49 copies info only

[marky48]

And then there's the price issue again, pesky thing. As my fellow southern Caifornian soon to be published author says, "The prices are right in line with all the other PODs." Except iU is $10.95 for the same thing.

www.publishamerica.com/cg...n/8108.htm (http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/main/8108.htm)

[dogpile]

My question is this: How dumb are these people? They sit and talk about the price, PublishAmerica tells them somehting that doesn't really answer the question, and they go on like they've been given the yoke of universal understanding! Not to mention that quip about the distributor raising the price? If they would only stop writing their questions on the board and simply call Ingram or Lightning Source, they would KNOW straight from the horse's mouth just what the real deal is and would see. No, they would rather cry a bit, be pampered by the publisher with half-truths, and then cry "Hosannah in the highest we are SOOOO lucky!"

Pathetic idiots if you ask me.

[marky48]

Here is the whole price thread from last summer. I've not disscted it yet, as I think we already have, but here it is for commentary. Glad you're here Dogpile, but calling them out-and-out idiots will bring defenders out of the woodwork.

www.publishamerica.com/cg...n/6842.htm (http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/main/6842.htm)

[battlechaser]

I felt compelled to exert energy on this subject

Definition of Publish

Webster’s New World Dictionary 1990
1.&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp to make publicly known; announce
2.&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp to issue (a printed work) for sale
3.&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp to issue books, newspapers, printed music, etc. to the public
4.&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp to write books, etc that are published

Merriam Webster’s Collegiate Dictionary, tenth edition
1.&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp to make generally known
2.&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp to make public announcement of
3.&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp to disseminate to the public
4.&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp to produce or release for distribution
5.&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp to issue a work of (an author)
6.&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp to put out an edition
7.&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp to have one’s work accepted for publication


Definition of publishing

The business or profession of the commercial production and issuance of literature, information, musical scores, or sometimes recordings, and art.

Definition of publisher

One that publishes something; a person or corporation whose business is publishing.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Answers:
1.&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Everyone agrees that any business or organization that prints for a fee and does not distribute, is not a publisher. So, any POD as of right now are not publishers.
2.&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp If a person pays for a printed material to be produced and makes it public by any of the above definitions, then that person would be considered the publisher.
3.&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Once any printed material is made available to the public, then it would be considered published.

The bottom line
If any person writes a paper and uses a POD or any other method to print it and make available to the public, either for sale or for free, then that person is considered the author, the publisher, and sometimes marketer/distributor.

Note: Editing is irrelevant to publish, its just quality assurance.

[marky48]

Legally true, hierarchically that is the bottom of the food chain defined. Traditionally published is the top of the literary ecological pyramid.

[dogpile]

Now, this is pitiful (taken from the PublishAmerica messageboard, unless they've removed it by now):
******************************
Posted by: cb

Date: 11/05/2003
Time: 21:48:03
RE: Traditional publishers offer no advantage


Message:
Deejay, why are you fibbing about your "traditional publisher"? Your other publisher is Picasso Publications, according to your own D.J. Brown AD page, and here's what the Canadian Writers Union has to say about them.

"Picasso Publications is a subsidy publisher based in Edmonton, Alberta. The Union is strongly of the view that writers are usually ill-served by any publisher who requires payment from the author."

In other words, you have paid to be published by your "traditional publisher", and there's nothing traditional about that. You have made no honest claim at all. All you have done is lie to us here.

PA is the only traditional publisher who was bold enough to take a chance on you, at no cost to you. Picasso is a scam organization who took your money and ran. Their website is down, and your book is out of stock according to Amazon.

Why would you want us to believe otherwise?
******************************

Now, I looked all through the rest of their messageboard and I could never find one posting where this DeeJay mentioned their name or book title. That leads me to believe that this 'cb' person HAS to be someone working for PublishAmerica, possibly paid to roam the messageboards and raise the swastika and call in the SS when people merely state an opinion that doesn't reflect what this publisher wants to see themselves as.

Oh, another thing about their wonderful messageboard. Have you ever seen a bigger collection of UNPROFESSIONAL, IMMATURE, WITLESS, and MINDLESS idiots? You know, if I had a book published, by ANY publisher, I certainly would not want such a public display of childish jabber and antics to be available for public viewing. In reading through this, I feel as though I'm wading through a gymnasium filled with about 100 pre-school classes. People putting down their fellow authors. Praising things that simply are not true, acting all giddy and such. It's no wonder these people aren't selling anything to the general public. Books priced too high and not one shread of professionalism anywhere...INCLUDING from the publisher, who (it seems) has to always come out and talk about how wonderful they are, and how happy everyone there should be. Not to mention that PublishAmerica states:

"All vanity publishers, including iUniverse, have raised their retail prices by 25-30 percent in the past two years, until they were in sync with what PublishAmerica and many other traditional houses list their books at."

(Note: Unless they remove it so that it can no longer be seen, this is at the following thread www.publishamerica.com/cg.../6842.htm) (http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/main/6842.htm))

Come on now. By this statement, they are saying that they were the vanity publisher with the highest price! In full admission! Yet...NO ONE picked up on it! Then, they stated:

"First, printing a book digitally is expensive in an absolute sense. It brings up the manufacturing cost per single unit. On the other hand it is relatively inexpensive because digital printing allows you to print very few copies at a time, which is what enables us to create opportunities for more deserving authors than most other publishers dare to dream of. Little or no overstocking challenges, relatively low out of pocket investments in manufacturing, etc."

Now, am I mistaken...or are they telling us at first how expensive it is, only to tell us later that they incur a relatively low "out-of-pocket" investment? Again, here is an admission that they spend ext to nothing to make these books, and one can see from the Lightning Source price listing I posted earlier.

Another fable:

"Off that amount, the publisher must acquire, produce, and manufacture the book, he must pay his entire staff and organization, he must pay the shipping from the printer and to the bookstore, he must pay the author his royalty, and then, if he's any lucky, he will keep close to one dollar as an earnings margin."

The publisher pays what to acquire? 5 minutes of time to write an e-mail or a letter and a stamp to tell someone they'll take their book? Also, "must pay the shipping from the printer and to the bookstore..." Yeah...RIGHT! I called Lightning Source and if a bookstore, Amazon, or someone buys the book from them, the publisher doesn't pay to ship these out. Also, if you have 2931 titles (as of this moment according to Amazon), and you're making an average of $5 on each one (again...see my earlier price breakdown), that means that even if you sell ONE copy a month, you have a profit margin of at least $14,655.00 per month. Now, figure that there are about 5 average staff who might get paid $8.50 per hour. That comes to $6,800.00 per month for their salary. Since their freelance editors and cover artists are freelance, they are paid up front and incur no further costs. Which leaves us with $7,855.00 per month. Now, you pay the head cheeses something in the area of $2000 per month each and you end up with $1,855.00 left. These figures are going on the basis of ONE copy per title sold, and that's through an outlet! Doesn't count the ones bought directly from their site which garners them a profit of almost $11.00 PER BOOK!

Do the math people....do the math. The statements put forth by this company simply do NOT add up. Unless you're using that wierd math that combines calculus and algebra that they used to prove that (on paper anyway) 2 plus 2 equals 5.

pitiful....just pitiful....

[marky48]

I had read it. The link is gone. Nice work.

[dogpile]

Ha! Sorry PublishAmerica...got you on that one! Although, I COULD post the whole thread on here so that it never gets "deleted" by some errant server.

(Somehow, they made it so that you can't access the link from here. However, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to find the thread on the boards which complain about pricing. The thread I quote from IS still there...just not accessible from here for "SOME" unknown reason.)


HERE is their complete response on that post for those who don't want to search:

Infocenter
Administrator
6/26/2003
13:44:15

RE: PublishAmerica's Pricing Policy


Message:
1. Trade paperback book prices have skyrocketed across the board in publishing land. Check your local bookstores and ask the clerk. PublishAmerica is virtually the only publisher who has kept its prices flat, steady, and reliable over the past three years. Sirat's comparison with iUniverse is outdated and, frankly, invalid, and not only because he paid this vanity publisher a sizable money amount in return for getting the book published. All vanity publishers, including iUniverse, have raised their retail prices by 25-30 percent in the past two years, until they were in sync with what PublishAmerica and many other traditional houses list their books at. But, don't compare vanity publishers with traditional publishers. They're in a totally different ballgame, charging money for almost everything they do.

2. According to R.R. Bowker, the company of record for information about the publishing industry, from 1975 to 2000, the price of the average book of fiction went up 200 percent. Average prices for poetry and drama books increased 211 percent. Nonfiction hardcovers went up 123 percent. The largest increase was in the juvenile category, which climbed 227 percent.
The average price for mass-market paperback fiction has gone up a whopping 328 percent, poetry and drama have increased by 252 percent, and juvenile titles cost a staggering 387 percent more now than they did in 1975. Wanna adjust for inflation? Still, the average price of mass-market paperbacks has gone up almost 40 percent.

3. Here's the famous line from a veteran B. Dalton bookseller, "No matter what the prices are, they say it's too expensive."

4. Here's the famous line from a Random House editorial director, "Given the very thin margins they operate on and the cost of doing business, prices are not too high. From the point of view of publishers, they're too low."

5. Is $19.95 too much for a 225-page book (which is our average book page count, and we are charged by the printer per book page)? It's not, for two reasons.
First, printing a book digitally is expensive in an absolute sense. It brings up the manufacturing cost per single unit. On the other hand it is relatively inexpensive because digital printing allows you to print very few copies at a time, which is what enables us to create opportunities for more deserving authors than most other publishers dare to dream of. Little or no overstocking challenges, relatively low out of pocket investments in manufacturing, etc. We recognized that digital printing is the wave of the future when it first came about, and that's the wave we are riding.

That said, the production price per low-run book is higher than the production price per high-run offset printed book. This eats at our earnings margin per single book. Also, booksellers demand steeper discounts than most people realize. When all is said and done, the wholesaler and the retailer typically divide 55 percent of a book's list price between themselves, leaving the publisher with a mere 45 percent. So the real question is, is $8.95 (which is 45 percent of $19.95) too much to ask for? Off that amount, the publisher must acquire, produce, and manufacture the book, he must pay his entire staff and organization, he must pay the shipping from the printer and to the bookstore, he must pay the author his royalty, and then, if he's any lucky, he will keep close to one dollar as an earnings margin.
Surely nobody wants to deny the publisher his one buck, right? He needs it, not just for profit, but for investment into further growth.

Secondly, and more tellingly, there is no indication whatsoever that our retail prices are affecting sales in any manner at all. While the rest of the book industry has seen sales dip almost each month this year until the Hillary and Harry Potter books came along, ours have gone nowhere but up. When everyone else complained about how bad April was as a book sales month, PublishAmerica reached record heights. And since records are there so they can be broken, it looks like this June will be the best month in our history, not only in total overall sales, but also in sales per average title. If you sell a book every 28 seconds, as we do, you can't say that there is any obstacle preventing sales, period, and that includes pricing.
Some authors seem to forget that we are on the same team here. We want to sell books just as eagerly as you do. It's our only means of income, and it comes in only after we have spent lots of money and time on production. So you bet, we want to sell as many books as we can. If we'd had discovered that pricing were an obstacle, we would have removed the obstacle. But there is no obstacle.

Finally, how about selling a book for $5.95? That's even below the cheap mass market paperbacks that you may find in your local grocery store, the books that have a 60 percent return rate because so few people want to read them, the books that don't compare in quality to the trade paperbacks that we publish, the books that went up in price by 328 percent. We are offering more than a thousand titles for $5.95, as an e-book. Easy to download, easy to read.
Guess what? Those more than 1000 titles have been available now for almost two months. We have sold only 53 e-books to date. In the same timeframe we have sold close to 50,000 books with an average retail price that's more than three times higher.

'Nuff said.
***************************
They followed with another post in that thread:

Message:
Sirat, let us burst another bubble, before you start sounding like a naysayer with a broken record, which would be unintentional yet remarkable for someone whose book is not even in print yet.

Family and friends are in no way a significant buying force. It is something that an occasional ignorant is fond to scream, "PA relies on your family and friends for their sales, boohoohoo..."

True, no apologies made: as a courtesy we inform, at our sole expense, an author's friends, even if the author lives as far away as Britain, as you do. No other publisher extends this courtesy to its authors, only PA does it.

Wanna know how many of them actually buy the average book, written by their relative or friend?

A whopping, astounding, spectacular 18.

That's right, only eighteen. Hardly enough to pay for a day's trash pickup. That's how much the author's friends care, and it fits seamlessly what you may find at www.publishamerica.com/cg...l/220.htm, (http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/general/220.htm,) the thread called "Is it only me?"

So much for our alleged formula "which is to create income by selling small numbers of books at a high price to friends and families of writers." Thank you for knowing this industry better than we do, and for "not complaining" about something you have yet to experience firsthand.
****************************

If I had proof, (other than e-mails from former employees) I would state just what PublishAmerica DOES use those lists for. However, the former employees were "asked" to sign a confidentiality agreement prior to their being released. This "agreed contract" essentially is nothing more than a gag order restricting them from even breathing within a mile of a current employee or a signed author.

Hmmm...I wonder why that would be????


Oh, Marky...the reason they don't fire back is because like any bully, when you present the honest truth and back it up with proof and their OWN words...they have no defense and thus can't come back. In fact, if they do, it merely makes a few of their authors want to verify one or the other...and they DON'T want them checking the info I've put up because then their secrets will be out for all to see and believe!

Then Willem's little world comes crashing down around him. Heaven forbid the authors learn the truth...which is what is slowly happening. All because of those who KNOW and share the truth.

[marky48]

How do you know that Dogpile?

[dogpile]

How do I know about what?

[James D Macdonald]

"All vanity publishers, including iUniverse, have raised their retail prices by 25-30 percent in the past two years, until they were in sync with what PublishAmerica and many other traditional houses list their books at."

Let's look at that:

October 2003, list prices (per Amazon):

iUniverse:
86 paperback titles. Minimum: $8.95 Maximum: $29.95
Median: $14.95 Mode: $10.95 Mean: $15.45

PublishAmerica:
93 paperback titles. Minimum: $16.95 Maximum: $24.95
Median: $19.95 Mode: $19.95 Mean: $19.94

Average adult trade paperback (per R. R. Bowker, 2002): $15.77

[dogpile]

How did you only get 93 titles? My search comes up with almost 3000.

Marky, does it really matter how I know what I know? Isn't the important part the fact that I DO know it?

And that I am able to back it up with reputable and verifiable information?

[James D Macdonald]

Month of October 2003 only, Dogpile. I took a sample, rather than checking every single price over the past upmty-diddle years. There's a limit to how much time I'm willing to spend on these people.

----

Oh, if your information is to be verifiable, how you know it is important.

[XThe NavigatorX]

Did you compile that info yourself? heh

That's a poor random sample of Publish America prices. Unless they really did lower their prices in October. They have several books they released recently with a $30.00+ cover price.

www.amazon.com/exec/obido...1592865518 (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1592865518)

www.amazon.com/exec/obido...1592866948 (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1592866948)

www.amazon.com/exec/obido...1413703194 (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1413703194) (this one isn't even out yet)

www.amazon.com/exec/obido...592868592/ (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1592868592/) (same here)

www.amazon.com/exec/obido...1592865275 (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1592865275) (this one is 156 pages and costs $29.95) It'd actually be cheaper to go into a drugstore and photocopy it at 15 cents a page.

[martineden]

Glad I decided to do some research on this outfit.

Was just offered a contract by them.

Sounds like I won't even bother reading it. Will just reply to their email with an F#%@-off.

Been limiting my search to publishers that accept humor via electronic submissions, since my printer isn't working all that great and graphics are a good part of the package...That's how I wound up sending to PA.

Guess I should have done my research first.

If anyone out there knows of a legit publisher that accepts electronic submissions and publishes humor (It's a parody of a kind of self-help book), I'd be greatly appreciative. Seems I can find anything on the internet except what I am looking for.

[James D Macdonald]

Did you compile that info yourself?

Yes.

I've given my sources; you're invited to check.

[dogpile]

I count 2,931 titles, priced from $12.95-$41.95


Of course...that's information as of this very moment.

[XThe NavigatorX]

That wasn't a questioning 'You compiled that yourself?'; it was an admiring 'you compiled that yourself!'

Ignore that last one in the post above by me, btw. It's hardcover. (I didn't even know they did hardcover).

[dogpile]

Oh, if your information is to be verifiable, how you know it is important.

I don't understand what you're asking. The information is verifiable by calling Ingram's and Lightning Source. As far as teh former employees, there are a few who aren't hard to find...and will admit that they "cannot speak to anyone because of the "confidentiality agreement" (read: imposed gag order agreement) they signed before leaving the company.


As for being important...I meant that the important thing is that I know what I know and am willing to put it out there, along with the means to verify the information.

[marky48]

The testimonies of the employees. I guess it isn't important if you need to protect yourself; nothing wrong with that. We're approaching a "Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain moment" here. I just want the curtain wide open and Meiners fumbling for his keys. Anyone who helps is "good to go" in my book.

[dogpile]

Ok. I'll back off on that one, only because I no longer have the letter. However, it shouldn't be too hard to locate former employees and contact them. I did it fairly easily. Try and keep in mind the people who were there about 2 years ago...when the first cracks started appearing in the armor. Funny how those who had been there for years were suddenly replaced?


Marky, I'd love to tell a LOT more. However, I don't want to get too involved in revealing a lot. If you can understand my meaning.

[James D Macdonald]

I count 2,931 titles, priced from $12.95-$41.95

Great! Now punch 'em all into your favorite spreadsheet, and see what you come up with for an average price. (Betcha a nickle that it's really close to $20.00.)

[dogpile]

LOL...Don't need to James. The point is clear without going that far!

Especially when you sit and figure the actual print cost...and how much the publisher is getting.

[marky48]

The traditional debate goes on. The answer is obvious to all but those who refuse to see.

www.publishamerica.com/cg...e/1357.htm (http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/lounge/1357.htm)

[DaveKuzminski]

Of course, there's one thing I'm certain of that PublishAmerica has got to fear: another publisher following their model that charges less for the books they sell. It wouldn't take long for the new company to draw away writers. Then they'd have to lower their prices or risk seeing their cash herd dry up.

[James D Macdonald]

Those poor, innocent folks.

If any of them want straight answers to serious questions, they can come directly to me; I'll answer to the best of my ability, honestly, with examples and sources cited.

Meanwhile, at <a href="http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/lounge/1372.htm" target="_new">http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/lounge/1372.htm</a> we read: "Two thousand dollars?! Even "traditional" publishers rarely give that kind of advance out to anybody but really established writers, like King or Koontz. It looks like the HWA is yet another group that would just love to keep us pirates our of an "exclusive" club."

My very dear young friend, a $2K advance is a very low one indeed. Sure, if you're hanging out in the lower end of the small press world, or in vanity-land, you won't find advances like that, but King or Koontz? Those guys wouldn't even look at a $2K advance. For that matter, neither would I, and I'm just a midlist genre hack. Rarely give that kind of advance? Rarely give one that low is what you mean.

Rather than trying to keep folks out of an exclusive club, it's a bar set so low that anyone who has the slightest hope of becoming a professional writer can hop over it.

[marky48]

They've never heard of you James. I hadn't either, but when I came here asking questions I looked up three of the folks here. One, Canada James was talking big, no record of merit. No offense Dave K; not mainstream published. James Macd was repeatedly. His points count more accordingly.

I would think that $2K is the least one would expect from a decent small publisher. The larger ones are miles above that in every way. At PA they don't know it.

[aka eraser]

Remember Bizzaro World in the old Superman comics? Everything was backwards and just plain "wrong."

PA World is the online equivalent.

You'd have to add three more 0's for that advance to King (and probably) Koontz.

As an unknown, first-time author, my advance was $5 K. I was happy to get it but hope to set the bar higher for my next one.

[marky48]

Correct on all counts Frank. It's bizarro world over there. And nice job snagging the advance at the office 30 miles from my hometown. I couldn't but genre/publisher matters. I wish you had a chapter online though.

The editor there while turning down my local Maine history project offered his services as a paid consultant should I want to self-publish the book. I had to be blunt with the man. I am in no position to hire anybody or have the desire to do so. Even a legitimate editor tries to moonlight I guess, but I wasn't amused at that point.

I am puzzled as to why Maine publishers, or New York ones camped out there were so against the story of a colorful revolutionary war leader and a famous military campaign wasn't worth telling to them. That's bizarre too.

[DaveKuzminski]

I know I'm not a well known writer. All the same, I arrived home today to find a very nice check in the mailbox from just one of my publishers. Seems that the two books I have with that publisher sold 11 and 116 copies respectively this last quarter. The one selling 11 is a new book while the other has been out for some time. No, I'm not in James Macdonald's league, but I'm learning and building. I believe there is a market for my writing. If there wasn't, I wouldn't have another book accepted and scheduled for release in February 2004.

By the way, just for the benefit of Canada James, I didn't give any of my publishers a list of friends and relatives. I haven't arranged any book signings. I don't buy my books at an author discount and then stand on corners wearing bright robes and playing a tambourine in order to sell my books. That's because my publishers do all the selling and distribution to book dealers.

[marky48]

That's all to your credit too. I didn't do any of those things either with my entrants to POD-land and nothing happened, because nothing, is what those so-called publishers do. Even if some refuse to see it.

[CWGranny]

About a year ago, I was speaking at a conference and got into a discussion about PA with some of the other presenters. Now, one of these people was an editor with one of the big guys (though it was the children's division since it was a children's writing conference) and one was an author was more books than me (and one was even a book for grownie ups!!) -- so anyone would afford them more credibility than I -- right?

Well, the editor had never heard of PA but she thought it was really sad that a company was taking advantage of the naivete of new writers. She listened attentively to some of what PA had done to writers I had "met" online -- including the slimey attacks on their own message board. And she thanked me for the information because authors do ask her about "good" small publishers and she is glad to be able to stear them away from the shyster.

The multi-published author, on the other hand, dismissed the whole thing with "at least those books were taken out of the system and aren't clogging up the slush piles." She honestly believed (and still believes, she was not mobile on it) that if the PA authors could write, they wouldn't have tried PA in the first place. Only no-talents go with PODs. And apparently that "no-talent" status made them somehow deserving of getting screwed.

Of course, she was wrong -- but she sure had more book publishing credits with big name publishers than Dave. It's time we dropped this "getting books published makes you an expert on the industry" mentality. Some folks get books published year after year and don't REALLY know jack about the industry. They know about WRITING and they know about what the industry is buying (and that is what the author was speaking on at the conference) but they don't know how publishers work -- not really -- they have agents who think about that. [Though my agent is better than hers, nanny nanny boo boo.]

Now some multi-published authors have made it a point to really LOOK at the whole industry -- and because of that, they have credibility to discuss industry practices. And some industry watchdogs are not even published by the 'big houses' but if they know the way the business end of the industry works because they have put the time into studying it and learning it, then I am certainly going to take their word over some princess who thinks the PA authors should just eat cake.

Yes, when you want to learn -- you look for the authority -- the one who has put time into studying industry practices. But saying a 'book published' author automatically has more credibility about industry practices than someone who devotes a massive amount of time and energy to learning those very processes is just poor logic.

James MacDonald DOES know the industry -- but the proof wasn't in checking out his Amazon ratings -- the proof was in listening to him to *hear* if he was speaking with logic, facts and authority. It's the same proof that works for Victoria, Ann, and Dave.

Granny

[James D Macdonald]

I'm still offended the at Popper20 didn't reply directly to me, even while he/she was trying to score points off Victoria, Hapi, and others.

(Indirectly, now, the thread at PA that I quoted here vanished within minutes of my mentioning it here, even though it had been happily pottering along there for days by then.)

Yesterday, I was thinking about an entirely childish taunt directed at certain PA authors, and here I find today that you've already covered my points, with far greater skill and tact, Granny.

The people at PA I'm most concerned about are the ones who send their book there first, not knowing what they're getting into. The new writers, searching for a publisher on the Internet, who see the whole "we are a traditional publisher" thing and believe it.

[vstrauss]

PA does seem to watch this board--twice now, problems we've picked up on its message board and mentioned here have gotten addressed.

Maybe we can make it a kind of public service. Right now there's a guy named Ivan who's trying to get the PA "support" people to respond to the several e-mails he's sent over the past month about submitting his screenplay to some producers (I won't link the thread here because they seem to vanish when we do that). C'mon, PA "support", help the guy out!

Gran, I agree with you 100%--multi-published writers can be astonishingly ignorant about the industry, especially those who got their start before publishing began to change so much in the 1980's.

And Jim, don't feel too left out. Just keep telling the truth. Popper will pay attention to you eventually, I guarantee it. He won't be able to help himself.

- Victoria
Writer Beware
www.writerbeware.com/ (http://www.writerbeware.com/)

[marky48]

I believed it to a point. Since PA claimed to do things PODs didn't I thought "what they hell maybe they will?" By the time I called them on it it was too late and they could admit it openly, which they did. Just yesterday someone at writersnet said they looked at the warnings and didn't see what the big deal was? Fed Dungan was a loon of sorts, he's the only one complaining.

Well, I agree with Fred. I disagree with the quasi-defenders and the new mopes who won't see. One said he just signed the contract; his friend the lawyer said it was standard. This fire won't go out as long as the fuel is there and the shyster is in business. Facts are in place, but there are few readers. One thing is clear to me: I work better alone; this experience is why. It's also why I'm a writer, among other things.

[James D Macdonald]

"....his friend the lawyer said it was standard."

His friend the lawyer had never seen a publishing contract in his life.

[marky48]

Actually he was a law student, but he must have been at the D level of performance.

[marky48]

The propaganda defense.

www.mindsightseries.com/d...1068381437 (http://www.mindsightseries.com/discus/messages/6/2789.html?1068381437)

[James D Macdonald]

Gran, I agree with you 100%--multi-published writers can be astonishingly ignorant about the industry, especially those who got their start before publishing began to change so much in the 1980's.

First-time authors today can also be remarkably ill-informed. The ones who wander around saying "My publisher isn't doing any publicity" just aren't seeing it. It's not that it isn't happening.

[vstrauss]

Hey, check it out, folks--Ivan got a response from the always-on-the-ball folks at PA support! (Do you love the excuse or what?)

www.publishamerica.com/cg...n/8156.htm (http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/main/8156.htm)

This is fun!

- Victoria
Writer Beware
www.writerbeware.com/ (http://www.writerbeware.com/)

[CWGranny]

Now can you make them stop claiming to be a traditional publisher? And while you have them in your power -- make them explain why they didn't invite their top sellers to speak at their conference instead of their head cheerleaders. Oh...and have Meiners give himself a hotfoot for that whole mind-controlled union whore comment about you and Ann.

Ah...it was nice to imagine:D
You do seem to be making an impression.

Gran

[marky48]

Must be McAfee and Norton's fault. That's rich. Mine wound up in the same place as those folks' messages did, repeatedly.

[James D Macdonald]

Wow ... I'm replying to page 9 of this thread here.

And here are the financials for the major chains for the third quarter:
<Table border=1>
<TR>

<TD>CHAIN</TD><TD> 2002</TD><TD> 2003</TD><TD> % CHANGE</TD></TR>

<TR><TD>Barnes & Noble</TD><TD> $844.0</TD><TD> $926.2</TD><TD> 9.7%</TD></TR>
<TR><TD>Borders Group</TD><TD> 749.8 </TD><TD>807.9 </TD><TD>7.7</TD></TR>
<TR><TD>Books-A-Million</TD><TD> 96.7 </TD><TD>103.1 </TD><TD>6.6</TD></TR>
<TR><TD>Total</TD><TD> $1,690.5</TD><TD> $1,837.2 </TD><TD> 8.7%</TD></TR>
</TABLE>

That doesn't look like they're in any kind of financial trouble,

[James D Macdonald]

<a href="http://publishersweekly.reviewsnews.com/index.asp?layout=article&articleId=CA325272&display=searchResults&stt=001&text=abandons" target="_new">Also interesting:</a>

<BLOCKQUOTE>
<HR>
B&N Abandons POD, Sells Shop to Lightning Source
by Jim Milliot, PW Daily for Booksellers -- 9/25/2003
BreakingNews




Lightning Source has acquired Barnes & Noble's print-on-demand facility, which the retailer had established in Memphis, Tenn.

Lightning president Kirby Best says the company is integrating B&N's system into its own operation in LaVergne, Tenn. The process includes moving files from B&N to Lightning from publishers that give Lightning their approval.

The acquisition was completed late last month, just before B&N.com announced its intention to stop selling e-books. The two decisions remove B&N from areas that many thought were the future of book publishing and bookselling.
<HR>
</BLOCKQUOTE>

[marky48]

The coupe de grace. When I wrote my paper on the future of publishing in 1999 I didn't know how the new technology would play out. I do now.

[James D Macdonald]

PA's InfoCenter said: It is BN that has some internal educating to do, and at a headquarters level they are aware of this. BN headquarters continues to instruct their store managers that on-demand printing is the wave of the future (hence BN's heavy investments in on-demand printing equipment). (The full letter is quoted back on page 9 here.)

Apparently the guys at BN headquarters didn't get the memo either.

[marky48]

For those who don't want to hit 9:

pub43.ezboard.com/fabsolu...1&stop=180 (http://pub43.ezboard.com/fabsolutewritefrm11.showMessageRange?topicID=190.t opic&start=161&stop=180)

[HapiSofi]

Marky, you still don't know how that technology will work out. No one in publishing knows. At most, we know how it's working out right now. If we're careful and well-informed, we may be able to make some shrewd guesses about the near future. Making long-term predictions about publishing is only for the very brave or the very heedless.

[marky48]

Oh sure, I'm a scientist. I never attempt to go very far into the future, but my thoughts and predictions of three years ago have been revised from the testing process. That's all I meant.

[HapiSofi]

Sure. Works for me.

[CWGranny]

Victoria,

Maybe you could work a little of your magic here:

www.publishamerica.com/cg...n/8362.htm (http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/main/8362.htm)

This poor lady desperately needs someone to help her -- after paying a copyeditor and getting nothing but sarcasm from PA after they screwed up her book -- she ought to, at least, get the copyediting she PAID for fixed.

The folks might not be able to sell many of these things, but they ought to have a copy they can look at fondly instead of being embarrassed at EVERY step of the process.

Gran

[FM St George]

isn't that the best/worst horror story to date that anyone's read?

she's also the victim of having two hundred-odd books backordered for special events and her big "coming out" party that haven't arrived on time, I do believe...

personally, I'm waiting for the thread to be nuked - she's professed her problems publically before and Infocenter's been darned fast in pulling the thread...

or at least removing the offending posts...

like mine.

heh, heh...

[vstrauss]

Wow, this is a terrible story...that poor lady.

This kind of thing seems to be a fairly regular occurrence--though to be fair to PA (I can't believe I just said that), it does seem to get corrected at least some of the time. I doubt they'd replace books they'd already printed, though.

Notice how one person, who posted a perfectly sensible comment about how it's really to the publisher's advantage not to have error-filled books floating around out there, felt she had to jump right back in to say she wasn't being critical of PA? It's sad.

Hey PA. Give Ms. Brent a break, wouldja? Please, fix her book.

FM, I can't believe they haven't banned you yet.

Signed,

The Fantasy Plagiarist

[FM St George]

give them time to get over the turkey fiesta...

just quote me as a newly enlightened spirit and speak kindly of me when you do!

*chuckles*
*falls off soapbox into turkey carcass*
*hops around house while being attacked by cats*

[James D Macdonald]

The thing about not getting the books on time for events seems to be a standard problem.

I suspect it's because PA isn't actually set up to print and deliver books; certainly not in any quantity.

I would guess that when Lightning Source International gets book orders they prioritize them, and PA's priority is pretty darned low.

[James D Macdonald]

A reply to posts deep on page 8 of this thread.

The Happy Authors at PublishAmerica have finally noticed that their books aren't listed with the Library of Congress. See <a href="http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/lounge/1900.htm" target="_new">this thread</a> (and see it quick before the thread is deleted and the authors of the posts locked out).

[HConn]

So, what *does* it mean to be listed in the Library of Congress?

[James D Macdonald]

More important is what it means not to be cataloged in the Library of Congress:

<blockquote>
<hr>
Only U. S. publishers who publish titles that are likely to be widely acquired by U.S. libraries are eligible to participate in the CIP [Cataloging in Publication] program. Book vendors, distributors, printers, production houses and other intermediaries are ineligible. Self-publishers (i.e. authors and editors who pay for or subsidize publication of their own works) and publishers who mainly publish the works of only one or two authors are ineligible. Publishers ineligible for the CIP program may be eligible for the Preassigned Control Number Program.
<hr>

-- http://cip.loc.gov/cip/ecip5.html

</blockquote>

The following are ineligible:

...

Books paid for or subsidized by individual authors.

...

-- http://cip.loc.gov/cip/ecip6.html

<hr>
<blockquote>
Self-published Works

<hR>

The Library of Congress established the CIP program in 1971 to meet the cataloging needs of the nation's libraries. From the outset the program was limited in scope as the amount of resources required to catalog all materials in advance of publication is prohibitive. To ensure that the scope of the CIP program is meeting the needs of the majority of libraries, the Library of Congress surveys the library community from time to time. When asked to appraise the positive impact of expanding the CIP program, the library community ranked video discs, audio discs, multimedia packages, slide sets and other types of publications ahead of self-published works.


-- http://cip.loc.gov/cip/ecipp18.html

</blockquote>
<hr>


So ... does PublishAmerica participate in the PCN [Preassigned Control Number] program?

No. Even though it's a free service. Perhaps part of that is because ....

<blockquote>
Only U.S. book publishers are eligible to participate in the PCN program. These publishers must list a U.S. place of publication on the title page or copyright page of their books and maintain an editorial office in the U.S. capable of answering substantive bibliographic questions.

-- http://pcn.loc.gov/pcn/pcn004.html

</blockquote>


What it works out to is that PublishAmerica is a vanity press. The Library of Congress doesn't catalog vanity publications and the Library of Congress doesn't catalog PublishAmerica titles. You do the math.

[vstrauss]

I'm betting that PA doesn't participate in the PCN program because it would be more work--but mostly because it would involve more expense (publishers have to send a copy of each book to the Library of Congress).

- Victoria

[James D Macdonald]

In total fairness to PublishAmerica, there are eight AmErica House books cataloged by the Library of Congress. They are:

The Port-Wine Sea, A Parody
by Susan Wenger
ISBN: 1893162001
August 1, 1999
Out of print

Two Fast? Having A Second Baby Within Three Years of the First
by Martha White Crise
ISBN: 1893162222
September 5, 2000
Out of print

Command and Control
by Bruce Kendall
ISBN: 1893162176
August 1, 2000
Out of print

The Franciscan
by William Park
ISBN: 1893162621
November 14, 2000

The Alpha Search, came out from PublishAmerica, and is not cataloged by the Library of Congress. The Missing Hair Shirt, the third book in The Franciscan Trilogy, came out from 1stBooks Library and is not cataloged by the Library of Congress.]

The Flathead Saloon and Cathouse
by James Pomerantz
ISBN: 1893162133
April 17, 2000
Out of print

Thinking of Germany at Night: A Personal View of the Years 1927-1956
by Rainulf A. Stelzmann
ISBN: 1588518868
December 2001

The Threat From Within: Denial of Truth
by Timothy Buchanan
ISBN: 1588510522
October 27, 2000

The Boobonic Plague (An American Epidemic)
by Timothy P. Buchanan
ISBN: 1588510867
December 2001



I wonder by what path that scant handful of books came into the Library of Congress's collection.

[James D Macdonald]

I'm betting that PA doesn't participate in the PCN program because it would be more work...

Or because their office isn't able to provide extensive bibliographic information (that would include having someone in the office read the books).

Mostly, though, I suspect it's this:

<HR>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
Control numbers are preassigned to materials which are most likely to be selected and cataloged by the Library of Congress for its own collections. The following are ineligible:

...

Items not intended for wide distribution to libraries.

...


-- http://pcn.loc.gov/pcn/pcn005.html

<HR>
</BLOCKQUOTE>

[HapiSofi]

The Library of Congress isn't stupid. In fact, they're anything but. The last PA title they catalogued was in 2001. I expect a few PA titles got through before the LoC figured out what was happening (or wised up a newbie employee) and put PA on the do-not-catalogue-ever list.

[Minoterrae]

Doesn't the LOC not accept work from real publishers also, if they have fewer than 10 titles? This would keep out legitimate but start-up publishers, wouldn't it?

[HapiSofi]

I'm not aware of such a rule. I do know they don't catalogue works from houses that only publish the works of one or two (or three?) authors, for obvious reasons. Not that either scenario would apply to PA; they've got thousands of titles.

[qatz]

I have just posted an announcement in the "announcements" board that may interest devotees of this thread. In brief, it says "I would like to announce that I am available to accept writer clients from anywhere in the world who feel they have been harmed by the practices of Publish America, AmErica House, Erica House, or any related organization, whether by libel, breach of contract, abusive business practices, or otherwise." There are some details in the announcement and I can provide more. E pluribus unam.

Eric Biggs, Esq.

[James D Macdonald]

qatz: If you really want to find PA authors, put your ad in Writer's Digest.

[dgkgoldberg]

Or port over at the mindsight forum.
Quite a few of them seem to hang out there

[sweetmags2mi]

IF this publisher is doing what you are saying, then they are in breech of contract. It states clearly in the pages of the contract that the Author has sole copyright and if someone is selling your work without paying you? Well, you need to get a lawyer who specializes in copyrights and publishing rights and let him take this company to court.

[James D Macdonald]

Sweetmags, which message were you replying to?

[James D Macdonald]

Although it isn't obvious from the main thread subject line ("49 Copies Only"), this is a PA thread, and contains some good discussion. Check out the posts from the PA sockpuppet!

[James D Macdonald]

A couple of PublishAmerica authors are asking about the high cover prices of their books. (Not that those cover prices are reflected in their royalties -- in traditional book publishing royalties are figured on cover price, not on net.)

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Hey guys, now before I start, I'm not complaining here, but as I go through the PA bookstore, I'm taking a look at some of the prices of novels like mine, and see very high prices, 16.95 to 19.95. Now, I read alot and when I go into a bookstore I find books over 10 bucks expernsive, especially paperpacks under three hundred pages like most of the ones our PA authors have written, heck, even mine is under three hundred pages!

Just wondering if anyone else notices the extremely high prices of PA books, and why?<hr></blockquote>


<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr> ...It just seems like PA charges more than anyone else, It's odd.<hr></blockquote>

<a href="http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/lounge/5543.htm" target="_new">Book Prices...Why Are They So High?</a>


<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Can any of you tell me what you decided on for the price of your books when you were doing a signing in Barnes & Noble? My book is selling at $21.95 but I see a LOT of books selling for $14.95 / $15.95 / and one at $18.00. Remember, Barnes & Noble gets 30 percent off the top so I am wondering what some of you did. Appreciate any input. <hr></blockquote>

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Thanks Allen, and Chris and Cody, for answering my question. My main concern was the price being so high compared to the rest of the books in stock at the store. I was wondering if anyone would buy at the publisher's price. Thanks for your answers. <hr></blockquote>

<a href="http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/lounge/5533.htm" target="_new">Question on Book Signings / PRICE</a>

Well, let's see if I can answer that:

The book prices are so high because the vanity press fee is attached to the cover price of each book, to the tune of about five bucks a copy. Sell 100 copies, pay a $500 vanity press fee.

That's the PublishAmerica business plan.

[James D Macdonald]

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Trade paperbacks are made of better quality matrerial than the mass market books. The paper is better, the printing is cleaner, the cover's color is better, and the feel of the book is more solid. This costs more to make.

It is like comparing a 50 page newpaper for a quarter to a copy of Hot VW's and Dune Buggys. They are apples and oranges.

To me, the trade is a compromise between the mass market and the hard cover.

My book is just over 100 pages and is 16.95. At each book signing, I get one person that says, "That's high for a book that I can read in an a few hours." When you remind them that a good CD costs 20 bucks and you can listen to them in 20 minutes, they usually get the picture. <hr></blockquote>

<a href="http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/lounge/5543.htm" target="_new">More from Book Prices...Why Are They So High?</a>

Actually, no.

"Trade" doesn't refer to trim size, weight of paper, or other physical specifications. It refers to how the books are handled if they don't sell.

Trade paperbacks are whole-copy returnable, as are hardcovers, unlike mass-market paperbacks which are strippable.

There exist "rack-size trade paperbacks" which are the same size as your standard mass-market book. The only difference is that the rack-size trade PB is whole-copy returnable.

So we've taken care of that misconception.

The next point is that it's PA that's comparing apples to oranges -- PA's 6x9 "trade" paperbacks are average around five dollars a copy more than other publishers' trade paperbacks. For example, I have here a copy of <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0786886323/ref=nosim/madhousemanor/" target="_new">Carter Beats the Devil</a> by Glen David Gold, published by Hyperion. (Incidentally, Mr. Gold is a first-time novelist). Carter is a trade paperback, 6x9 trim size, 483 pages, and has a cover price of $14.95. The book came out in 2001 and is still on bookstore shelves everywhere.

The price differential is even worse when you compare PA's books with mass-market books, but no one's doing that. Some PublishAmerica paperback books are more expensive than other publishers' hardcovers.

Now look at the PA author who wonders:

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>My book's 419 pages and I'm a little nervous about what the price will be.<hr></blockquote>

Don't compare PA books to CDs -- compare them to similar books in the same bookstore.

[XThe NavigatorX]

Well, based on PA's other books on Amazon, a 420 pager should run either 24.95 or 29.95 (they're not all that consisent).

They have one book from '01 that's 992 pages and costs $54.95

[James D Macdonald]

The forthcoming 419 page PA novel is called Threads In Time. When it comes out we'll see if it costs twice as much as a longer novel from a traditional press.

[James D Macdonald]

<a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1413722954/ref-nosim/madhousemanor/" target="_new">Threads in Time</a> is out now and, sure-enough, it clocks in at $24.95.

To what should be no one's surprise, it hasn't sold any copies at Amazon or at Barnes & Noble (where it's listed as being published by "America House Book Publishers").

[maestrowork]

Let's face it, I will not pay $25 for a paperback of an unknown author.

[James D Macdonald]

Lots of folks won't pay $25 for a hardcover by an author they know and like.

[Whachawant]

Well, based on PA's other books on Amazon, a 420 pager should run either 24.95 or 29.95 (they're not all that consistent). They have one book from '01 that's 992 pages and costs $54.95
:money :money :money :money :money :money :money :money
The only time I pay that much for a book is if its for a reference manual.... and guaranteed its not from P.A.

[DeePower]

I was looking at the PublishAmerica settlement agreement (for reversion of rights back to the author). Does section number 2 mean that PA can't demand payment for 49 copies (or any number for that matter)?

2. Transfer of Publication Rights and Release of Publication Obligations.

In consideration of the agreements and covenants contained herein, the Publishing Contract is deemed terminated and of no further force or effect.

Dee
www.BrianHillAndDeePower.com (http://www.BrianHillAndDeePower.com)

[James D Macdonald]

Ask your lawyer.

[DeePower]

Our attorney has revised the PA termination agreement and sent it back to PA. The revision makes it clear what happens to any "inventory."

I asked because a question came up on a private discussion forum.


Dee

[DeePower]

Hot off the email:
Original Message --------

Subject: &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp The Force of Ten Thousand
Date: &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Thu, 18 Nov 2004 14:52:28 -0500
From: &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp PublishAmerica Author Support Team <support@publishamerica.com>
Reply-To: &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp <support@publishamerica.com>

Dear author,

Again, there is healthy growth news to share with you. Together with your peers at PublishAmerica, you now form a force of more than ten thousand writers! Last month, our 10,000th author signed a book contract with PublishAmerica.

The basis of this continued success story is authors such as yourself. It is your enthusiasm, your creativity, your glow, and your energy that spawn the drive in others to want to be like you. It is the thousands of newspaper interviews and book reviews, the hundreds of thousands of words of mouth that your books have sparked. You have enabled us to send out more than one million book announcements to people of all walks of life, and each day we are selling thousands of books. That is the incredible PublishAmerica story that you and your fellow PA authors have brought forth.

Needless to say, such numbers affect the size of our staff enormously. We have gone through enormous growth in the past year, to the point where we needed to relocate to a considerably larger facility. Currently we are finalizing the moving of our entire staff into a big and beautiful four-story historical building in the heart of our hometown, where we have more than double the office space that we had. You may expect to see photos of our new environment on our website soon!

Reason to celebrate? We think so, and therefore we are discounting all of our titles for ten thousand school libraries around the country. And as always, when we offer such special deals to vendors or libraries, we want to include our own authors as well.

It is good to remind you that one of the other reasons of PublishAmerica's success is that no author is under any obligation, pressure or requirement to ever purchase their own books, at any time, in any way. We are a traditional publisher. We don't want our authors' money, we want their books. Therefore, authors who do wish to obtain copies of their own book, do so because they choose to.

So, to those of you who fall in that category, with the upcoming holiday season in mind, we offer the following special deal:

authors who need
between 25-50 books: 40 pct discount
between 51-100 books: 45 pct discount
between 101-200 books: 50 pct discount
201 or more books: 55 pct discount

This offer expires November 30, full-color books are excluded. Orders by phone only, at 301-695-1707.

Thank you, and have a happy Thanksgiving.

[James D Macdonald]

It is good to remind you that one of the other reasons of PublishAmerica's success is that no author is under any obligation, pressure or requirement to ever purchase their own books, at any time, in any way. We are a traditional publisher. We don't want our authors' money, we want their books. Therefore, authors who do wish to obtain copies of their own book, do so because they choose to.

That's like Honest Al's Used Car Emporium (Bad credit? No credit? No problem!) claiming in an ad that "no one is under any obligation, pressure or requirement to ever purchase a car, at any time, in any way.Therefore, people who do wish to obtain a car, do so because they choose to." Any doubt that that would still count as an advertisement, if (for example) someone wanted question whether false advertising was involved.

What a load of disingenuous bull-pucky! Under no pressure, they say, in the middle of a high-pressure pitch to buy your own books.

Hurry, hurry, hurry! Operators are standing by! Offer expires soon!

We were expecting a pitch to buy your own books after the New York Times Ad pitch ran its course (no one was going to buy a bunch of books in November to get into the December ad because there isn't going to be one), and here it is.

Predictable, like clockwork, PA tries to sell its books to their own authors.

Ask yourself this: Why would a "traditional publisher" spend all this time and trouble advertising their books to their own authors? None of the traditional publishers I've dealt with have ever done anything like this.

If you don't want the authors' money, PA, why are you sending advertising to them to induce them to give you cash? Why aren't you out selling books? It's the Christmas Season, for Pete's sake! What's the matter with you?

(Oh, and I'd be really interested in hearing if any school libraries, anywhere, buy any of your books based on your efforts -- rather than your individual authors' efforts.)

Did you try sending letters to all the schools in America, telling them about this offer?

No, I didn't think so.

Friggin' 40% off. That's the minimum a library woud expect from any publisher, any day of the week, any month of the year. What sort of special deal is that? And is November a big month for school book-buying? Get real.

[Risseybug]

That letter smacked of effort. They work so hard to tell their authors how happy, how wonderful, how much they are loved. Shouldn't they be putting that effort into selling books instead of propaganda to tell their authors how happy they are?


Someone said it, and it bears repeating. If you go to a publishers webpage, and the home page is not dedicated to selling books (with 'Submission Guidelines' in small print somewhere) then RUN AWAY! If all they're selling is the author, not the public, they are in no way a traditional publisher!

Jim - we could get 140 people to donate $5, that might be more do-able at this time of year. $10 is a lot to someone like me. Heck, $10 barely fills my gas tank to half anymore.

[James D Macdonald]

The PA website's meta tags?

They've changed 'em.

Used to be:

"description" content="PublishAmerica, Inc., a traditional publisher, accepting and publishing manuscripts and books at NO CHARGE to the author. Royalties paid to writers, books sold in stores. Manuscript submissions by mail and online"

"keywords" content="writers, publishers, agents, literary agents, authors, author, writer, publisher, publishing, writing, xlibris, publishing house, publishing company, publishing companies, royalties, print?on?demand, print on demand, print?on?demand publishing, print on demand publishing, PublishAmerica, Publish America, publishamerica, publish america, AmErica House, america house, America House, publish America, print, printing, book, books, book publishing, publishing service, self-publish, self-publishing, iUniverse, iuniverse, xlibris, self publishing, free publishing, cheap publishing, manuscript, manuscript submission, royalty publisher, royalty publishing, ebooks, on-demand publishing, small press, online publishing, publishing online, book publisher, book publishers, book printing, publishing resource, writer resource, author resource, writers community, authors community, publishing professional, traditional publisher, traditional publishing, writing talent, creative talent, unpublished author, un-published author, unpublished writer, un-published writer, publishing contract"

(Thank you, Wayback Machine (http://www.archive.org/web/web.php)!)

Well, those tags now read:

"description" content="Book Publishers - Book Publishing or Publish a Novel at Publish America Today."

"keywords" content="book publishers,book publishing,publish a novel,publisher"



-----------------------

I do believe that's our work, here, bringing their misleading tags to the attention of the authorities that caused 'em to make the change.

[DaveKuzminski]

Because some features are locking up or otherwise not operating properly, it may be time to let the longest topics sink while we switch to another for maintaining the information flow on subjects that need to be kept in the public eye.

[maestrowork]

This is from smallpress.typepad.com:


Xlibris has paid out $1 million in royalties to some 9,000 authors since the company was founded in 1997. (About $111 each.)
--Publishers Weekly, March 17, 2003.

I wonder what PA's figures are.

[DaveKuzminski]

Maybe they'll match Xlibris by giving all their authors $111.00? Of course, the authors will have to figure out how to divide all of that among themselves. ;)

[CaoPaux]

*pinging for search engine*

49 copies from PA

Publish America Publishamerica forced to buy 49 copies

[James D. Macdonald]

Let's not forget popper20 and publishamerica sockpuppets. Who is ani-michelle, anyway?

UPDATE search terms

HapiSofi

[HapiSofi]

Let's not forget popper20 and publishamerica sockpuppets. Who is ani-michelle, anyway?Ani-Michelle (http://wonderfulangelsacademy.com/aboutmichelle.htm) is a PA author (http://wonderfulangelsacademy.com/press.htm) -- but you knew that already. Are the links here new to you?

[James D. Macdonald]

No, the links aren't new to me.

But I was hoping Popper20 would answer.

[reph]

Bumping the thread up again.