Questions on Manga writers.

Dancre · May 9, 2007

Ok, I love Mangas. Yes, I'm an adult who loves mangas. It's my weird passion. But I have a question. I've been lurking at other manga boards and it seems the writers have little interest in learning the craft of writing. In fact, writers are kinda seen as the lower life form. So what's up with that? In fact, on one board someone asked about learning the craft of writing and I suggested she come here to AW and sit at Uncle Jim's feet. She was very excited, but it yet no one else seemed to care. When the topic of writing comes up, most of the manga folks gloss over the craft as if it's a nuisance. Yet I've read some of the amature Mangas on people's websites and they are horribly written. Can someone please explain why some Manga writers refuse to study the art of writing, even the basics???

kim

TsukiRyoko · May 9, 2007

Ok, I love Mangas. Yes, I'm an adult who loves mangas. It's my weird passion.

I lurve you.

I don't know why more writers aren't interested in manga. But, I can understand why more of them aren't into learning the craft. Manga and comic books are mostly graphics and dialogue. A writer's craft is his/her words, not his/her art. Still, that doesn't stop them from reading it.... *grumble*

I've tried many times to compose a manga, and while the storyline is easy enough for me, I'm just not steady-handed enough to actually draw it myself. I've collaborated with friends on a few amateur mangas, but it didn't work out that well (at least, not in my experience. I know manga mangas who has both a writer and an illustrator, and it seemed to work out splendidly). I guess you gotta stick with what you're good at.

Dancre · May 9, 2007

Yeah, maybe, but what I mean is how to advance a story line, create interesting characters, create interesting dialogue, know how to make the reader turn the page you know, the basics, just the basics, ma'am. LOL!!! And I love you too!! LOL!!!

kim

Snitchcat · May 10, 2007

IMO, learning about storytelling depends on exactly who the manga artist / writer is.

The pros Do care about developing the story line, creating interesting characters, etc. If you take a look at the popular manga, most of them have a plot, great characters, development and turn-the-page action, etc.

From what I can see, many of the English-language manga forums are set up by amateurs for amateurs, who mayn't have any interest in developing the basics of storytelling with a view to going pro. Nothing wrong with that. I just can't see how those amateur forums that want their members to go pro can advance to such in the craft without more input from those further along the road. (I've given up going to these forums, so if my impression of them is wrong, please let me know.)

I liken this to an unpublished, amateur writer setting up a forum for other unpublished amateur writers, with a view to going pro, but without the pro input. It's doable, but it's not exactly the best way to go about it.

From my own study and experience of pro manga, the craft is, in fact, very similar to that of going pro with the writing. The focus, however, is on using images to present the story. Dialogue helps out.

Conceivably, you could take a well-crafted manga and almost use it as a film storyboard.

But, each to their own.

You know... I don't think I answered the original post. Um... I shall try again in a bit. Brain has just walked off with the mind and... something. Excuse me. Must go hunt them down. Again.

wordmonkey · May 10, 2007

You might find this of some use...

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53425

Dancre · May 10, 2007

Snitchcat said:
IMO, learning about storytelling depends on exactly who the manga artist / writer is.

The pros Do care about developing the story line, creating interesting characters, etc. If you take a look at the popular manga, most of them have a plot, great characters, development and turn-the-page action, etc.

From what I can see, many of the English-language manga forums are set up by amateurs for amateurs, who mayn't have any interest in developing the basics of storytelling with a view to going pro. Nothing wrong with that. I just can't see how those amateur forums that want their members to go pro can advance to such in the craft without more input from those further along the road. (I've given up going to these forums, so if my impression of them is wrong, please let me know.)

I liken this to an unpublished, amateur writer setting up a forum for other unpublished amateur writers, with a view to going pro, but without the pro input. It's doable, but it's not exactly the best way to go about it.

From my own study and experience of pro manga, the craft is, in fact, very similar to that of going pro with the writing. The focus, however, is on using images to present the story. Dialogue helps out.

Conceivably, you could take a well-crafted manga and almost use it as a film storyboard.

But, each to their own.

You know... I don't think I answered the original post. Um... I shall try again in a bit. Brain has just walked off with the mind and... something. Excuse me. Must go hunt them down. Again.

No, you did answer the post. And I think you're right. It's a shame, though. You can't go pro unless you work for it. Very sad.

I've had to work my little white butt off just to learn the basics. But it's paying off!!

kim

Dancre · May 10, 2007

wordmonkey said:
You might find this of some use...

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53425

thanks!!!

Turtle07 · May 10, 2007

Can someone please explain why some Manga writers refuse to study the art of writing, even the basics???

Cuz they're amateurs. Real manga writers who are actually published do know how to write. I've been to manga tutorial sites made by people (well, some aren't published and some are, but they are very good.) and they have lessons on their sites teaching manga learners how to write. The people u probably meet aren't serious about it if they don't want to learn writing. Writing and manga aren't that different, excpet manga consists of pictures with words, but still, no matter what, it's STILL writing.

Dancre · May 11, 2007

Do you have those websites? I'm interested in writing a manga and I need to see how it's done. Thanks!!!

Sai · May 12, 2007

I've never encountered the attitude you described, Dancre. In my experiance most people interested in creating manga value the story and the art.

A good place to learn about writing manga would be the Tokyopop message boards (www.tokyopop.com). There's tons of fans and professional creators online there, so you can read what they have to say about writing manga.

Turtle07 · May 12, 2007

Do you have those websites? I'm interested in writing a manga and I need to see how it's done. Thanks!!!

I haven't been on those sites in a while since I found AW and started to draw less.

I probably won't be able to list all I went to, (And there were some very good ones, darn it, I should have written them down. But I had been browsing and just happened upon them. :poke:

) but I'll do what I can.

http://www.mangatutorials.com/

They changed the section on story-writing since I was last there. I think they shortened it.

But they did add more on manga-making and character-making. :Clap:

http://www.mangathrash.com/

Has some links to sites with writing tutorials. Just click on Artist Resource Center below on the left hand side.

http://www.kabukiyasha.net/index.php

It has tutorials for story-making. I looked at it, pretty good!

Have fun learning!

Dancre · May 12, 2007

Thanks, Turtle!! I did some investigating myself and decided to google manga scripts to see how they are done and well, I found lots of manga scripts out there.

http://www.ear-tweak.com/iy_manga/v34/329/329_script.htm

It seems to write a manga script means to write a regular script. Soooo I thnk I'll slip on over to SYW and start hanging out there for a while. Thanks so much, turtle. you've really put me on the right track!!! Maybe I'll write a book on writing a manga? mmm . . .

kim

jedimaster107 · May 12, 2007

I love reading mangas and think they're better then most comics out there right now. i have an idea for a manga serise. but every time i see something about writing mangas, i always see submissions for drawing and writing. Never just the script part. And when i do a search for just writing mangas, i just find how to draw.

The question i have is: I don't know how to draw and i don't know anyone who could draw. What does a person like me do in this succuation?

Dancre · May 12, 2007

wordmonkey said:
You might find this of some use...

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53425

Whew!! I finally, finally, finally got through all 6 pages. So writing a manga is the same as writing a superman comic. Ok, now it's starting to come together. Study how to write superman and you can write Ninja manga. Got it. It seems to follow the same basic writing rules as novel writing. Basic that is. But my first love will always be novel writing. sigh . . . Thanks, Wordmonkey. Now I need to get the formating down. It seems like when I finally got writing all together, boom!! There's something new to study.

kim

Dancre · May 12, 2007

jedimaster107 said:
I love reading mangas and think they're better then most comics out there right now. i have an idea for a manga serise. but every time i see something about writing mangas, i always see submissions for drawing and writing. Never just the script part. And when i do a search for just writing mangas, i just find how to draw.

The question i have is: I don't know how to draw and i don't know anyone who could draw. What does a person like me do in this succuation?

Well, you can do what I'm going to do. Start by writing the craft of comic/manga writing. Learn how to write a great script and all the techniques involved in the process. I suggest posting your script under the script section. Or perhaps the mods would allow us to post our scripts here under the comic section since there isn't a section for comic/manga writers to share their work. Someone said in the thread that wordmonkey posted that if the script is good enough, someone will want to do the art work. So follow Ms Snark's words: "Write well."

Here's some links I have found on writing comics/mangas. (I'm assuming writing a manga is the same as writing a comic.)
http://www.joeedkin.com/ THis is how to write the comic/manga. Joe also says to learn the basics of writing. So I also suggest going through Uncle Jim's thread. Also go through the SYW threads and see corrections writers make to others' stories. Also here's a whole bunch of articles on writing mangas/comics: http://www.members.shaw.ca/creatingcomics/writers.html I also suggest looking up writing comics instead of mangas. here's one more: http://www.whiterose.org/dr.elmo/cwrite/writing.html, and http://www.geocities.com/Athens/2898/real.html

In fact, Wordmonkey, PeeDee, if you two could, how about starting a Writing with Uncle Wordmonkey and PeeDee thread for those of us who want to learn to write mangas/comics?? Please??? THere's so much to learn and sooo many questions. Unless of course, time restraints will stop you. Understandable.

How about if I start now? Uncle Word and PeeDee, do you 'show' as opposed to 'tell' in the manga/comic as in novels? How important is 'show' to the manga/comic? Also, why do the artists/writers use close ups of the MCs? Is this to emphasize something?

kim

Turtle07 · May 12, 2007

Ur welcome Dancre. Me and friend, excuse me, a friend and I attempted to write a manga. We knew how to write it, it was the drawing part that gave us trouble. While she's superb at drawing (I'm somewhat between a bad amatuer and ok-beginner), she and I couldn't do detailed drawings with all the scenery and stuff and we had trouble sticking to the plot cuz it never seemed right and we changed it multiple times. So I wish u the best of luck! It takes tons of patience to do a manga.

Sai · May 13, 2007

jedimaster107 said:
The question i have is: I don't know how to draw and i don't know anyone who could draw. What does a person like me do in this succuation?

Well, there's this thing called the internet where you can meet people from all over the world

. You don't need to know an artist in real life in order to work together. Pratically all of my collaborations have been done with people hundreds of miles away.

When I'm lloking for an artist, there's two things I do: 1. Look for 'writer wanted posts' at plaes like http://www.digitalwebbing.com/talent/writers.html or the online comics forums, http://www.onlinecomics.net/pages/forums/. If I don't find anyone I like, I make an 'artist wanted' post. It's hard often to get a good artist, because they are in such high demand they can pretty much pick and choose what projects they want to do.

Even if you don't have an artist, keep writing! I have tons of undrawn scripts just sitting on my hard drive. Maybe they'll get published someday, maybe not, but it's good practice and also good samples to show to interested artists.

Dancre (or can I call you Kim?), I'd like a place to post comic scripts too. I was thinking of just putting them in the scriptwriting forum, but I want to make sure people would read it (and I can't blame them, comic scripts are hard to read since you constantly have to visualize everything).

How about if I start now? Uncle Word and PeeDee, do you 'show' as opposed to 'tell' in the manga/comic as in novels? How important is 'show' to the manga/comic?

I'm not either of thsoe people, but I'd like to try and answer your questions anyway. Showing is very important. After all, comics are a visual medium.

An example of 'telling' in comics would be from old super-hero comics, i.e. a panel of Superman jumping through a window, with a caption box stating "And then Superman jumped through the window" and a speech bubble where Superman says "I'm jumping out a window." All you need to do is state things once, visually. That's not to say words are bad, but the words should express something that can't be stated in pictures (my favorite example of these is EC horror comics from the 50's. If you just flipped through an issue you might think "Wow, there's a lot of text! The panels are half filled with words! " but if you read them you would see how well the words and pictures work to tell a story and create atmosphere).

I love comics as a medium because for all the BAM! POW! BOOM! associated with it, it can be a very subtle medium, showing things in pictures without every calling attention to them with words.

Dancre · May 13, 2007

Sai said:
Well, there's this thing called the internet where you can meet people from all over the world . You don't need to know an artist in real life in order to work together. Pratically all of my collaborations have been done with people hundreds of miles away.

When I'm lloking for an artist, there's two things I do: 1. Look for 'writer wanted posts' at plaes like http://www.digitalwebbing.com/talent/writers.html or the online comics forums, http://www.onlinecomics.net/pages/forums/. If I don't find anyone I like, I make an 'artist wanted' post. It's hard often to get a good artist, because they are in such high demand they can pretty much pick and choose what projects they want to do.

Even if you don't have an artist, keep writing! I have tons of undrawn scripts just sitting on my hard drive. Maybe they'll get published someday, maybe not, but it's good practice and also good samples to show to interested artists.

Amen!!!!

Dancre (or can I call you Kim?), You can call me whatever you want, just don't call me late for dinner!!! LOL!!!!

I'd like a place to post comic scripts too. I was thinking of just putting them in the scriptwriting forum, but I want to make sure people would read it (and I can't blame them, comic scripts are hard to read since you constantly have to visualize everything).

I just PMed MacAllister and asked her for our own special place on SYW. I suggest PMing her and letting her know we need our own place to play.

I'm not either of thsoe people, but I'd like to try and answer your questions anyway. Showing is very important. After all, comics are a visual medium.

An example of 'telling' in comics would be from old super-hero comics, i.e. a panel of Superman jumping through a window, with a caption box stating "And then Superman jumped through the window" and a speech bubble where Superman says "I'm jumping out a window." All you need to do is state things once, visually. That's not to say words are bad, but the words should express something that can't be stated in pictures (ding, ding, ding!!) (my favorite example of these is EC horror comics from the 50's. If you just flipped through an issue you might think "Wow, there's a lot of text! The panels are half filled with words! " but if you read them you would see how well the words and pictures work to tell a story and create atmosphere).

I love comics as a medium because for all the BAM! POW! BOOM! associated with it, it can be a very subtle medium, showing things in pictures without every calling attention to them with words.

Cool!! Would this be telling: I read a girl's amatured manga on another website. The girl had a dream about a boy, woke up and picked up a picture sitting next to the bed. Mom knocked on the door. Panel 1: girl is again laying in bed with a note at the bottom of the panel saying 'pretending'.

So showing would be: panel 1: girl lies back down, panel 2: pulls covers over herself. panel 3: closes eyes and opens mouth. Panel 4: mom comes in and wakes her up. Yes??

I was thinking about all of this today and it seems easier to understand writing the manga now b/c I know how to write a novel. It seems you bring the same basic techniques over from the novel to the manga. Am I right?? And a writer would use the same techniques used to write a comic to write a manga, yes?? The techniques are interchangable. Yes??

Thank you so very much!!!

kim

jedimaster107 · May 13, 2007

Thanks everyone!

SilverVistani · May 16, 2007

Er... I'm an artist. ^_^()

First off: Feh... what's wrong with being an adult that likes manga? I know many who do.

Secondly: I've never been entirely certain about the idea of writing my own manga. Part of my problem is that I'm constantly tossing between wanting to write the same plots as a novel and then suddenly wanting to draw it out as a manga and then wanting to write it again. It's craziness in my brain! ^_^()

I noted that many of you had commented on needing someone to do the drawing. This intrigues me a bit and, if I had more confidence in myself so far as time constraints and motivation, I'd offer to make the attempt at working with one/some of you. Currently, I have plans to draw a comic/manga written by a good friend of mine, (plot was come up between the two of us and we decided to split it that way) but she's yet to get me any of the script yet.

Hmmm... tell you what... I generally motivate better if I've got someone else expecting something from me. So here goes...

I have a deviantart account. silvervistani.deviantart.com If any of you would like (no pressure, either way is fine with me, I'm just plugging here) feel free to browse around and let me know what you think. I've still got a way to go, but I've improved greatly over the past couple years in leaps and bounds. (at least, that's what people keep telling me, and I definitely see a difference between my current and older works.

Umm... yeah. So that's what I have to say/offer to those of you writing manga. ^_^() *runs away, mildly embarrassed*

~Kitty :e2cat:

wordmonkey · May 17, 2007

Dancre said:
In fact, Wordmonkey, PeeDee, if you two could, how about starting a Writing with Uncle Wordmonkey and PeeDee thread for those of us who want to learn to write mangas/comics?? Please??? THere's so much to learn and sooo many questions. Unless of course, time restraints will stop you. Understandable.

I can't speak for m' colleague, but I don't have a problem with this. Though I should say (with appropriate blushing) I haven't looked at the Uncle Jim thread, so I'm not sure what I'm agreeing to.

Lemme look and get back to you.

wordmonkey · May 17, 2007

jedimaster107 said:
The question i have is: I don't know how to draw and i don't know anyone who could draw. What does a person like me do in this succuation?

Well, all you need to learn is one face and that covers all manga faces, right?

BWAH HA HA HA HAR!

I kid.

Look on deviant and you'll find artist out the whazoo. All the same issues apply for landing one, but it's do-able

SilverVistani · May 17, 2007

Deviant Art is definitely a good place to look. I've got an account there (as mentioned in my last post).

http://silvervistani.deviantart.com

Dancre · May 18, 2007

Wow, Silver, nice pictures!! very good.

kim

SilverVistani · May 18, 2007

Dancre said:
Wow, Silver, nice pictures!! very good.

^_^() Danke, danke... Thank you very much.

I actually did some work this past semester that was pages from a comic idea I'd come up with. I hope to get those in my gallery soon. I just can't decide whether I want to put all of them up, because they span the entirety of the story, and if I ever do get around to filling in the rest, the later pages would serve as spoilers. ><* I'm so neurotic that I worry over this sort of thing to the point where I haven't put any of it up yet.

Questions on Manga writers.

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