thanks but it's not for us" then cross that agency off your list for good. Don't waste another stamp.

But if the response is "we're full right now" or "our list is saturated" or similar, wait 3-4 months and try again.

Also your query must be good. Have you asked anyone here to review it?

[XThe NavigatorX]

Don't self publish. It's a horrible idea for a first novel. Keep submitting, and while you're doing it, keep writing. If you get to the point where you've been rejected by every single agent in the English-speaking world, start submitting to the smaller presses that don't require agents. By the time you're done with that, you'll have five more novels written.

[stormie267]

As Mya and others have said, be professional, write the best query letter you can, and don't give up. Start writing your next novel. Or write anything, even a journal. Or how about letters to the editor of your local newspaper? Just keep writing. And yes, there are many good small traditional publishers.

[SRHowen]

And even once you find an agent--results are not overnight. And one the agent finds a publisher it can be a year, or even two years before the book is on the shelves.

When you say you have submitted to "some" agents and gotten rejections--how many is some? Two? Five? Ten? More?

It took me 3 months and 65 queries to find my agent--yes, I sent them out in droves. I discovered frauds, lists full, non-responders, not right for us, simply no written on my query letter sent back to me. And I had a lot of requests for the full ms--many responded with "wouldn't know how to market this."

Are you sending out one query at a time?

Simultaneous Submissions applies to requested partials and full manuscripts, not query letters.

Patients in this biz are a must. The wheels of publishing move very very slow--so slow that at times I think the wheels all have one flat side.

Shawn

[katdad]

Patients in this biz are a must.
Ha ha! Your accidental typo was a hoot! I'm sure that many of us are indeed "patients", or should be.

[James D Macdonald]

There aren't any shortcuts or golden keys or secret handshakes. There's just writing a book that lots of people want to read.

While you're waiting:

a) write another, different, better book.
b) get those short stories into magazines and journals.

[SRHowen]

:eek :o :lol :rollin

LOL

Yes indeed---

Shawn

[Lel513]

I know I have to do more and have patience. I am wondering now if there is even a market for my book. It is a first person literary novel about a college student who is obsessed by an unattainable girl, thinks a 10 year old college student might be God himself, goes out with a religious fanatic, and has numerous surrealistic fantasies that blend into the narrative. Maybe even if it is well written the subject matter appeals only to me and not the book buying public. If that is the case then no matter how many query letters I send out no one will be interested. I think I will post my full query letter and a sample chapter but does anyone think from my short description that this subject matter can sell?

[maestrowork]

If it's a good book, there will be a market. Meanwhile, write another one. How many agents have your queried? Don't even think twice before you hit 200.

[Gala]

Does anyone have stories of other ways they got their novels published besides sending out letters

It's called six degrees of separation.

Marketing and persistence gets a lot of crap published, but that's okay.

Remember, you are the bread and butter of agents and publishers. They work for you, not the other way around.

Turn the concept of "finding, seeking, marketing yourself" and all that around: the agents and publishers must attract your attention. You are hiring them and don't ever forget it.

This whole idea that writers practically have to beg to get published frightens me.

People want to read your book. Assume that and act accordingly. And agents want to pay their mortgage and buy their bitchy wives roses on Valentines day; without you, they'd be on the dole. Not the other way around.

Good luck.

[wurdwise]

Thank you, thank you, so much for saying that, Gala!
:smokin

I am so tired of writers sounding subserviant, as if their agent is doing them a huge favor by representing them, much less having the confidence to actually believe their work will be published.

I started writing almost two years ago full time after owning a small adversting business for 10 years. I have committed myself to spend the rest of my days writing. And even though I love to write, to me, the process of emotionality ends with the completion of the work. After that, it's just business.

[maestrowork]

Remember, you are the bread and butter of agents and publishers. They work for you, not the other way around.

I don't think that's true.

[Writing Again]

You don't want just any agent -- You don't want a bad agent -- You don't want an agent you can't get along with -- You don't want an agent who won't try to push your work.

I personally will not deal with anyone who is either too literal minded or who has no sense of humor.

Unless things have changed even more in the last twenty years than I thought possible...Once you have sold your novel to a decent publishing house agents will want to represent you -- The publishing house will gladly give you a list of agents they respect.

[wurdwise]

I am so torn on that issue, finding an agent versus going straight for the publisher. I have seen arguments for both, and each viewpoint is sound. It's a dilemma. I will not be ready for that process for a few more months, but I am still on the fence.

[Man with twohanded sword]

A good writers critquing group will give you the feedback you need.

If some of the writers are pros or semi-pros, they might also point you in the right direction regarding agents and publishers - if or when your material is good enough.

Don't self publish (unless you're writing specialist non-fiction or humour) - it's sad.

Avoid putting too great a proportion of your work online since this may pose legal problems for publishers.

Money flows towards the author.

Don't trust anything anybody tells you unless you know their credentials - i.e. listen to Uncle Jim, but take this post with a pinch of salt.

Good luck. Wish I could write full time.

mwths

PS You might gain some insights on rejections here:
nielsenhayden.com/makingl...04641.html (http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/004641.html)

[katdad]

finding an agent versus going straight for the publisher
You don't really have to make it either/or. I'd recommend you search for both at the same time, and see what happens.

Finding a publisher is harder, since so few now accept un-agented submissions, but it's still possible.

And while you're looking for the publisher, search for the agent simultaneously. That's what I did, and I landed the agent first.

[wurdwise]

Thanks, katdad. I like that idea, a lot actually. I believe that's exactly what I will do!:hat

[Gala]

re my statement writers are the bread and butter of agents maestro said,

"I don't think that's true."

That was already obvious.

Wurdwise: thanks for your comments.

Without writers, the publishing business goes away. If I thought I was a slave to an agent, a publisher or a bookseller, I'd pick another vocation.


Cheers.
<img border=0 src="http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/glasses.gif" />

(ed. shortened.)

[Meryena]

The folks here are right about perserverance and patience. I've learned that to be true with short stories - some get snatched up right away, while others take months to find a home. Some never find a home and end up getting filed away in my "revise later" folder.

Also, finding a good critique group is very helpful. I rely heavily on a couple of close writer friends who have helped me spot glaring errors that I would have never seen - until they pointed them out to me. Then, the reasons the stories weren't sold were painfully obvious.

When searching for a critique group - browse through the critiques given to other members. This will give you an idea of how polite and considerate or harsh and rude they are when giving critiques. There's always a nice way of offering suggestions.

My personal rule - ignore rude and nasty critiquers. I tend to pay more attention to someone who takes the time to nicely (without being syrupy sweet about it) point out what appears to be wrong, then instead of trying to rewrite it for me, they offer suggestions that give me a choice.

And, as someone else has already mentioned - be very careful as to how much you post online. Posting in a public or even semi-public forum is considered published material. The exception I've heard has been locked private forums with limited reader access. Anyone else know much about this? I'm just going on what I've been warned from other writers.

As far as your subject matter goes, have you tried searching what's called "alternative fiction" markets? I have a couple of friends who write what's called alternative fiction and from what they've sold, it appears to be a growing market. Just thought I'd toss out another avenue for you to try.

Good luck!

[Lel513]

I've never heard the term alternative fiction before. You got me interested. How would you classify it? What journals or publishers specialize in alternative fiction?

[Meryena]

Here’s some places to get started - check submission guidelines to see if your story falls within what they’re looking for. You know your story and its content, so you have to do the grind work researching markets and weeding out to find where your story will best fit.

These are just starting points. Follow links until you stumble across the ones where you think your story will make a good fit. Don’t stop at just one - get a list going, as one is rejected, send it to the next on your list.

Fiction Addiction (http://www.fictionaddiction.net/printa.html) - They have a huge list of book publishers.

The Write Market (http://) - Limited market list, but a good starting point too.

Writers Write Book Publishers Link (http://www.writerswrite.com/books/bookpubs/) - Another site with quite an extensive list of publishers.

Hope this helps. Good luck!

[The Gorn]

I think you may want to check out a web site I found recently called articledistributionservices.com. This site deals in short stories. I have learned that it is very difficult to get published if you are trying to sell an entire novel without having been previously published. If I were you; I would crank out a couple of short stories and submit them to that site and see if you can catch someones' interest. (Actually, I've already planned to do that.)

I've been trying to break into writing for about ten years and I've learned that doing so is like getting into a swimming pool at the shallow end. If you try to dive in head first; you're going to hit the bottom and break your neck. However, if you use the ladder and slip in feet first, then you've got a much better chance of having a lot of fun.

[Kasilius]

I heard somewhere that you should look for agents and publishers who are actively looking for authors. Maybe go on Yahoo!, Google, or Dogpile and look?

[Kasilius]

3. Set up camp on an agent's doorstep.


Those poor agents!

[CaoPaux]

I heard somewhere that you should look for agents and publishers who are actively looking for authors. Maybe go on Yahoo!, Google, or Dogpile and look?Actually, the opposite is true: Agents and publishers which advertise as "actively looking" (via Google ad, magazine ad, etc.), are not ones you wish to deal with. Legit agents and publishers (which can get your books into stores) do not advertise. To find them, get a copy of Writers' Market or Jeff Herman's Guide, and cross-reference with the likes of Writer Beware and Preditors & Editors.

[CaoPaux]

I have learned that it is very difficult to get published if you are trying to sell an entire novel without having been previously published. An editor would only be interested in sales to markets they have heard of and/or are considered professional publications.
If I were you; I would crank out a couple of short stories and submit them to that site and see if you can catch someones' interest.The way to "catch someones' interest" in a short story is to research markets, then submit per their guidelines.

[azbikergirl]

Actually, the opposite is true: Agents and publishers which advertise as "actively looking" (via Google ad, magazine ad, etc.), are not ones you wish to deal with.
AgentQuery.com lists agents as looking or closed to new clients. That's probably not what you meant.

[CaoPaux]

AgentQuery.com lists agents as looking or closed to new clients. That's probably not what you meant.Quite so. :D

I just wanted to differentiate between agents being listed at reputable sites as "looking", and those which are "actively looking" via advertising.

[citymouse]

Don't self publish. It's a horrible idea for a first novel. Keep submitting, and while you're doing it, keep writing. If you get to the point where you've been rejected by every single agent in the English-speaking world, start submitting to the smaller presses that don't require agents. By the time you're done with that, you'll have five more novels written.

Golly I'm glad I didn't ask this question when I had my first novel in hand. I self-published that book. I also published a sequel the same way. And you know what? My first book is out selling my second 2 to 1. Go figure, huh? That said, I continue to seek a non-self publish outfit. My reason is I want to be read by those who frequent bookstores as well as online catalogs. POD companies almost exclusively use online catalogs. There are small presses that do look at manuscripts that are not agent represented but you have to look hard to find them.
As an aside you may use a "full service" editor. There are many who go well beyond what we normally see as an editor's function. Be aware editors who offer agent referals are very costly; often as high as $50-60/hr. Also, while an editor may edit your MS, he or she will only pass along to an agent work he or she believes will hit the mark.

Michael Halfhill author of
Bought and Paid For & Scimitar